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2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Obama (D-IL) vs. McCain (R-AZ)

Next United States President  

107 members have voted

  1. 1. Pick One

    • Barack Obama
      54
    • John McCain
      46
    • Other
      7


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Sounds just like me. He's for gay rights, and that really appealed to me... (Well so did Hillary Clinton, but I think I would move overseas if she became president). I'm just fed up of people telling me their parents sent them to a "Mercy House" or a therapist or psyc. ward because their parents found out their gay... Like its a mental disease. And that makes me sick.

Wait...are you talking about Mike Huckabee? He's no friend to gay rights. He warned that gay marriage threatens civilization, called homosexuality sinful, and suggested that homosexuality could "pose a dangerous public health risk."

Huckabee even once suggested that AIDS patients should be quarantined. Like I said, he has massive amounts of craziness hidden behind that easy-going and amiable facade.

http://www.gaynewswatch.com/Page.cfm?PageID=22&SID=3941

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1207/7270.html

http://www.nysun.com/national/huckabee-pus...patients/67730/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/08/h...ar_n_75924.html

P.S. - Obama isn't perfect on issues related to gay rights, but he's a lot more progressive than McCain.

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Wait...are you talking about Mike Huckabee? He's no friend to gay rights. He warned that gay marriage threatens civilization, called homosexuality sinful, and suggested that homosexuality could "pose a dangerous public health risk."

Huckabee even once suggested that AIDS patients should be quarantined. Like I said, he has massive amounts of craziness hidden behind that easy-going and amiable facade.

http://www.gaynewswatch.com/Page.cfm?PageID=22&SID=3941

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1207/7270.html

http://www.nysun.com/national/huckabee-pus...patients/67730/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/08/h...ar_n_75924.html

P.S. - Obama isn't perfect on issues related to gay rights, but he's a lot more progressive than McCain.

I could have sworn...

But I'm more worried about the Economy then my rights. My country before me. I'd rather be a rich 2nd class citizen, then a poor one.

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In case someone hasn't read the economic plans for both canidates, here they are:

Good points in both of them, enjoy the read.

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Is anyone else wondering about the bad judgement of bringing your daughters, including the 7 year old, to Philadelphia to drop the puck at a Flyers game? I actually feel bad for the girls, especially the young one. She can't possibly grasp why people do not like her mother. Additionally, shouldn't they be in school? They are everywhere with her and it's not like it's an easy trip back home after a long weekend.

Why not? Sara is enjoying her short lived fame. After this election, you might rarely hear from her ever again.

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I could have sworn...

But I'm more worried about the Economy then my rights. My country before me. I'd rather be a rich 2nd class citizen, then a poor one.

So why do you believe Obama would be bad for the economy? Pretax income has been higher across the board under Democratic presidents. That leads to higher tax revenues, which helps local governments to sustain lower rates.

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So why do you believe Obama would be bad for the economy? Pretax income has been higher across the board under Democratic presidents. That leads to higher tax revenues, which helps local governments to sustain lower rates.

Not to mention McCain's stated ignorance of economic matters, and his illogical actions regarding the current crisis. Claiming you are worried about the economy, then stating the least economy minded candidate makes no sense whatsoever. Granted, neither candidate has been stellar, but McCain has been the worst.

There must be some unstated reason, because all of your stated ones seem backwards.

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So why do you believe Obama would be bad for the economy? Pretax income has been higher across the board under Democratic presidents. That leads to higher tax revenues, which helps local governments to sustain lower rates.

Yeah, because all that matters is that a random person with a (D) attached to the end of their name control one branch of government. It does not matter who is elected to congress, who's on the supreme court, who controls the Federal Reserve, or whether any of these aspects of government were previously administered by different people or controlled by different parties. :rolleyes:

Oh, and that the economy began to falter in the last part of Clinton's term...surely that was only driven by the market expectations that a Republican would drive the economy into the ground. It had absolutely nothing to do with irrational exuberance in a particular sector. :wacko:

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Sounds just like me. He's for gay rights, and that really appealed to me... (Well so did Hillary Clinton, but I think I would move overseas if she became president). I'm just fed up of people telling me their parents sent them to a "Mercy House" or a therapist or psyc. ward because their parents found out their gay... Like its a mental disease. And that makes me sick.

You are confusing me with this.

You are looking to the Republican Party to help you with gay rights?

You really should google search some information about the Republican Party's stance on gay rights. Hell, just read the Texas Republican Party platform and you'll see where the parents that send their kids to "ex-gay" ministries are getting their information.

You're in college now. There's no reason for you to be confusing these issues.

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I know but my voice can't be heard in this state, let alone in the whole country.

Well, To be honest, I wish Huckabee was a candidate. I'm just fed up of Palin, and McCain is really old... And I really hate Palin. I'm sure shes a swell gal in person, but as Vice President no way... and Obama? no thanks.

Montrose, I am right there with you, but now it is a matter of OUR votes being able to put in the lesser of two evils. Just think of it that way, and your voice IS being heard.

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So why do you believe Obama would be bad for the economy? Pretax income has been higher across the board under Democratic presidents. That leads to higher tax revenues, which helps local governments to sustain lower rates.

Because the Democrats told the banks to loan to everyone, without the bank to have some collateral like house titles... So the Banks eventually got greedy and thats why we're in this mess.

Not to mention McCain's stated ignorance of economic matters, and his illogical actions regarding the current crisis. Claiming you are worried about the economy, then stating the least economy minded candidate makes no sense whatsoever. Granted, neither candidate has been stellar, but McCain has been the worst.

There must be some unstated reason, because all of your stated ones seem backwards.

Well I'm not relying just on McCain to fix our problems, His staff and a lot of people in Washington will help. What other reasons could I have? Why would I waste my, and everyone else's time?

Oh, and that the economy began to falter in the last part of Clinton's term...surely that was only driven by the market expectations that a Republican would drive the economy into the ground. It had absolutely nothing to do with irrational exuberance in a particular sector. :wacko:

Ring around the Rosie.

You are confusing me with this.

You are looking to the Republican Party to help you with gay rights?

You really should google search some information about the Republican Party's stance on gay rights. Hell, just read the Texas Republican Party platform and you'll see where the parents that send their kids to "ex-gay" ministries are getting their information.

You're in college now. There's no reason for you to be confusing these issues.

No, I am not looking to the Republican party for Gay Rights... How did you get that? I am looking to the Republican party for a better state of health of the country... And I said I am willing to sacrifice being a 2nd class Citizen for a better economy... I'm pro-choice as well, even though Palin is against it. I hate her.

Edited by Montrose1100

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Because the Democrats told the banks to loan to everyone, without the bank to have some collateral like house titles... So the Banks eventually got greedy and thats why we're in this mess.

Wow! Here the economists have had trouble both predicting and explaining this mess, everyone agrees it's incredibly complex, and yet YOU are able to boil it down to this very simple explanation: the Democrats told banks to loan to everyone.

You should really let some of the big media outlets know that you've figured it all out. The rest of the world would be very grateful.

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Wow! Here the economists have had trouble both predicting and explaining this mess, everyone agrees it's incredibly complex, and yet YOU are able to boil it down to this very simple explanation: the Democrats told banks to loan to everyone.

You should really let some of the big media outlets know that you've figured it all out. The rest of the world would be very grateful.

Would you have thought me to be crazier if I blamed the computers for panicking? Every Bubble bursts, and eventually gets better. Seriously, what's your opinion? So I can be rude to your response.

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No, I am not looking to the Republican party for Gay Rights... How did you get that? I am looking to the Republican party for a better state of health of the country... And I said I am willing to sacrifice being a 2nd class Citizen for a better economy... I'm pro-choice as well, even though Palin is against it. I hate her.

I am getting it because you've told us before that you were voting for McCain/Palin and now you've told us you have a hard one for Huckabee.

AND, before you stated you were willing to be a second class citizen in order to be wealthier, you stated that you "we're sick" about how parents treat your gay friends.

Back in the civil rights days, if you happened to have been black, you'd have been called an Uncle Tom.

I think we need a new term for gay Republicans. Auntie Janes?

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No, I am not looking to the Republican party for Gay Rights... How did you get that? I am looking to the Republican party for a better state of health of the country... And I said I am willing to sacrifice being a 2nd class Citizen for a better economy... I'm pro-choice as well, even though Palin is against it. I hate her.

Where have you been these past 8 years? There's not much more left that George Bush and the Republicans can screw up. Oh... and about that second class citizenship... When McCain gets into office, you can count on a Supreme Court that will be hostile to your rights, as a gay man. A repeal of Lawrence? Perhaps. We'll all look to you as our model of abstinence as you sacrifice your bedroom privacy rights for the rest of us. You will obey the law, right? Meanwhile, the rest of us will be pushing for equality under the law, to make this country a better place for everyone. No one deserves second class citizenship in this country. No one.

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I am getting it because you've told us before that you were voting for McCain/Palin and now you've told us you have a hard one for Huckabee.

AND, before you stated you were willing to be a second class citizen in order to be wealthier, you stated that you "we're sick" about how parents treat your gay friends.

Back in the civil rights days, if you happened to have been black, you'd have been called an Uncle Tom.

I think we need a new term for gay Republicans. Auntie Janes?

:lol: Nothing is going to change for a few years for us anyways.

Where have you been these past 8 years? There's not much more left that George Bush and the Republicans can screw up. Oh... and about that second class citizenship... When McCain gets into office, you can count on a Supreme Court that will be hostile to your rights, as a gay man. A repeal of Lawrence? Perhaps. We'll all look to you as our model of abstinence as you sacrifice your bedroom privacy rights for the rest of us. You will obey the law, right? Meanwhile, the rest of us will be pushing for equality under the law, to make this country a better place for everyone. No one deserves second class citizenship in this country. No one.

Your right, but a lot of people are. But what rights will we all have when we're in another "Great Depression"? We can be a free as a bird in our Hoovervilles. Look, I've stated how I don't want to vote for either party. I even took off my McCain/Palin HAIF Bumper sticker signature. I'm only being extreme because none of y'all understand and jump to conclusions and assume when I say anything. I know I should be more serious and more thoughtful on what I say, even more so on this topic.

I have my insane views, and you've all made that very clear. I can't have my cake and eat it too. I get it, and thats why I'm not voting.

Where have I been the past 8 years? Well 7 of them in Houston, enjoying my life to the fullest. Where were you? And when the Supreme Court goes Westbury Baptist Church on all of us, Then you'll find me in Europe.

Edited by Montrose1100

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Because the Democrats told the banks to loan to everyone, without the bank to have some collateral like house titles... So the Banks eventually got greedy and thats why we're in this mess.

First, banks don't do what Democrats (or Republicans) tell them to do. They do whatever the law allows if they think it will make money. Both Democrats and Republicans relaxed existing regulations and prevented new regulations that would have stopped banks from making bad loans and creating freaky derivatives that are at the core of the current financial crisis. The difference is that Republicans shouted the loudest for deregulation and hailed it as the savior of Western civilization. Democrats just went along because they were stupid.

You have to be aware of that already. So really, why don't you want Obama to be president?

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So really, why don't you want Obama to be president?

From what I've gathered, he's not fit to be President. High Taxes, even for small businesses!

Stanford University Economist, Michael Boskin: “History teaches us that high taxes and protectionism are not conducive to a thriving economy, the extreme case being the higher taxes and tariffs that deepened the Great Depression. While such a policy mix would be a real change, as philosophers remind us, change is not always progress.” (“Obamanomics is a Recipe for Recession” The Wall Street Journal, July 29, 2008)

Edited by Montrose1100

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Can you cite a source for Obama's plan to raise taxes on small businesses? Maybe something that contradicts the info on his web site: http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/SmallBusinessFINAL.pdf

Isn't Obama's plan to raise taxes on those making over $250k a year ? So, let's say the average PROFIT of a business is 8% to 10% of gross sales. A small business with sales of just $4 million in a good year will put these businesses in the BIG tax bracket.

Here you go meme. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11670.html

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Isn't Obama's plan to raise taxes on those making over $250k a year ? So, let's say the average PROFIT of a business is 8% to 10% of gross sales. A small business with sales of just $4 million in a good year will put these businesses in the BIG tax bracket.

Here you go meme. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11670.html

A small business with sales of $4 million would only pay higher taxes if their profit was over $250,000. Those with profits under $250,000 would not get an increase. Additionally, the increase would only be on the income ABOVE $250,000. The first $250,000 would not be changed. So, if I made $300,000, I would pay an extra 4.9% on the last 50,000....about $2,450.

I know that I cannot speak for everyone, but I would not mind paying an extra 2500 bucks on my 300K profit to help keep my country from going bankrupt. That's just me, but it may help explain why the wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth has little effect on me. I believe that those of us who have benefitted the most from living in this country should do the most to keep it afloat. Arguments that I am not greedy and selfish enough to demand lower taxes just do not hold sway with me.

The National Debt was $5.7 Trillion when Bush took office. It is currently $10.3 Trillion, and will likely be $11.5 Trillion when Bush leaves office. Think about that. Bush and his supporters have DOUBLED the National Debt in 8 years. He had a surplus when he took office. Someone has to pay that bill. If the country goes bankrupt, who will be hurt most? The poor will remain poor. What will the upper middle class and wealthy do?

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Isn't Obama's plan to raise taxes on those making over $250k a year ? So, let's say the average PROFIT of a business is 8% to 10% of gross sales. A small business with sales of just $4 million in a good year will put these businesses in the BIG tax bracket.

That's not raising taxes on small business, that's raising taxes on people who make more than $250k per year. Why should they be excluded because they own small businesses?

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That's not raising taxes on small business, that's raising taxes on people who make more than $250k per year. Why should they be excluded because they own small businesses?

Because they drive Hummer H2s with big decals on the windows?

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Because they drive Hummer H2s with big decals on the windows?

Did you two even bother to do the math ? 8% on $4mil is $320k. Look who just fell into Obama's web.

Meme, people who own small businesses usually pay themkselves a salary. They pay taxes on that salary, and then have to pay taxes on their profitable small business under Obama's plan.

Red, couldn't you use that extra $2400 for some more upgrades to your house ? Here, since a big stepper like you isn't worried about $2400 just give me $1500 and I'll leave you alone. I bet people like Mark are worried about that $2400.

Edited by TJones

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Did you two even bother to do the math ? 8% on $4mil is $320k. Look who just fell into Obama's net.

We know. We're OK with raising taxes on families that make over $250k. Remember? We're voting for Obama, with all the other Marxists.

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Obama says that most small businesses do not earn over $250,000 a year. That is clearly a lie.

It is impossible. It cannot be true. Your own instinct tells you that. You in small business know full well it can't be true. Now, the employees of a small business might believe it. Most employees don't get to see the books. But if you're an employee of small business, and there are five or six other employees in your small business (and that's a small business) just add up your combined salaries and find out if your small business has enough to pay them. If you're making $50,000 a year at a small business and there are five of you, that's $250,000 right there. If there are three of you and one's making 30, one's making 70, one's making 60, you can see how just the number of employees will get you close to what Obama says is the top of most small businesses.

That $250,000 is key because he wants all of you who don't make that amount of money to think you're not going to get a tax increase.

Link

Try here too

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We know. We're OK with raising taxes on families that make over $250k. Remember? We're voting for Obama, with all the other Marxists.

That isn't how Obama explains it. He tries to tell loyal followers, like yourself, that it is the BIG companies that fall into this category. He doesn't make mention that it is the guy that owns the McDonald's down the street from you, who hires all those folks to do a job. You think he is gonna let higher taxes cut into his Mickey D's profit ? Nope, he is gonna let Jimmy the fry guy go, in order to make up for that money.

Edited by TJones

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Did you two even bother to do the math ? 8% on $4mil is $320k. Look who just fell into Obama's web.

Meme, people who own small businesses usually pay themkselves a salary. They pay taxes on that salary, and then have to pay taxes on their profitable small business under Obama's plan.

Red, couldn't you use that extra $2400 for some more upgrades to your house ? Here, since a big stepper like you isn't worried about $2400 just give me $1500 and I'll leave you alone. I bet people like Mark are worried about that $2400.

I did those upgrades on far less than a $320,000 salary. In fact, I've never come close to making that kind of money. Perhaps the fact that I have lived my entire life on far less, I feel like I could spare a few thousand bucks for the country that afforded me the opportunity to make that kind of money.

Again, I apologize to those who make $300,000 a year for me not being more selfish. It is my parents' fault.

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I did those upgrades on far less than a $320,000 salary. In fact, I've never come close to making that kind of money. Perhaps the fact that I have lived my entire life on far less, I feel like I could spare a few thousand bucks for the country that afforded me the opportunity to make that kind of money.

Again, I apologize to those who make $300,000 a year for me not being more selfish. It is my parents' fault.

Fair enough, let's not even use BIG monies. Let's say you only made $30,000 a year. If I stole $240 from you, and redistributed it to the barflys who couldn't afford another round at the wateringhole down the street, and didn't include you in the windfall of drinks, would you be pissed ?

Edited by TJones

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Are you in college, montrose? Do you buy that math? I sure hope not.

BTW, as one who was a small businessman for the last 15 years, I can safely say that Rush is full of it. I routinely had employees making more money than I. In fact, want to know what is great fun? Try going to your bank to borrow money to PAY your employees! It's so cool! In 2001, our last recession, I had negative income for much of the year! Not $320,000, TJ. Not $250,000, Rush. NEGATIVE income! The good news is neither candidate proposes taxing me when I lose money. The other good news is that business picked up later in the year, so I had to pay taxes on my $18,000. Not that I minded. Much better to pay taxes on 18 grand than get a tax break for losing money....at least in my world.

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That isn't how Obama explains it. He tries to tell loyal followers, like yourself, that it is the BIG companies that fall into this category. He doesn't make mention that it is the guy that owns the McDonald's down the street from you, who hires all those folks to do a job. You think he is gonna let higher taxes cut into his Mickey D's profit ? Nope, he is gonna let Jimmy the fry guy go, in order to make up for that money.

Vote McCain. SAVE JIMMY THE FRY GUY!!!" :lol:

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Vote McCain. SAVE JIMMY THE FRY GUY!!!" :lol:

LOL! I am glad you are finally seeing the light west ! ;):lol:

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D Magazine's editor endorses Obama:

(Since I cannot post the whole thing, I will just choose an excerpt.)

...

But today it is so-called conservatives who are cemented to political programs when they clearly don

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Are you in college, montrose? Do you buy that math? I sure hope not.

I just googled whatever and put it up. I really don't care anymore, and I'm just gonna vote independent or whatever is 3rd on the ballot. If the country is going to hell in a Hand basket, might as well hold the handle!

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Fair enough, let's not even use BIG monies. Let's say you only made $30,000 a year. If I stole $240 from you, and redistributed it to the barflys who couldn't afford another round at the wateringhole down the street, and didn't include you in the windfall of drinks, would you be pissed ?

Do you really think that a bar analogy is going to change my opinion that those fortunate enough to succeed in this country should invest the most in ensuring its solvency? At what point would you concede that perhaps we as a nation should start paying our bills? If not at $11.5 Trillion, perhaps at $15 Trillion? $20 Trillion? When? John McCain's plans would add $5 Trillion to our debt in 10 years, while Obama's would add $3.6 Trillion. Remember, these estimates were calculated BEFORE the government decided to throw $2 Trillion at the economy.

This talk about lowering taxes while our debt is spiraling upward reminds me of the GM talk about SUV sales being unaffected as the price of gasoline shot up. We see how that one turned out. While I understand why BOTH candidates talk of tax cuts, it still annoys me. Why can't Americans handle the truth? Who among us REALLY thinks we can continue to run deficts approaching $1 Trillion per year forever? Do you really think you won't be around when it comes time to pay the piper? Do you REALLY think that the days of easy credit and unbridled spending while lowering taxes will return? Do you REALLY think that John McCain and his running mate have any idea what to do with the economy?

Bad bar analogies and accusations of Marxism aside, I am willing to pay my fair share. If that means tax increases for those making UNDER $250,000 (which includes me), so be it. Telling me I am not selfish enough is really just not going to make me change my mind.

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I really don't care anymore, and I'm just gonna vote independent or whatever is 3rd on the ballot. If the country is going to hell in a Hand basket, might as well hold the handle!

Actually that puts you squarely on the side of Sarah "End of Days" Palin. And another tally mark for the GOP!

Edited by N Judah

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I just googled whatever and put it up. I really don't care anymore, and I'm just gonna vote independent or whatever is 3rd on the ballot. If the country is going to hell in a Hand basket, might as well hold the handle!

But you still haven't explained why you don't want Obama to be president. He isn't going to raise taxes on small business. Why are you so opposed to him and so apathetic at the same time?

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It is not about being selfish, you hit on the point though, it is about what is FAIR ??? A Flat Tax is fair in my opinion. Why should anyone be penalized for working harder than others, to make more money, yet you would have us all on the same level of income by taxing only those who work harder to make everything fair ? In your world I guess meme is right, "Grasshoppers R00L !!!" My potential of income depends on how hard I decide to work. When you were in private practice, it was the same way for you. Why should I be forced to supplement other's incomes with my hardwork ?

Taxes WILL be raised for everyone if Obama is elected. Before you ask "HOW?", I will tell you, again. When the Bush tax cuts expire, will Obama sign off on those, or will he let them slide ?

No, I don't think McCain knows enough, but he can certainly hire the right economists that do know.

Meme, could you please explain your logic of how Obama isn't going to be raising taxes on small businesses, when over 2/3s of them make over $250k ?

Edited by TJones

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Meme, could you please explain your logic of how Obama isn't going to be raising taxes on small businesses, when over 2/3s of them make over $250k ?

He hasn't proposed raising taxes on small businesses. If the owner or an employee of a small business makes over $250k, those taxes will increase.

Payscale.com lists the median salary for a small business owner at around $70,000. Where are you getting your numbers?

Why should I be forced to supplement other's incomes with my hardwork ?

Because you live in the USA.

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Meme, could you please explain your logic of how Obama isn't going to be raising taxes on small businesses, when over 2/3s of them make over $250k ?

If the owners of those businesses are netting 250K+ a year, in personal income... PAY UP. If you re-invest 200K/year back into the business, so you net 50K/year - different story.

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Why should I be forced to supplement other's incomes with my hardwork ?

You hear that mister teacher, firefighter, and police officer?

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When you were in private practice, it was the same way for you. Why should I be forced to supplement other's incomes with my hardwork ?

I had no problem paying a higher percentage of my income in taxes when I made more. I was also grateful to pay a lower percentage in those dreadful years when my income dropped below $20,000. Self employed people understand this wild disparity in income from year to year, and I at least did not mind paying more when times were good.

Taxes WILL be raised for everyone if Obama is elected. Before you ask "HOW?", I will tell you, again. When the Bush tax cuts expire, will Obama sign off on those, or will he let them slide ?

I am comfortable paying higher taxes to draw down our huge debt. I do not believe it is fair to pass it on to your children.

No, I don't think McCain knows enough, but he can certainly hire the right economists that do know.

So can Obama. In fact, he already has. McCain has Phil Gramm.

Meme, could you please explain your logic of how Obama isn't going to be raising taxes on small businesses, when over 2/3s of them make over $250k ?

Untrue statement. I'll respond to a true one.

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But you still haven't explained why you don't want Obama to be president. He isn't going to raise taxes on small business. Why are you so opposed to him and so apathetic at the same time?

Because I don't like his stance on taxes, or "how to fix the economy"... I don't find him fit to be president. Also he said he wouldn't let Civil unions be a national thing, but rather left to the states to decide. Isn't that how it already is? Change my ass. So either way nothing is different.

I also believe McCain is just putting on this conservative mask to get votes.

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I did those upgrades on far less than a $320,000 salary. In fact, I've never come close to making that kind of money. Perhaps the fact that I have lived my entire life on far less, I feel like I could spare a few thousand bucks for the country that afforded me the opportunity to make that kind of money.

Again, I apologize to those who make $300,000 a year for me not being more selfish. It is my parents' fault.

Oh Red, you and your logic! Why do you always parachute down with that?

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This just showed up on the Chronicle website...

Record $454.8 Billion deficit for 2008

The federal budget deficit soared to $454.8 billion in 2008 as a housing collapse and efforts to combat the economic slowdown pushed the tide of government red ink to the highest level in history.

The Bush administration said Tuesday the deficit for the budget year that ended Sept. 30 was more than double the $161.5 billion recorded in 2007.

It surpassed the previous record of $413 billion set in 2004. Economists predicted a far worse number next year as the costs of the government's rescue of the financial system and the economic hard times hit the nation's balance sheet.

Some analysts believe that next year's deficit could easily top $700 billion, giving the next president a formidable challenge

Yeah, we need to lower taxes. :huh:

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Oh Red, you and your logic! Why do you always parachute down with that?

i think he's offering to

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Because I don't like his stance on taxes, or "how to fix the economy"... I don't find him fit to be president. Also he said he wouldn't let Civil unions be a national thing, but rather left to the states to decide. Isn't that how it already is? Change my ass. So either way nothing is different.

I also believe McCain is just putting on this conservative mask to get votes.

So what about Obama's stance on the economy do you disagree with? Is it his focus on middle class tax relief? I just have to ask because the standard conservative lie is that he will raise taxes on the middle class.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/

Regarding gay rights, Obama has called for the repeal of 'don't ask don't tell,' has co-sponsored legislation on hate crimes to include sexual orientation, supports adding sexual orientation to the employment non-discrimiation act, and supports gay and lesbian adoption.

Granted, he supports civil unions and not gay marriage, but ask yourself, what has McCain done on behalf of the gay community, or civil rights for that matter?

McCain voted against making MLK a holiday in 1983; he thinks don't ask don't tell is working just fine, and he supports the Proposition 8 in California to ban gay marriage (Obama opposes the ban). McCain also voted against extending hate crimes to include sexual orientation, voted against prohibiting job discrimination based upon sexual orientation, and he believes gay marriage should be left to the states.

And I apologize for demonizing an entire political party, but you have to realize that a large part of the Republican base has shifted to the religious right since the Newt Gingrich "Republican Revolution" in 1994. G.W. Bush has only pushed it further into the evangelicals by courting them into his base. These folks have pushed out or scared away many of the traditional fiscal conservatives that may have been more forgiving on social issues, are the religions folks are not about to allow any civil rights for gays. The foundation of their political beliefs system is largely to stop abortion and lock gays into the closet with no rights and no respect.

For all their faults, the Democrats are generally in favor of equal rights for gays, with a few exceptions in the more conservative districts. They do have to make compromises sometimes, such as the civil unions being left to the states. Unfortunately, this is politically necessary in this country. If Obama pushed strongly for a national gay marriage law, it would likely consume his Presidency. I think the gradual fight for individual rights is necessary at this time, and one step at a time, society will come around to doing what's right.

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Because I don't like his stance on taxes, or "how to fix the economy"... I don't find him fit to be president. Also he said he wouldn't let Civil unions be a national thing, but rather left to the states to decide. Isn't that how it already is? Change my ass. So either way nothing is different.

I also believe McCain is just putting on this conservative mask to get votes.

McCain is NOT a conservative.

Hence...why I am not enamored with the guy. But, having him as Pres is better than having a Marxist run the country!

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i think he's offering to

And? This guys is apparently makes a lot of money. A couple of notes...

1) many of the people who complain about taxing the rich are not rich themselves. In fact, most of them probably will do better under the Obama plan. So I have to ask, why do you want to pay for a tax cut for the wealthy?

2) the wealthy are not unanimously opposed to paying more taxes. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet said that the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy and the estate tax repeal were bad ideas, and both felt that they owed it to their country to pay more.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0214-01.htm

So, you have middle class folks arguing for tax relief on behalf of the rich, and you have rich folks arguing the opposite. Is this just a side effect of the Rush Limbaugh's of the world using the middle class as hapless tools for the benefit of the few?

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