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HAIF Demo Poll


Pumapayam

Pick a Houston landmark.  

103 members have voted

  1. 1. If you could save ONLY one from demolition.

    • River Oaks Theatre
      55
    • Williams Waterwall
      49


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The problem with the demo question is that the water wall is replaceable - either with bigger or better fountains, or something else that makes for good photos.

Sums up my opinion. Though I'd hate to see either gone.

Puma, you're probably technically correct that the theater isn't scheduled to be demolished in the near future, but I think the information out there (unless I've missed something recent) suggests that it is currently Weingarten's plan to demolish it in the not-too-distant future.

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but I think the information out there (unless I've missed something recent) suggests that it is currently Weingarten's plan to demolish it in the not-too-distant future.

Obviously, if that is the case, then similar to the AstroWorld situation, it will get demolished regardless of the public outcry. The support to protest the demo will not be publicized or immense as the Save Astroworld campaign, but it will ten fold of the effort made for the River Oaks Theatre. Once a formal announcement and demo date is decided, the media and Houstonians will be all over this.

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You are joking right, The fact that most people consider Transco/Williams Tower a houston icon, how could one not associate the waterwall along with it. Even on it's own, it is known without the tower. You can see it from the freeway.

And yes musicman, I am aware of the more recent Medical Center waterwall, it has a similar look, but the design and location are not nearly as nice as the Williams waterwall. I was unaware of it being double sided though. That is news to me.

The waterwall is visible from 610, albeit barely. To see it you have to know it's there, and give a hard look towards that side. It's not like a new guy in town will see it like you see GRB Conv. center while driving south on 59. So I'll rate that sentence 'barely true'.

I will rather save the waterwall over the theatre. More people identify with it than with the theatre. River Oaks shopping center might have so nostalgia attached to it but so is the waterwall. For those that have never stepped out of their car when driving by the waterwall, at least they see people in the park. I like to have old historic buildings around but if I have to ultimately choose, I'll choose the one that most people (not just an elite few) derive more benefit from.

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Because a single personal opinion seems to be judged as the opinion of the masses in this thread, I'll share mine.

I asked a friend last night what he thought about the difference and he laughed at the idea that the theatre was more valuable, important...whatever. He's been there, unlike me, and he didn't even think it was close. He gave me a look like, are you serious? But then again, he's in his mid-twenties like me.

So I guess since I now have a personal friend who says the waterwall is more valuable, then I guess that means that it is :wacko:

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like an outhouse/giant urinal?

LOL! Yeah, perhaps for the bums at 4am, but I am talking about in relation to the Williams Tower, that waterwall I believe helps regulate the water pressure for the toilets and such in the Tower.

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Because a single personal opinion seems to be judged as the opinion of the masses in this thread, I'll share mine.

I asked a friend last night what he thought about the difference and he laughed at the idea that the theatre was more valuable, important...whatever. He's been there, unlike me, and he didn't even think it was close. He gave me a look like, are you serious? But then again, he's in his mid-twenties like me.

So I guess since I now have a personal friend who says the waterwall is more valuable, then I guess that means that it is :wacko:

Your friend is not alone. We can all agree that both the waterwall and the theatre are important to Houston. But when you isolate the two of them and really decide which one is worth keeping (and not relocating/rebuilding), it's the waterwall that people enjoy.

The movie theatre is just an old structure that is rare, and that is why it is valued. People on here comment that the theatre shows unique movies that are not shown anywhere else, I diagree, as larger theatres are catering to that now.

The waterwall is not a place of business and despite what is in the medical center, is really one of a kind. It's design it contemporary and standing within the waterfalls is almost spiritual.

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Since when is the River Oaks Theatre elitist? Those saying that must have never been there. The Rocky Horror Picture Show is played there, fer chrissakes!

Even funnier when you consider the "elitist" claims are coming from residents of Uptown, that bastion of populism.

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We can all agree that both the waterwall and the theatre are important to Houston.

Can't.

But when you isolate the two of them and really decide which one is worth keeping (and not relocating/rebuilding), it's the waterwall that people enjoy.

If by "people" you mean "some fountain lovers", then yeah. Obviously some people don't enjoy that fountain.

The movie theatre is just an old structure that is rare, and that is why it is valued. People on here comment that the theatre shows unique movies that are not shown anywhere else, I diagree, as larger theatres are catering to that now.

False. Right now, RO is showing "The Children of Huang Shi" and "Then She Found Me". You can't see those films at any other theater in Houston.

The waterwall is not a place of business and despite what is in the medical center, is really one of a kind. It's design it contemporary and standing within the waterfalls is almost spiritual.

For you. Don't project that fountain love on the rest of us.

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I'd save the waterfall. The theater can always be turned into something else, but the waterfall has the potential to be of more enjoyment by a broader set of people.

True, and isn't it the whole gimmick of the condos anyways. I think someone mentioned before regarding the Turnberry Condo, but I would imagine that the Manhattan and Empire condos that faced the waterwall were sold at a higher premium. I don't think residents will let that view be destroyed.

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True, and isn't it the whole gimmick of the condos anyways. I think someone mentioned before regarding the Turnberry Condo, but I would imagine that the Manhattan and Empire condos that faced the waterwall were sold at a higher premium. I don't think residents will let that view be destroyed.

Yeah, in SE Washington I remember they turned a church into a condo. Now, I am not very religious, but I would think there is something a bit ... odd (sacrilegious) about living in a church (unless I was a priest or a nun). But I am sure now those condos are going for a pretty penny.

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The last time I went to the waterwall was when I was in high school in 1988. I tend to hit the River Oaks Theater about 3 times a year which isn't bad considering I live out of state.

I voted for the ROT.

As for my Houston Top 10;

Hermann Park train

Memorial Park jogging trail on a nice sunny winter day

Tinsley Park view of downtown

Beer Can House

Gulf Building (Chase)

Bayou Bend during Azalea Trail

North/South BLVD tree canopy

Westheimer Curve

Pennzoil Towers

Rice U main quad

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How do you define "elitist"?

In some academic circles, 'elitist' is the sort of person that appreciate and promote what they view as a superior quality of all forms of art as well as their media of transmission. A 'populist' is the antithesis, the sort of person who stocks a massive DVD collection of Disney movies for their kids.

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The last time I went to the waterwall was when I was in high school in 1988. I tend to hit the River Oaks Theater about 3 times a year which isn't bad considering I live out of state.

I voted for the ROT.

As for my Houston Top 10;

Hermann Park train

Memorial Park jogging trail on a nice sunny winter day

Tinsley Park view of downtown

Beer Can House

Gulf Building (Chase)

Bayou Bend during Azalea Trail

North/South BLVD tree canopy

Westheimer Curve

Pennzoil Towers

Rice U main quad

Okay, how is this a landmark? Are you talking about the area in between Hazard and Montrose?

Nice list, looks like some are just generalized nice views, rather than a landmark. (I don't think the entire downtown Houston qualifies as a "landmark"). It does represent Houston, but it is not a landmark.

Also think if you want to identify landmarks of Houston, the Astrodome is always implied. If you are going to have a top 10, it really is 9 plus the Astrodome. Come on now. Astrodome = Houston Landmark. Don't deny it. :P

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Puma.

I agree with you on this topic. I think if the entire city got to vote and only one of those landmarks were saved, the waterwall would win hands down. I also think the vast majority of houstonians would think of the waterwall over the Riveroaks theater when preparing a top 10 list.

The waterwall goes hand-in-hand with the tower and in my list they would be one entity and in the top 5.

As for this group here.. obviously it takes a certain kinda person and mentality to place value in what other might see as, just an old theatre. That same kind of person are the kinds that frequent and contribute to this Haify online community.

Most of us here.. i wouldnt use elitist.. but yeah, I think we can safely say we're urbansnobs to some degree at least compared to the average Houstonian.. and thats not a bad thing.

So it doesnt surprise me that the poll is closer to 50-50, and that those here would argue so strongly to protect the theater over the waterwall.

I do think whoever said earlier that they've never even noticed the waterwall when driving past, either is pulling out some extreme BS to rationalize their opinion that it's just another fountain.. either that or they shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car.

I also don't think use or number of times visited really matters.

I've been to the waterwall maybe only 3-4 times more than the 1 time i've bee nto the theatre.... but I had passed by it 100s of times before ever taking the time to stop and had already learned to love it.

As a park, it not the most user friendly.. but as an icon, i think its indispensable...

If it became city-wide knowledge that Hines was thinking about demolishing it, i think it would garner much much more than the 26000 signatures the theater petition received.

How much do we use the Astrodome now? Nada... but that wouldnt stop me and probably the vast majority of houston voting to protect it over both the theatre and the waterwall.

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My list of civic landmarks in order

Astrodome

Herman Park / Mecom Fountain

Williams Tower / Waterwall

Menil (and surrounding museums)

Penzoil Tower

St. Basils Chapel

Nasa (eventhough its boring and i certainly wouldnt take out of town guests there)

Bayou Bend

San Jac Monument/Battleship Texas

The definition of landmark starts out with "well known".... i think from a national standpoint that probably even rules out the majority of my list. From a civic standpoint, i doubt the theater, or quirky places that we may love like the beercan house or Orange show would be considered well known even by those of us that know them well. And i think it takes a very very special View or Street segment to qualify as well known or landmark.. and i dont think any in this town, as beautiful or nostaligic as they might be, would be considered landmarks.

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And i think it takes a very very special View or Street segment to qualify as well known or landmark.

I still want to know more about this "Westheimer Curve"! What is it, and what is it special?

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I still want to know more about this "Westheimer Curve"! What is it, and what is it special?

It's part of Westheimer. I don't know why it's special. Here's part of it:

070700_07.jpg

I do think whoever said earlier that they've never even noticed the waterwall when driving past, either is pulling out some extreme BS to rationalize their opinion that it's just another fountain.. either that or they shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car.

Huh? To see it from 610, wouldn't you have to take your eyes off the road? I can't say, since I never see it when I drive by.

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