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Pumapayam

HAIF demo poll

Pick a Houston landmark.  

103 members have voted

  1. 1. If you could save ONLY one from demolition.

    • River Oaks Theatre
      55
    • Williams Waterwall
      49


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I'm tired of this topic, aren't you?

If the question is directed towards me, no. It would be nice to see if we can at least get a 100 votes and really see what the HAIFers think. Right now, I am right with my assumption.

There are a ton of other topics to keep your interest man. Thanx for the topic bump though. Night B) .

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Stupid Topic Puma. Your just mad someone called you out when you said the Water Wall was more "Historical" then the River Oaks Theater. :P;)

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Stupid Topic Puma. Your just mad someone called you out when you said the Water Wall was more "Historical" then the River Oaks Theater. :P;)

Call it what you want, looks like a healthy 10% margin though.

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I think it has to do with which has more usefulness to a greater number of people. River Oaks is a niche market. The waterfall is more egalitarian.

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I think it has to do with which has more usefulness to a greater number of people. River Oaks is a niche market. The waterfall is more egalitarian.

Fountains aren't known for usefulness. A backdrop for high school prom photos?

I'm going to admit this is a silly argument - some of us have no interest in the waterwall, and some don't care about River Oaks Theatre. This thread could go on forever...at least Puma knows about the Menil now

I also think if River Oaks Theatre was in uptown, this poll wouldn't even exist :)

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Fountains aren't known for usefulness. A backdrop for high school prom photos?

I'm going to admit this is a silly argument - some of us have no interest in the waterwall, and some don't care about River Oaks Theatre. This thread could go on forever...at least Puma knows about the Menil now

I also think if River Oaks Theatre was in uptown, this poll wouldn't even exist :)

Agreed. I also think times change and opinions of what was once very important (Menil, Rothko Chapel) do change.

I mean, at one point the Astrodome and Ship Channel were hotly contested places of interest.

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Agreed. I also think times change and opinions of what was once very important (Menil, Rothko Chapel) do change.

Bad examples. They are still very important.

I mean, at one point the Astrodome and Ship Channel were hotly contested places of interest.

More bad examples.

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I also think if River Oaks Theatre was in uptown, this poll wouldn't even exist :)

River Oaks Theatre is not located in a depressed area, and actually resides in a zip code where the residents experience above average income levels.

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Fountains aren't known for usefulness. A backdrop for high school prom photos?

I'm going to admit this is a silly argument - some of us have no interest in the waterwall, and some don't care about River Oaks Theatre. This thread could go on forever...at least Puma knows about the Menil now

I also think if River Oaks Theatre was in uptown, this poll wouldn't even exist :)

Even if they're not useful or people haven't visited, I think they still like to know they are there. I can't remember specifics, but I know I've visited differenct cities with prominent places and I was shocked to learn my local friends had never been. They were major tourist attractions, yet the locals had never been. Doesn't negate the pride the city's residents take in it.

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Agreed. I also think times change and opinions of what was once very important (Menil, Rothko Chapel) do change.

I think the fact one is free (waterwall) to visit and the other places are paid admission (River Oaks Theatre, Menil?)probably helps its overall penetration and accessibility too.

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River Oaks Theatre is not located in a depressed area, and actually resides in a zip code where the residents experience above average income levels.

I think his point was that if the RO theater was in Uptown, then you would live near it and therefore love it and therefore wouldn't have started this poll.

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I think his point was that if the RO theater was in Uptown, then you would live near it and therefore love it and therefore wouldn't have started this poll.

I actually do appreciate both, but this thread/poll was created only as a response to Subdude's comment.

I would be hard pressed to argue that the waterwall is more "historic" than the shopping center.

Implying that it's OK to demolish the oldest extant theater in the city because it is only used by "fanboys" to see "artsy" movies is about as shallow as it gets. Don't worry, there will always be plenty of multiplexes with stadium seating catering to people who think like that.

Or maybe the River Oaks should just start showing more Jim Carrey comedies, or Bruce Willis action flix. You know, real crowd pleasing movies, not that "artsy" stuff. Then it might be worth saving.

Historical or not, he challenged that the theatre is more valuable to Houston than the waterwall. I proved him wrong, the waterwall is as equally important, and really marginally more so based on the poll results. Again, I am not advocating to demo the theatre, but if the choice had to be made, the waterwall would be my passion to save, and many others.

There is nothing wrong with admitting that Houston loves both the waterwall and the River Oaks Theatre, is just that people love the waterwall more! :P

Edited by Pumapayam

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I think his point was that if the RO theater was in Uptown, then you would live near it and therefore love it and therefore wouldn't have started this poll.

Yes, indeed...

the waterwall would be my passion to save, and many others.

I must say, I am amazed by your passion for this fountain. I doubt you'd see a 17 page thread about its demolition, however. Regardless, we're not going to have any converts here... I'm banishing myself from this thread; that is, unless I come back with some new aliases to vote for the RO Theatre. BWAHAHAHA!!!!

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Bad examples. They are still very important.

More bad examples.

I just like the way you crankily point out the flaws in those arguments.

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I actually do appreciate both, but this thread/poll was created only as a response to Subdude's comment.

Historical or not, he challenged that the theatre is more valuable to Houston than the waterwall.

Gaaahhhhhh! For the love of the baby jeebus, the word is historic, not historical!!!!

I will look past all of the other ESL-ishness, because you love the waterwall so much. But I'm begging you to stop with 'historical.'

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Let's just keep 'em both ... and demo something REALLY worthwhile ... like the Astrodome!

No sweating it man, totally understand the response, but it is just a way for me to prove a point about certain types of Houston historical historic icons are important to people.

I also would prefer to keep both, this poll could essentially be "Which landmark is better?" or something to that tune.

BTW, Astrodome is staying put. . . until it is structurally unsound.

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I will look past all of the other ESL-ishness, because you love the waterwall so much.

You mean, like the improbability of a 25 year old structure being 'historic' in the first place?

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I think the fact one is free (waterwall) to visit and the other places are paid admission (River Oaks Theatre, Menil?)probably helps its overall penetration and accessibility too.

Good God, the Menil is FREE.

Turn off the internet and go there! Renzo Piano's design of the main exhibit and Cy Twombly Gallery is stunning. It's a perfect setting to see a private collection of art. The art is wonderful too. Matisse, Dali, Matta, and Picasso are just a few of the names you'll see close-up. There's also a permanent Flavin exhibit in the Richmond Hall. Rothko Chapel and the Byzantine Fresco Chapel are nice too.

Houston has a jewel. The entire Menil Collection is pretty darn amazing. You really should treat yourself and go.

As for the River Oaks, there is even more reason to keep it now that the Greenway has closed. While art + foreign films might seem like the realm of the elite; they shouldn't be. It costs no more to see a film there than any cineplex in town. Plus, they do some great stuff too like classic runs and midnight shows. Expand your mind and try it.

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I had a hard enough time finding 10 Houston icons more significant than the waterwall. I could not even complete that.

And when we say demo, it means demo, not relocate. If the fountain were relocated it would not be as big of an issue, but I am sure people would rather it see intact in the same location. It is a significant Houston icon. A landmark worthy of keeping.

I mention the Menil building only because the real reason people go to that location is for the contents, but than does not make it a landmark. The unique roof design is architecturally interesting, but not landmark worthy.

I seem to repeat myself a lot.

Hmm, the Menil shows up on every list of the top Renzo creations worldwide. A lot of Houston architects (and the A in HAIF is a key here) and Houston art lovers are very proud that this building resides in Houston. There are about 50 other reasons it's landmark worthy, but I'm not sure you would appreciate them.

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Hmm, the Menil shows up on every list of the top Renzo creations worldwide. A lot of Houston architects (and the A in HAIF is a key here) and Houston art lovers are very proud that this building resides in Houston. There are about 50 other reasons it's landmark worthy, but I'm not sure you would appreciate them.

OT, I did check out the Menil, the building itself part is still just okay, but I agree, it is 100% worth keeping.

The error of my ways.

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If that waterwall is supposed to be something this city cherishes than we are really behind the game. Cant even compare the River Oaks Theater to it. :mellow::D

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Philip Johnson is having a laugh with Charles Moore at this thread.

For those, like me, who have NO idea who these people are, please explain.

Do they own the properties that these two icons sit on?

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For those, like me, who have NO idea who these people are, please explain.

Do they own the properties that these two icons sit on?

Since you are the author of this thread, your statement is profoundly sad.

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I think we need to sit (or stand) and think which item has MORE historical significance. Which one is admired more architecturally? I think demolishing either one would be a mistake, but as well all know it comes down to the dollar bill.

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I think we need to sit (or stand) and think which item has MORE historical significance. Which one is admired more architecturally? I think demolishing either one would be a mistake, but as well all know it comes down to the dollar bill.

What a change a few months makes, it seems the polls have shifted from a high margin in favor of the waterwall to almost dead even with a 37/39 split. :unsure:

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Lose the waterwall, no contest. I've lived here 15 years been through that area 100s of times and never once thought to get out and spend any time at it. It's in the middle of a sea of sidewalkless streets and invariably I'm being swept along in those streets in my car desperately focusing on not getting in an accident.

Edited by sidegate

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Lose the waterwall, no contest. I've lived here 15 years been through that area 100s of times and never once thought to get out and spend any time at it. It's in the middle of a sea of sidewalkless streets and invariably I'm being swept along in those streets in my car desperately focusing on not getting in an accident.

See if you can find a good parking lot near the waterwall and/or a good garage. With the internet one could try to put planning into getting to the Waterwall.

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I like the waterfall. It is very pretty. It seems more landmarkish to me. I have always liked it. I find it to be one of my favorite places in Houston. I also like the look of the theater (I used to go there for RHPC back when I was a part of the cast in '98-'99). As far as a place to go I don't care for it. It seems to me that most of the shows are art and indie films and that is not really my cup of tea. It is a important landmark though. It was a tough decision, but I picked the waterfall in the end. The theater is great, but all towns have a historical theater (though ROT is one of the few that is still a theater and it has been a movie theater for a long time as well). The waterfall is a bit more unique. Really both would be terrible. Here is my ten (no real order just as they pop into my head): The Alabama Theater (sad and empty as it is), The waterfall, the odd white statue downtown (near the library), The Beer-Can house, the statue of the violinist out side of the Worthem (or is it more Jones hall), GRB, the Galleria, the zoo, the science museum and NASA. I would also count the DT skyline as a landmark, because it is always shown and so well known. Also if I had to pick between the River Oaks and the Alabama I would pick the Alabama strait up for looks and style. Lastly I love Puma's pic of the waterfall. Currently the vote is 46/52 (ROT).

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What a change a few months makes, it seems the polls have shifted from a high margin in favor of the waterwall to almost dead even with a 37/39 split. unsure.gif

And just to update and bump an old thread, 3 years later, the Water Wall has fallen out of favor, and has seen been converted to a public park.

With a new split of 52/46, in favor of the River Oaks Theatre, it seems that I was wrong. *sigh* :unsure:

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This is a funny comment as every street around the water wall is fully sidewalked. Admittedly - some are torn up right now as the Uptown district is in the process of adding their fancy lighting system to the sidewalks, and the sidewalk is torn up across Post Oak from the Waterwall - but that is due to the new building being constructed. There are actually a surprising number of people wandering along those ribbons of concrete that line the sidewalkess streets around the Galleria and Williams Tower.

Lose the waterwall, no contest. I've lived here 15 years been through that area 100s of times and never once thought to get out and spend any time at it. It's in the middle of a sea of sidewalkless streets and invariably I'm being swept along in those streets in my car desperately focusing on not getting in an accident.

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It would be nice to see if we can at least get a 100 votes and really see what the HAIFers think. Right now, I am right with my assumption.

And this week almost 4 years later, we finally hit 100 votes, with 2 more added to the Water Wall this week.

52 for River Oaks Theatre and 48 for Water Wall.

I guess that means it's neutral really, with a slight advantage to the theatre.

Close votes.

Edited by Pumapayam

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