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2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Obama (D-IL) vs. McCain (R-AZ)

Next United States President  

107 members have voted

  1. 1. Pick One

    • Barack Obama
      54
    • John McCain
      46
    • Other
      7


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Seriously, wow, did you see her interview with Hannity!?!? OMG I was waiting for him to ask her what her favorite color is! What a joke!! HA HA HA HA

I was waiting for Hannity to ask Palin out...

Obama continuing to go further ahead in the polls... not good for McCain as we are getting closer to election day... Gallup now has Obama up 50% to 44%. :D

I know I've said it many times before, but the polls do not matter right now with the exception of the fact that we had the Presidential Forum on Sept. 11. The first true poll of substance will be the day after the first debate, which IIRC will be this coming Thursday, and even that will be temporary. A more reliable source to see how people will vote is to listen to what's being said around the water coolers at work, yo.

Just to show you how unreliable the poll numbers are, look at how the poll numbers are so different on CNN, Fox News Channel, and MSNBC on the same night. One's more moderate, one's a far-right, and the other's leanin' to the left, to the left (Big-up to Beyonce). I remember a couple weeks ago, CNN had Obama leading McCain by 2%, MSNBC had Obama leading by over 4%, and Fox News had McCain leading by 3%.

Don't forget that some of these networks have their own agenda or target audience

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Even though McCain says "The issue of economics is not something I
Edited by TJones

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I was waiting for Hannity to ask Palin out...

I know I've said it many times before, but the polls do not matter right now with the exception of the fact that we had the Presidential Forum on Sept. 11. The first true poll of substance will be the day after the first debate, which IIRC will be this coming Thursday, and even that will be temporary. A more reliable source to see how people will vote is to listen to what's being said around the water coolers at work, yo.

Just to show you how unreliable the poll numbers are, look at how the poll numbers are so different on CNN, Fox News Channel, and MSNBC on the same night. One's more moderate, one's a far-right, and the other's leanin' to the left, to the left (Big-up to Beyonce). I remember a couple weeks ago, CNN had Obama leading McCain by 2%, MSNBC had Obama leading by over 4%, and Fox News had McCain leading by 3%.

Don't forget that some of these networks have their own agenda or target audience

Hannity is more Ann Coulter's type... and as for polls... I like to follow the daily Gallup poll... it's usually less "bias" than others... more reliable I think.

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Umm.....Htown....you are in direct violation of Trae's rules, you are NOT, I repeat, NOT to look at the Gallup polls as they do not hold any real substance anymore. They mean nothing, they are a figment of the publics imagination. Tell him Trae.

I'll look at them if I want to so :P . he he he

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Regarding Raines, McCain's ads are lying:

...

Obama's campaign says Raines is not an Obama adviser and that McCain's campaign knows it because Raines said so in an e-mail earlier this week to Carly Fiorina, a top McCain adviser. Obama's campaign provided The Associated Press with a copy of the e-mail.

"Carly: Is this true?" Raines asks above a forwarded note informing him that Fiorina was on television saying he was an Obama housing adviser. "I am not an adviser to the Obama campaign. Frank."

Obama's campaign says Fiorina did not respond.

McCain spokesman Brian Rogers said he was not aware of the e-mail to Fiorina, but noted that the Post reported on three occasions, between July 16 and Aug. 28, that Raines was advising Obama.

"If he was not advising, obviously someone somewhere along the way should have corrected the record," Rogers said.

Obama spokesman Bill Burton said he has since asked the Post for a correction. Burton said Obama only met Raines once briefly at an event, and that Raines sought an introductory meeting with Obama Senate aide Mike Strautmanis. At that meeting, Burton said no advice was sought from or given by Raines, who also had served as President Clinton's budget director.

...

Link

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Regarding Raines, McCain's ads are lying:

Link

Raines himself said that Obama has called him for advice. I guess you'll say that Obama has never heard of Gorelick either, and we all know Obama has never slammed some Stoli with Bill Ayers while discussing how the old USSR was so great. :rolleyes:

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Hannity is more Ann Coulter's type...

I highly doubt that lol. During the Republican Primaries (dunno if it's on youtube or not), Ann Coulter said on Hannity & Colmes that if it came down to McCain vs. Clinton, she would vote for Clinton, because she didn't like McCain and didn't consider him as conservative as Clinton. To which Colmes replied, "I quit."

and as for polls... I like to follow the daily Gallup poll... it's usually less "bias" than others... more reliable I think.

I'm not too familiar with the gallup polls because I've been allergic to polls for quite some time. Every time I see one, I sneeze. Ah-choo!

But oye, where's the source of the Daily Gallup polls? Are they independent?

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Here's a funny cartoon making fun of Palin's "former" religion... apparently they speak in tongues and stuff... :wacko:

po080909.gif

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Raines himself said that Obama has called him for advice. I guess you'll say that Obama has never heard of Gorelick either, and we all know Obama has never slammed some Stoli with Bill Ayers while discussing how the old USSR was so great. :rolleyes:

It's doesn't matter any more, TJ. If this whole economic meltdown were just Fannie/Freddie... McCain might have something on Obama. Tax payers will be on the hook for what could be up to 2 TRILLION $$$; taking all the garbage off the books of all kinds of banks, investment banks, etc, etc. Fannie/Freddie will just be small portion of what the ultimate cost will be for this mess... even more scary is that Paulson today indicated (somewhat indirectly) on "This Week" that he didn't really know if the bailout plan would work.

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Good lord, I stopped reading this thread two or three weeks ago because it started reminding me of the chron.com forums. All it took was one click of the mouse and a quick scrolling through to remind me why.

This thread is just like McDonald's. It's always in my face, every now and again I'm lured in by the scent, and every time I try to chomp into a so-called burger or so-called chicken nuggets, I'm disgusted, remember why I don't eat there, promptly dispose of my food and leave...destined to be lured in once again after a long while.

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What the hell is everyone panicking about? The fundamentals of the economy are strong.

Edited by webdude

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It's doesn't matter any more, TJ. If this whole economic meltdown were just Fannie/Freddie... McCain might have something on Obama. Tax payers will be on the hook for what could be up to 2 TRILLION $$$; taking all the garbage off the books of all kinds of banks, investment banks, etc, etc. Fannie/Freddie will just be small portion of what the ultimate cost will be for this mess... even more scary is that Paulson today indicated (somewhat indirectly) on "This Week" that he didn't really know if the bailout plan would work.

Yet if this Johnson/Raines shoe was on the Republican foot, you'd be crying " SEE SEE, MORE OF THE SAME, MORE OF THE SAME !!!"

It is amazing how when it isn't in your guy's favor, "it doesn't matter anymore." These are the guys advising Obama on how to conduct business for the next 4 years if he is elected, and "it doesn't matter anymore" ?

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Yet if this Johnson/Raines shoe was on the Republican foot, you'd be crying " SEE SEE, MORE OF THE SAME, MORE OF THE SAME !!!"

It is amazing how when it isn't in your guy's favor, "it doesn't matter anymore." These are the guys advising Obama on how to conduct business for the next 4 years if he is elected, and "it doesn't matter anymore" ?

It doesn't... We are so far up the river on this whole Wall Street mess... it just doesn't matter any more...

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Here's one for self-hating gay Republicans, the so-called Christian right, and anti-gay Palin lovers:

Hypocrisy Bombshell: Antigay John McCain has a Gay Chief of Staff

What does John McCain

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Yet if this Johnson/Raines shoe was on the Republican foot, you'd be crying " SEE SEE, MORE OF THE SAME, MORE OF THE SAME !!!"

It is amazing how when it isn't in your guy's favor, "it doesn't matter anymore." These are the guys advising Obama on how to conduct business for the next 4 years if he is elected, and "it doesn't matter anymore" ?

Yo TJones, which part of Washington do you feel could have done most to prevent the fallout of Fannie/Freddie, and do you feel that McCain would provide a better economic policy than Obama at this point? If so, how?

And to anyone that's supporting Obama, same question. I am aware of the fact that Obama suspended releasing his economic policy because of Fannie/Freddie/AIG/etc. (I'm sure McCain would be revising his as well because this is a definite change in the financial landscape. Fair is fair, and revision would have to be necessary for both). Do Obama supporters blame Bush for lack of structure, or the Legislative Branch who currently has a lower approval rating than the President?

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Yo TJones, which part of Washington do you feel could have done most to prevent the fallout of Fannie/Freddie, and do you feel that McCain would provide a better economic policy than Obama at this point? If so, how?

And to anyone that's supporting Obama, same question. I am aware of the fact that Obama suspended releasing his economic policy because of Fannie/Freddie/AIG/etc. (I'm sure McCain would be revising his as well because this is a definite change in the financial landscape. Fair is fair, and revision would have to be necessary for both). Do Obama supporters blame Bush for lack of structure, or the Legislative Branch who currently has a lower approval rating than the President?

I blame the deregulation folks, no matter what party they belong to. I used to be one of those folks, but about 20 years ago I saw where that was headed and jumped ship.

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I blame Fannie and Freddie for their GREED and backing loans to people that shouldn't have had them in the first place. Predatory lending aside, people with shady credit were given a third and sometimes FOURTH chance to try and help kickstart their credit. They got these ARM loans and were given a 2 year or 3 year grace period to pay off the rest of their bad debt and then refi their ARMs before they came due. As usual, these Bogues had no intention of paying ANYONE and rode out the loan for about a year and a half or two years and then decided to not pay anymore or when the ARM came due they couldn't refi and the rate almost doubled in some cases because now their credit has gotten worse because instead of paying anyone off they decided to go use the $3000 to $4000 they were saving to go buy a new car or truck.

DJ, there really is no part of Govt. that could have prevented this. Fannie and Freddie were Corporations, businesses owned by shareholders that did not have to answer to Govt. in a capitalist society. The problem here is that the top 3 or 4 tiers were looting the vault and just like Enron, they were taking the money without anyone being the wiser because the books were being cooked.

If Govt. was going to step in, they should have as soon as they saw the trend, not wait until this Titanic's smoke stack was the only thing sticking out of the water. Now, we have a very scary trend of much BIGGER Govt. Big Brother will be watching from here on out, and if Obama is elected, this recent turn of events has made it that much easier for him to carry out his socialist agenda, because this is proof that without regulation, greedy people cannot govern themselves.

EDIT: I am not saying there weren't some with every intention of getting their credit straightened out during their grace period, things happen, people get sick, people lose jobs, people die, business changes for some. I get that, I was almost one of these people, I learned a valuable lesson, and a mistake that I won't make again.

Edited by TJones

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To be honest, neither Obama NOR McCain would be doing things too much differently right now if they were in power (regarding the $700 billion bailout). Both of them are in the pocket of lobbyist money and are too connected with the movers and shakers on Wall Street and in places like the Cayman Islands.

That's why I voted for Kucinich and that's why some people jumped on the Paul train. Unfortunately, TRUE outsiders don't stand a chance when the average American gets their "news" from break-ins during American Idol.

AND, our so-called Democracy doesn't allow alternative voices at the table. Where will the voices of the Libertarian, Green, Natural Law or other Independent parties be heard? They won't be.

I voted for Nader in 2000 because I BELIEVE what he says. I am tempted to vote for him again unless Obama starts showing more backbone. I have no hope for McCain's standing up against big-monied interests.

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So my question is this, What do you accomplish by voting for an idiot like Ralph Nadar? You might as well not vote at all, that's a throw away vote. Ralph Nader, Jello Biafra, Stephen Gaskin, Joel Kovel, Ross Perot, whoever, those are throw away votes. Do you actually think there is some chance in hell that they could be elected? Honestly? The big government machine will never let it happen. So what good has been done out of casting that vote? Just curious.....

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DJ, there really is no part of Govt. that could have prevented this. Fannie and Freddie were Corporations, businesses owned by shareholders that did not have to answer to Govt. in a capitalist society.

Luckily we don't live in a "capitalist society", and the government can regulate lending.

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Luckily we don't live in a "capitalist society", and the government can regulate lending.

They could have regulated it, but decided not too, didn't they. Somebody was getting a kickback.

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So my question is this, What do you accomplish by voting for an idiot like Ralph Nadar? You might as well not vote at all, that's a throw away vote. Ralph Nader, Jello Biafra, Stephen Gaskin, Joel Kovel, Ross Perot, whoever, those are throw away votes. Do you actually think there is some chance in hell that they could be elected? Honestly? The big government machine will never let it happen. So what good has been done out of casting that vote? Just curious.....

Why vote for Obama? In Texas? That's also a throw-away vote... People don't vote on whether or not their votes will be "thrown away" - they vote for those they feel best represents their interests. At the end of the day, no votes are thrown away - just counted. ... Unless you live in FL...

People who vote for Nader, Ron Paul, and all the others know exactly what they're doing - which is no different than what you do.

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One thing to remember about the Polls, is that many young people (25 and under), don't have land lines anymore. Cell numbers are not called, so the telephone calls will not reflect many of the younger voters, and mostly, Obama voters.

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One thing to remember about the Polls, is that many young people (25 and under), don't have land lines anymore. Cell numbers are not called, so the telephone calls will not reflect many of the younger voters, and mostly, Obama voters.

Actually, good polling will take this into account (and will make adjustments as necessary to count the under 25 cell phone vote)... CNN discussed this once.

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To be honest, neither Obama NOR McCain would be doing things too much differently right now if they were in power (regarding the $700 billion bailout). Both of them are in the pocket of lobbyist money and are too connected with the movers and shakers on Wall Street and in places like the Cayman Islands.

That's why I voted for Kucinich and that's why some people jumped on the Paul train. Unfortunately, TRUE outsiders don't stand a chance when the average American gets their "news" from break-ins during American Idol.

AND, our so-called Democracy doesn't allow alternative voices at the table. Where will the voices of the Libertarian, Green, Natural Law or other Independent parties be heard? They won't be.

I voted for Nader in 2000 because I BELIEVE what he says. I am tempted to vote for him again unless Obama starts showing more backbone. I have no hope for McCain's standing up against big-monied interests.

True. When the advisors to BOTH candidates come from the same group that created the deregulated free-for-all that Wall Street financial markets had become, there is no rational basis for believing EITHER candidate will propose a workable solution to the mess. The only difference between the two candidates seems to be that one is hardly saying anything because he doesn't know how to fix it (Obama), and the other is proposing contradictory solutions to different groups because he doesn't know what he is talking about (McCain).

Hardly inspires confidence in the next 4 years.

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For those worried about Governor Palin's lack of experience w/ regard to foreign policy.... you can all relax... a little over a month before possibly being elected Vice President of the United States she has today met for the first time in her life w/ foreign leaders!! Combine that w/ the fact that she can wave to Russians from her front porch in Alaska and there's no doubt she is ready to be second in line to the Presidency!! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

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For those worried about Governor Palin's lack of experience w/ regard to foreign policy.... you can all relax... a little over a month before possibly being elected Vice President of the United States she has today met for the first time in her life w/ foreign leaders!! Combine that w/ the fact that she can wave to Russians from her front porch in Alaska and there's no doubt she is ready to be second in line to the Presidency!! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Oh, I feel so much better, knowing that Hamid Karzai talked to Gov. Palin about his son. Oh, and she has a passport, too!

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Oh, I feel so much better, knowing that Hamid Karzai talked to Gov. Palin about his son. Oh, and she has a passport, too!

A passport?.... someone please give that woman a key to the oval office!

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True. When the advisors to BOTH candidates come from the same group that created the deregulated free-for-all that Wall Street financial markets had become, there is no rational basis for believing EITHER candidate will propose a workable solution to the mess. The only difference between the two candidates seems to be that one is hardly saying anything because he doesn't know how to fix it (Obama), and the other is proposing contradictory solutions to different groups because he doesn't know what he is talking about (McCain).

Hardly inspires confidence in the next 4 years.

I don't know about that. They have both been proposing ideas. McCain seems overwhelmed by the crisis, like when he suggested that, as President, he'd fire the chair of the SEC (impossible) and then fire the head of the FEC (completely unrelated). I think Obama has been intentionally low-key on the issue as to avoid overreaching and politicizing a crisis issue.

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For those worried about Governor Palin's lack of experience w/ regard to foreign policy.... you can all relax... a little over a month before possibly being elected Vice President of the United States she has today met for the first time in her life w/ foreign leaders!! Combine that w/ the fact that she can wave to Russians from her front porch in Alaska and there's no doubt she is ready to be second in line to the Presidency!! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

You have to give her kudos for her ability to see 1000's of miles from eastern AK to the easternmost tip of Russia. I guess she also believes the earth is flat?

So my question is this, What do you accomplish by voting for an idiot like Ralph Nadar? You might as well not vote at all, that's a throw away vote. Ralph Nader, Jello Biafra, Stephen Gaskin, Joel Kovel, Ross Perot, whoever, those are throw away votes. Do you actually think there is some chance in hell that they could be elected? Honestly? The big government machine will never let it happen. So what good has been done out of casting that vote? Just curious.....

How else would someone like George W. Bush get elected?

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You have to give her kudos for her ability to see 1000's of miles from eastern AK to the easternmost tip of Russia. I guess she also believes the earth is flat?

Hmmm... not sure, I know conservatives tend to believe crazy things... like that me and my fellow gays want to eat their children. :wacko:

Edited by HtownWxBoy

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Hmmm... not sure, I know conservatives tend to believe crazy things... like that me and my fellow gays want to eat their children. :wacko:

Everyone knows it's the self-loathing conservatives who really want to eat their children ^_^ .

Edited by barracuda

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Everyone knows it's the self-loathing conservatives who really want to eat their children ^_^ .

Well duh, but it's the conservative way to blame everything on the (insert minority group name here).

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So my question is this, What do you accomplish by voting for an idiot like Ralph Nadar? You might as well not vote at all, that's a throw away vote. Ralph Nader, Jello Biafra, Stephen Gaskin, Joel Kovel, Ross Perot, whoever, those are throw away votes. Do you actually think there is some chance in hell that they could be elected? Honestly? The big government machine will never let it happen. So what good has been done out of casting that vote? Just curious.....

I don't consider any vote a throw away vote. Why do I have to choose either a Democrat or a Republican? Where is that the written law? Additionally, I do NOT consider Ralph Nader an idiot.

Nader supports a single payer national health insurance program. I do too.

Nader wants to adopt a carbon pullution tax to generate revenue and help us reduce carbon emissions. Sounds good to me.

Nader wants to adopt a Wall Street securities speculation tax. That sounds BRILLIANT right about now.

Nader wants to end corporate personhood within the judicial system. I agree.

Nader supports the National Initiative which brings TRUE democracy to the people. I fully support this idea.

Nader wants to reverse tort "deform" and bring justice back to consumers. Hard to argue with that unless you've fallen for the lobbyist spam.

Nader wants to open up political debates and end ballot obstructionism at the State level largely controlled by the Dems and Repubs. Why shouldn't alternative voices be heard?

In the end, while I do not agree with everything Nader stands for, I do TRUST him and KNOW that he is not profiting off of policy making like the other 99.99% of politicians.

The entire idea of a throw-away vote is another bi-product of the two party system that I simply don't buy.

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You have to give her kudos for her ability to see 1000's of miles from eastern AK to the easternmost tip of Russia. I guess she also believes the earth is flat?

How else would someone like George W. Bush get elected?

Quit showing your ignorance while trying to be cute and belittle the lady. It's 72 miles from Wales AK to Naukan Russia. And if you want to take in consideration of Little Diomede and Big Diomede, the USA and Russia is only 2.4 miles apart technically. It's not 1000's of miles at it''s farthest points, so at least try and sound competent when making fun of someone who has managed to do something successful with their life. Geography 101

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I don't consider any vote a throw away vote. Why do I have to choose either a Democrat or a Republican? Where is that the written law? Additionally, I do NOT consider Ralph Nader an idiot.

Nader supports a single payer national health insurance program. I do too.

Nader wants to adopt a carbon pullution tax to generate revenue and help us reduce carbon emissions. Sounds good to me.

Nader wants to adopt a Wall Street securities speculation tax. That sounds BRILLIANT right about now.

Nader wants to end corporate personhood within the judicial system. I agree.

Nader supports the National Initiative which brings TRUE democracy to the people. I fully support this idea.

Nader wants to reverse tort "deform" and bring justice back to consumers. Hard to argue with that unless you've fallen for the lobbyist spam.

Nader wants to open up political debates and end ballot obstructionism at the State level largely controlled by the Dems and Repubs. Why shouldn't alternative voices be heard?

In the end, while I do not agree with everything Nader stands for, I do TRUST him and KNOW that he is not profiting off of policy making like the other 99.99% of politicians.

The entire idea of a throw-away vote is another bi-product of the two party system that I simply don't buy.

Kink re-read my question, I never even insinuated that it was any kind of law, I just simply asked what you were trying to accomplish by voting for an idiot like Ralph Nadar? And you can think what you want about old Ralph, and I am not going to get in a pissing match over his pro's and con's, we both know he'll never be President, so why bother. You want to start a thread on Nadar, I might try to enlighten you of all the ignorant crap he's been responsible for in his worthless self serving life. You answered my original question good enough. Like I said Just Curious.

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Quit showing your ignorance while trying to be cute and belittle the lady. It's 72 miles from Wales AK to Naukan Russia. And if you want to take in consideration of Little Diomede and Big Diomede, the USA and Russia is only 2.4 miles apart technically. It's not 1000's of miles at it''s farthest points, so at least try and sound competent when making fun of someone who has managed to do something successful with their life. Geography 101

Sounds like someone didn't watch Saturday Night Live recently.

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And you can think what you want about old Ralph, and I am not going to get in a pissing match over his pro's and con's, we both know he'll never be President, so why bother.

And with that attitude, that's why politics in America is dead and worthless.

You want to start a thread on Nadar, I might try to enlighten you of all the ignorant crap he's been responsible for in his worthless self serving life.

I'd be interested in hearing more about his worthless life. I have always been a fan of his ideas. Maybe a thread's in order.

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Quit showing your ignorance while trying to be cute and belittle the lady. It's 72 miles from Wales AK to Naukan Russia. And if you want to take in consideration of Little Diomede and Big Diomede, the USA and Russia is only 2.4 miles apart technically. It's not 1000's of miles at it''s farthest points, so at least try and sound competent when making fun of someone who has managed to do something successful with their life. Geography 101

True, but Juneau is in southeastern AK and much closer to Canada. It's a loooooooooong way from Russia.

And with that attitude, that's why politics in America is dead and worthless.

I think Ralph Nader is a great consumer advocate, but I would find it hard to support him for President. To me he seems about as authoritarian and strident as they come. He makes a great attack dog against corporate wrong-doers, but I don't think he has the diplomatic skills to be President.

Edited by barracuda

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Quit showing your ignorance while trying to be cute and belittle the lady. It's 72 miles from Wales AK to Naukan Russia. And if you want to take in consideration of Little Diomede and Big Diomede, the USA and Russia is only 2.4 miles apart technically. It's not 1000's of miles at it''s farthest points, so at least try and sound competent when making fun of someone who has managed to do something successful with their life. Geography 101

If Barracuda needs a Geography 101 class, then you need a remedial reading comprehension class.

Go back a re-read what was typed in that post. Here's a hint; Wales, AK is in far WESTERN Alaska...

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Quit showing your ignorance while trying to be cute and belittle the lady. It's 72 miles from Wales AK to Naukan Russia. And if you want to take in consideration of Little Diomede and Big Diomede, the USA and Russia is only 2.4 miles apart technically. It's not 1000's of miles at it''s farthest points, so at least try and sound competent when making fun of someone who has managed to do something successful with their life. Geography 101

Are you claiming that Palin is successful because she's far-sighted? ^_^

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If Barracuda needs a Geography 101 class, then you need a remedial reading comprehension class.

Go back a re-read what was typed in that post. Here's a hint; Wales, AK is in far WESTERN Alaska...

My bad it's 1217 miles from Juneau AK to Nuakan, Russia

You two keep grasping at straws, see you at the polls.

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