George Bush Intercontinental Airport (IAH)

[Houston19514]

6 minutes ago, mattyt36 said:

Houston19514, suggest you go to Terminal E international arrivals between 1pm and 5pm . . . I think you'll see that the vast majority of passengers using them are VFR passengers arriving from Africa, Latin America, and Asia.  And with way more than 2 bags (and usually multiple boxes!).  Only one can fit in each car of the "Subway," and they clog the elevators as well.  Pre-COVID that arrivals lobby could be jam-packed.

I don't doubt that the vast majority of passengers using them are VFR passengers arriving...  That tells us nothing about how many are being used...  But whatever the number is, it's nothing but a temporary inconvenience for some arriving passengers.  (And other than complain about it, what would you propose be done?)  And now you're also complaining about them clogging the elevators too?  You are sounding as if you want to completely ban the luggage carts...  Not really sure what point you are trying to make...

[Houston19514]

United Airlines Early Baggage Building construction.

[mattyt36]

39 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

I don't doubt that the vast majority of passengers using them are VFR passengers arriving...  That tells us nothing about how many are being used...  But whatever the number is, it's nothing but a temporary inconvenience for some arriving passengers.  (And other than complain about it, what would you propose be done?)  And now you're also complaining about them clogging the elevators too?  You are sounding as if you want to completely ban the luggage carts...  Not really sure what point you are trying to make...

We're kind of all over the place here.  

(1) Wilcal said that the luggage carts were clogging the Subway/ITT because people having to take it from E to C because of the D/E garage closures.

(2) You said that that is not accurate because the Subway/ITT is still open from E to C, entirely missing the point.

(3) Then you said, "Short-term pain/long-term gain" and implying that there is no need for luggage carts anymore because, I guess, you have never used one.

(4) I pointed out that there are plenty of people who still need them, and this situation will be with us in the long term because (as far as I can tell) there will be no replacement E garage.

(5) Someone else said he actually uses them.

(6) You implied (5) was lazy (or maybe not strong enough, or something, I dunno).  Then you stated that luggage cart usage is down because most suitcases have wheels now.  I do not see how this is germane at all to the discussion.  If there were 5 passengers per hour before the garage closed trying to put a cart on the train and there are now 30, it is immaterial if SmartCarte rented 100,000 carts in 1990 and only 5,000 in 2021 . . . the cause of the bottleneck is the 5 becoming 30 overnight.  So entirely missing the point, again.  Or, stated differently, "talking past each other."  I imagine many of the people trying to cram into the ITT are elderly and can't walk with carts to Terminal C.  There are admittedly ways for passengers "in the know" to handle this, but that's not solution for people who often can't seem to follow signs to their gates.

(7) I mentioned the elevators only as an example of how crowded they were at peak times.  In fact, if you haven't noticed, they were so crowded that an additional bank of elevators were added to the E garage after it opened.  They are now gone.

My point remains: I don't see how this will necessarily get any better in the future--even after the terminal expansion is complete--as you are confident it will.  It seems the only real improvement will be the fact that most international passengers do not park in garages during the duration of their trip, so when ecopark shuttles return to the international arrivals, that should help.  Won't help meeters/greeters, though, but maybe the decreased roadway congestion will encourage people to wait and use the cell phone lot as the arrivals curbside traffic at the peak is atrocious.

Unfortunately there's no elegant way to solve this, as the critical planning fault of IAH (dating to the 1960s and not addressed when Terminal C opened in 1980) was to sandwich the terminals between two relatively small roadways and then build concourses and apron immediately adjacent to it, preventing any opportunity for economical expansion. UA's support facilities to the east of Terminal D further limit what you can do.

The roadways are the critical landside chokepoints of the airport, same as the two crossfield taxiways SF and NR are the airside chokepoints.  To address the persistent roadway problem, the most recent master plan considered the development of a terminal for all airlines but UA on the south side of Will Clayton Parkway to remove ~50% of O&D traffic off of Terminal Road.  I'm sure ITRP includes some elements to address the problem, but there's no way to fix the fundamental issue that IAH will be up against until it develops terminal facilities outside of the Central Terminal Area.

Edited October 13, 2021 by mattyt36

[Houston19514]

27 minutes ago, mattyt36 said:

We're kind of all over the place here.  

(1) Wilcal said that the luggage carts were clogging the Subway/ITT because people having to take it from E to C because of the D/E garage closures.

(2) You said that that is not accurate because the Subway/ITT is still open from E to C, entirely missing the point.

(3) Then you said, "Short-term pain/long-term gain" and implying that there is no need for luggage carts anymore because, I guess, you have never used one.

(4) I pointed out that there are plenty of people who still need them, and this situation will be with us in the long term because (as far as I can tell) there will be no replacement E garage.

(5) Someone else said he actually uses them.

(6) You implied (5) was lazy (or maybe not strong enough, or something, I dunno).  Then you stated that luggage cart usage is down because most suitcases have wheels now.  I do not see how this is germane at all to the discussion.  If there were 5 passengers per hour before the garage closed trying to put a cart on the train and there are now 30, it is immaterial if SmartCarte rented 100,000 carts in 1990 and only 5,000 in 2021 . . . the cause of the bottleneck is the 5 becoming 30 overnight.  So entirely missing the point, again.  Or, stated differently, "talking past each other."  I imagine many of the people trying to cram into the ITT are elderly and can't walk with carts to Terminal C.  There are admittedly ways for passengers "in the know" to handle this, but that's not solution for people who often can't seem to follow signs to their gates.

(7) I mentioned the elevators only as an example of how crowded they were at peak times.  In fact, if you haven't noticed, they were so crowded that an additional bank of elevators were added to the E garage after it opened.  They are now gone.

My point remains: I don't see how this will necessarily get any better in the future--even after the terminal expansion is complete--as you are confident it will.  It seems the only real improvement will be the fact that most international passengers do not park in garages during the duration of their trip, so when ecopark shuttles return to the international arrivals, that should help.  Won't help meeters/greeters, though, but maybe the decreased roadway congestion will encourage people to wait and use the cell phone lot as the arrivals curbside traffic at the peak is atrocious.

Unfortunately there's no elegant way to solve this, as the critical planning fault of IAH (dating to the 1960s and not addressed when Terminal C opened in 1980) was to sandwich the terminals between two relatively small roadways and then build concourses and apron immediately adjacent to it, preventing any opportunity for economical expansion. UA's support facilities to the east of Terminal D further limit what you can do.

The roadways are the critical landside chokepoints of the airport, same as the two crossfield taxiways SF and NR are the airside chokepoints.  To address the persistent roadway problem, the most recent master plan considered the development of a terminal for all airlines but UA on the south side of Will Clayton Parkway to remove ~50% of O&D traffic off of Terminal Road.  I'm sure ITRP includes some elements to address the problem, but there's no way to fix the fundamental issue that IAH will be up against until it develops terminal facilities outside of the Central Terminal Area.

I guess the way to resolve the problem is for you to familiarize yourself with the construction plans.  It is simply a fact that when it is done, there will be access to parking from the International Arrivals area at an equivalent, relatively short, distance from what was available before (and that also means parking will be closer for non-United international departing passengers than was available before this started). That also applies to meeters/greeters... parking will be available just across the drop-off/collection lanes, via elevated covered walkway if one prefers.

 

[mattyt36]

13 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

I guess the way to resolve the problem is for you to familiarize yourself with the construction plans.  It is simply a fact that when it is done, there will be access to parking from the International Arrivals area at an equivalent, relatively short, distance from what was available before (and that also means parking will be closer for non-United international departing passengers than was available before this started). That also applies to meeters/greeters... parking will be available just across the drop-off/collection lanes, via elevated covered walkway if one prefers.

 

I'd be happy to familiarize myself with the construction plans (and I'm sure others would, too) if you want to share them (or at the very least could describe them in a meaningful way with passenger flows and walking distances) . . . surely you can understand that'd be more helpful to the discussion than making a blanket statement that carts don't matter because "it's 2021" and "all suitcases have wheels now."

And I guess in the meantime we can just hang a sign that says "SORRY FOR THE INCONVENIENCE, PLEASE DON'T COMPLAIN."  Based on what (admittedly little) I know, I'm afraid this will only be an increasing headache as traffic returns.  I certainly have changed my travel routine as a result of this.

Edited October 13, 2021 by mattyt36

[Houston19514]

47 minutes ago, mattyt36 said:

I'd be happy to familiarize myself with the construction plans (and I'm sure others would, too) if you want to share them (or at the very least could describe them in a meaningful way with passenger flows and walking distances) . . . surely you can understand that'd be more helpful to the discussion than making a blanket statement that carts don't matter because "it's 2021" and "all suitcases have wheels now."

I wrote several posts ago that upon completion the walk from the international arrivals lobby to the parking garage will be less than 1/10th mile.  I wrote in my immediately preceding post that parking will be available just across the drop-off/collection lanes, via elevated walkways if one prefers.  

Beyond that, you posted links in this very thread showing the plans in detail.  I presumed you had some familiarity with the information you had posted, especially after we had the discussion in which I clarified for you that there is an elevated covered walkway going directly from the parking garage (currently known as C East) to the D/E central processor.

The cover page of the linked document (which link you provided earlier in this thread) shows just how close the parking will be to the new D/E central processor.

https://www.houstontx.gov/council/committees/econdev/20210915/iah-itrp.pdf

Edited October 13, 2021 by Houston19514

[wilcal]

I once was talking with a flustered guy down by the subway at D/E who was making a connection for BA (LHR-IAH) to AA and didn't realize he missed the bag re-check and was mad that he was going to have to walk the 1 mile to Terminal A with his 5 bags.

I told him just to squish his cart on the train and sorry. He told me "this would never fly in London" and I told him about the last few times I've flown into LHR, even on a widebody, we've had to bus to the terminal. 

[mattyt36]

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

I wrote several posts ago that upon completion the walk from the international arrivals lobby to the parking garage will be less than 1/10th mile.

My apologies, I missed that as it was the last reply on the prior page.  That said, I'm not sure that's the right metric compared to where it was before, but I don't know.

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

I wrote in my immediately preceding post that parking will be available just across the drop-off/collection lanes, via elevated walkways if one prefers.  

That was never in dispute, of course there will be an arrivals curbside.  But people getting picked up at the curb aren't the ones using the Subway now.

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

Beyond that, you posted links in this very thread showing the plans in detail.  I presumed you had some familiarity with the information you had posted, especially after we had the discussion in which I clarified for you that there is an elevated covered walkway going directly from the parking garage (currently known as C East) to the D/E central processor.

The cover page of the linked document (which link you provided earlier in this thread) shows just how close the parking will be to the new D/E central processor.

https://www.houstontx.gov/council/committees/econdev/20210915/iah-itrp.pdf

Those are not "construction plans."  Those are layout plans, and they are not detailed at all when it comes to passenger flows.

Consider the following questions:

-Will any parking be placed on top of the new "Central Processor"?  I presume not, but am not sure.

-Will the international arrivals lobby be bumped out to be part of the new Central Processor?  If it stays where it is, it sure won't be a 10th of a mile to the C-East garage, or whatever it will be called then.  Perhaps there will be an entirely new lobby if the bag claim area is expanded, which I know was part of the plan at one point.  But I think it's inaccurate to claim the additional walking distance will be a 10th of a mile from what it was when the E garage was in place and passengers didn't have to leave the building to catch an elevator to the garage.

-I don't believe (but don't know for sure . . . I never parked in the C garage because it was a fight even before the E garage was torn down) that the C-East garage has a separate entrance.  Will it have a separate entrance with its own helix as part of this project?  If not, and E passengers still enter through the C-West helixes, how will the average passenger know how to park in the garage closest to the terminal?  If not, there will still be plenty of traffic between D/E and C.  But maybe they'll just walk since they'll be farther west.

-Will there be an underground pedestrian tunnel to the new Central Processor (maybe a modification of the existing Subway tunnel), or will the only two options be (1) to not change levels and cross 2 islands and 10 lanes of traffic (which I presume is what you mean by the 1/10 of a mile) then change levels in the garage; or (2) to change levels from the arrivals lobby and cross on the outdoor pedestrian bridge, which I think is a cute feature, but not exactly passenger friendly to older passengers with their Smart Cartes in August?

-By how much will total average arrival passenger walking distances change once the D-West pier opens? 

Maybe I'm just dense but that PDF really doesn't speak to the above.

54 minutes ago, wilcal said:

I once was talking with a flustered guy down by the subway at D/E who was making a connection for BA (LHR-IAH) to AA and didn't realize he missed the bag re-check and was mad that he was going to have to walk the 1 mile to Terminal A with his 5 bags.

I told him just to squish his cart on the train and sorry. He told me "this would never fly in London" and I told him about the last few times I've flown into LHR, even on a widebody, we've had to bus to the terminal. 

I can't think of any major U.S. international gateways that are convenient for interline connections if you miss the bag recheck.

Edited October 13, 2021 by mattyt36

[Houston19514]

Yes, without a doubt international travel can involve some significant walking and occasional minor inconveniences, like having to change levels or walk in non-climate-controlled areas to get back to your parked car.  Of course, nobody ever suggested otherwise.

But, in fact, and as I stated to begin with, the current inconvenience of not being able to take luggage carts all the way back to the attached parking garage is indeed temporary and will no longer be the case when the ITRP project is completed.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Houston19514

[mattyt36]

58 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

Yes, without a doubt international travel can involve some significant walking and occasional minor inconveniences, like having to change levels or walk in non-climate-controlled areas to get back to your parked car.  Of course, nobody ever suggested otherwise.

Erm . . . great 2-way conversation!  You remind me of a couple of others on here.  I've been called arrogant many times before, and for good reason, but, hey . . . 

"I don't use luggage carts, so who cares about people who do?"

"There may be some 'significant walking' and what I deem to be 'occasional minor inconveniences'"

Spoken like a true engineer or planner . . . transfer your own preferences and perspectives on to others!

58 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

But, in fact, and as I stated to begin with, the current inconvenience of not being able to take luggage carts all the way back to the attached parking garage is indeed temporary and will no longer be the case when the ITRP project is completed.

In fact, the current inconvenience will become a new inconvenience, but que será, será.  

(Or, better said, may become a new inconvenience because I still don't understand the passenger flows or have answers to the questions I posed above.  You, too, either do--or you don't--understand the flows.  If you do because you're somehow involved with the project, well I'm not sure why answers to the above would necessarily be confidential, but OK.  If you don't, well, I don't think you can represent anything as "fact" any more than I can.  In any case, we'll see soon enough . . . )

Edited October 14, 2021 by mattyt36

[Houston19514]

Compilation of links to videos and documents regarding ITRP to make it convenient for anyone interested in learning about the plans for the international terminals at Bush Intercontinental.  

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/article/IAH-to-break-ground-on-expanded-international-14542242.php

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=AwrVq7H1vrldK2wAPE0PxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTByNWU4cGh1BGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw--?p=iah+breaks+ground+international+expansion&fr=yhs-Lkry-SF01&hspart=Lkry&hsimp=yhs-SF01#id=1&vid=cb50ea26636cc7dec2a4dfac27d78bf2&action=view

http://www.houstontx.gov/council/committees/econdev/20200617/ITRP.pdf

https://player.vimeo.com/video/511205954?app_id=122963

https://www.houstontx.gov/council/committees/econdev/20210322/ITRP-Update.pdf

https://www.houstontx.gov/council/committees/econdev/20210915/iah-itrp.pdf

https://houstontx.swagit.com/play/09162021-772

https://vimeo.com/452854585

https://houstonairport-fis.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/HoustonAirport-FIS-Pre-Bid-Presentation_4-19-21-FIC-Main-FINAL.pdf

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Houston19514

[Houston19514]

On 10/13/2021 at 6:11 PM, mattyt36 said:

 

Those are not "construction plans."  Those are layout plans, and they are not detailed at all when it comes to passenger flows.

Consider the following questions:

-Will any parking be placed on top of the new "Central Processor"?  I presume not, but am not sure.

No, just as there has never been at Terminal E

On 10/13/2021 at 6:11 PM, mattyt36 said:

-Will the international arrivals lobby be bumped out to be part of the new Central Processor?  If it stays where it is, it sure won't be a 10th of a mile to the C-East garage, or whatever it will be called then.  Perhaps there will be an entirely new lobby if the bag claim area is expanded, which I know was part of the plan at one point.  But I think it's inaccurate to claim the additional walking distance will be a 10th of a mile from what it was when the E garage was in place and passengers didn't have to leave the building to catch an elevator to the garage.

Yes. the international arrivals lobby will be bumped out to be under the new ticketing hall.  It's all there in the plans (whether you call them construction plans or layout plans).  And I did not say that the additional walking distance would be a 10th of a mile from what it was when the E garage was in place.  I said the walk from the new arrivals lobby to the C East garage will be 1/10th mile or less.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Houston19514

[Houston19514]

On 10/13/2021 at 6:11 PM, mattyt36 said:

-I don't believe (but don't know for sure . . . I never parked in the C garage because it was a fight even before the E garage was torn down) that the C-East garage has a separate entrance.  Will it have a separate entrance with its own helix as part of this project?  If not, and E passengers still enter through the C-West helixes, how will the average passenger know how to park in the garage closest to the terminal?  If not, there will still be plenty of traffic between D/E and C.  But maybe they'll just walk since they'll be farther west.

I don't know of any new entrances to be added to the C garage, but there is an entrance on the east end of the Terminal C Central Processor (between the original C garage and the C East garage, such that the average passenger won't have to go all the way to the west end.) I believe this entrance is currently unavailable because of the work being done on the roadways, but I'm certain it will be back when the work is done.  (yes, another temporary inconvenience.)

Edited October 18, 2021 by Houston19514

[Houston19514]

On 10/13/2021 at 6:11 PM, mattyt36 said:

-Will there be an underground pedestrian tunnel to the new Central Processor (maybe a modification of the existing Subway tunnel), or will the only two options be (1) to not change levels and cross 2 islands and 10 lanes of traffic (which I presume is what you mean by the 1/10 of a mile) then change levels in the garage; or (2) to change levels from the arrivals lobby and cross on the outdoor pedestrian bridge, which I think is a cute feature, but not exactly passenger friendly to older passengers with their Smart Cartes in August?

Of course there will be a connection to the underground pedestrian tunnel and subway (and the current subway's replacement).  It's already there, right underneath the eastern edge of what will be the new central processor/ticket hall/arrivals hall.  

So passengers will 4 options.  Change levels (oh, the horror) and go to the subway.  Not change levels and take one of the wide cross-walks across the arrivals lanes.  Go up one level and take one of the wide crosswalks across the departure lanes.  Go up two levels and take the covered pedestrian bridge.

And, actually, for the elderly and/or disabled passengers, there's another option:  Make use of the available passenger assistance transportation. 

This is all pretty similar to most major airports (and better than many... at DFW, for example, if you parked at a different terminal, you have to climb on a bus outside, even in August (no smart Cartes allowed).

Bottom line as to the topic of the discussion:  Once the ITRP project is complete, international arriving passengers will indeed have direct access (without having to get on the Subway or a bus) to the parking garage, taxis, Uber/Lyft, and private vehicles right there at Terminal D/E.  

So the inconvenience of having to take the Subway or underground pedestrian walkway to access the parking garage/taxis/uber/Lyft/private vehicles imposed on them by the current closure of the Terminal E arrivals area is in fact temporary.

* All of the information I'm sharing here can be found in the documents and videos linked in my earlier post.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Houston19514

[Houston19514]

On 10/13/2021 at 6:11 PM, mattyt36 said:

-By how much will total average arrival passenger walking distances change once the D-West pier opens? 

I have no idea.  It's a major international gateway.  Some walking is involved. As it gets bigger, more walking might have to be involved.  The good news is, there will be domestic arrival baggage belts in the new central processor, so there will be significantly less walking for a large number of arriving United domestic passengers. (Domestic E arriving passengers will no longer all have to walk to Terminal C to get their bags.)

Edited October 18, 2021 by Houston19514

[mattyt36]

Houston, you seem extraordinarily defensive and super sensitive.  I suppose those qualities are typically correlated.

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

No, just as there has never been at Terminal E

No, but you could get from the elevator bank directly into the building, no? 

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

It's all there in the plans (whether you call them construction plans or layout plans). 

Yet you never bothered to point out where they were after I said I looked at them multiple times and said they were unclear.  So I ask again, on what specific page of the original PDF linked is this information clearly labeled and noted?

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

I don't know of any new entrances to be added to the C garage, but there is an entrance on the east end of the Terminal C Central Processor (between the original C garage and the C East garage, such that the average passenger won't have to go all the way to the west end.) I believe this entrance is currently unavailable because of the work being done on the roadways, but I'm certain it will be back when the work is done.  (yes, another temporary inconvenience.)

Another non-answer to a very specific question, yet you seem to be certain that it's a "temporary inconvenience," implying that the level of service will be restored.  

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

So passengers will 4 options.  Change levels (oh, the horror) and go to the subway.  Not change levels and take one of the wide cross-walks across the arrivals lanes.  Go up one level and take one of the wide crosswalks across the departure lanes.  Go up two levels and take the covered pedestrian bridge.

Oh the horror?  How about oh the arrogance?  Why do you have seem to have such poorly hidden disdain for members of the traveling public that aren't you?  And may travel with more luggage?  And may use a luggage cart?  Do you seriously not think that architects and planners design such facilities to minimize changes in levels, walking distances, etc?  Why so glib?  If your stance is, "Well they did the best they could do with a constrained site," well, OK, I might be less inclined to react the way I am.  But, no, this seems to be personal to you in some weird way that you aren't able to admit that anything isn't perfect.  "Yes, it's bad, as with any construction project, but it'll be better when it's done, and anyone who disagrees can just, er, suck it."  That seems to be the hill you're determined to die on.

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

And, actually, for the elderly and/or disabled passengers, there's another option:  Make use of the available passenger assistance transportation. 

Another throwaway comment.  Again, do you not believe that passenger-friendly facilities are designed to MINIMIZE the need for "passenger assistance transportation" (which I can only assume is a fancy name for a wheelchair).

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

Bottom line as to the topic of the discussion:  Once the ITRP project is complete, international arriving passengers will indeed have direct access (without having to get on the Subway or a bus) to the parking garage, taxis, Uber/Lyft, and private vehicles right there at Terminal D/E.

They have access to all of that except the garage today.  Not sure who you are trying to impress to, or even talking to for that matter, in this seemingly never-ending one-way conversation.

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

* All of the information I'm sharing here can be found in the documents and videos linked in my earlier post.

Indeed.  It's so obvious you can't be bothered to point out exactly where.  And you wait a week before directly addressing the questions.  Simply BIZARRE.

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

This is all pretty similar to most major airports (and better than many... at DFW, for example, if you parked at a different terminal, you have to climb on a bus outside, even in August (no smart Cartes allowed).

Are you saying DFW is a model to follow or something?!  Or, "At least it's not DFW"?  Aim for the stars there, buddy!

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

I have no idea.  It's a major international gateway.  Some walking is involved. As it gets bigger, more walking might have to be involved.  The good news is, there will be domestic arrival baggage belts in the new central processor, so there will be significantly less walking for a large number of arriving United domestic passengers. (Domestic E arriving passengers will no longer all have to walk to Terminal C to get their bags.)

Yes, I know, when the average walking distance is a mile and a half, your response will be, "Well, you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs."

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by mattyt36

[Houston19514]

What's your point?  And what got you so fired up?  Bizarre indeed.

Fact:  At the end of the ITRP project, passengers arriving from Terminal D/E will once again have direct access to (a) parking garage (b) taxis (c) Uber/Lyft (d) hotel/parking shuttles (e) rental car shuttles  and (f) private cars without having to take the Subway.  If you don't believe me, and don't want to spend the time in the documents to verify it, then you'll just have to wait until it's done to see that I was right all along.

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Houston19514

[mattyt36]

28 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

What's your point?  And what got you so fired up?  Bizarre indeed.

Fact:  At the end of the ITRP project, passengers arriving from Terminal D/E will once again have direct access to (a) parking garage (b) taxis (c) Uber/Lyft (d) hotel/parking shuttles (e) rental car shuttles  and (f) private cars without having to go to the Subway tunnel.  If you don't believe me, and don't want to spend the time in the documents to verify it, then you'll just have to wait until it's done to see that I was right all along.

 

Houston if you cared to engage in an actual good faith conversation maybe you’d find out.

Instead the underlying tone is “I’m right and you’ll see. Just look at the document dump that I can’t be bothered to refer to in any way myself other than to say ‘Look, it proves I’m right.’” Alrighty then.

Yes there will be a link to the C East garage. I raised questions about (1) how average passengers would be able to find it, with a real possibility that they could park in C West, ergo having the same problems as being experienced today; and then (2) the larger question of passenger service levels. You seem to not know, or choose to ignore (1), and it’s obvious you don’t care about (2), even though walking distances are one of the most primary planning considerations for airport terminal design. 

You’re obviously in some sort of juvenile, one-way intellectual competition, Mr “I’m Right—You’ll See.” So let’s call this a draw. If there are articles after the new terminal opens citing walking distances as a major concern, I guess I’ll just lay a stake in the ground and say “You’ll just have to wait until it’s done to see that I was right all along.”

Edited October 19, 2021 by mattyt36

[Houston19514]

Rendering from Fentress Architects showing new Terminal D/E central processor ticketing hall with view into the international arrivals hall below (this rendering is not necessarily completely up-to-date, but it shows the layout that is going to be built.) And we can see the C East parking through the glass wall.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Houston19514

[Houston19514]

A couple more Fentress renderings, these are of the lower level, International Arrivals Hall, of the new Terminal D/E central processor, with a view upwards into the upper level ticketing hall.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Houston19514

[Houston19514]

A bunch of good information and renderings on HOK's website:

https://www.hok.com/projects/view/george-bush-intercontinental-airport-federal-inspection-services-building/

 

[mattyt36]

Well, Houston, I can tell this is extraordinarily important to you and I know *you think* you've answered the question.

For the sanity of ourselves and everyone else, I'll throw you a bone and give you the "win" so you can chase the bone instead of your tail.

There will, indeed, be a connection between the terminal and the garage.  As noted by me in this thread, er, when, September 21?  It's almost like you're talking about something completely, er, different.

But I understand from observation that chasing tails leads to dizziness, which leads to confusion, disorientation, and lack of spatial awareness, so no judgment here.  Even for those who don't need luggage carts . . .

Edited October 19, 2021 by mattyt36

[Houston19514]

Another good website for learning about and keeping track of the ongoing ITRP.

https://houstonairport-fis.com

Edited October 19, 2021 by Houston19514

[Houston19514]

A little more information from one of the other prime contractors:

http://www.austingilbane.com/docs/OUTREACH_KICKOFF_FINAL.pdf

[Amlaham]

Plans to Renovate Terminal A and replace the skyway train/ stations!!

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/neighborhood/humble-kingwood/article/Houston-Airport-Systems-Generation-Park-announce-16557078.php#photo-21620122

[Houston19514]

On 10/26/2021 at 2:29 PM, Amlaham said:

Plans to Renovate Terminal A and replace the skyway train/ stations!!

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/neighborhood/humble-kingwood/article/Houston-Airport-Systems-Generation-Park-announce-16557078.php#photo-21620122

 

The Airport apparently entered into a new 10-year agreement for the maintenance and operation of the Skyway train this past April.  https://www.railwaypro.com/wp/alstom-wins-huston-apm-operation-contract/

Edited September 20, 2022 by Houston19514

[mattyt36]

On 10/31/2021 at 12:41 PM, Houston19514 said:

There seems to be some confusion (imagine that; a Chronicle article getting things confused...)   I'm pretty certain the plan is to replace the Subway train, not the Skyway train.

The Airport apparently entered into a new 10-year agreement for the maintenance and operation of the Skyway train this past April.  https://www.railwaypro.com/wp/alstom-wins-huston-apm-operation-contract/

RFP confirms you’re wrong.

Color me NOT SURPRISED. (But I always appreciate your confidence.)

The original system was built by CO on the cheap in the mid-1990s and still uses the same train controls. Has been a problem for a long time. Surprisingly, the Subway has proven more resilient on its much more limited mission.

https://www.fly2houston.com/biz/opportunities/solicitations/2062

Edited November 1, 2021 by mattyt36

[kennyc05]

They should rebuild the subway like Atlantas airport.

[mattyt36]

2 hours ago, kennyc05 said:

They should rebuild the subway like Atlantas airport.

That would be way worse for many reasons. The biggest one being making the Subway post-security, nevermind the construction complexities. And then the level changes with the volume of connecting passengers (although let the record show I know Houston19514 has his I’m OK with Level Change merit badge along with his No Smart Carte merit badge).

But I do agree that it’d be nice if passengers could move as efficiently around IAH gates (not necessarily terminals) as they can in ATL.

[Tumbleweed_Tx]

I haven't been through ATL since 99... isn't the whole airport a secure area, unlike IAH?

[mattyt36]

30 minutes ago, Tumbleweed_Tx said:

I haven't been through ATL since 99... isn't the whole airport a secure area, unlike IAH?

There are two terminals at each end with 7 concourses in between, and yes, all of the area between the terminals and concourses, including the train and pedestrian mall, are secure.

(Bad night to be mentioning Atlanta. And the number 7.)

[citykid09]

 

[Specwriter]

9 hours ago, mattyt36 said:

 

(Bad night to be mentioning Atlanta. And the number 7.)

Agreed. My "baseball expert" nephew told me before the series started that Atlanta's pitching was its weak point. Hummm? I'll have to ask him about that. ☹️

[mattyt36]

10 minutes ago, Specwriter said:

Agreed. My "baseball expert" nephew told me before the series started that Atlanta's pitching was its weak point. Hummm? I'll have to ask him about that. ☹️

I heard the same.

OH WELL.

[Houston19514]

Photo from fly2houston.com

 

[wilcal]

Spirit launching IAH-MTY on June 22

https://ir.spirit.com/news-releases/news-details/2022/Spirit-Expands-in-Mexico-with-New-Daily-Nonstop-Flights-from-Monterrey-to-Austin--Houston/default.aspx

[Houston19514]

I didn't get any pictures but the remodel/refurbishment of the existing Terminal D concourse is very much underway.  They've started from the west end, where the flooring and ceilings have been removed from the areas of Gates 1 - around 6.  Appears they must be doing the work overnight and then cleaning up so the gates can be used during the day.

[Houston19514]

HAS did an update presentation to City Council Economic Development  Committee yesterday.  No big news in the presentation.  I thought the most interesting item was when the HAS COO mentioned, again, that in addition to the Airport’s expansion plans, United is working on plans to expand their gates; presumably, that would be the new north piers in Terminal B.

Here’s the presentation:

http://www.houstontx.gov/council/committees/econdev/20220526/ITRP_Economic_Development_Committee.pdf

Edited June 9, 2022 by Houston19514

[mattyt36]

5 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

 I thought the most interesting item was when the HAS COO mentioned, again, that in addition to the Airport’s explanation plans, United is working on plans to expand their gates; presumably, that would be the new north piers in Terminal B.

Well it‘s now or never on that one, as we’ve discussed before, unless they get an extension from the City.

[mattyt36]

Oh man, I can’t believe that sterile corridor will be permanent. 🤢

[wxman]

Welcome back, Air New Zealand!

The flight will be three times weekly. Does anybody know what it was before the pandemic? Was it daily?

Air New Zealand restarts flights from Houston after over 800 days (houstonchronicle.com)

 

What other Int'l flights are we still missing? Has IAH-SYD restarted yet?

[mattyt36]

3 hours ago, wxman said:

Welcome back, Air New Zealand!

The flight will be three times weekly. Does anybody know what it was before the pandemic? Was it daily?

Air New Zealand restarts flights from Houston after over 800 days (houstonchronicle.com)

 

What other Int'l flights are we still missing? Has IAH-SYD restarted yet?

It was daily.

SYD is scheduled to return in October, I believe.

[editor]

I just told my wife about these flights, and the consensus is, "It's nice to live someplace where you can go someplace."

I see the flight to New Zealand is 15 hours.  Anyone know the length to Sydney?

[wxman]

6 minutes ago, editor said:

I just told my wife about these flights, and the consensus is, "It's nice to live someplace where you can go someplace."

I see the flight to New Zealand is 15 hours.  Anyone know the length to Sydney?

It’s 17.5 hours. I’ve taken that flight and it’s every bit that long nearly to the minute.

Edited June 29, 2022 by wxman

[editor]

1 hour ago, wxman said:

It’s 17.5 hours. I’ve taken that flight and it’s every bit that long nearly to the minute.

Sounds dreadful.  I think the longest flight I've taken was 15 hours.

Was it bad in coach, or bad in business class?  I have a third of a million frequent flyer miles to burn.

[corbs315]

I took it the day COVID was officially declared a pandemic (3/11/20). Was in coach but no one else in my row...or the row in front of me...or behind me. Not bad!!

Edited June 30, 2022 by corbs315

[Ross]

3 hours ago, editor said:

Sounds dreadful.  I think the longest flight I've taken was 15 hours.

Was it bad in coach, or bad in business class?  I have a third of a million frequent flyer miles to burn.

I've flown 12 hours in coach, and it's survivable. I've done 15 or so in business class, and that was fine. I flew Houston-Doha multiple times in business and it was great. Flying Emirates from Dubai to Sydney and then Melbourne to Dubai, wasn't nearly as much fun. A lot of that was the crappy way Emirates seats worked.

Air New Zealand from LAX to Auckland wasn't bad at all in coach, but that was when the volcano in Iceland screwed up air travel from Europe, and all of the passengers from London to LAX were missing. Flight was about 1/3 full, so I was able to lay down across seats. LAX to Auckland is 11 or 12 hours, I think.

[editor]

12 hours ago, Ross said:

I've flown 12 hours in coach, and it's survivable. I've done 15 or so in business class, and that was fine. I flew Houston-Doha multiple times in business and it was great. Flying Emirates from Dubai to Sydney and then Melbourne to Dubai, wasn't nearly as much fun. A lot of that was the crappy way Emirates seats worked.

Air New Zealand from LAX to Auckland wasn't bad at all in coach, but that was when the volcano in Iceland screwed up air travel from Europe, and all of the passengers from London to LAX were missing. Flight was about 1/3 full, so I was able to lay down across seats. LAX to Auckland is 11 or 12 hours, I think.

I've done 13- and 15-hour runs in coach, but that was when I was younger.  At my age, I don't think I could handle it anymore.  Once on a flight from San Francisco to Tokyo on JAL, I got upgraded to Business and was in one of those reclining egg pods.  It was a whole different world. 

One flight I was on from Los Angeles to Tokyo, there was a 20-something waif across the aisle from me.  She didn't handle the trip well.  She curled up in the seat, put the blanket over her head, and stayed like that until we landed.   I felt bad for her.

[rechlin]

I've done the Air New Zealand flight from Houston in coach.  It's really not that bad, but I've been on some other long non-stops in coach too so maybe I'm used to it (Houston-Beijing, Houston-Dubai, Newark-Mumbai).  They had an unusual option where 2 people could buy 3 coach seats in select rows and basically get a lie-flat bed for two out of it, which I've not seen on any other airline.  I didn't do that (I was flying solo), but if I went again I'd probably take advantage of that for the 15 hour flight, if they are still doing it.

[Houston19514]

Photo of Terminal D West Pier construction posted by HAS June 29 2022.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Houston19514