METRORail Green Line

[IHB2]

No doubt you could construct a truth table to establish the validity of what you've said here, and I'm no logician and couldn't hope to dispute it; but I'm confused about the composition of the "many" -- travelers -- whose interests are held captive. Why privilege travelers over other "manys"? Such as the set of property owners: is it not in the collective best interests of that many, so defined, for governments to struggle to exercise their power of eminent domain?

It may be obvious that my concern for the many is provisional. It goes to the core of my few convictions that what is worth preserving is generally not in the hands of the many.

Niche tends to argue from the macro perspective, discounting any of the individual micros that make up the whole as expendable, as though "the Houston economy" had any meaning beyond the collection of the 10s of 1000s of individual economic actors from 1 person operations to the biggest chemical plants.

[TheNiche]

No doubt you could construct a truth table to establish the validity of what you've said here, and I'm no logician and couldn't hope to dispute it; but I'm confused about the composition of the "many" -- travelers -- whose interests are held captive. Why privilege travelers over other "manys"? Such as the set of property owners: is it not in the collective best interests of that many, so defined, for governments to struggle to exercise their power of eminent domain?

It may be obvious that my concern for the many is provisional. It goes to the core of my few convictions that what is worth preserving is generally not in the hands of the many.

In the example, let's say that the universe of property owners exist within Texas. The two most materially impacted subsets of property owners exist in Hempstead and Chapel Hill. The capitalized value of retail sales that are attributable to travelers and to locals whom make a living by selling goods and services to travelers is what supports some amount of the property value of Hempstead. If travelers begin to patronize Chapel Hill as an alternative, then the property values in Chapel Hill rise even if they fall in Hempstead. One community's loss is another's gain. If you're a member of the Hempstead community, then you're going to feel screwed. And I understand why you should feel screwed; that's why I don't have very much of a problem (in theory) with reparations being granted under those circumstances. The government should un-screw Hempstead for having made Chapel Hill prosperous instead. And in fact, if a mechanism can be devised whereby a portion of Chapel Hill's newly found prosperity can be zeroed-in on and captured to pay for un-screwing Hempstead, that's also fine by me. All the better.

The scenario presented is an entirely distributive situation. There are 'x' number of dollars to spend in community 'alpha' or 'beta', neither of which is inhabited by a superior or more deserving race of people. They're all just human (and they all exist either within the universe of property owners or as patrons of property owners). They are on equal footing. So all that's left is that travelers should not be made inconvenienced whenever practical; what is at stake is their time, which is valuable. And after all, there are vastly more travelers that transit those communities each day than there are people that subsist from travelers that also live in those communities.

If you've got any philosophical leg to stand on, it is the notion grounded in Romanticism that local tradition should be upheld for its own sake and enforced by government intervention and at the point of a sword. The United States may as well demand that Russia shut off its gas wells in order to effect the United States' preferred climate at the expense of the warming of Siberia and Russian economic development; Catholic fundamentalists may as well demand the abolition of birth control devices and abortion. Southampton and Boulevard Oaks may as well prevent the widening of a major thoroughfare and then complain when traffic becomes a concern, and then get what they want both times even though they're smack dab in the middle of the urban core of the nation's fourth largest city and fifth largest metropolitan area. And the worst of it is that traditions at any scale are understood superficially by those speaking in the role of the third-person and typically invented by those speaking in the first-person, just as Hitler invented the Aryan race.

Luciaphile, I reject romanticism in favor of humanism. That's my MO. Granted, it's a lot easier to say that than to contribute to the administration of my preferences. I never claimed to be an effective advocate of my beliefs, some kind of social engineer. I shall only state them and hope that others might prevail upon my reasoning to win small humanistic victories, even if I should never know of them.

Edited September 2, 2012 by TheNiche

[TheNiche]

Niche tends to argue from the macro perspective, discounting any of the individual micros that make up the whole as expendable, as though "the Houston economy" had any meaning beyond the collection of the 10s of 1000s of individual economic actors from 1 person operations to the biggest chemical plants.

On the contrary.

Consider this. I do not care for labor unions or labor laws. If you don't like your job, then you should do something else. If it's a company town, then move elsewhere. The company will either get the picture or you will remove yourself from them. I believe that the individual should take accountability for their own happiness and not fall into the trap of believing that such a thing can be assured by a union rep or a bureaucrat. The individual has free will and property rights (which should be protected because that is the purpose of government). They are not a slave. If they live like one, it is nobody's fault but their own.

And if the best thing that one can accomplish on their own isn't to their liking, then that's why we have psychiatrists, anti-depressants, and Ayn Rand novels. And we should legalize assisted suicide, because that is the ultimate expression of individualism.

Edited September 2, 2012 by TheNiche

[IHB2]

The government should un-screw Hempstead for having made Chapel Hill prosperous instead. And in fact, if a mechanism can be devised whereby a portion of Chapel Hill's newly found prosperity can be zeroed-in on and captured to pay for un-screwing Hempstead, that's also fine by me. All the better.

At the risk of offending the "you didn't build that" English grammar illiterates, "the government" is what made Hempstead prosperous in the 1st place no matter how far back in Anglo Texas history you want to go. Regional winners and losers were chosen from the beginning whether it was the granting of land or RR ROW, choosing the county seat, the building of roads there instead of somewhere else b/c previous choices had made a town a regional commercial center, etc.

Niche your universe, like mine, is "turtles all the way down" and it is pointless to consider "reparations" for some artificial construct like "Hempstead" or "the African American population."

What we are left with is defending our own micro spaces in an attempt to protect our unalienable right to property - ich bin ein NIMBY.

and that's why, to return to topic, affected Houstonians should fight METRO for everything it wants to do until those Houstonians get the maximum amount of justice possible from a government agency acting to disrupt their lives.

[TheNiche]

At the risk of offending the "you didn't build that" English grammar illiterates, "the government" is what made Hempstead prosperous in the 1st place no matter how far back in Anglo Texas history you want to go. Regional winners and losers were chosen from the beginning whether it was the granting of land or RR ROW, choosing the county seat, the building of roads there instead of somewhere else b/c previous choices had made a town a regional commercial center, etc.

Niche your universe, like mine, is "turtles all the way down" and it is pointless to consider "reparations" for some artificial construct like "Hempstead" or "the African American population."

What we are left with is defending our own micro spaces in an attempt to protect our unalienable right to property - ich bin ein NIMBY.

and that's why, to return to topic, affected Houstonians should fight METRO for everything it wants to do until those Houstonians get the maximum amount of justice possible from a government agency acting to disrupt their lives.

I hear what you're saying, however I have no interest in quantifying and subtracting out government benefits that had been allocated so many generations ago that nobody living today can personally remember them. At some point there has to be a cutoff, where the status quo can be defined and beyond which government damages can be defined and accounted for.

As for METRO, of course individuals should fight for their due. I don't deny them that. It's just that the system that ascribes what they're due should not be hijacked by special interests. It should be a cold and calculated manner that can be applied in many circumstances and that will not be changed on account of superficial differences or politically-sensitive individuals or populations. That's how justice is achieved that is equal and inclusive. It must be blind.

[luciaphile]

Niche tends to argue from the macro perspective, discounting any of the individual micros that make up the whole as expendable, as though "the Houston economy" had any meaning beyond the collection of the 10s of 1000s of individual economic actors from 1 person operations to the biggest chemical plants.

I was actually hoping The Niche would go all macro on me, but he obstinately stuck to small ball instead. I have now been convinced that from the point of view of the government in whose gift is a four-lane road with a divided median and a Bucee's, or whatever -- it makes no difference who gets the Bucee's and whether that road goes through one town or the other. I'm not sure I would have necessarily thought it did and it is not precisely what I was wondering about, but it is good to have empirical proof of it nonetheless. I assume it was also his backhanded way of telling me my question made no sense. And also of the Law of Conservation of The Niche and luciaphile, that whatever he regards with sanguine approval, I will probably consider a disaster. Still, his posts are engaging, if not directly engaging, and I am now invested enough in the pretend scenario to hope that the Bucee's will cause the tax-o-meter in the pretend town to spin backward and that the people there will be rewarded with tax rebates in the form of beaver nuggets, and that they wil share their bounty with the other town, the one that was spared not awarded the Bucee's.

[luciaphile]

If you've got any philosophical leg to stand on, it is the notion grounded in Romanticism that local tradition should be upheld for its own sake and enforced by government intervention and at the point of a sword... And the worst of it is that traditions at any scale are understood superficially by those speaking in the role of the third-person and typically invented by those speaking in the first-person, just as Hitler invented the Aryan race.

I think It is important to distinguish between Romanticism as an artistic movement, rather lovely, and as the precursor of a political movement, rotten from the very beginning. It doesn't make sense to pass moral judgment on the former, even if some very nasty characters listened to Beethoven and thought they heard departed giants striding the earth.

I have never grasped or wanted to grasp why Hitler looked to northern India for the origin of his Teutonic tribe. One should always be on guard when somebody exalts the volk. Same with Tolstoy and his feeling for the Russian peasantry, by all accounts the most depraved people that ever lived, known mainly for their proficiency in wife-beating and anti-semitism. They didn't survive modernity, though.

An interesting book on the subject of invented history, by the way, is "The Myth of Scotland," by Hugh Trevor-Roeper. Caveat: he really loathed Scots - I'm not sure why.

But I don't think that rural Texans resisted the Trans-Texas Corridor out of a romantic impulse in remembrance of their lost folkways.

That said: I don't find "local traditions" ersatz at all. Despite our ever-increasing homogenization, regional differences persist in Texas (or so it seems to a city-dweller). East Texas, in particular, remains distinct, and not well-known to the rest of the state. It's true it has lost its "gracious Southern" air. Central Texas retains a residual German tidiness. West Texas has always seemed to me to have the easiest melding of Anglo and Mexican. If I find in a central Texas cemetery plot, among headstones invoking Gott, a grave outlined with rocks or shells, I think: East Texas. People's names: in West Texas women are much more likely to be named some feminization of their daddy's name: Danna, Glenna, Steva. Or ending in -dora or -lee, but rarely a Southern double name. The barns, even the various types of joints of wooden buildings are indicative of the provenance of their builders. A wonderful UT professor and German Texan named Terry Jordan wrote several books on this subject.

Not "of concern" or interest, by fiat, The Niche, I know, I got it.

[luciaphile]

Luciaphile, I reject romanticism in favor of humanism. That's my MO. Granted, it's a lot easier to say that than to contribute to the administration of my preferences. I never claimed to be an effective advocate of my beliefs, some kind of social engineer. I shall only state them and hope that others might prevail upon my reasoning to win small humanistic victories, even if I should never know of them.

Replied in Anything You Want, lest I try the moderator's patience.

[IronTiger]

Humanism? Romanticism? Tax rebates in the form of Beaver Nuggets?

I thought this was about the next light rail line.

[TheNiche]

Humanism? Romanticism? Tax rebates in the form of Beaver Nuggets?

I thought this was about the next light rail line.

The debate centers on whether it was wiser to construct the entire line all at once and more quickly or to construct it much more slowly and in segments, comparing the impact on local businesses. I suggested that small business owners should be compensated financially for any implied government taking. Rather than refute the basis for financial compensation, the folks on here tried to defend constructed notions of neighborhood and community that are founded in Romanticism. That's how we got here, but we are on topic.

What luciaphile moved to the 'Anything Goes' thread, she did so thoughtfully and appropriately.

(Next time, before claiming that we're off topic, you should read the thread.)

[IHB2]

What luciaphile moved to the 'Anything Goes' thread, she did so thoughtfully and appropriately.

my interpretation of "luciaphile" indicates the poster is Ricky Ricardo, so not a she.

[luciaphile]

my interpretation of "luciaphile" indicates the poster is Ricky Ricardo, so not a she.

Sigh. Back to "Anything at All." I wish I could post in the regular thread with the other kids.

[Slick Vik]

The debate centers on whether it was wiser to construct the entire line all at once and more quickly or to construct it much more slowly and in segments, comparing the impact on local businesses. I suggested that small business owners should be compensated financially for any implied government taking. Rather than refute the basis for financial compensation, the folks on here tried to defend constructed notions of neighborhood and community that are founded in Romanticism. That's how we got here, but we are on topic.

What luciaphile moved to the 'Anything Goes' thread, she did so thoughtfully and appropriately.

(Next time, before claiming that we're off topic, you should read the thread.)

After staying in vancouver for a week, it's fairly obvious the light rail system is a joke and any rail system should be underground or elevated here. The speed, efficiency, convenience, and comfort is unmatched. Houston is a half century behind any "world class" city.

[TGM]

travelers used to stop for bbq, gasoline, whatever in Hempstead. then the 290 bypass got built. travelers still ate bbq, stopped for gasoline, whatever. just not in Hempstead.

While the Hempsteads are becoming the norm there is always the odd Marfa example that finds a way to survive or emerge from obscurity despite being off the beaten path.

[IronTiger]

After staying in vancouver for a week, it's fairly obvious the light rail system is a joke and any rail system should be underground or elevated here. The speed, efficiency, convenience, and comfort is unmatched. Houston is a half century behind any "world class" city.

I've been hearing some anti-Vancouver stuff lately--companies pulling out, and it just not being a great city. Frankly, I think "world-class" is a pretentious term thrown around that people attach to whatever city has the best looks.

[IHB2]

While the Hempsteads are becoming the norm there is always the odd Marfa example that finds a way to survive or emerge from obscurity despite being off the beaten path.

Hard to compare to Hempstead - Marfa is a plaything of the art-patron rich, a very recent development and one that likely will last only until the rich turn their gaze elsewhere.

Edited September 4, 2012 by IHB2

[TheNiche]

I've been hearing some anti-Vancouver stuff lately--companies pulling out, and it just not being a great city. Frankly, I think "world-class" is a pretentious term thrown around that people attach to whatever city has the best looks.

I think that it implies which cities tourists can most easily idealize themselves as living in without everyday familial or financial constraints or the need for employment. That's how they see a city when they visit it, after all, and most people lack the imagination necessary to impose realistic expectations upon themselves.

That said, Slick Vik's comment was pretty much random. The East End line is probably the one least deserving to be built up, given the low density, minimal congestion, and the ready availability of alternate parallel routes.

[TGM]

Hard to compare to Hempstead - Marfa is a plaything of the art-patron rich, a very recent development and one that likely will last only until the rich turn their gaze elsewhere.

I think Hempstead should target these same patrons with a campaign touting that there is "plenty of Hemp in Hempstead."

[samagon]

I think Hempstead should target these same patrons with a campaign touting that there is "plenty of Hemp in Hempstead."

More like "Hempstead... dude we're so much higher than Houston" which is accurate, their elevation is about double that of Houston.

[IHB2]

I think Hempstead should target these same patrons with a campaign touting that there is "plenty of Hemp in Hempstead."

and the whole munchies thing would revitalize the flagging bbq businesses that the 290 bypass ruined - thus providing Niche's reparations in a way that even a libertarian could support

[TGM]

and the whole munchies thing would revitalize the flagging bbq businesses that the 290 bypass ruined - thus providing Niche's reparations in a way that even a libertarian could support

Hempstead Smokehouse - BBQ & novelty gifts. Next exit 420ft.

[TheNiche]

Guys, now we're off topic.

[citykid09]

After staying in vancouver for a week, it's fairly obvious the light rail system is a joke and any rail system should be underground or elevated here. The speed, efficiency, convenience, and comfort is unmatched. Houston is a half century behind any "world class" city.

I agree and always have. People say they don't know what a world class city it, but you know a world class city when you are in one. It’s just a feeling you get. Shops and cafes on corners, people walking around, entrances to mass transit under or above ground. A city where you don't have to move away to become famous, a city capable of hosting an Olympics, a city with name recognition where you don't have to say the state or country name after it. A city where you can fly in and take a train into the city or to any major area. A city with at least one major theme park nearby. A city where TV shows are shot and set in. the list goes on.....

I hope someday soon after the light rail, the city will decide to build a mass transit system like all world class cities have. In reality, METRO light rail is just a street car. If you go to cities like San Francisco their light rail is used in addition to their heavy rail BART system, which is exactly what Houston needs to head out into the suburbs (used as a commuter/urban rail).

[Slick Vik]

I think that it implies which cities tourists can most easily idealize themselves as living in without everyday familial or financial constraints or the need for employment. That's how they see a city when they visit it, after all, and most people lack the imagination necessary to impose realistic expectations upon themselves.

That said, Slick Vik's comment was pretty much random. The East End line is probably the one least deserving to be built up, given the low density, minimal congestion, and the ready availability of alternate parallel routes.

Nice try Niche. I have about 50 relatives there, and my opinion is not based simply based on my observations, but their testimonials as well. I myself rode both the bus and train while there, and reading houstonians praising bus is about as big a joke as there is. No comparison, more like an evil necessity.

[TheNiche]

It’s just a feeling you get. Shops and cafes on corners, people walking around, entrances to mass transit under or above ground. A city where you don't have to move away to become famous, a city capable of hosting an Olympics, a city with name recognition where you don't have to say the state or country name after it. A city where you can fly in and take a train into the city or to any major area. A city with at least one major theme park nearby. A city where TV shows are shot and set in. the list goes on.....

I hope someday soon after the light rail, the city will decide to build a mass transit system like all world class cities have. In reality, METRO light rail is just a street car. If you go to cities like San Francisco their light rail is used in addition to their heavy rail BART system, which is exactly what Houston needs to head out into the suburbs (used as a commuter/urban rail).

So...a city capable of fostering ridiculous and often outright stupid triviality. That's what passes for "global". Citykid, you're pissing me off. I'm going to go get a beer from the corner bar. That's what Houston has to offer. And it is good (and cheap).

[TheNiche]

Nice try Niche. I have about 50 relatives there, and my opinion is not based simply based on my observations, but their testimonials as well. I myself rode both the bus and train while there, and reading houstonians praising bus is about as big a joke as there is. No comparison, more like an evil necessity.

Transit is an unfortunate reality for big cities, generally speaking. The automobile is ideal. Light rail is better than buses, but so much more expensive as to render it impractical along most routes and for most cities.

[kylejack]

Maybe we should do some polling to find out what percentage of various areas make regular use of public transit. Maybe probable ridership is more important than density.

Edited September 4, 2012 by kylejack

[TheNiche]

Maybe we should do some polling to find out what percentage of various areas make regular use of public transit. Maybe probable ridership is more important than density.

The Census already does that for you. The caveat is that existing transit use may not be a reliable indicator of the potential within that neighborhood for non-users of transit to adopt transit use. That is to say, if all that light rail could accomplish is to induce bus users to switch to light rail at several times the cost per rider, then little has been accomplished and the endeavor has been wasteful.

[Slick Vik]

Transit is an unfortunate reality for big cities, generally speaking. The automobile is ideal. Light rail is better than buses, but so much more expensive as to render it impractical along most routes and for most cities.

Automobile is NOT ideal. Get your head out of the sand Niche.

So...a city capable of fostering ridiculous and often outright stupid triviality. That's what passes for "global". Citykid, you're pissing me off. I'm going to go get a beer from the corner bar. That's what Houston has to offer. And it is good (and cheap).

Much worse things could be said about Houston.

[TheNiche]

Automobile is NOT ideal. Get your head out of the sand Niche.

Then we should expect to see small and mid-sized communities that stopped growing at a walkable pre-war density and scale adopting and operating mass transit. We don't, of course, for the obvious reason that transit is an expensive and inconvenient measure whose principal purpose is to alleviate congestion and save the time of people commuting in private automobiles.

In those places, ideally suited for affordable and convenient transportation, we find that mass transit isn't that.

Much worse things could be said about Houston.

Say them.