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2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Obama (D-IL) vs. McCain (R-AZ)


Trae

Next United States President  

107 members have voted

  1. 1. Pick One

    • Barack Obama
      54
    • John McCain
      46
    • Other
      7


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What kind of future does and 11 y/o with a child have to look forward to?

And what kind of future does her baby have? None.

It's only within more relative recent times that we've waiting so long into age to have children. It's not as if it can't be done. Besides, if Obama gets elected, I'm sure he'll take care of her.

Empathy doesn't require physically experiencing the event. You can try and empathize with an 11 y/o girl trying to raise a bastard kid without having been pregnant yourself. I imagine it would bring feelings of humiliation, powerlessness, anger, despair, etc. What kind of future does and 11 y/o with a child have to look forward to? But alas, since you claim you cannot empathize, I guess it's impossible to relate to this situation. You would rather have the government tell the kid what she can and cannot do with her own body. Way to sympathize.

And I said I do sympathize with the girl. How come you're ignoring that? I don't think we're agreeing on what it means to empathize.

I'm also asking the govt. to regulate what she can do with her body, b/c someone has to defend her baby. Just like we have a law to prevent people from killing people outside the womb. Just thinking about the mother is ignoring the rights of the baby.

edit: Another thought. If the girl decides to have the baby and then after having it realizes that her life is "over" should she have the right to kill it after it has been born?

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McCain is not as much for the wealthy as he is defending them.

Why should they be punished for making more money.

I think some fail to see that there will always be someone who makes more or less than you. There's nothing wrong with that. Also, without the super rich, the poor wouldn't even have jobs. Who do we think is paying and creating positions those with less paying jobs?

The super wealthy folks are benefiting the most from centuries of investments by the federal government. I wouldn't say they should be taxed exorbitantly in a lop-sided scale, but they can afford to carry more of a tax burden than productive middle class folks who have bills piling up.

Since the burden shifts back and forth between economic groups depending on which party is in charge, I would likely support a flat percentage tax starting above poverty, as that seems like the fairest form of income tax distribution.

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The super wealthy folks are benefiting the most from centuries of investments by the federal government. I wouldn't say they should be taxed exorbitantly in a lop-sided scale, but they can afford to carry more of a tax burden than productive middle class folks who have bills piling up.

Since the burden shifts back and forth between economic groups depending on which party is in charge, I would likely support a flat percentage tax starting above poverty, as that seems like the fairest form of income tax distribution.

I don't like percentages. I think most can agree that our current system or a variation of it is not that great.

Alaska article on Palin playing along with calling a local politician a "cancer" and a "b***".

Just reinforces the amateur-hour theme.

This is serious business here folks. Playing games with the presidency is not cute.

This not a good thing. I don't condone it.

But do we really believe that the politician face McCain, Obama and Biden put on in front of the cameras is who they really are?

I'm not gonna throw her under the bus just yet just because she hasn't learned how to be a good fake politician.

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The Vogue cover is a really bad photo shop that's been floating around the internet for a while. The photo was created by some blogger and is nothing new, however very bogus. So it is true she was in Vogue but the photo above is a fake. You can view the actual Vogue photos HERE.

OMG, thank you for clearing that up. I was really having trouble getting past the fake Vogue cover. I'm so glad it's not real.

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Palin said herself that she doesn't even know what a VP does. This just last month.

You'll learn when you start working that you most often don't know what a position does until you do it. But not knowing what it does is not the same thing as not being able to do it.

Also, Obama's new ad is out:

He wants to "keep spending $10 billion dollars in Iraq." Nice spin. I hope they're consituents aren't as stupid as they advertise to them.

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Exactly. How can I be empathetic if I'm not able to be inpregnated and have a child? I cannot put myself in her situation.

I can have sympathy though, and I do.

However, I'd have more sympathy towards a child who had his or her choice to live taken away from them. What about respect and sympathy for them?

Just because their mother was inpregnated by her father does not mean they don't have the right to live.

What about the other child in this question? the 11-year-old child? Are you willing to see her life completely wrecked to bring another child into the same messed up family situation?

this is my problem with typical pro-life advocates (and I am an atypical pro-lifer, since I am also pro-choice). It's all about respecting human life, until that life is born. Then nobody seems to care what happens to him or her. That's not respect.

And I so cannot believe that you don't see a problem with this scenario. It's nice that you feel good about it, but I think it is a monstrous & sick view to hold.

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What about the other child in this question? the 11-year-old child? Are you willing to see her life completely wrecked to bring another child into the same messed up family situation?

this is my problem with typical pro-life advocates (and I am an atypical pro-lifer, since I am also pro-choice). It's all about respecting human life, until that life is born. Then nobody seems to care what happens to him or her. That's not respect.

And I so cannot believe that you don't see a problem with this scenario. It's nice that you feel good about it, but I think it is a monstrous & sick view to hold.

The problem is that you're assuming that life is basically over and there is no hope for the 11 year old girl. We know she has an uphill battle, that's all. Many people have uphill battles.

Life itself is more important than the quality of life. I guess we don't agree on that. That's a shame.

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Obama says I'm my brother's keeper. Perhaps I am (you'd know it for fact unless you were a close friend or relative, especially from over the last couple months). But that is not Obama's or anybody else's decision to make than mine. He's talking about government-enforced redistribution of wealth from those who have earned it to those who have not, whether the individual taxpayers would want to support it or not.

I advocate charity. I believe that the individual is responsible for determining how charitiable resources ought to be put to use; their decision should reflect their own personal system of ethics. That Obama believes that his ethics are in any way superior to anybody else's and that he is willing to take property from one man to give to another is tantamount to robbery. It is unethical. It is disrespectful. It is worse than racism, sexism, or anything we have conquered in the past; it is classist. Whereas I desire that respect be granted to all human beings equally, Obama wants to punish the most productive in our society in order to reward the less productive...but ethics aside, this mentality also removes the incentive to be productive, and in so doing causes economic growth to stagnate. Reapportionment is good for some and bad for some, but stagnation is good for no one. Growth is good for all.

Yeah, yeah, you want everyone to take care of themselves. You also are willing to endure endless war if it means you can spend money on things that bring you happiness. You're missing the part of your brain that makes you identify with other humans, even if you don't know them.

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Did a percentage kill yore pa?

I don't get it.

We were talking about taxes.

Funny local print news round-up on Palin. These are the people who know her best!

Palin as VP raises Alaskan eyebrows

Dermot Cole, a longtime columnist for Alaska's second largest newspaper, the Fairbanks Daily News-Miner, called McCain's choice of Palin "reckless" and questioned her credentials.

"Sarah Palin's chief qualification for being elected governor was that she was not Frank Murkowski," Cole said of her enormously unpopular predecessor, who lost favor with Alaskans in part because of unpopular budget cuts. "She was not elected because she was a conservative. She was not elected because of her grasp of issues or because of her track record as the mayor of Wasilla."

Choice stuns Alaskan politicians

State Senate President Lyda Green said she thought it was a joke when someone called her at 6 a.m. to give her the news.

"She's not prepared to be governor. How can she be prepared to be vice president or president?" said Green, a Republican from Palin's hometown of Wasilla. "Look at what she's done to this state. What would she do to the nation?"

Hmmm...I'm not sure how much weight these quotes hold. Her approval rating was above 80%.

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Life itself is more important than the quality of life. I guess we don't agree on that. That's a shame.

I strongly disagree with that statement. There is indeed a point at which life is not worth living. Terri Schiavo is a good example of this. Republicans in Congress actually fought against her husband's wishes by staging a political subpoena to keep Terri alive, even though she'd been in a persistent vegetative state for over 15 years. There is a point when you have to let go. And government needs to stay out of personal and family matters like this where family and doctors should be making the decisions.

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Hmmm...I'm not sure how much weight these quotes hold. Her approval rating was above 80%.

Good point. Wouldn't want to take the words of Alaska's residents and politicians when we have the word of a Woodlands resident who didn't know who she was 48 hours ago.

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Good point. Wouldn't want to take the words of Alaska's residents and politicians when we have the word of a Woodlands resident who didn't know who she was 48 hours ago.

I didn't say to take my word. I was talking about the 80% that do live in Alaska and feel the affects of her decisions.

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Palin said herself that she doesn't even know what a VP does. This just last month.

Trae I hate to burst your bubble, But neither John McCain or Barrack Obama know how to be President either, nor does Joe Biden know how to be VP. Their isn't a Presi-Tech or VP-Tech vocational school out there to prep them for what they are getting into. They make such a big thing out of that, Dan Quayle managed 4 years as VP being a total idiot. Jimmy Carter was a great man and still is, but was a mediocre President at best, but did all he could do. He was much better as a statesman afterwards, and openly admits that. There is nothing in the world that can prepare you for the big chair in the oval office except getting in there and doing it. It's like driving a car, simulators can get you an idea, but until you get in there and do it, you never get it really. I have run a large corporation, and was VP of drilling of one of the largest oil companies in the world at the time of my retirement, I am no more ready to set in that oval office or the one next door, than a man on the moon. There is no correlation for that position. They can talk that talk, but until they do it, no one knows if they can really walk that walk.

Before you start tar and feathering this girl, lets see how she does in the debate again Joe Biden, let's see if she can stand up to a 36 year veteran of Washington politics. Then pass judgement on her if you must, I am think some people might be very surprised of the outcome.

Speaking of Biden's 36 years in Washington, I thought the theme of the election was "change", Joe's been riding around DC for 36 years and hadn't changed a damn thing yet, so what's his big roll in this. Is it possibly to show Obama how the in's and out's work, that he's not run across in his 3 years in Washington. Or does he need him because he's built up a pile of markers that will come in handy when trying to get things done. It can't be for his fresh new outlook, Joe Biden hasn't had a new thought in a long time. He's been barking the same old rhetoric for years.

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Doesn't matter what you're talking about, you can't escape percentages. If everyone paid the same amount, that would still be some percentage of their income.

Ok...lol. Come on meme. You're just being difficult. I was talking within the context of taxes. That's it.

I strongly disagree with that statement. There is indeed a point at which life is not worth living. Terri Schiavo is a good example of this. Republicans in Congress actually fought against her husband's wishes by staging a political subpoena to keep Terri alive, even though she'd been in a persistent vegetative state for over 15 years. There is a point when you have to let go. And government needs to stay out of personal and family matters like this where family and doctors should be making the decisions.

I didn't follow the Schiavo so no comment on that.

But if the 11 year old is going to be poor, so what? Should we kill all babies who won't have a chance at middle or upper class America? And we haven't even brought up the option of adoption.

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But if the 11 year old is going to be poor, so what? Should we kill all babies who won't have a chance at middle or upper class America? And we haven't even brought up the option of adoption.

I think you have wildly missed the point. If this hypothetical 11-year-old is forced to carry a baby to term, deliver it, and grow up with the child that is a constant reminder of the sexual abuse she suffered at the hands of the person meant to protect her, her quality of life would be affected by far more than poverty. Do you not understand what it would do a child to be forced to bear a child???? It is child abuse. And I'm not willing to accept government-inflicted child abuse to save the life of a fetus. There's no "good" outcome in this situation, but ethics demand that we take care of the children who are born before those unborn.

And I am done talking about this. We're not going to agree and you're only making me angry.

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I will pray that it stays that way for the good of the world.

I don't think you should make judgement calls on things you have ZERO experience in.

Ok. Since I don't have kids, maybe I truly don't understand. Can you tell me how having them would change my view?

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Ok. Since I don't have kids, maybe I truly don't understand. Can you tell me how having them would change my view?

TJ probably has his own views on this, but I'll tell you;

Having a kid is that you grow up, take responsibility, and realize the world isn't centered around you because you are now involved with someone who is going to rely on you (in some form) for the next 20-25 years....if you're lucky.

As far as how that may change your geopolitical view, the smart ones will realize that, like relationships, politics is generally a give and take and there are no absolutes.

I don't know about you, but *I* never met a woman who reacted well when given rigid boundries or ultimatums. But that's just me.

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El Presidente (no, not of the PTA)?

Sorry guys... this stuff is just too much.

I am watching her speak right now... my lord... she definitely seems like she would be a great PTA president. She is in WAY over her head.

eh, recycled speech just like Obama and Biden had yesterday.

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