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Pumapayam

HAIF demo poll

Pick a Houston landmark.  

103 members have voted

  1. 1. If you could save ONLY one from demolition.

    • River Oaks Theatre
      55
    • Williams Waterwall
      49


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This topic digressed from here.

As a Houstonian, which landmark do you value more? Both are great landmarks and have had an impact in your life, but if certain events had to happen, and one was chosen to be demolished, which one do would you like to preserve?

Again, this is theoretical, as neither is scheduled for actual demolition in the near future.

1.) River Oaks Theatre

254px-HoustonRiverOaksTheater.JPG

2.) Williams Waterwall

300px-Waterwall.jpg

Edited by Pumapayam

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I moved musicman's response here.

The waterwall is on private land, but people treat it like a public park. Everyone knows about it, and everyone in Houston has been there at least once.
false.
River Oaks Theatre is only used by an elite few who appreciate the old charm that the theatre has, but most people prefer to see movies with digital picture, sound, and stadium seating. Even those theatres are starting to show some of the more unknown films to attract all types of customers.
false.

I have to disagree, anyone who visits Houston has been to the Galleria mall, and usually a trip to the waterwall happens. People take photos there.

Parents take kids there to play. The waterwall gets it's activity because of the halo effect uptown has, more so the Galleria mall. Not everyone feels the same to visit the River Oaks shopping center to go to the theatre.

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I've been going to the River Oaks for about 30 years. I've driven by that fountain a few times, but never got out of the car to look at it. It's a fountain.

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I have to disagree, anyone who visits Houston has been to the Galleria mall, and usually a trip to the waterwall happens. People take photos there.

i'm sitting next to someone right now and she's never been. i think you'd be surprised that some people haven't been to the galleria either. i had an officemate and even though he'd been in houston for 7 yrs, he had never been to the galleria.

I've been going to the River Oaks for about 30 years.
in puma's eye you are an elitist. Edited by musicman

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To like either one is simply because of sentiment anyway. So it depends on each persons history related to the structure/place. Because of time, it wouldn't surprise me if the theatre got more votes. The wiki said the waterway was built in the early 80's?

There's plenty of people who don't even know the theatre exists unless they have a history with it. I would say that the waterwall is a bigger Houston icon, but why? Maybe b/c it has greater visibility?

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i'm sitting next to someone right now and she's never been. i think you'd be surprised that some people haven't been to the galleria either. i had an officemate and even though he'd been in houston for 7 yrs, he had never gone to the galleria.

I've been here 6 years, and I've never been to that fountain...driven by as well, but I have never had the urge to actually stop. I also don't have a family here and I'm well past prom age, so I'm never exactly scouting photo locations. There are better places in Houston for that, anyway

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I've been going to the River Oaks for about 30 years. I've driven by that fountain a few times, but never got out of the car to look at it. It's a fountain.

Okay, you have stated the obvious that it takes one person to show the error of my ways. Let me restate it more realistically then.

Most people would have stronger feelings to save the waterwall, because most people "consider" it a "public landmark", and most people still value that landmark today.

Statues, fountains, plazas, parks have that public landmark appeal to them. It's accessable to everyone, and people can identify with it because they have been there or at least seen it.

Some people, who appreciate historic Houston in a very nostalgic sense, would have strong feelings to save the theatre. Those people "consider" it a "historic landmark", and would rather see it preserved just for the sake of keeping history alive.

An old theatre falls in line with old historical locations, that fit more inline with the museum crowd appeal.

Most people can identify the waterwall and where it is located in Houston, even if they have never been. River Oaks Theatre looks like any old theatre, it is unique, but I am sure there are tons of old theatres around the states that look like it. Not very many, if any, large horseshoe shaped waterwalls that I can think of.

Houston brochures usually have the waterwall in them, not the River Oaks Theatre.

Edited by Pumapayam

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Not very many, if any, large horseshoe shaped waterwalls that I can think of.

i've been to the double wall one in the med center more.

M01A0181.jpg

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in puma's eye you are an elitist.

On that, puma and I agree.

Most people would have stronger feelings to save the waterwall, because most people "consider" it a "public landmark", and most people still value that landmark today.

If I had to guess, I'd say most Houstonians wouldn't list that fountain in a top ten list of Houston landmarks. I've never heard anyone (outside of HAIF) talk about that fountain.

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The problem with the demo question is that the water wall is replaceable - either with bigger or better fountains, or something else that makes for good photos. Heck, if they were going to build a fountain downtown with 2 horseshoes, would anyone care about the water wall anymore?

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If I had to guess, I'd say most Houstonians wouldn't list that fountain in a top ten list of Houston landmarks. I've never heard anyone (outside of HAIF) talk about that fountain.

Really? I'd love to see a list without it on there. I'd be curious to see what would replace it.

Edited by lockmat

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In the 25 years that fountain has been there, I have gone to it once, in 1986. I was trying to score with a chick that I met, coincidentally, at Birra Poretti's in River Oaks Shopping Center. It didn't work, and I blame that stupid fountain.

Seriously, I do not even find the water wall particularly attractive, or architecturally interesting. As musicman pointed out, I find the one in TMC much better. River Oaks, on the other hand, is an architectural gem, and historically much more significant than the waterwall. I think puma's irrational exuberance for the waterwall is merely Galleria homerism, as evidenced by his location.

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If I had to guess, I'd say most Houstonians wouldn't list that fountain in a top ten list of Houston landmarks. I've never heard anyone (outside of HAIF) talk about that fountain.

You are joking right, The fact that most people consider Transco/Williams Tower a houston icon, how could one not associate the waterwall along with it. Even on it's own, it is known without the tower. You can see it from the freeway.

And yes musicman, I am aware of the more recent Medical Center waterwall, it has a similar look, but the design and location are not nearly as nice as the Williams waterwall. I was unaware of it being double sided though. That is news to me.

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Really? I'd love to see a list without it on there. I'd be curious to see what would replace it.

Simple.

Go talk to the person in the office next to you, or a friend, or whomever, and ask them to write down their top 10 Houston landmarks. As quickly as they can.

I think you'd find some people have a hard time even getting to 10 quickly, and while the Transco Tower would make some lists, my hopes are not as high for the waterfall. Of course, the proof is in the experiment.

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You are joking right, The fact that most people consider Transco/Williams Tower a houston icon, how could one not associate the waterwall along with it. Even on it's own, it is known without the tower. You can see it from the freeway.

No, I'm not joking. I've never seen the fountain from the freeway, only when driving from The Galleria to Best Buy, and then only when I happen to look over that way. I think maybe it's known to you and your elite group of friends, but they may not be an accurate sample of the general population.

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You are joking right, The fact that most people consider Transco/Williams Tower a houston icon, how could one not associate the waterwall along with it. Even on it's own, it is known without the tower. You can see it from the freeway.

That must be why traffic on the west loop is bad. let's doze it and get traffic moving again!!

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Really? I'd love to see a list without it on there. I'd be curious to see what would replace it.

Houston does not have that many well identified landmarks.

I can think of:

  1. the Astrodome
  2. the Williams tower
  3. San Jacinto Monument - (Not really in Houston)
  4. Mecom Fountain - Hermann Park
  5. The Sam Houston on horse Statue - Hermann Park
  6. Virtuoso - Downtown

I am struggling to find others that are worth mentioning.

Even with the list I have made, the waterwall is much more identifiable in Houston than Mecom Fountain. I think after the Astrodome and Williams Tower, the Waterwall is easily third.

It's like Family Feud!

FAMILY%20FEUD.jpg

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I just asked my designer to make a list. I used the word "landmark" and he asked 'well, what's a landmark'. I narrowed it down by saying a building (s) or public space that you easily and quickly identify with Houston.

His list in order was

San Jacinto Monument

Museum District

Gallleria

Transco Tower

Astrodome

Memorial Park

Interesting.

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I think you'd find some people have a hard time even getting to 10 quickly,

I might have to agree with that. I think I'm gonna see if I can come up with ten myself.

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Oh NASA, how could I forget NASA!

Check out this list

Okay, it's sad when the "beer can" house beats out River Oaks Theatre for a spot on this list. :lol:

250px-Beer_can_house.jpg

Please, scavenge the internet for Houston landmark lists that have River Oaks Theatre and not The Williams Waterwall in it.

I challenge ya! B)

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No, I'm not joking. I've never seen the fountain from the freeway, only when driving from The Galleria to Best Buy, and then only when I happen to look over that way. I think maybe it's known to you and your elite group of friends, but they may not be an accurate sample of the general population.

From this website

Houston Water Wall and Williams Tower

This photo presents a unique view of two important Houston landmarks, contrasting soft summer clouds with hard edged modern architecture.

water-wall-houston-C1-03.jpg

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Here's my list.

waterway (it's kind of fresh in my mind :)

transco

BOA tower

San Jacinton monument

Galleria mall

Hermann/Memorial park

Sam Houston statue in Hermann

nasa

galveston?

astrodome

Museum district oak trees

Please, scavenge the internet for Houston landmark lists that have River Oaks Theatre and not The Williams Waterwall in it.

http://images.google.com/images?um=1&h...ouston+landmark

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The problem with the demo question is that the water wall is replaceable - either with bigger or better fountains, or something else that makes for good photos. Heck, if they were going to build a fountain downtown with 2 horseshoes, would anyone care about the water wall anymore?

I agree with that, but that is a huge change, it is almost like saying, "lets relocate River Oaks Theatre" to some place else.

But I think that it's location, in uptown, by the tower, surrounded by mature trees is what identies the location as a whole. "Most" Houston brochures/websites have the waterwall in them. "Almost Any" uptown/Galleria related brochures/websites have the waterwall in them.

The waterwall is uptown, not downtown. I am sure people would love to have a similar or better fountain downtown. But the uptown district and Houston residents, like me, would never let the existing one leave or be demo'd.

Nice search idea.

I see the waterwall was the #2 image listed, works for me,

The old Bookstop/Theatre on Shepherd is #6, and the River Oaks Theatre first appears way down on page 3, at #48. A special note, that both of those images are linked from the same article.

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Top Ten Houston Landmarks

10) River Oaks Shopping Center

9) Mecom Fountain

8) Mounted Sam Houston

7) Beer Can House

6) Drawbridge under Hwy 59

5) "JadeNext" graffitti

4) Funeral Home Museum

3) Addicks Resevoir crop circles

2) Banana sculpture on I-45

1) Big Head on Main Street

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Top Ten Houston Landmarks

10) River Oaks Shopping Center

9) Mecom Fountain

8) Mounted Sam Houston

7) Beer Can House

6) Drawbridge under Hwy 59 Right. . . no

5) "JadeNext" graffitti Ha no!

4) Funeral Home Museum Not sure if you are being serious here.

3) Addicks Resevoir crop circles Ha no!

2) Banana sculpture on I-45 What???

1) Big Head on Main Street No idea on this one.

Funny man, but yeah, nice job, you left out the Astrodome, that is almost implied with Houston. :rolleyes: And the banana sculpture? What the. . .

Here is a photo I took at the waterwall in 2006.

20pbgv4.jpg

Edited by Pumapayam
  • Like 1

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If I had to guess, I'd say most Houstonians wouldn't list that fountain in a top ten list of Houston landmarks. I've never heard anyone (outside of HAIF) talk about that fountain.

Not only would I list that fountain, I'd also list the Mecom Fountain in the Museum District in my top ten list. It's not a good idea to generalize... You don't know what most Houstonians would or wouldn't do on any given day. We're unpredictable like that. ;)

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Here's a decent list

I see neither made the top 20! I've never heard of the National Museum of Funeral History, but now I'm wanting to check it out...

Edit: OK, so it looks like Mercury Room made #41. Maybe not that great of a list...

Edited by OkieEric

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Here's a decent list

I see neither made the top 20! I've never heard of the National Museum of Funeral History, but now I'm wanting to check it out...

Yeah, I found the waterwall at about #136 of the #142 locations named, but jeez, Funplex is on the list. . .

Yeah, it is a strange one. But I do not see River Oaks Theatre anywhere. . . :rolleyes:

I guess you can alway check out a bollywood film at the Funplex. :lol:

Edited by Pumapayam

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Not only would I list that fountain, I'd also list the Mecom Fountain in the Museum District in my top ten list. It's not a good idea to generalize... You don't know what most Houstonians would or wouldn't do on any given day. We're unpredictable like that. ;)

Look at the post I was replying to.

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Maybe it's a landmark for photographers? I asked my work buddy at lunch to name the top 10 Houston landmarks. He mentioned Transco Tower, but not the fountain. He said he's been there once.

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The problem with the demo question is that the water wall is replaceable - either with bigger or better fountains, or something else that makes for good photos.

Sums up my opinion. Though I'd hate to see either gone.

Puma, you're probably technically correct that the theater isn't scheduled to be demolished in the near future, but I think the information out there (unless I've missed something recent) suggests that it is currently Weingarten's plan to demolish it in the not-too-distant future.

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but I think the information out there (unless I've missed something recent) suggests that it is currently Weingarten's plan to demolish it in the not-too-distant future.

Obviously, if that is the case, then similar to the AstroWorld situation, it will get demolished regardless of the public outcry. The support to protest the demo will not be publicized or immense as the Save Astroworld campaign, but it will ten fold of the effort made for the River Oaks Theatre. Once a formal announcement and demo date is decided, the media and Houstonians will be all over this.

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Doesn't that fountain also serve another purpose for the Willaims Tower ? Something about the plumbing of that building.

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Doesn't that fountain also serve another purpose for the Willaims Tower ? Something about the plumbing of that building.

like an outhouse/giant urinal?

Edited by musicman

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bah.. stupid thread.

Edited by Jeebus

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You are joking right, The fact that most people consider Transco/Williams Tower a houston icon, how could one not associate the waterwall along with it. Even on it's own, it is known without the tower. You can see it from the freeway.

And yes musicman, I am aware of the more recent Medical Center waterwall, it has a similar look, but the design and location are not nearly as nice as the Williams waterwall. I was unaware of it being double sided though. That is news to me.

The waterwall is visible from 610, albeit barely. To see it you have to know it's there, and give a hard look towards that side. It's not like a new guy in town will see it like you see GRB Conv. center while driving south on 59. So I'll rate that sentence 'barely true'.

I will rather save the waterwall over the theatre. More people identify with it than with the theatre. River Oaks shopping center might have so nostalgia attached to it but so is the waterwall. For those that have never stepped out of their car when driving by the waterwall, at least they see people in the park. I like to have old historic buildings around but if I have to ultimately choose, I'll choose the one that most people (not just an elite few) derive more benefit from.

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Because a single personal opinion seems to be judged as the opinion of the masses in this thread, I'll share mine.

I asked a friend last night what he thought about the difference and he laughed at the idea that the theatre was more valuable, important...whatever. He's been there, unlike me, and he didn't even think it was close. He gave me a look like, are you serious? But then again, he's in his mid-twenties like me.

So I guess since I now have a personal friend who says the waterwall is more valuable, then I guess that means that it is :wacko:

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like an outhouse/giant urinal?

LOL! Yeah, perhaps for the bums at 4am, but I am talking about in relation to the Williams Tower, that waterwall I believe helps regulate the water pressure for the toilets and such in the Tower.

Edited by TJones

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Because a single personal opinion seems to be judged as the opinion of the masses in this thread, I'll share mine.

I asked a friend last night what he thought about the difference and he laughed at the idea that the theatre was more valuable, important...whatever. He's been there, unlike me, and he didn't even think it was close. He gave me a look like, are you serious? But then again, he's in his mid-twenties like me.

So I guess since I now have a personal friend who says the waterwall is more valuable, then I guess that means that it is :wacko:

Your friend is not alone. We can all agree that both the waterwall and the theatre are important to Houston. But when you isolate the two of them and really decide which one is worth keeping (and not relocating/rebuilding), it's the waterwall that people enjoy.

The movie theatre is just an old structure that is rare, and that is why it is valued. People on here comment that the theatre shows unique movies that are not shown anywhere else, I diagree, as larger theatres are catering to that now.

The waterwall is not a place of business and despite what is in the medical center, is really one of a kind. It's design it contemporary and standing within the waterfalls is almost spiritual.

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Since when is the River Oaks Theatre elitist? Those saying that must have never been there. The Rocky Horror Picture Show is played there, fer chrissakes!

  • Like 1

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Since when is the River Oaks Theatre elitist? Those saying that must have never been there. The Rocky Horror Picture Show is played there, fer chrissakes!

Even funnier when you consider the "elitist" claims are coming from residents of Uptown, that bastion of populism.

Edited by RedScare

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Even funnier when you consider the "elitist" claims are coming from residents of Uptown, that bastion of populism.

:lol:

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Being a Philip Johnson design, the fountain is probably more significant in architectural history. However, I like Art Moderne more than Post-Modernism, so I voted for the theater.

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We can all agree that both the waterwall and the theatre are important to Houston.

Can't.

But when you isolate the two of them and really decide which one is worth keeping (and not relocating/rebuilding), it's the waterwall that people enjoy.

If by "people" you mean "some fountain lovers", then yeah. Obviously some people don't enjoy that fountain.

The movie theatre is just an old structure that is rare, and that is why it is valued. People on here comment that the theatre shows unique movies that are not shown anywhere else, I diagree, as larger theatres are catering to that now.

False. Right now, RO is showing "The Children of Huang Shi" and "Then She Found Me". You can't see those films at any other theater in Houston.

The waterwall is not a place of business and despite what is in the medical center, is really one of a kind. It's design it contemporary and standing within the waterfalls is almost spiritual.

For you. Don't project that fountain love on the rest of us.

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