2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Obama (D-IL) vs. McCain (R-AZ)

[webdude]

Or the ones living, but without arms, legs or have a host of other handicaps and ailments, that includes civilians and soldiers.

Looking at McCain's speeches and ads on Iran, Afghanistan, Russia, and Iraq, it seems that his foreign policies will be more more confrontational than Bush's. I think US has enough of that. We have to put the defense back in national defense, and put our money for domestic stuff like borders, and put soldiers in harms' way when there are real threats, no more slippery slope preemptive reasons or made up reasons, no more policing the world.

[lockmat]

And, if McCain thinks this woman will attract female voters because she is "successful" rather than look at her policy positions that are antagonistic to women...well, it wouldn't be the first time McCain didn't get it, would it?

I think it's pretty naive to think that he elected her to steal Hilary votes. The only thing they have in common is their gender and their political differences are worlds apart.

And I think the anti-life choice of democrats is antogonistic to life and unborn babies who are under the mercy of their mother.

[wernicke]

I think it's pretty naive to think that he elected her to steal Hilary votes.

And I think the anti-life choice of democrats is antogonistic to life and unborn babies who are under the mercy of their mother.

It is quite obvious the only reason Palin is on the ticket is because she has two X chromosomes. Which is why her opening statements praised Hillary and Geraldine... Do you honestly believe she was chosen based on her credentials?

And it doesn't matter what one person thinks, what percentage of Americans, especially women, share your's and Mrs. Palin's views on women's issues? Hint: a minority.

Former mayor of backwoods town of 8500 just 20 months ago = Amateur-hour.

[webdude]

I think its even more naive to think he didn't elect her to 'steal' Hilary votes. The republican party would have never put a minority as VP (whether woman, younger person, non-white etc, different religion, bi-sexual, etc) if not for the fact that Democrats had produced two promising candidates not of the same white old dude with christian background variety.

[lockmat]

Do you honestly believe she was chosen based on her credentials?

Nope. Principles. And I won't deny that her being a woman had something to do with it, but I don't think McCain(or anyone) is foolish enough to choose her solely on that fact. Even if he did, I guess the republicans and dems are even with choosing someone solely based on their color or gender.

She also has a short executive resume which has pretty heavy fisted decisions.

She has more pluses, things that they agree on that can lead us to believe he chose her based on them seeing eye to eye.

I think its even more naive to think he didn't elect her to 'steal' Hilary votes. The republican party would have never put a minority as VP (whether woman, younger person, non-white etc, different religion, bi-sexual, etc) if not for the fact that Democrats had produced two promising candidates not of the same white old dude with christian background variety.

Their politics are night and day. Why would someone who was set on voting for Hilary vote for her just because she's a woman. How will her being a woman effect their lives? None. Their policies will and that's the main reason most people vote anyway.

[webdude]

Nope. Principles. And I won't deny that her being a woman had something to do with it, but I don't think McCain(or anyone) is foolish enough to choose her solely on that fact. Even if he did, I guess the republicans and dems are even with choosing someone solely based on their color or gender.

She also has a short executive resume which has pretty heavy fisted decisions.

She has more pluses, things that they agree on that can lead us to believe he chose her based on them seeing eye to eye.

Their politics are night and day. Why would someone who was set on voting for Hilary vote for her just because she's a woman. How will her being a woman effect their lives? None. Their policies will and that's the main reason most people vote anyway.

Whether they vote that way or not is moot, we are talking McCain's ppl's intentions, they are hoping that they might.

The worse thing is she wants to teach creationism in schools ... well, that would perfect for you.

[TJones]

Oil has made the entire state of Alaska a welfare state. As Niche says, once the people get used to that free money they don't want it to stop.

And with Obama in the White House this is gonna stop how, again ??? I'm not talking about JUST Alaska either, we are talking welfare in general.

[jayshoota]

How in the heck do you pick a VP without every even meeting them fact to face? I hope he did his homework because the press sure is. They already are reporting she is being investigated for using her position as govener to try to get her sister's ex-husband fired from his state trooper job after he filed for divorce. She sure would fit in with the D.C. crowd....

This is just day 1, what else will they find?

I will give her credit for using her first veto in office to veto a bill that would have allow the state of Alaska to deny benefits to the same-sex spouses of gov't employees on the advice of her atty general that it would be unconstitutional. Now only if that atty general would fill her in that a ban on abortion was found unconstitutional back in the 70s and that teaching creationism in school's is a legal mess waiting to happen.

[lockmat]

The worse thing is she wants to teach creationism in schools ... well, that would perfect for you.

Yeah, I'm actually not all that excited about that anyway as I'm positive the teachers will screw it up. I don't know why people are so scared of it as most think the evidence is so overwhelming clear that they'll think creationism is laughable anyway.

How in the heck do you pick a VP without every even meeting them fact to face? I hope he did his homework because the press sure is. They already are reporting she is being investigated for using her position as govener to try to get her sister's ex-husband fired from his state trooper job after he filed for divorce. She sure would fit in with the D.C. crowd....

This is just day 1, what else will they find?

We will see. I think she's been quoted as basically saying, bring the investigation on. It's just speculation now. At least there's an investigation going on and the truth will come out.

I'd also like to come back down to earth a little bit. While I'm happy about what she's done and who she is, it remains to be seen how much knowledge she really does have in some areas. But I do think there's opportunity for her to learn and grow on the job. And if she's got foundational principles, I think she'll do fine. I'm just glad I don't have to worry too much since she's our VP and not our leading candidate.

[RedScare]

I think it's pretty naive to think that he elected her to steal Hilary votes. The only thing they have in common is their gender and their political differences are worlds apart.

And I think the anti-life choice of democrats is antogonistic to life and unborn babies who are under the mercy of their mother.

So he picked her to impress ultra right wing conservatives? How far do you have to be swirling down the crapper to have to appease the base of your own party...that should already be in your corner? And, how many moderates and independents does he lose with an anti-abortion pro-creationist who knows absolutely nothing about foreign policy? And how is the "anti-corruption candidate going to explain why she SUPPORTED the "bridge to nowhere"?

You may be interested in knowing that nearly 70% of Americans disagree with your views on Roe v. Wade.

BTW, McCain may have secured the creationist vote, but Romney and Pawlenty supporters are reported to be absolutely apopleptic over this choice. The good news is nearly every Wasilla is supporting her.

[TJones]

Yeah, I'm actually not all that excited about that anyway as I'm positive the teachers will screw it up. I don't know why people are so scared of it as most think the evidence is so overwhelming clear that they'll think creationism is laughable anyway.

Perhaps we can pull together here and get you a cabinet post if McCain wins and then you can make a commitee using those scholars of Hebrew and Aramaic that you told me about, the ones that have sharpened your skills on the matter of creationism and then there won't be any "screw ups".

So he picked her to impress ultra right wing conservatives? How far do you have to be swirling down the crapper to have to appease the base of your own party...that should already be in your corner?

I am ROTFLMBFAO !!! ACK !....... I'm hyperventilating.........somebody call 911 !!!

My thoughts exactly.

[webdude]

After reading up on her, it makes it harder not to believe this ticket is a vote Bush all over. If you thought McCain wasn't Jesus loving enough like Bush is, or neocon enough, Palin sure seals that for you. Plain is as ultra social conservative as they come, definitely more so than McCain. New slogan coming out all over for her too, the anti-women female candidate.

[Jeebus]

Are you really saying that military deaths are inconsequential? Way to think like an accountant. Or a republican.

Whether you like it or not, its his line of thinking that wins wars.

As for the journalists, no one would care if 1,300 died in a combat zone. They count about as much as lawyers these days.

[lockmat]

So he picked her to impress ultra right wing conservatives? How far do you have to be swirling down the crapper to have to appease the base of your own party...that should already be in your corner? And, how many moderates and independents does he lose with an anti-abortion pro-creationist who knows absolutely nothing about foreign policy? And how is the "anti-corruption candidate going to explain why she SUPPORTED the "bridge to nowhere"?

You may be interested in knowing that nearly 70% of Americans disagree with your views on Roe v. Wade.

BTW, McCain may have secured the creationist vote, but Romney and Pawlenty supporters are reported to be absolutely apopleptic over this choice. The good news is nearly every Wasilla is supporting her.

One, I was only responding to abortion. I'm not saying it's a make or break issue.

Two, I'm not saying he did it for the ultra conservatives. I think they have things in common and it just so happens that she's very socially conservative. And ultra conservatives hardly claim him as "their own" anyway.

Bush was anti-abortion and everything else she is and that didn't stop swing voters in voting for him. I think the war might be a bigger factor than we think even though it's not in the headlines every day.

Perhaps we can pull together here and get you a cabinet post if McCain wins and then you can make a commitee using those scholars of Hebrew and Aramaic that you told me about, the ones that have sharpened your skills on the matter of creationism and then there won't be any "screw ups".

Yeah, in a perfect world.

[Jeebus]

EDIT

[lockmat]

After reading up on her, it makes it harder not to believe this ticket is a vote Bush all over. If you thought McCain wasn't Jesus loving enough like Bush is, or neocon enough, Palin sure seals that for you. Plain is as ultra social conservative as they come, definitely more so than McCain. New slogan coming out all over for her too, the anti-women female candidate.

Maybe so. For conservatives, that's a good thing. Most people are really upset about Bush and the war anyway. We've still got a lot to learn about her. When will she start speaking and debating anyway?

edit: for friday night losers like myself and other posters, PBS has a really good show going on right now politically related.

Right now they're talking about race. One man pointed out that if Obama was elected president then it would send the message to blacks that, "you're Americans." This is your country. You have stock in it. You should be proud of it b/c, there's your guy. And it's hard to attack "the man" when you are the man.

[TJones]

Whether you like it or not, its his line of thinking that wins wars.

As for the journalists, no one would care if 1,300 died in a combat zone. They count about as much as lawyers these days.

There's an idea Jeebus, new law says in order to be Popparazzi in Hollywood, you have to do 3 tours in Iraq or Afghanistan first.

lockmat, I am just messin' with ya BTW.

Maybe so. For conservatives, that's a good thing. Most people are really upset about Bush and the war anyway. We've still got a lot to learn about her. When will she start speaking and debating anyway?

To quote you, "in a perfect world", NEVER !!!

[PuroAztlan]

It is an intuitive calculus, so yes, the factors have been weighed.

There have been 4,150 U.S. military KIAs over a span of nearly five and a half years. The U.S. population is 305,006,273. So in a given year of the Iraq War, approximately 0.0002% of the U.S. population has perished in it. And that's not even subtracting the number of U.S. troops that die as a result of accidents or natural causes. In the context of most of the other major wars that the U.S. has fought, this basically inconsequential.

Nice edit.

[TheNiche]

You'd think an amatuer economist would at least comment on the war's cost. Maybe a bunch of soldiers are inconsequential, but surely the $700 Billion in past costs and $1.5 Trillion in future costs bothers you a bit.

(response to Niche, not 'cuda)

We'll manage.

[Trae]

[TheNiche]

My family is a multi-generational military family

KinkaidAlum: See, I told you so.

[TheNiche]

Or the ones living, but without arms, legs or have a host of other handicaps and ailments, that includes civilians and soldiers.

Looking at McCain's speeches and ads on Iran, Afghanistan, Russia, and Iraq, it seems that his foreign policies will be more more confrontational than Bush's. I think US has enough of that. We have to put the defense back in national defense, and put our money for domestic stuff like borders, and put soldiers in harms' way when there are real threats, no more slippery slope preemptive reasons or made up reasons, no more policing the world.

I agree. It sucks. I'm not defending the war, just making a comparative statement. In neocon wars v. socialism, I'll take neocon wars...hands down. But that doesn't mean that I expect that Barack wouldn't deploy troops frequently, either. Neither party can really lay claim to having not been warlike.

[BryanS]

She also has a short executive resume which has pretty heavy fisted decisions.

Yep. Pretty idiotic heavy-fisted decisions. From dailykos:

Sarah Palin left the finances of her town Wasilla in tatters when she moved on in 2002 (h/t xgz). She wanted a legacy as mayor, it seems, and pushed hard for the town to build a hyper-expensive sports complex. But Palin screwed the process up badly. Instead of buying the land for the complex when it was offered, her administration allowed a developer named Gary Lundgren to snap it up. Then Wasilla tried to seize the land from Lundgren through eminent domain. In the end, what with court costs Wasilla paid at least $ 1.7 million for land it could have bought for less than one tenth that sum - if the purchase had been handled properly. For this incompetence, Wasilla is still paying a steep price: higher taxes and cutbacks in services. In other words Palin is about as efficient as Michael Brown, onetime head of FEMA.

...as has been said by others... this woman is an amateur. And the more I "get to know her" ... she seems more like the anti-Christ, to me.

[TheNiche]

Their politics are night and day. Why would someone who was set on voting for Hilary vote for her just because she's a woman. How will her being a woman effect their lives? None. Their policies will and that's the main reason most people vote anyway.

Most voters do not have a clear understanding of policy, much less the implications thereof. They go on emotional instincts and the quantity/quality of media coverage. If you'd like to understand voters better, I suggest you read the Chron forums and get drunk before watching prime time cable news.

[BryanS]

I agree. It sucks. I'm not defending the war, just making a comparative statement. In neocon wars v. socialism, I'll take neocon wars...hands down. But that doesn't mean that I expect that Barack wouldn't deploy troops frequently, either. Neither party can really lay claim to having not been warlike.

We need to bring back the draft. You might have a different opinion then, especially if you had to go over there.

[TheNiche]

Nice edit.

Remind me, what did I change (in one minute)?

We need to bring back the draft. You might have a different opinion then, especially if you had to go over there.

No, that's crazy! To the extent that we need more warm bodies, increase pay. Compensate people for the risks they're taking. And if a war proves to be more expensive than its worth, don't start one.

I still say that you don't understand how this line of argument originated and that you need to go back and read through my prior posts. I do not advocate needless wars. They're only better than an Obama alternative.

[lockmat]

Yep. Pretty idiotic heavy-fisted decisions. From dailykos:

Sarah Palin left the finances of her town Wasilla in tatters when she moved on in 2002 (h/t xgz). She wanted a legacy as mayor, it seems, and pushed hard for the town to build a hyper-expensive sports complex. But Palin screwed the process up badly. Instead of buying the land for the complex when it was offered, her administration allowed a developer named Gary Lundgren to snap it up. Then Wasilla tried to seize the land from Lundgren through eminent domain. In the end, what with court costs Wasilla paid at least $ 1.7 million for land it could have bought for less than one tenth that sum - if the purchase had been handled properly. For this incompetence, Wasilla is still paying a steep price: higher taxes and cutbacks in services. In other words Palin is about as efficient as Michael Brown, onetime head of FEMA.

...as has been said by others... this woman is an amateur. And the more I "get to know her" ... she seems more like the anti-Christ, to me.

I'd start a list for Obama's mistakes, but he's never made an executive decision. Darnit!

[lockmat]

Also, investigative reporters might be interested in the recent scandal involving Palin over her firing of the state safety commissioner. It's been in the Anchorage Daily News for the past few weeks. Apparently, it was over the commissioner's inability to fire Sarah's ex-brother-in-law from the Alaska State Troopers. She may not be part of the good-ole-boy network but she doesn't hesitate to use the power of her office for personal reasons.

She doesn't seem all that worried.

The youtube thing never works for me. Don't know why. Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pak-rH0dCeA&NR=1

[PuroAztlan]

This is McCain's Harriet Miers moment.

[jayshoota]

Fox news is reporting that Palin has foreign policy experience because Alaska is next to Russia...