2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Obama (D-IL) vs. McCain (R-AZ)

[RedScare]

Fact check on Palin, McCain and others....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080904/ap_on_.../cvn_fact_check

[HtownWxBoy]

The more I listen to this Palin the more I DO NOT like her.

[houstonmacbro]

McCain was a POW???? Serious??

OK, I can't help myself. For starters, did anyone see the token black man in the audience for Ms Palin's speech? [Hint, famous football player who ran unsuccessfully for a governorship.]

Not a single bleat about issues. And her attempt at Obama jabs sounded like she was more interested in getting to the punchline than anything else. I think her talents would be better utilized doing something like ........fundraising.

And, in the 30 seconds she spent on her own political career, there was this little matter of her taking credit for something that is required by state charter, ie. oil an gas lease revenues returned to the state budget, and budget surplus kicked back to residents each fiscal year.

I actually watched Guiliani too. Not one mention yet of policy. All those old white people at the convention are getting off on Obama jokes; I hope they get some meat in McCain's speech tomorrow night, because it hasn't showed up yet.

Yeah, I think that is really telling. You have a country that no longer looks like the republican party.

[houstonmacbro]

Watching Katie Couric's interview last night with Mrs. McCain. Here are a couple of points she made:

1. She believes abortion should be an option in cases of rape or incest

2. She believes creationism should be an option and taught alongside science

3. She believe Roe vs. Wade shouldn't be overturned and should be left to the states.

Sounds like she disagrees a lot with her husband.

[musicman]

Sounds like she disagrees a lot with her husband.

and? life is boring if everyone agrees.

[houstonmacbro]

and? life is boring if everyone agrees.

Just interesting, that's all.

[Jeebus]

Sounds like she disagrees a lot with her husband.

Opposites attract?

[20thStDad]

Fact check on Palin, McCain and others....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080904/ap_on_.../cvn_fact_check

Some of those were interesting, but come on, labeling your responses "THE FACTS"?? All he did was put his own slant against the republican slant. Some of it was interesting, but most to me sounded like defensive whining.

side note: I'm find myself defending BOTH sides whenever I hear people go at them with the middle school cut downs. So much so that I am confusing myself and still am very undecided.

[editor]

I'm intentionally not following this thread, but I wanted to jump in here and make a note that many of the speeches from the Republican and Democratic conventions are on your cable company's VOD system.

I just watched last night's Palin speech on Comcast channel 1. There were lots of others in there, too.

I don't normally praise cable companies, but it's a good resource for people on the fence (as I am). The recordings are from CSPAN, so you don't have to worry about getting a sanitized version by viewing it on a particular political party's web site.

[westguy76]

Wow, this GOP ticket really has the dems on their heels.

They shot some nice holes into Obama last night and he is a big target and more will stick to him.

And he just doesn't have the ammo to fire back. Which is fine I just assume this election gets down to the issues sooner than later.

I just wanted to say to some of yall that just because you disagree with someone it doesn't make them a nut job. You should have learned that by the end of high school at least.

Of course you can think whatever you want of them and you can tell us.

I think Giuliani said this last night

"Well, no one can look at John McCain and say that he is not

ready to be commander in chief.

So, our opponents want to reframe the debate. They would have

you believe that this election is about change versus more of the

same. But that's really a false choice. Because "change" is not a

destination ... just as "hope" is not a strategy."

I loved it so true.

[RedScare]

Of course you can think whatever you want of them and you can tell us.

Thank you. I think I will take you up on that offer.

[wernicke]

Watching Katie Couric's interview last night with Mrs. McCain. Here are a couple of points she made:

1. She believes abortion should be an option in cases of rape or incest

-McCain has advocated changing the Republican platform to include exceptions for rape, incest, and the health of the mother up until late 2007, when he went quiet on the issue. Presumably he has flip-flopped to appease the party base, which has become a trend in the past year.

2. She believes creationism should be an option and taught alongside science

-Too bad the US Supreme Court has ruled teaching creationism is unconstitutional... but maybe if McCain/Palin get a couple more judges on there?

3. She believe Roe vs. Wade shouldn't be overturned and should be left to the states.

-You can't leave abortion up to the states without overturning Roe v. Wade.

Sounds like she disagrees a lot with her husband.

I wonder how she feels hopping on her private jet after Palin trash-talked private jets?

[MetroMogul]

I'd like to know the criteria for being "ready" to be Commander in Chief? I'd also like to know why Obama is lambasted for not meeting this mysterious criteria but somehow Sarah Palin is a smart choice despite having less "experience" than Barack Obama. The GOP argument is that Palin is the VP candidate, but in all reality, McCain will most likely become incapacitated while in office leaving this "hockey mom" in charge of the world's most powerful nation when her resume includes running a town of less than 5,000 and a state with a population less than that of many major cities.

Plus, she is a far right winger on policy and social issues but her daugher is pregnant at 17 and not married. That shows that she has little control over family affairs; how can I expect this woman to run a country of hundreds of millions when she can't even run a family of seven? She's a hypocrite in the same vein of many other politicians. "Do as I say, not as my teenage daughter does." She's under investigation for corruption charges stemming from her time as mayor of what equates to a small Houston suburb and as governor. Well, that's okay because Barack Obama has a "terrist" sounding name and was a community organizer/activist.

There's a litany of things wrong with Palin, but for some reason the AP ran a headline saying "A Star is Born." How? Why? When? These are the type of issues in any sane country that would have sank McCain's battleship, but in good old America we're ready to elect a man with a history of illnesses whose poor judgment led to one of the worst VP choices in recent memory because Barack Obama is somehow "not ready," and only speaks of hope and change instead of the real issues. Well, where does McCain stand on the issues? I hear more about his POW stint than anything on how he might run this country except a vague impression it'd be similar to what we have going on now but with a "babe" to take over in case he croaks. Wonderful.

[westguy76]

Thank you. I think I will take you up on that offer.

Well I didn't really finish that thought but by the childish retorts on this thread, people are really exposing their fears and insecurities by expounding on their opinions as if they were laced in logic instead of the truth.

[westguy76]

I'd like to know the criteria for being "ready" to be Commander in Chief? I'd also like to know why Obama is lambasted for not meeting this mysterious criteria but somehow Sarah Palin is a smart choice despite having less "experience" than Barack Obama. The GOP argument is that Palin is the VP candidate, but in all reality, McCain will most likely become incapacitated while in office leaving this "hockey mom" in charge of the world's most powerful nation when her resume includes running a town of less than 5,000 and a state with a population less than that of many major cities.

Plus, she is a far right winger on policy and social issues but her daugher is pregnant at 17 and not married. That shows that she has little control over family affairs; how can I expect this woman to run a country of hundreds of millions when she can't even run a family of seven? She's a hypocrite in the same vein of many other politicians. "Do as I say, not as my teenage daughter does." She's under investigation for corruption charges stemming from her time as mayor of what equates to a small Houston suburb and as governor. Well, that's okay because Barack Obama has a "terrist" sounding name and was a community organizer/activist.

There's a litany of things wrong with Palin, but for some reason the AP ran a headline saying "A Star is Born." How? Why? When? These are the type of issues in any sane country that would have sank McCain's battleship, but in good old America we're ready to elect a man with a history of illnesses whose poor judgment led to one of the worst VP choices in recent memory because Barack Obama is somehow "not ready," and only speaks of hope and change instead of the real issues. Well, where does McCain stand on the issues? I hear more about his POW stint than anything on how he might run this country except a vague impression it'd be similar to what we have going on now but with a "babe" to take over in case he croaks. Wonderful.

that is real weak.

The fact is if you had listened to the speeches last night you would have answered all your questions, aside from your bias.

I will not regurgitate all that.

but quickly.

Obama is running for president. questionable alliegances, spotty voting record, no real accomplishments. He has not led anyone, or dome much of anything while in the senate, no commitees, no sponsoring bills, and lots of PRESENT votes.

Palin is now the VP nominee. has been mayor, govenor, has fought coruption in her own party, has pushed for drilling, etc. has done things, held executive office.

John McCains record is there. It has not been attacked because it is uncomprimising. It is based in his principals, you may disagree with these. Fine vote and be counted.

The things you think are "wrong" with Palin, what are they? Are they Idealological issues that you disagree with? Well these are not her faults. If you disagree with this ticket VOTE.

(this post is my opinion based on things I believe to be true, these things may not be true, but they are to me. If you do not agree with me that is OK, I approve this message)

[memebag]

Well I didn't really finish that thought but by the childish retorts on this thread, people are really exposing their fears and insecurities by expounding on their opinions as if they were laced in logic instead of the truth.

Whoa. Are you smoking a lot of meth right now?

[lockmat]

I wonder how she feels hopping on her private jet after Palin trash-talked private jets?

What did she say about them?

Do we really exepect a potential VP to fly commercial or use Amtrak? Who is funding their jet anyway, the govt or fundraising money?

edit: found it

While I was at it, I got rid of a few things in the governor's office that I didn't believe our citizens should have to pay for.

That luxury jet was over the top. I put it on eBay.

But I would still like to know if taxes or donors pay for their jet.

[editor]

WestGuy, Memebag, et.al., -- stick to the issues. Talk about the candidates. Do not talk about each other.

[memebag]

WestGuy, Memebag, et.al., -- stick to the issues. Talk about the candidates. Do not talk about each other.

My post wasn't about westguy, but about his statement: "Well I didn't really finish that thought but by the childish retorts on this thread, people are really exposing their fears and insecurities by expounding on their opinions as if they were laced in logic instead of the truth."

If anyone else can help me parse it, please chime in. If my opinions are laced in anything, it's cheese.

[Mark F. Barnes]

I wonder how she feels hopping on her private jet after Palin trash-talked private jets?

Big Difference!

McCain Own's her plane, not the tax payers. Palin just figured the Governor didn't need a Westwind II, when she could just as easy fly commercial. The state could use 2.1 million elsewhere. Palin Didn't trash talk "private jets" she just said the Gov of AK didn't need one. That's it, nothing more. So she sold it to Larry Reynolds for $2,100,000, and put the money to better use. What's wrong with that? If you are going to try and pick apart the speech at least stick to the facts.

[TJones]

Two things I realized while listening to Palin tonight.

1) I am truly embarrassed for the GOP. Back in the days when I was in the GOP, the GOP put forth leaders that were businessmen and foreign policy experts. They were arrogant, but it was because they knew what they were doing. Now, the GOP wants to run people that are "just your average hockey mom". What is the GOP obsession with such mediocre candidates? I want my elected officials to lead, not have a beer with me.

Pardon me, it seems that your Donkey party has propped up the same type of candidate, except he has NO business experience nor is he a foreign policy expert, but he has the arrogant thing going for him without the "knowing what he is doing." part. So you should be embarrased for your party also. Is this why you changed parties, you didn't like the GOP putting up candidates that had some sort of real world experience ?

[westguy76]

My post wasn't about westguy, but about his statement: "Well I didn't really finish that thought but by the childish retorts on this thread, people are really exposing their fears and insecurities by expounding on their opinions as if they were laced in logic instead of the truth."

If anyone else can help me parse it, please chime in. If my opinions are laced in anything, it's cheese.

Cheese is better for you than Meth.

I thought Palin, Giuliani did well, Huckabee OK. I think Romney is a horrible speaker and not sincere and genuine in his words, Is that better?

[lockmat]

Pardon me, it seems that your Donkey party has propped up the same type of candidate, exept he has NO business experience nor is he a foreign policy expert, but he has the arrogant thing going for him without the "knowing what he is doing." part. So you should be embarrased for your party also. Is this why you changed parties, you didn't like the GOP putting up candidates that had some sort of real world experience ?

This type of thing has been said just as much as, "that's not change, it's just more of the same." It's beating a dead horse and they'll never accept it.

Heck, McCain doesn't have any executive experience either. I think it comes down to what Guliani said last night about good change and bad change. It's up to moderates to choose which they think will be the better change.

[TJones]

This type of thing has been said just as much as, "that's not change, it's just more of the same." It's beating a dead horse and they'll never accept it.

Heck, McCain doesn't have any executive experience either. I think it comes down to what Guliani said last night about good change and bad change. It's up to moderates to choose which they think will be the better change.

lockmat, there is always that .000000000000000001% chance that it might click in their heads if told to thm enough times. At least that is my strategy. Especially since Red is a former Republican, there is always HOPE that he can return from the Darkside, but then again, "HOPE is NOT a strategy".

[westguy76]

This type of thing has been said just as much as, "that's not change, it's just more of the same." It's beating a dead horse and they'll never accept it.

Heck, McCain doesn't have any executive experience either. I think it comes down to what Guliani said last night about good change and bad change. It's up to moderates to choose which they think will be the better change.

This is true.

Heck I even know lots of people who do want more of the same.

I am sure that just blows people's minds especially on this forum.

[memebag]

I thought Palin, Giuliani did well, Huckabee OK. I think Romney is a horrible speaker and not sincere and genuine in his words, Is that better?

No, it doesn't really clarify anything about the lace.

I was surprised at how well Palin did last night. I thought she'd look frightened by what has happened in the last week, but if she is, she's hiding it well.

[editor]

What I find interesting is that the election is not McCain v. Obama and Palin v. Biden.

Now, especially after last night's speech, it's McCain v. Obama and Palin v. Obama. Biden has been marginalized into a non-factor and the Republicans are now going two-on-one against Obama since now even the GOP's veep candidate has more experience than the Dems presidential candidate.

I'm not saying one way is better than the other because I'm still a swing vote, but I think it's an interesting strategy.

I'd mostly lost interest in the election until Palin jumped into the ring. I think now it's going to be more interesting.

[sarahiki]

No, it doesn't really clarify anything about the lace.

I was surprised at how well Palin did last night. I thought she'd look frightened by what has happened in the last week, but if she is, she's hiding it well.

I agree. She did really well. She's a little scary to me; she looks all cute and appealing, and appears to be talking about nice things like small towns and families. But her comments were mocking and snide. She actually made a mocking joke out of Habeas corpus... as though principles like a right to a fair trial are a joke, instead of something Americans should be proud of. She also mocked Obama's interest in diplomacy, which makes me think she's as ready to go to war as GWB. She even criticized Obama for not using the word "victory" in reference to our current wars. Could that be because we haven't won? I feel like she's trying to stir-up the "nuke all those towel-heads" kind of sentiment. In those kinds of remarks, she is appealing to people's basest impulses with cheap humor. To me, that kind of tawdry patriotism is a strong contrast to the Dem message that Americans are more than that, and are a great people with a capacity for doing good in our country and in the world.

She actually made me feel a little sick to my stomach.

I know plenty of you will chew me up for that kind of idealism, but that's my response. I'm not trying to convince you.

[wernicke]

Now, especially after last night's speech, it's McCain v. Obama and Palin v. Obama. Biden has been marginalized into a non-factor and the Republicans are now going two-on-one against Obama since now even the GOP's veep candidate has more experience than the Dems presidential candidate.

Funny... I was thinking Palin herself has far overshadowed candidate McCain, who we haven't heard anything about since he selected Palin. Other than the fact that he only met her once, and his campaign didn't start looking at her until late in the process when they sealed the nomination up in March.

[wernicke]

Big Difference!

McCain Own's her plane, not the tax payers.

Except for the inconvenient fact that McCain has used her jet for political-related business.

McCain Frequently Used His Wife's Jet for Political Activities

The senator was able to fly so inexpensively because the law specifically exempts aircraft owned by a candidate or his family or by a privately held company they control. The Federal Election Commission adopted rules in December to close the loophole