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2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Obama (D-IL) vs. McCain (R-AZ)


Trae

Next United States President  

107 members have voted

  1. 1. Pick One

    • Barack Obama
      54
    • John McCain
      46
    • Other
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So, TJ, with the Dow Jones setting another new record today, dropping 800 points at one point, and settling below 10,000 for the first time since 2004, how many people do you think are paying attention to Palin talking about a 1960s radical versus say, how much value their retirement account has lost in the last week?

Not only was McCain knee deep in the Keating 5 scandal, which was at the heart of the 1980s S&L and housing collapse, McCain's campaign advisor Phil Gramm is knee deep in the CDO and CDS debacle, which is at the heart of today's financial and housing collapse. Say what you will about weather forecasters, but McCain STILL doesn't get it. He is STILL consorting with the greedy and corrupt Wall Street friends that Palin claimed they were going to run out of town.

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So, TJ, with the Dow Jones setting another new record today, dropping 800 points at one point, and settling below 10,000 for the first time since 2004, how many people do you think are paying attention to Palin talking about a 1960s radical versus say, how much value their retirement account has lost in the last week?

Not only was McCain knee deep in the Keating 5 scandal, which was at the heart of the 1980s S&L and housing collapse, McCain's campaign advisor Phil Gramm is knee deep in the CDO and CDS debacle, which is at the heart of today's financial and housing collapse. Say what you will about weather forecasters, but McCain STILL doesn't get it. He is STILL consorting with the greedy and corrupt Wall Street friends that Palin claimed they were going to run out of town.

I was actually just thinking the same thing. But will socialism get us out of this mess ? I don't think EITHER candidate is qualified to run the country. Please explain, how is it if McCain was "knee deep" in the Keating 5 fiasco, that he escapes unharmed ? I don't know either, perhaps being the son and grandson of two Admirals has it's perks ?

Let's look at it this way, McCain has already claimed to halt spending on alot of programs to try and help with the economy, Obama wants to add another Trillion in spending on top of what the Govt. just bummed from the American Taxpayers, i.e. you and me Red. Wait, has Obama siad that he has put those plans on hold ?

Edited by TJones
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What would you say of someone who associates with someone who broke into a rival political campaign's headquarters, proposed kidnapping activists and murdering journalists?

You mean the guy that had his sentence commuted by a Democrat President ? So, now a lethal terrorist group and someone breaking and entering to get some dirt on a rival are in the same realm ? Wow meme, I guess if we don't catch Bin Laden in 30 years and he turns up as a professor at UofH, everything will be forgiven and hunky dory for you.

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I'd say that is poor judgement as well.

I wouldn't. Ayers was a militant leftist in the 60s and 70s. Now he's a professor and sits on the board of a charitable organization. I wouldn't stay away from the Woods Fund or the Chicago Annenberg Challenge because of him. Likewise, I wouldn't stay away from charitable organizations if Liddy was on the board. I might treat Liddy with more disdain than Ayers if I met them at a party (now, that would be some party) because I think Liddy did more to harm this country than Ayers ever could have, but I wouldn't leave the party if I saw either of them there.

So, now a lethal terrorist group and someone breaking and entering to get some dirt on a rival are in the same realm ?

Hardly. Liddy was much, much worse.

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I wouldn't. Ayers was a militant leftist in the 60s and 70s. Now he's a professor and sits on the board of a charitable organization. I wouldn't stay away from the Woods Fund or the Chicago Annenberg Challenge because of him. Likewise, I wouldn't stay away from charitable organizations if Liddy was on the board. I might treat Liddy with more disdain than Ayers if I met them at a party (now, that would be some party) because I think Liddy did more to harm this country than Ayers ever could have, but I wouldn't leave the party if I saw either of them there.

Honestly, it all depends on who Ayers is now. I'm always willing to forgive and forget if they have repented, but he has not. He may not be terrorizing now, but he did and he's not sorry for it.

And I don't think I'd be at a party in the first place if those two people were invited. Shows the character of people inviting them and I probably wouldn't be associated with them either in the first place.

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I was actually just thinking the same thing. But will socialism get us out of this mess ? I don't think EITHER candidate is qualified to run the country. Please explain, how is it if McCain was "knee deep" in the Keating 5 fiasco, that he escapes unharmed ? I don't know either, perhaps being the son and grandson of two Admirals has it's perks ?

Let's look at it this way, McCain has already claimed to halt spending on alot of programs to try and help with the economy, Obama wants to add another Trillion in spending on top of what the Govt. just bummed from the American Taxpayers, i.e. you and me Red. Wait, has Obama siad that he has put those plans on hold ?

Actually, yes, he has said some plans will be put on hold. This is actually a simple election, TJ. I am voting for MY self interests. It just so happens that my self interests are good for the country. You can vote against your self interests if you'd like, but you won't get me to go along with you. Iraq is not a threat to me. In fact, STAYING in Iraq is a threat to me. McCain running the economy will ruin what little investment I have. I am not going to vote against my self interests just because a Black guy might win.

I've said it before. Socialism is not a dirty word to me. We already have social programs, and they allow my 85 year old parents to live comfortably in their old age (that would include my dad, who was a pilot in World War II). Social programs are not all bad, and I reject the argument that they are. If Bush/McCain has been good to you, I do not fault your vote for McCain. If not, I wonder why you want to engage in self immolation by putting McCain and Palin in office. It's not like you are Bob McNair or something.

Now, as for McCain emerging from Keating 5 unharmed, did he? He was rebuked by Congress for his involvement, and he is forever known as one of the "Five". He is currently being beaten over the head with it as he runs for president during another mortgage and housing meltdown. Contrast that with Obama, who was 8 years old in the 60s, was never a member of the Weather Underground, and has never worked with Ayers on anything bad. Who is more involved? I know what your answer is, but it does not pass the logic test, and THAT is why this tactic will fail. It is not logical, and it is not current.

By contrast, McCain's associations are VERY current...and topical...and logical.

Edited by RedScare
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Contrast that with Obama, who was 8 years old in the 60s, was never a member of the Weather Underground, and has never worked with Ayers on anything bad. Who is more involved?

Like I said to Meme, I guess you and him will both forgive Bin Laden in about 30 years using that logic ?

Red, say you were running for D.A. and someone funded you and threw a party for you at his house back in the 90's, why you two even served on a charitable committee together for a couple of years in the late 90's, and then come to find out he was a admitted child sex offender on 5 counts and was set to hang back in the 70's, but got off on a technicality, but you already KNEW all this when you were pallin ' around together back in the 90's. What kind of light would that put you in ?

Edited by TJones
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Obama even closing in on McCain in Georgia. Georgia is probably feeling a North Carolina situation. The Atlanta area is helping out Obama with all of the transplant from the states in the Northeast as well as California. We'll see how Georgia plays out.

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Like I said to Meme, I guess you and him will both forgive Bin Laden in about 30 years using that logic ?

Red, say you were running for D.A. and someone funded you and threw a party for you at his house back in the 90's, why you two even served on a charitable committee together for a couple of years in the late 90's, and then come to find out he was a admitted child sex offender on 5 counts and was set to hang back in the 70's, but got off on a technicality, but you already KNEW all this when you were pallin ' around together back in the 90's. What kind of light would that put you in ?

TJ, your logic is fatally flawed. Frankly, you know it is flawed. Additionally, you refuse to apply the same logic to McCain. McCain is REALLY palling around with financial terrorists. They are on his campaign staff. Yet, you ignore it. I am through debating it with you. I will simply direct you to read the polls, where you can see for yourself that your logic (and McCain's logic) is not working on the voters, either.

PS - I can't WAIT for Palin to bring up the Rev. Wright thing, so Obama can go after Palin's use of pastors to shield her from witches, speaking in tongues, and advocacy for holy wars.

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PS - I can't WAIT for Palin to bring up the Rev. Wright thing, so Obama can go after Palin's use of pastors to shield her from witches, speaking in tongues, and advocacy for holy wars.

I'm really hoping she does. Everyone has already been through the Wright drama. Palin pastor/church will all be new material.

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1.jpg

Trae do you not see the inherent problem with this?

Don't call me paranoid, I seena plenty LAMP cluster hack, but paper ballots are a very healthy way to maintain democracy. How would you feel if McCain won by 51.7% of the popular vote and a handful votes of the electoral college?

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This is how far the BS media will reach to try and put any tarnish on the Bush administration it can, not that it needs any help getting tarnished. But a fine example of slanted so called reporting. Good ole NBC.

http://www.click2houston.com/news/17640502/detail.html

Now what relevance does this at all have to do with GWB, yet his name has to be mentioned in it? NONE WHAT SO EVER. But this is what the media has come to to try an slant their own political agenda. Talk about a far reach. Friggin' Pathetic is what it is. GWB shoots himself in the foot with enough regularity, that they really don't need to resort to these measure, yet they still do.

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Not saying I believe the numbers any more than Trae's favorite site, but I like how they point out the "safe" and "leaning" numbers more clearly instead of painting a landslide. The page is also interesting to flip back and forth between 2004 results and projected numbers for this year. It just shows that there is the possibility for a lot of surprises on election day.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/calculator/

poll_10072008.jpg

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Looks like they're just connecting the celebrity dots to create some fanfare. Neil Bush is also the Chairman of the Board of Directors of Andrews Technologies.

This is how far the BS media will reach to try and put any tarnish on the Bush administration it can, not that it needs any help getting tarnished. But a fine example of slanted so called reporting. Good ole NBC.

http://www.click2houston.com/news/17640502/detail.html

Now what relevance does this at all have to do with GWB, yet his name has to be mentioned in it? NONE WHAT SO EVER. But this is what the media has come to to try an slant their own political agenda. Talk about a far reach. Friggin' Pathetic is what it is. GWB shoots himself in the foot with enough regularity, that they really don't need to resort to these measure, yet they still do.

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Georgia is probably feeling a North Carolina situation. The Atlanta area is helping out Obama with all of the transplant from the states in the Northeast as well as California.

What are you trying to say here, Trae? Do you have a source for this material? Thanks!

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I guess the financial crisis is over since McCain is back on his campaign.

Thanks, John! Your help in ending this crisis was instrumental. I am glad to see the financial markets are doing so well that you're now able to campaign negatively. Glad to see that Country is indeed first... to be thrown infront of the bus!

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TJ, your logic is fatally flawed. Frankly, you know it is flawed. Additionally, you refuse to apply the same logic to McCain. McCain is REALLY palling around with financial terrorists. They are on his campaign staff. Yet, you ignore it. I am through debating it with you. I will simply direct you to read the polls, where you can see for yourself that your logic (and McCain's logic) is not working on the voters, either.

Of course, when you are drunk on the Obama-Aid, all logic, except for your Messiah's, is thrown out the window. If you didn't feel comfortable saying that associating with admitted criminals is NOT a good thing , all you had to do was say so. You didn't have to go into the long, drawn out, "I rather not debate it anymore" approach.

Bottomline is Obama expouses to "Love America" yet has done nothing but try to idolize, emulate and surround himself, over the years, with those who are "America Haters". That is where the logic is flawed.

Edited by TJones
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Of course, when you are drunk on the Obama-Aid, all logic, except for your Messiah's, is thrown out the window. If you didn't feel comfortable saying that associating with admitted criminals is NOT a good thing , all you had to do was say so. You didn't have to go into the long, drawn out, "I rather not debate it anymore" approach. Bottomline is Obama expouses to "Love America" yet has done nothing but try to idolize, emulate and surround himself, over the years, with those who are "America Haters", That is where the logic is flawed.

"quotation marks"

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Of course, when you are drunk on the Obama-Aid, all logic, except for your Messiah's, is thrown out the window. If you didn't feel comfortable saying that associating with admitted criminals is NOT a good thing , all you had to do was say so. You didn't have to go into the long, drawn out, "I rather not debate it anymore" approach.

Bottomline is Obama expouses to "Love America" yet has done nothing but try to idolize, emulate and surround himself, over the years, with those who are "America Haters". That is where the logic is flawed.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081007/ap_on_...ain_iran_contra

Here is something for your "guilt by association" game. Or are only Democrats to be held accountable in your world?

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Thanks west, please refer to post #2053 for your answer to this link.

2053? Explaining away his Keating Five involvement, badly IMO, is a rational for his being on the advisory board of an organization "linked to former Nazi collaborators and ultra-right-wing death squads in Central America"? Maybe you need to type slower so I can understand.

Edited by west20th
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Since Friday, when the McCain campaign announced they were going to "turn the page on the economy" and go negative, the DOW has lost over 1,000 points. 1,000 points. Nothing else matters. Nothing.

Good thing McCain postponed his campaigning to fly to Washington to help fix the economy. Now that its all better he's back to campaigning again.

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What are you trying to say here, Trae? Do you have a source for this material? Thanks!

What am I trying to say? That Georgia is not a full lock for McCain anymore:

2920189459_1706c9111a_o.png

Georgia is still in this. It's not as probable as Florida or North Carolina, but anything can happen.

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So, take the $840 Billion bailout package, add the $1+ Trillion short term debt buyout by Bernanke, that's $2 Trillion in new government obligations....unfunded by tax receipts, I might add.

Anyone want to bet that McCain ignores the $2 Trillion in new debt, and rants about $18 Billion in "pork barrel spending" at tonight's debate? I'll wager a glass of your favorite happy hour beverage.

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So, take the $840 Billion bailout package, add the $1+ Trillion short term debt buyout by Bernanke, that's $2 Trillion in new government obligations....unfunded by tax receipts, I might add.

Anyone want to bet that McCain ignores the $2 Trillion in new debt, and rants about $18 Billion in "pork barrel spending" at tonight's debate? I'll wager a glass of your favorite happy hour beverage.

You're on. If he brings up that $18 billion again he's dumber than I think. That flew like a lead balloon (is that the right metaphor?) in the last debate.

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So, take the $840 Billion bailout package, add the $1+ Trillion short term debt buyout by Bernanke, that's $2 Trillion in new government obligations....unfunded by tax receipts, I might add. Anyone want to bet that McCain ignores the $2 Trillion in new debt, and rants about $18 Billion in "pork barrel spending" at tonight's debate? I'll wager a glass of your favorite happy hour beverage.

Where's your watering hole?

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What am I trying to say? That Georgia is not a full lock for McCain anymore:

2920189459_1706c9111a_o.png

Georgia is still in this. It's not as probable as Florida or North Carolina, but anything can happen.

All do respect and nothing personal Trae, I know it's your thread, but none of that crap your posting means anything come election day. By the time everybody gets through shuffling the deck and cutting it like a pumpkin pie. It's going to be whatever the best fix that's in. There is going to be so much funny business in this election, Gore's little sniveling fit isn't going to mean a damn thing. The shenanigans have already started. Ohio laid the groundwork to get somebody screwed. I'll bet this election winds up in litigation.

So, take the $840 Billion bailout package, add the $1+ Trillion short term debt buyout by Bernanke, that's $2 Trillion in new government obligations....unfunded by tax receipts, I might add.

Anyone want to bet that McCain ignores the $2 Trillion in new debt, and rants about $18 Billion in "pork barrel spending" at tonight's debate? I'll wager a glass of your favorite happy hour beverage.

I'll pass on that fool's bet.

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Just think about this then, Bush was ahead of Kerry at this time in the polls in 2004. Also, the race has been much more steady this year (and in Obama's favor). There is really nothing that I can see, that will turn this in McCain's favor.

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Good thing McCain postponed his campaigning to fly to Washington to help fix the economy. Now that its all better he's back to campaigning again.

Okay, you guys are too hilarious. Yes, the economy is back on track and the old McCain Steamroller is back on track.

Hilarious.

Just think about this then, Bush was ahead of Kerry at this time in the polls in 2004. Also, the race has been much more steady this year (and in Obama's favor). There is really nothing that I can see, that will turn this in McCain's favor.

surprise(1).jpg

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I may have just found a new signature.

Nice video, unfortunately you need to read a little about this case. There were five prominent senators three Democrats two Republicans that got caught up in this investigation. Two of them Senator John McCain and Senator John Glenn both American icons one a democrat one a republican should have been exonerated. This was investigated by a prominent attorney who is a well know Democrat who defended President Clinton and his cigar. He found that both men acted appropriately. Once they realized that a criminal investigation had begun as they both stopped doing business with Keating. What puzzles me is that Mr. Bennett has been all over television, written a book explaining his findings but it seems the other campaign either has not seen it or just wants to lie about it.

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Just think about this then, Bush was ahead of Kerry at this time in the polls in 2004. Also, the race has been much more steady this year (and in Obama's favor). There is really nothing that I can see, that will turn this in McCain's favor.

I understand what you are saying, but mark my words, the precedence has been set for voter fraud from both sides. Ohio is going to be such a huge distraction through this entire election, the real smoking gun will never be found. This is an ugly business, and you have to understand what pollsters do. They fix polls to actually manipulate votes, instead of taking polls to get the gist of what is really going on. They operate list speculators in futures market, they can manipulate the bottom line with polls, much like speculators manipulate the market with speculation. It's a really bad bad business. They only thing that really throws a wrench in an election is a landslide, there's not a lot you can do with that. It is what it is. This thing is far from a landslide. And the pollsters and strategists are doing there thing, with their person spin doctors and media connections, to sway close votes and fence setters, it's all part of the game. The pollsters play the media again themselves for the good of their individual causes. that's what they get paid to do.

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Nice video, unfortunately you need to read a little about this case. There were five prominent senators three Democrats two Republicans that got caught up in this investigation. Two of them Senator John McCain and Senator John Glenn both American icons one a democrat one a republican should have been exonerated. This was investigated by a prominent attorney who is a well know Democrat who defended President Clinton and his cigar. He found that both men acted appropriately. Once they realized that a criminal investigation had begun as they both stopped doing business with Keating. What puzzles me is that Mr. Bennett has been all over television, written a book explaining his findings but it seems the other campaign either has not seen it or just wants to lie about it.

Welcome to the forum, SBM. Rather than read about a 20 year old scandal, I think I'll just read about McCain's plans TODAY. And his economic plans are to put Phil Gramm in charge of fixing it.

Nice try, but I'm not going to vote for the guy that has no clue how to run the economy. Feel free to use your vote how you see fit, though. Oh, and I also disagree about the 'American Icon' bit.

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coming in late due to certain breaking corporate bailout news that had my phone ringing off the hook (American General was officially called out on USA Today in a transcript from the AIG hearing). What they fail to mention is that while this half million dollar back-slapping sausage-fest was going on, many of the couple of thousand local employees of the company were still waiting in gas lines, and in week two of no electricity after Hurricane Ike.

Anyhoo, I'm with Mark: 2004 had nothing on what will be the aftermath of this election, re: litigation. Too many stories from both parties about vote rolls, rigging, etc. Red, I will go ahead and have my drink at home during the 'debate' when the pork comes up. Can't wait to see what the McPain Train has in store for us! Oh, and a sudden move to gold standard, or forgiving the debt, would be instant third world status.

There. Am I caught up?

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