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2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Obama (D-IL) vs. McCain (R-AZ)

Next United States President  

107 members have voted

  1. 1. Pick One

    • Barack Obama
      54
    • John McCain
      46
    • Other
      7


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McCain is NOT a conservative.

Hence...why I am not enamored with the guy. But, having him as Pres is better than having a Marxist run the country!

You chose to label Obama as Marxist because...

1) you will get a tax cut

2) you think CEOs are underpaid

3) Fox News intertwined Obama and Marxism and said both are scary and bad

Obama may have acknowledged the fact that there is an unacceptable divide between the rich and poor in this country, and his tax plan is based on continuing the survival of the middle class. But this is a far cry from Marxism. If you're going to throw the term Marxist around so lazily, we might as well call McCain a Marxist too for his plan to have the government buy out bad mortgages.

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And? This guys is apparently makes a lot of money.
apparently? how much does he make? not sure i like the government deciding how much i can make. Edited by musicman

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So what about Obama's stance on the economy do you disagree with? Is it his focus on middle class tax relief? I just have to ask because the standard conservative lie is that he will raise taxes on the middle class.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/

Regarding gay rights, Obama has called for the repeal of 'don't ask don't tell,' has co-sponsored legislation on hate crimes to include sexual orientation, supports adding sexual orientation to the employment non-discrimiation act, and supports gay and lesbian adoption.

Granted, he supports civil unions and not gay marriage, but ask yourself, what has McCain done on behalf of the gay community, or civil rights for that matter?

McCain voted against making MLK a holiday in 1983; he thinks don't ask don't tell is working just fine, and he supports the Proposition 8 in California to ban gay marriage (Obama opposes the ban). McCain also voted against extending hate crimes to include sexual orientation, voted against prohibiting job discrimination based upon sexual orientation, and he believes gay marriage should be left to the states.

And I apologize for demonizing an entire political party, but you have to realize that a large part of the Republican base has shifted to the religious right since the Newt Gingrich "Republican Revolution" in 1994. G.W. Bush has only pushed it further into the evangelicals by courting them into his base. These folks have pushed out or scared away many of the traditional fiscal conservatives that may have been more forgiving on social issues, are the religions folks are not about to allow any civil rights for gays. The foundation of their political beliefs system is largely to stop abortion and lock gays into the closet with no rights and no respect.

For all their faults, the Democrats are generally in favor of equal rights for gays, with a few exceptions in the more conservative districts. They do have to make compromises sometimes, such as the civil unions being left to the states. Unfortunately, this is politically necessary in this country. If Obama pushed strongly for a national gay marriage law, it would likely consume his Presidency. I think the gradual fight for individual rights is necessary at this time, and one step at a time, society will come around to doing what's right.

I read this, been to his site, so I know what he is for. I made my point already.

Edited by Montrose1100

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I read this, been to his site, so I know what he is for. I made my point already.

Okay, well you seemed to be basing your opinions on fallacies. Sorry for trying to help.

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I read this, been to his site, so I know what he is for. I made my point already.

But you didn't make a point. You say you don't like his stance on taxes, then you misquote his position. You say he wants to leave civil unions to the states, but that isn't what Obama has said. He wants federal recognition for civil unions and he wants gay marriage left to the states.

How can you be against him when you don't know who he is?

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But you didn't make a point. You say you don't like his stance on taxes, then you misquote his position. You say he wants to leave civil unions to the states, but that isn't what Obama has said. He wants federal recognition for civil unions and he wants gay marriage left to the states.

How can you be against him when you don't know who he is?

I must be blind as well as crazy. I'm sorry Memebag & Barracuda, I don't mean to get upset. It just feels like every time I discuss something, I paraphrase what I've read and then it comes out not making sense. I'm frustrated. I will say no more on this topic.

Edited by Montrose1100

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If the owners of those businesses are netting 250K+ a year, in personal income... PAY UP. If you re-invest 200K/year back into the business, so you net 50K/year - different story.

Finally.

Why is it that most Americans overhype everything?

The average small business isn't producing that many $250,000aires.

My biz has sales of about $250,000 a year. But, by the time I've finished paying the rent, insurance, production costs, salaries, shipping costs, advertising costs, trade show exhibitor costs, web costs, and basic utilities, I barely have enough to buy myself a slurpee. And I consider myself a lucky one since I've been able to hang on rather than close up shop like so many other small biz owners I know.

However, these past 3 months have been bleak. Nobody is spending money and we are hitting our slow time of year. My biggest concern isn't about taxes, it's about SURVIVAL.

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But you didn't make a point. You say you don't like his stance on taxes, then you misquote his position. You say he wants to leave civil unions to the states, but that isn't what Obama has said. He wants federal recognition for civil unions and he wants gay marriage left to the states.

How can you be against him when you don't know who he is?

Can you really blame him?

I mean, who is the real Barack Obama? Does anyone really know?

:)

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Can you really blame him?

I mean, who is the real Barack Obama? Does anyone really know?

:)

Well, one clue is to look at his friends and associates over the years. That speaks volumes, but even that alone should not be the only factor. There's plenty that comes out of his mouth that is worthy enough of opposition.

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You chose to label Obama as Marxist because...

1) you will get a tax cut

2) you think CEOs are underpaid

3) Fox News intertwined Obama and Marxism and said both are scary and bad

Obama may have acknowledged the fact that there is an unacceptable divide between the rich and poor in this country, and his tax plan is based on continuing the survival of the middle class. But this is a far cry from Marxism. If you're going to throw the term Marxist around so lazily, we might as well call McCain a Marxist too for his plan to have the government buy out bad mortgages.

Point 1: There's NO WAY he can have all those programs he wants and NOT raise taxes on the middle class. That's what Democrats do. Democrats and taxes go together like peanut butter and jelly and like French fries and ketchup. But Obama is (in part) a Marxist because he believes in "take from the rich and give to the poor". Redistribution of wealth is a symptom of Marxism. I want either a flat tax or a consumption tax. Obama doesn't. He's all about the taxes and the wasteful government programs and handouts. AND -- punishing the financially successful. He's not for CUTTING taxes or government. He's for increasing BOTH -- because you increase one without increasing the other!

Point 2: I never said CEOs are underpaid. However, I DO believe in the capitalist system -- and an unencumbered capitalist system with very little government intervention. Government intervention by Democrats such as Chuck Schumer and Barney Frank (Obama's buddies) are, in part, what caused the current financial crisis. We had a situation where the race card was played and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were basically erm...strongly persuaded to provide risky loans to people who had neither the means nor wherewithal to pay back these loans. On top of that, they insisted on little to no oversight! Why? Because -- you guessed it -- that TOO would be "racist" or showing preference. So, they defaulted and the rest is history. These are things Obama also thought was a good idea. So, Schumer...Frank...Obama...Pelosi. All the same scum. Back to capitalism: Everyone is entitled to make whatever they can honestly and ethically make through hard work and dedication to their careers -- CEOs down to the "little man". This is the opposite of what Obama believes.

Point 3: Irrelevant. My news sources are predominantly (although not restricted to) online and provided from many varied sources. I tend to weigh all sites that discuss the topic at hand and if there is a consensus and credible data/facts that support a position then I tend to accept it based on the overwhelming evidence provided. Rather than emotion and feel-good "change and hope", I tend to rely on reason and facts to support a position.

Your final para: There will always always always be those with and without. To take from those who have (who have EARNED what they have) and give it to the so-called poor as handouts IS Marxism. Attempts by a government to "level the playing field" is unmistakably Marxism. It's simply not the government's JOB or responsibility or RIGHT. Finally, how many successful people has the government ever created through wealth redistribution? Show me ONE!

Did this tactic work in Russia? I don't think so. The misery was spread around. Except for the proletariat. THEY had it good. Well, if Obama's plan becomes reality the Democrat proletariat in DC will doing well while the rest of us get screwed!

And again, the more power one gives the government, the more it will TAKE.

There is nothing better than PERSONAL responsibility and LIMITED government intrusion into our lives. Social engineering of the Obama variety IS intrusion...and Marxism. Obama has professed to have enjoyed spending time with his Marxist friends and has been thoroughly indoctrinated in this ideology, although he tries mightily (for now) to mask this indoctrination. Aside from the economic Marxism he believes in, there is also the issue of how he VIEWS this country and his plans for the military.

Obama believes we should unilaterally disarm the military (particularly nuclear disarmament). At a time when our enemies around the world are on the march, this is EXTREMELY dangerous. And to think one can sit down with these enemies and talk them into liking us is absurd. And it's been proven to be absurd historically. Most recently when Clinton/Madeleine Albright/Bush have tried negotiating with North Korea. A resounding success THAT has been. <_<

Again, the friends he keeps reveals much. These are people who hate the ideal of what America has been.

And, I don't think the Obama "acorn" falls far from the Marxist tree.

He is what he is -- a dangerous person. A dangerous naieve little Marxist.

I don't know what else to say. Although there is much, much, more I could say because there is so much about this guy that should be of concern to anyone who believes in the free Capitalist market, national security/sovereignty and basic freedoms.

Dis

Edited by Disastro

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Homeownership in general is subsidized top to bottom in this country (including the freeways in between). That should be pretty obvious now, if it isn't already.

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Point 1: There's NO WAY he can have all those programs he wants and NOT raise taxes on the middle class. That's what Democrats do. Democrats and taxes go together like peanut butter and jelly and like French fries and ketchup. But Obama is (in part) a Marxist because he believes in "take from the rich and give to the poor". Redistribution of wealth is a symptom of Marxism. I want either a flat tax or a consumption tax. Obama doesn't. He's all about the taxes and the wasteful government programs and handouts. AND -- punishing the financially successful. He's not for CUTTING taxes or government. He's for increasing BOTH -- because you increase one without increasing the other!

Point 2: I never said CEOs are underpaid. However, I DO believe in the capitalist system -- and an unencumbered capitalist system with very little government intervention. Government intervention by Democrats such as Chuck Schumer and Barney Frank (Obama's buddies) are, in part, what caused the current financial crisis. We had a situation where the race card was played and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were basically erm...strongly persuaded to provide risky loans to people who had neither the means nor wherewithal to pay back these loans. On top of that, they insisted on little to no oversight! Why? Because -- you guessed it -- that TOO would be "racist" or showing preference. So, they defaulted and the rest is history. These are things Obama also thought was a good idea. So, Schumer...Frank...Obama...Pelosi. All the same scum. Back to capitalism: Everyone is entitled to make whatever they can honestly and ethically make through hard work and dedication to their careers -- CEOs down to the "little man". This is the opposite of what Obama believes.

Point 3: Irrelevant. My news sources are predominantly (although not restricted to) online and provided from many varied sources. I tend to weigh all sites that discuss the topic at hand and if there is a consensus and credible data/facts that support a position then I tend to accept it based on the overwhelming evidence provided. Rather than emotion and feel-good "change and hope", I tend to rely on reason and facts to support a position.

Your final para: There will always always always be those with and without. To take from those who have (who have EARNED what they have) and give it to the so-called poor as handouts IS Marxism. Attempts by a government to "level the playing field" is unmistakably Marxism. It's simply not the government's JOB or responsibility or RIGHT. Finally, how many successful people has the government ever created through wealth redistribution? Show me ONE!

Did this tactic work in Russia? I don't think so. The misery was spread around. Except for the proletariat. THEY had it good. Well, if Obama's plan becomes reality the Democrat proletariat in DC will doing well while the rest of us get screwed!

And again, the more power one gives the government, the more it will TAKE.

There is nothing better than PERSONAL responsibility and LIMITED government intrusion into our lives. Social engineering of the Obama variety IS intrusion...and Marxism. Obama has professed to have enjoyed spending time with his Marxist friends and has been thoroughly indoctrinated in this ideology, although he tries mightily (for now) to mask this indoctrination. Aside from the economic Marxism he believes in, there is also the issue of how he VIEWS this country and his plans for the military.

Obama believes we should unilaterally disarm the military (particularly nuclear disarmament). At a time when our enemies around the world are on the march, this is EXTREMELY dangerous. And to think one can sit down with these enemies and talk them into liking us is absurd. And it's been proven to be absurd historically. Most recently when Clinton/Madeleine Albright/Bush have tried negotiating with North Korea. A resounding success THAT has been. <_<

Again, the friends he keeps reveals much. These are people who hate the ideal of what America has been.

And, I don't think the Obama "acorn" falls far from the Marxist tree.

He is what he is -- a dangerous person. A dangerous naieve little Marxist.

I don't know what else to say. Although there is much, much, more I could say because there is so much about this guy that should be of concern to anyone who believes in the free Capitalist market, national security/sovereignty and basic freedoms.

Dis

This post is a disaster.

You preach about personal responsibility and yet you support a regime (McCain/Palin) that wants to continue the dangerous pattern of spending money it doesn't have? The last 8 years have been like a teenager in college who gets his/her first credit card and doesn't understand how it works. They just buy everything from drinks on a night out to a new tapestry for their dorm room. Then the bill comes...And that doesn't even mention the fact that said student started two wars and declared the right to start more at any given time.

It's also nice to see you end with an 'acorn" reference. It came out yesterday that McCain PROUDLY spoke at an acorn sponsored event in 2006. Seems as if McCain has no problem hanging out with the same people.

As for the true danger to our government and things that would make the Founding Fathers gag, look no further than the erosion of checks and balances we've seen under this current administration. Then look to the VP debate when Palin states she wants to expand the powers of the vice president's office so that it has more powers in the congressional realm. That is a true disrespect for the Constitution and exhibits a clear misunderstanding of the document. That is the real danger.

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This post is a disaster.

You preach about personal responsibility and yet you support a regime (McCain/Palin) that wants to continue the dangerous pattern of spending money it doesn't have? The last 8 years have been like a teenager in college who gets his/her first credit card and doesn't understand how it works. They just buy everything from drinks on a night out to a new tapestry for their dorm room. Then the bill comes...And that doesn't even mention the fact that said student started two wars and declared the right to start more at any given time.

It's also nice to see you end with an 'acorn" reference. It came out yesterday that McCain PROUDLY spoke at an acorn sponsored event in 2006. Seems as if McCain has no problem hanging out with the same people.

As for the true danger to our government and things that would make the Founding Fathers gag, look no further than the erosion of checks and balances we've seen under this current administration. Then look to the VP debate when Palin states she wants to expand the powers of the vice president's office so that it has more powers in the congressional realm. That is a true disrespect for the Constitution and exhibits a clear misunderstanding of the document. That is the real danger.

In as much as the idea of Palin as Veep nauseates me, please don't hold her down on that fact, she just doesn't know what she's talking about. She isn't coached on VP powers yet so she uttered nonsense.

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You hear that mister teacher, firefighter, and police officer?

Civil Service workers are hardly what I am referring to. Let's take a look at those on Welfare, and Illegals. I would happily pay twice the tax I do now if it all went to Teachers, Firefighters and Policemen. You hear that you wonderful civil service folks.

You hear that mister teacher, firefighter, and police officer?

Civil Service workers are hardly what I am referring to. Let's take a look at those on Welfare, and Illegals. I would happily pay twice the tax I do now if it all went to Teachers, Firefighters and Policemen. You hear that you wonderful civil service folks. Just so y'all know Trae knew what I meant also, but he prefers to twist things.

Red, the statement IS true, or are you calling the IRS liars ? I even posted the link to show you. Besides, it was for Meme to answer, not you.

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Civil Service workers are hardly what I am referring to. Let's take a look at those on Welfare, and Illegals. I would happily pay twice the tax I do now if it all went to Teachers, Firefighters and Policemen. You hear that you wonderful civil service folks.

Civil Service workers are hardly what I am referring to. Let's take a look at those on Welfare, and Illegals. I would happily pay twice the tax I do now if it all went to Teachers, Firefighters and Policemen. You hear that you wonderful civil service folks. Just so y'all know Trae knew what I meant also, but he prefers to twist things.

I actually didn't know what you meant, but since you're talking about welfare, I guess I should tell my cousin Karen what you're saying. Raising two kids alone in an apartment in Lake Charles. Welfare is pretty much the only way her kids eat. Working at Walmart doesn't pay too much. There are so many other examples like this. There are also those that abuse the welfare system. I guess you were trying to lump all of those who abuse the welfare system as the only ones who use it. There are bad teachers and cops you know...

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Red, the statement IS true, or are you calling the IRS liars ? I even posted the link to show you. Besides, it was for Meme to answer, not you.

What statement are you refering to?

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CNN now reporting that VA is polling for Obama. Wow.

John McCain's campaign:

...or Bernake's/Paulson's latest rescue efforts. (source: tickerforum.org)

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Vote McCain. SAVE JIMMY THE FRY GUY!!!" :lol:

Turns out, this is not entirely correct. It is JOE THE PLUMBER!

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Turns out, this is not entirely correct. It is JOE THE PLUMBER!

Apparently Joe is a great plumber. He's booked solid, 2000 hours a year at over $125/hour. What is his secret?

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McCain was acting McCrazyTrain.

Obama offers a real plan for health care. He offers some solid ideas on the economy and clearly will surround himself with capable people. He also offers ideas for education that are far superior to just vouchers. I also appreciated his candor with regards to the abortion issues/Supreme Court nominations line of questioning. He is the superior candidate and the polls are starting to clearly show that fact.

I am dumbfounded by McCain. Tonight's performance was a clear pep-rally for the base. The problem is that base is way too small to win a national election even with today's ruling that might throw out 600,000 newly registered voters in Ohio due to only 1/3rd of those having some database matching errors (meaning 400,000 valid new voters might be forced to vote on provisional ballots).

When McCain was commenting about women's "health" with regards to late-term abortions my draw dropped. Was he REALLY saying that "health" is a trumped up term by women and doctors to strike up the abortion mills? And he wonders why women everywhere aren't falling all over him for picking Palin...

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Turns out, this is not entirely correct. It is JOE THE PLUMBER!

No, Joe will have to fire his nephew apprentice, Vinny, if he intends to keep the same profit margin under Obama's tax hike. Just like the MickeyD's owner will cut Jimmy's job.

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McCain was acting McCrazyTrain.

Obama offers a real plan for health care. He offers some solid ideas on the economy and clearly will surround himself with capable people. He also offers ideas for education that are far superior to just vouchers. I also appreciated his candor with regards to the abortion issues/Supreme Court nominations line of questioning. He is the superior candidate and the polls are starting to clearly show that fact.

I am dumbfounded by McCain. Tonight's performance was a clear pep-rally for the base. The problem is that base is way too small to win a national election even with today's ruling that might throw out 600,000 newly registered voters in Ohio due to only 1/3rd of those having some database matching errors (meaning 400,000 valid new voters might be forced to vote on provisional ballots).

When McCain was commenting about women's "health" with regards to late-term abortions my draw dropped. Was he REALLY saying that "health" is a trumped up term by women and doctors to strike up the abortion mills? And he wonders why women everywhere aren't falling all over him for picking Palin...

You really have no clue what Obama's "healthcare plan" would do to the taxpayers if his "pre-existing condition" insurance coverage is enacted, do you ? There is a reason why your Allstate rep. wants to look at your car before giving you comp. and collision.

Edited by TJones

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No, Joe will have to fire his nephew apprentice, Vinny, if he intends to keep the same profit margin under Obama's tax hike. Just like the MickeyD's owner will cut Jimmy's job.

I never knew small business owners were such greedy selfish bastards. Joe would fire his nephew over $2400? He seemed like a decent guy on TV.

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Every time heard Joe the Plumber's name on either side, I was turned off.

Guess you're voting Obama then. McCain brought him up 21 times to Obama's 5.

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mccainassgrab.jpg

What the hell is going on here? :lol:

Obama knew he lost the debate so he decided to "Gas" McCain.

As soon as I saw McCain make that face last night, I turned to my wife and said, why on Earth would he make an idiot move like that ??? There is your "Gaffe" on the night folks.

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You really have no clue what Obama's "healthcare plan" would do to the taxpayers if his "pre-existing condition" insurance coverage is enacted, do you ? There is a reason why your Allstate rep. wants to look at your car before giving you comp. and collision.

Funny thing is, I acually DO know what his plan would do because it is based on the Massachusetts model that was drawn up by MITT ROMNEY and implemented by Deval Patrick.

I now enjoy health insurance that is way more affordable than it was before. I was able to CHOOSE a plan that works for me and my small business was exempted because I only have 3 total employees. That said, all of my employees are now able to afford plans that work for them.

As for the insurance companies, if they drastically raise prices because they have to cover pre-existing conditions, then they will no longer be part of the plan. It's really that simple... have access to MILLIONS OF PEOPLE paying into the system or get blocked out of it. Which choice do you think they'll make?

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I actually think McCain won the debate last night. He finally got a few hit points in. Letting Obama talk over him the first two debates obviously wasn't a winning strategy. Obama really came off like somebody you'd like to take a law school class from but not really the governing type.

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No, Joe will have to fire his nephew apprentice, Vinny, if he intends to keep the same profit margin under Obama's tax hike. Just like the MickeyD's owner will cut Jimmy's job.

Funny thing is, Joe the plumber isn't a registered or licensed plumber according to the Toledo Blade newspaper. They checked records in Ohio and Michigan (Toledo is close to the border) and found nothing...

http://www.toledoblade.com

Uh-oh. He's also got a lean on his property for unpaid property taxes. Seems he's got more to worry about than whether or not an unregistered and unlicensed plumber can buy a plumbing business.

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I never knew small business owners were such greedy selfish bastards. Joe would fire his nephew over $2400? He seemed like a decent guy on TV.

Actually his increase would be less than $900. Say it isn't so, Joe!

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Funny thing is, Joe the plumber isn't a registered or licensed plumber according to the Toledo Blade newspaper. They checked records in Ohio and Michigan (Toledo is close to the border) and found nothing...

http://www.toledoblade.com

Uh-oh. He's also got a lean on his property for unpaid property taxes. Seems he's got more to worry about than whether or not an unregistered and unlicensed plumber can buy a plumbing business.

They also listed on CNN that a license isn't required in that state. Whatever.

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Funny thing is, Joe the plumber isn't a registered or licensed plumber according to the Toledo Blade newspaper. They checked records in Ohio and Michigan (Toledo is close to the border) and found nothing...

http://www.toledoblade.com

Uh-oh. He's also got a lean on his property for unpaid property taxes. Seems he's got more to worry about than whether or not an unregistered and unlicensed plumber can buy a plumbing business.

Joe doesn't need a license in his name, the actual owner of the company he works for has one, so what's your point ?

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Joe doesn't need a license in his name, the actual owner of the company he works for has one, so what's your point ?

"Mr. Wurzelbacher said he works under Al Newell's license, but according to Ohio building regulations, he must maintain his own license to do plumbing work."

"He is also not registered to operate as a plumber in Ohio, which means he's not a plumber."

That's my point. Joe the Plumber isn't really a plumber.

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You know, I like ol' Joe. He seems to be handling his 15 minutes well. But, the poor guy seems to be trying to contort himself to fit into the GOP mold, rather than accept facts. He complained about paying more taxes if he were lucky enough someday to make more than $250,000. The fact that Obama's proposed increase would only be 3.6% of the income above $250,000 seemed lost on him. Yet, later, when told he would receive a tax cut under Obama's tax plan, he said he wouldn't want it. Well, does he want to pay more taxes or doesn't he? He seems to fall into that GOP group that refuses to do math. He, like McCain, wants no more taxes for the rich, and no more for the middle class. There are tax cuts for corporations, small businesses, and trust fund babies. But, there are no corresponding spending cuts, either. He says he'll go after that $18 Billion in earmarks, but we'll still have the $200 Billion we spend in Iraq, and the $1.8 TRILLION spent juicing the economy.

I am afraid Joe, like many other Americans who cannot (or will not) do math, may be in for a rude awakening someday.

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He seems to fall into that GOP group that refuses to do math.

He's not Joe the Mathematician, Red! He's full of hope! He's so full of hope that he will vote as if he had a much larger income than he really does. I think that hope may be related to how Americans spend...

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McCain and Obama both appeared at the Al Smith dinner in New York.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/16/t...a_n_135454.html

Frankly, I thought McCain won this debate. Too bad no one saw this one. :D

Some of the better lines...

From McCain:

"Maverick I can do but messiah is above my paygrade."

He also made light of the controversy surrounding his "that one" comment at the second debate when he said that it was simply his pet name for Obama. "He doesn't mind at all. In fact, he has given me the pet name, 'George Bush.'

From Obama:

"I was not born in a manger. I was actually born on Krypton. I was sent here by my father Jorel to save the planet Earth... Many of you know that I got my name from my father. "Barack" is Swahili for "That one." I got my middle name from somebody who obviously didn't realize I would run for president."

"Fox News accused me of fathering two African-American children in wedlock."

"While the housing crisis has been hard on all of us, we must keep in mind it has been eight times harder on John McCain."

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Red, MSNBC ran the clips of McCain and Obama during the Rachel Maddow show. They were both pretty good, especially McCain's ending where he constructed a VERY HIGH BAR for Obama who performed last.

My favorite Obama quip was about how McCain and Al Smith used to have some great times back in the days before Prohibition.

I missed quite a bit because I was flipping back and forth between MSNBC, the Red Sox game, and TCU/BYU.

Other good Obama lines included;

On the Waldorf Astoria: "They tell me, from the doorstep, you can see all the way to the Russian Tea Room!"

On Rudy Guliani: "I have never, not once, put lipstick on a pig. Or a pit bull. Or myself. Rudy Guliani, that's one for you. I mean... who would have thought that a cross-dressing mayor from New York City would have a tough time winning the Republican nomination. It's shocking. That was a tough primary you had there, John."

Edited by KinkaidAlum

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McCain took this one. From an AP story:

McCain joked that Democrats had already begun attacking Joe the Plumber, the Ohio man whom he referred to in Wednesday night's debate, and claimed "that this honest, hardworking small businessman could not possibly have enough income to face a tax increase under the Obama plan."

"What they don't know is that Joe the Plumber recently signed a very lucrative contract with a wealthy couple to handle all the work on all seven of their houses," McCain said, drawing laughter with the reference to his property holdings.

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18 days until election day... 18 days until we can finally break out of the darkness we've lived under for the past 8 years... 18 days...

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18 days until election day... 18 days until we can finally break out of the darkness we've lived under for the past 8 years... 18 days...

not sure if we're breaking out of the darkness.

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Some random thoughts as I read the Chron this morning:

Obama's tax plan cuts taxes on ~81% of Americans, not 95%.

The thing about "100% of McCain's ads being negative" is not true. This one did not even pass the intuition test, since how could that even possibly be true? I didn't like it since both bringing up that "stat" and the way Obama mentioned it had a definite malingering quality that I did not like at all.

I think "Joe the Plumber" is/was a McCain plant.

not sure if we're breaking out of the darkness.

It really sucks for whoever gets to be president next. They get to inherit a really bad recession and a war. They're either going to have to raise taxes or put the country deeper into debt. The McCain concept of making things easier on corporations as a means to stimulating job creation and thus tax revenue doesn't seem like it can work right now. The example he keeps bringing up -- Ireland -- is not a good one since Ireland was the first country into the eurozone to go into recession. Why would we want to follow that model?

Edited by N Judah

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Is it just me or do people just not seem to excited about this election. I'm not seeing as many candidate bumper stickers or yard signs as I have in past elections. I wonder if it's because to many people feel as I do, that BOTH candidates suck and the USA is screwed either way?

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Is it just me or do people just not seem to excited about this election. I'm not seeing as many candidate bumper stickers or yard signs as I have in past elections. I wonder if it's because to many people feel as I do, that BOTH candidates suck and the USA is screwed either way?

I can tell you one reason you aren't seeing yard signs. They get stolen. Ours was gone less than 48 hours after we put it out. My friend has hers stolen 3 times.

Very mature behavior, isn't it?

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Is it just me or do people just not seem to excited about this election. I'm not seeing as many candidate bumper stickers or yard signs as I have in past elections. I wonder if it's because to many people feel as I do, that BOTH candidates suck and the USA is screwed either way?

It's just you. I think almost all of the excited people are those who are tired of Bush and/or hopeful about Obama. Maybe you're just visiting neighborhoods with lots of Bush and/or McCain supporters.

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It's just you. I think almost all of the excited people are those who are tired of Bush and/or hopeful about Obama. Maybe you're just visiting neighborhoods with lots of Bush and/or McCain supporters.

Guess I'm just dreaming. Kind of like Obama supporters.

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I can tell you one reason you aren't seeing yard signs. They get stolen. Ours was gone less than 48 hours after we put it out. My friend has hers stolen 3 times.

Very mature behavior, isn't it?

I had to take my girlfriend's Obama bumper sticker off of her car because she was being harassed on the road by other drivers.

"Beware of those in whom the will to punish is strong"

-Nietzsche

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