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2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Obama (D-IL) vs. McCain (R-AZ)

Next United States President  

107 members have voted

  1. 1. Pick One

    • Barack Obama
      54
    • John McCain
      46
    • Other
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True, Bush has put us far far far into the red... remember when Clinton left us w/ a budget surplus? That was nice.

Surplus! That's like saying you got a credit limit raised on your Visa card, and you now have a surplus. Both sides have been playing this shell game with tax money since the beginning. We just used to have somewhat of fiscal responsibility. But since '82 and Reagan set his eyes on breaking the USSR financially, he took us down with them, and it's been open game since. And this war in Iraq has harpooned the national debt to points that can never be recovered from.

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Ah young man ... but I do not have a cross around my neck.

which isn't a sign either way.

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which isn't a sign either way.

If I HAD a cross around my neck, professing to be LIKE Jesus, I would think things that would come out of my mouth would be more Christ-like.

Just a thought.

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If I HAD a cross around my neck, professing to be LIKE Jesus
i must have missed that part of the story. oh wait no i didn't.

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Apparently you are confused.

where did she profess to be like Jesus? next you're going to say that someone who sends out Christmas cards also professes to be like Jesus?

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where did she profess to be like Jesus? next you're going to say that someone who sends out Christmas cards also professes to be like Jesus?

Her cross professed it. If you wear a religious symbol I would think it means you hold that person or deity in high regards and would be something you strive towards.

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I guess the Republicans know Palin will do badly in the debate, so they're already cooking up blame against the moderator. Just goes to show you how much confidence they have in their VP pick!

Also, the book in question won't even be released until AFTER the election. So how do they even know it's biased? What I heard is that the chapter on Obama hasn't even been written yet.

Yes, it would be nice to know my vote might actually matter once in awhile! That's funny, I'm originally from PA as well.

Looking like PA may go to Obama... PA usually ends up going Democrat (thank you Philadelphia and Pittsburgh), at least it has the last several elections. ^_^

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Looking like PA may go to Obama... PA usually ends up going Democrat (thank you Philadelphia and Pittsburgh), at least it has the last several elections. ^_^

I'm streaming the debate on C-SPAN and she at least seems to be holding her own. Not winning any points, but she is not coming across as completely clueless like she has over the past couple of weeks.

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I'm streaming the debate on C-SPAN and she at least seems to be holding her own. Not winning any points, but she is not coming across as completely clueless like she has over the past couple of weeks.

I am at work all night tonight but not listening to the debate... keep us updated! :)

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I am at work all night tonight but not listening to the debate... keep us updated! :)

I think Biden is much more statesmanly (is that too manish a term?) and seems to be clear and precise in his answers to the questions. She is still waffling and double-talking, but it is not like in her interviews.

She seems to have facts and figures in her head, but she is looking at notes each time before she speaks.

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I think Biden is much more statesmanly (is that too manish a term?) and seems to be clear and precise in his answers to the questions. She is still waffling and double-talking, but it is not like in her interviews.

She seems to have facts and figures in her head, but she is looking at notes each time before she speaks.

No... Biden is very statesmanly. I swear I almost feel like this is the election... if Biden does well and Palin doesn't do extraordinarily well, I think it's over... I don't think McCain can recover in the polls... I could be wrong, though.

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I know this is a petty, but she also cannot (like George Bush) pronounce NUCLEAR.

For heaven's sake!

It's NU-KLEE-ER!!!

How hard is that to say!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

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Palin was just on Fox News, naming newspapers and supreme court cases. She said she was probably too flippant during the Couric interview and probably should have taken some of Couric's questions more seriously. I agree.

I'm not surprised she knows the names of newspapers. She does, in fact, have a degree in journalism.

Edited by N Judah

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Palin was just on Fox News, naming newspapers and supreme court cases. She said she was probably too flippant during the Couric interview and probably should have taken some of Couric's questions more seriously. I agree.

I'm not surprised she knows the names of newspapers. She does, in fact, have a degree in journalism.

LOL, Palin was obviously prepped up for Fox News and able to name Supreme Court cases and things like that. McCain's camp wasn't going to let that happen again.

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Run to Fox News for help! These answers are so rehearsed. All the people saying that Palin didn't name a publication she read because she didn't want to endorse them must be feeling pretty dumb right now (I'm talking to you Elisabeth Hasselbeck) ;):

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081003/...D0KvjXfSumyFz4D

Palin revises judges, newspaper answers

Andy Barr 1 hour, 56 minutes ago

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin clarified two of her more memorable gaffes this week involving Supreme Court cases and her reading habits.

In an interview with CBS

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Well, 30 days to the election, and McCain has officially conceded that he has no plan for improving the nation.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6041238.html

Every trick he has tried has failed, so now he has gone completely negative. He has no positive campaign ads on the air.

Anyone remember 8 months ago, when McCain said he was going to run a positive campaign? Guess he meant, "As long as I am winning". Not that it matters. When McCain "suspended" his campaign, he lost votes. During the bailout debate, he lost votes. Now, everyone knows that he wants to distract voters from the miserable economy that he and winkin' Palin have no idea how to fix.

I suppose it remains to be seen whether voters are stupid enough to fall for it, but clearly McCain has conceded that he cannot win on merit.

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Part of me wants the Obama camp to take the high road on this, and another part wants to see McCain dragged through the dirt. I'd be happier with the high road. The Ayers thing is just ridiculous. Until last week, Palin wouldn't have known the answer to "what was the Weather Underground" if a moose pooped a hint in the seat of her snowmobile. I smell desperation.

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Part of me wants the Obama camp to take the high road on this, and another part wants to see McCain dragged through the dirt. I'd be happier with the high road. The Ayers thing is just ridiculous. Until last week, Palin wouldn't have known the answer to "what was the Weather Underground" if a moose pooped a hint in the seat of her snowmobile. I smell desperation.

I can't hide my bemusement that a secessionist is attacking Obama's patriotism...and that 'God Bless America' Republicans are listening to her without a hint of irony.

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I can't hide my bemusement that a secessionist is attacking Obama's patriotism...and that 'God Bless America' Republicans are listening to her without a hint of irony.

It is pretty funny. Could u imagine if Palin was a Democrat running on the Democratic ticket... her "sucessionist" background would be one of the biggest talking points with the GOP pounding how unAmerican she is.

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Part of me wants the Obama camp to take the high road on this, and another part wants to see McCain dragged through the dirt. I'd be happier with the high road. The Ayers thing is just ridiculous. Until last week, Palin wouldn't have known the answer to "what was the Weather Underground" if a moose pooped a hint in the seat of her snowmobile. I smell desperation.

I hope Obama goes all out negative. You can't be president of the USA without doing that. He'll lose the race if he takes the high road, and we'll be stuck with McCain and Palin. I can't imagine how much more they will screw up this country.

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I hope Obama goes all out negative.

I hope so too.

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Part of me wants the Obama camp to take the high road on this, and another part wants to see McCain dragged through the dirt. I'd be happier with the high road. The Ayers thing is just ridiculous. Until last week, Palin wouldn't have known the answer to "what was the Weather Underground" if a moose pooped a hint in the seat of her snowmobile. I smell desperation.

As much as I'm sure Obama and his campaign are highly tempted to take Sarah Palin's bait and slam McCain's campaign for the remarks, the best approach would be to take the high road, perhaps with the exception of a little quip at a campaign stop and that's it, and let Palin implode on herself politically should she decide to keep trying to offend and not try to announce more elaborate plans and options than Biden has on the Sunday morning circuit.

In my opinion, the mistake being made by a lot of Obama supporters is the notion (though not said directly) that Sarah Palin's terrorist comments were a "mistake", or not done on purpose. Part of her job is to get under Obama's skin and make him not focus on the issues. That way, McCain would seem more competent. People have to understand that as long as Palin's able to keep the attention on her, it helps her candidate because it'd mean attention diverted from her opponent. And yeah, it's dirty. But she's only sounded competent once on television since the RNC, and that opportunity will not come for her again (I'm referring to the VP debate.) The only way for her to keep up any momentum press-wise without doing any important interviews is to take he gloves off so-to-speak. All Obama has to do is focus on the economy, because a lot of Americans care more about their tax money right now than some Ayers guy that likes weather and got high repeatedly decades before DJ V Lawrence was born.

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As much as I'm sure Obama and his campaign are highly tempted to take Sarah Palin's bait and slam McCain's campaign for the remarks, the best approach would be to take the high road, perhaps with the exception of a little quip at a campaign stop and that's it, and let Palin implode on herself politically should she decide to keep trying to offend and not try to announce more elaborate plans and options than Biden has on the Sunday morning circuit.

In my opinion, the mistake being made by a lot of Obama supporters is the notion (though not said directly) that Sarah Palin's terrorist comments were a "mistake", or not done on purpose. Part of her job is to get under Obama's skin and make him not focus on the issues. That way, McCain would seem more competent. People have to understand that as long as Palin's able to keep the attention on her, it helps her candidate because it'd mean attention diverted from her opponent. And yeah, it's dirty. But she's only sounded competent once on television since the RNC, and that opportunity will not come for her again (I'm referring to the VP debate.) The only way for her to keep up any momentum press-wise without doing any important interviews is to take he gloves off so-to-speak. All Obama has to do is focus on the economy, because a lot of Americans care more about their tax money right now than some Ayers guy that likes weather and got high repeatedly decades before DJ V Lawrence was born.

Wrong and wrong. Obama cannot afford the mistakes of Dukakis and Kerry, "letting it slide". You come back at that slimeball McCain with both barrels, starting with his intimate knowledge of banking crises through the Keating Five. And, no, NO ONE believes Palin did this mistakenly. They warned us they were going negative, and she did. And, they should be buried for it.

Now, they shouldn't go after the traitor secessionist Palin, and her Alaska Independence Party member husband, Todd. Let the Democratic bloggers and surrogates point out that Palin wanted to make Alaska's oil "foeign oil". But, McCain needs to be exposed for the spineless dirtball that he is. And, by going after his Keating Five connections, they can attack McCain AND keep the recession and financial crisis in the news at the same time. Win-win for Obama.

Edited by RedScare

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Wrong and wrong. Obama cannot afford the mistakes of Dukakis and Kerry, "letting it slide". You come back at that slimeball McCain with both barrels, starting with his intimate knowledge of banking crises through the Keating Five. And, no, NO ONE believes Palin did this mistakenly. They warned us they were going negative, and she did. And, they should be buried for it.

Now, they shouldn't go after the traitor secessionist Palin, and her Alaska Independence Party member husband, Todd. Let the Democratic bloggers and surrogates point out that Palin wanted to make Alaska's oil "foeign oil". But, McCain needs to be exposed for the spineless dirtball that he is. And, by going after his Keating Five connections, they can attack McCain AND keep the recession and financial crisis in the news at the same time. Win-win for Obama.

I see what you're saying, and you've somewhat changed my mind. I get turned-off by dirty politics, but that's just part of the game and it's my bad for being naive just now. I guess the better way to put it is that if Obama were to attack McCain/Palin, it should be with substance-to-the-issues. Your example does just that. Palin's "terrorist association" attack absolutely lacked in substance to any issues that are of importance to Americans right now, and I think it's best if Obama and Biden avoid falling into that trap by trying to attack McCain/Palin with substance-less attacks.

Attacking the GOP with substance would definitely work though. Great point.

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I'm disgusted by negative campaigns, too. And, it is all the worse when you can see McCain fail at everything he tries, then warns us all, "here it comes! I'm bringing out the mud!" It is infuriating.

If it were me, I'd be tempted to run a bunch of ads asking how a POW can claim to have military experience. I'd show Palin saying, "McCain knows how to win wars", and point out that NO, he doesn't. We LOST in Vietnam!

Luckily, I am not a campaign advisor. I'd cost Obama the election. But, that is how disgusted I am with "honorable" John McCain. He exemplifies what is wrong with US politics. Divide the country. As long as you win.

Country First my ass!

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Looks like Obama camp took the smart road, addressing the number one issue economy and attacking John at the same time:

http://www.keatingeconomics.com/

To be unleashed at 12:00pm eastern time 10/06/08

Brilliant, and props to the use of technology too. This election, Obama has utilize the internet like no other. They even have a Obama TV channel just came up too. McCain ... well ... technology internet ... nevermind

Edited by webdude

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Now that is solid.

McCain's announcement yesterday that he was going to "turn the page on the economy" might have just sealed the election for the Dems. Seriously? A day after we were just told 159,000 jobs were lost bringing us to 9 straight months of job losses? 3 days after a tax-payer bailout of Wall Street? The same week that the stock market saw a historical one day drop?

I am beginning to wonder if McCain has early onset dementia...oh wait, he's too old to have that.

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I hope Obama goes all out negative. You can't be president of the USA without doing that. He'll lose the race if he takes the high road, and we'll be stuck with McCain and Palin. I can't imagine how much more they will screw up this country.

Looks like the gloves are off for both sides finally. Now, it should get good !

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7654311.stm

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Looks like the gloves are off for both sides finally. Now, it should get good !

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7654311.stm

Goodness! Props to Redscare for predicting this week's events in post #2028. You SURE you're not a campaign adviser, Red?

Obama cannot afford the mistakes of Dukakis and Kerry, "letting it slide". You come back at that slimeball McCain with both barrels, starting with his intimate knowledge of banking crises through the Keating Five. And, no, NO ONE believes Palin did this mistakenly. They warned us they were going negative, and she did. And, they should be buried for it.

Now, they shouldn't go after the traitor secessionist Palin, and her Alaska Independence Party member husband, Todd. Let the Democratic bloggers and surrogates point out that Palin wanted to make Alaska's oil "foeign oil". But, McCain needs to be exposed for the spineless dirtball that he is. And, by going after his Keating Five connections, they can attack McCain AND keep the recession and financial crisis in the news at the same time. Win-win for Obama.

But yo, TJones, what's your opinion on the Obama campaign's Keating Five charge in comparison to Palin's Bill Ayers charge, and do you see either as fair game?

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I know this is a petty, but she also cannot (like George Bush) pronounce NUCLEAR.

For heaven's sake!

It's NU-KLEE-ER!!!

How hard is that to say!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Jimmy Carter couldn't say it correctly either.

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Fair question DJ. Where as McCain was found of no wrong doing, and he has admittedly said that he made "a major flaw in judgement", he was a champion for campaign finance reform after he realized what he had done might be viewed as wrong. It is fair to bring it up to the American people, it is part of his past, and I think he should let the public decide whether he was wrong or whether he did no wrong, which is how the congressional commitee saw it.

Obama and his Communist buddies who just happened to be terrorists also ?? Hmm, that is a little harder pill to swallow for me, which I am sure is a BIG surprise to everyone on this forum. I told you about this Ayers guy a month ago, maybe more. The BBC article tries to play it off as Obama and Ayers were simply on a "Charity Board" together in Chicago, when in fact, Ayers is the one who threw Obama his "coming out" party in the Ayer's household. Obama has gushed about Ayers and how he idolized him growing up. Bill Ayers and Rev. Wright, just two examples of "poor judgement" by Obama.

McCain has the Keating 5 to live down, Obama has the Chairmen of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac helping him on policy matters to live down.

I think McCain is letting Palin do his dirty work for him at this point though. I will agree with Red that she should keep her cakehole shut when it comes to patriotism. SHe has no leg to stand on in that regard. I will stay the course though and tell y'all again, that Palin is by far the worst choice for a running mate EVER !

Edited by TJones

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It's a weak attack - guilt by association. Especially since Obama was only seven years old at the time. Bush gets a pass for palling around with Cuban terrorist Orlando Bosch and others. There are probably thousands of worse skeletons in McCain's closet, and his participation in the Keating Five scandal is merely one of them. As I said - weak attack.

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Things are getting bleak for McCain/Palin in the Mississippi of New England. The latest New Hampshire polls show Obama with a 53% to 40% lead. In the last 10 Presidential elections, New Hampshire has swung red 7 times; including for Bush in 2000. A Democrat hasn't won more than 50% of the votes in this state in 44 years.

McCain only has solid leads among gun-owners and pro-lifers whereas Obama has huge leads among women, the young, college graduates, self-described intellectuals, moderates, and lower income voters.

It's even worse for McCain/Palin in Virginia. Apparently, the latest SurveryUSA poll shows a 10% Obama lead coming out of the weekend. A gap that large can't be explained solely by the population growth in suburban DC.

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I honestly never heard of Bill Ayers before this campaign (I'm 26). Was it Bill Ayers:The Domestic Terrorist that supported Obama in 2001, or Bill Ayers:The University Professor/charity board member who Obama talked to?

And could someone here please clarify how someone who was deemed a terrorist is able to become a university professor, a board member for charity organizations? I mean, when I hear "terrorist", I think Osama Bin Laden or Timothy McVeigh. According to the article, no one was hurt in his organization's attacks. His group though did bomb multiple federal buildings including the Pentagon, which I would assume would be grounds for someone to get life in prison, yeah? (Might need Redscare's help in clarifying the legal part). But the charges were dropped after improper surveillance?

And was Obama's meeting Ayers bad judgement? I'm asking because that story and smear sounds REALLY stretched from the outside looking in.

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Yes.

Crackpots aside, DJ, Bill Ayers Terrorist/Professor are one in the same. Leopards don't change their spots, only reason Ayers isn't in jail now is because of some over zealous FBI agents.

Again, DJ, Obama claims to have idolized Bill Ayers. I will try and find the story again just for you.

Edited by TJones

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Leopards don't change their spots, only reason Ayers isn't in jail now is because of some over zealous FBI agents.

No.

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In an interview with conservative New York Times columnist William Kristol published Monday...

I guess there are no liberal columnists in main stream media. They're never pointed out. I guess everyone is either in the middle or on the right.

At a morning rally in Florida, Palin kept up her criticism of Obama's ties to Ayers, a founder of the violent Weather Underground group blamed for several bombings during the Vietnam War era, when Obama was a child.

I love how they keep throwing that in there.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6042452.html

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I honestly never heard of Bill Ayers before this campaign (I'm 26). Was it Bill Ayers:The Domestic Terrorist that supported Obama in 2001, or Bill Ayers:The University Professor/charity board member who Obama talked to?

And could someone here please clarify how someone who was deemed a terrorist is able to become a university professor, a board member for charity organizations? I mean, when I hear "terrorist", I think Osama Bin Laden or Timothy McVeigh. According to the article, no one was hurt in his organization's attacks. His group though did bomb multiple federal buildings including the Pentagon, which I would assume would be grounds for someone to get life in prison, yeah? (Might need Redscare's help in clarifying the legal part). But the charges were dropped after improper surveillance?

And was Obama's meeting Ayers bad judgement? I'm asking because that story and smear sounds REALLY stretched from the outside looking in.

Yeah, I would say someone setting of bombs at major buildings with lots of people in it should get someone life in prison. That's a terrorist in my book. I doubt anyone would want someone blowing up their house b/c they differed in viewpoints.

I wouldn't necessarily say Obama shares the same views or values as Ayers. But let's get personal. Would any one of us associate in any way with someone who blew up buildings? Seriously. I'd say that's bad judgment.

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I wouldn't necessarily say Obama shares the same views or values as Ayers. But let's get personal. Would any one of us associate in any way with someone who blew up buildings? Seriously. I'd say that's bad judgment.

What would you say of someone who associates with someone who broke into a rival political campaign's headquarters, proposed kidnapping activists and murdering journalists?

From the Chicago Tribune:

How close are McCain and Liddy? At least as close as Obama and Ayers appear to be. In 1998, Liddy's home was the site of a McCain fundraiser. Over the years, he has made at least four contributions totaling $5,000 to the senator's campaigns -- including $1,000 this year.

Last November, McCain went on his radio show. Liddy greeted him as "an old friend," and McCain sounded like one. "I'm proud of you, I'm proud of your family," he gushed. "It's always a pleasure for me to come on your program, Gordon, and congratulations on your continued success and adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great."

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What would you say of someone who associates with someone who broke into a rival political campaign's headquarters, proposed kidnapping activists and murdering journalists?

From the Chicago Tribune:

I'd say that is poor judgement as well.

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Crackpots aside, DJ, Bill Ayers Terrorist/Professor are one in the same. Leopards don't change their spots, only reason Ayers isn't in jail now is because of some over zealous FBI agents.

Again, DJ, Obama claims to have idolized Bill Ayers. I will try and find the story again just for you.

Thanks. I'm not too familiar with this Bill Ayers person.

My questions on the subject are:

1) How does "improper surveillance" get you off the hook for bombing multiple federal buildings? That's wild to me.

2) If a leopard doesn't change his spots, then how is Ayers now a university professor? Wouldn't that make him, like, um, a striped tiger or something?

3) Is Bill Ayers/Obama really as important a subject as McCain/Keating when the last month of the election is also in a month where the economy is dominating the headlines?

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