2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Obama (D-IL) vs. McCain (R-AZ)

[houstonmacbro]

The funniest part, westguy, is that not one of the people that spit and cuss about welfare even know how many people are on welfare, or what has happened to welfare in the last 10 years. Like all Republicans, they are living in the 70s. I've called them on it numerous times, but not once has anyone welfare hater ever responded. They simply trot out the tired line over and over.

Blast the Right

http://www.therationalradical.com/podcast.html

[Mark F. Barnes]

You didn't see Jessica Alba in the stands last night?

They had Sarandon's withered face on camera also last night. Check your TiVo TJ.

[lockmat]

The more I hear about her the more I like. I'm starting to think more and more that this will end up being a home run pick. I know in the HAIF community I'm probably the lone one who thinks this. But I think it's a very smart choice and we'll see more decisions like this made in future elections. I'm actually pretty stoked. She seems awesome.

And Obama doesn't have experience either. At least she's been a final decision maker. Like Obama, she too can surround herself with people with experience. What matters just as much as experience though IMO are principles.

[BryanS]

Well, I thought Obama would give McCain a real race for the White House. I wasn't aware that McCain was gonna just GIVE IT AWAY to the Dems. WTH ??? Alaskan Gov. Palin is the GOP's pick ? Good Night Irene !!! OBAMA '08 it is I guess.

You bet your sweet money TJ, it's over. A vice president is only a heartbeat away from the presidency. To put someone like Palin in the #2 slot... well... given McCain's age, we could end up with a person dangerously inexperienced at the helm. Plus, McCain said he knows nothing about economics. Don't think this pick helps him... She kinda reminds me of a female Dan Qualye.

Kay Bailey Hutchinson would have been a WAY better pick. I wonder if they offered it and she declined, eyeing the Texas governor's office?

Nothing between the ears.

[TJones]

You didn't see Jessica Alba in the stands last night?

As long as they are in the stands and not up on stage for him, I have no problem with that AT ALL !

[memebag]

So you're saying that changes to tax policy would not be impactful? Or do you just presume to think that I'll only work harder for the same rate of return?

I'm not saying anything about money. I thought you were talking about making something of yourself, not accumulating wealth. If you want to crusade for the glory of the free market, how can you do that with McCain in office? He'll abolish all regulations and privatize our roads. The Adam Smith Martyrs Brigade will have a hard time getting headlines under that sort of administration. You'd have a much easier time making something of yourself under Vladimir Ilyich Obama's iron fist.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Here's a thought to ponder.

If (God forbid) something happened to either McCain or Obama in their first term in office who would you rather see in office?

Palin or Biden?

Well, that's easy. Biden. He sounds just as ready to lead as Obama, has the strong foreign policy standings that a Vice-President would need in case something happened, and his agenda on issues was known prior to his announcement.

Palin, we just don't know her yet. For her to win America's trust, she'd have to prove that her experience can help McCain as much as Biden can help Obama. And she'll have to give America a crash course on what she would do that would make her a better President than Obama or Biden. Right now, the only people that would vote Palin over the Dems are conservatives looking for someone more conservative than the other, or women that are looking to vote for whoever is a female candidate. Issue-wise, there's a ??? for now.

Palin could change that though after the debates. Should she beat Biden there and also have a better agenda than Biden in the RNC, then she could be a person we'd rather see in office. But for now (like today, prior to the RNC), Biden has the advantage.

[houstonmacbro]

Well, that's easy. Biden. He sounds just as ready to lead as Obama, has the strong foreign policy standings that a Vice-President would need in case something happened, and his agenda on issues was known prior to his announcement.

Palin, we just don't know her yet. For her to win America's trust, she'd have to prove that her experience can help McCain as much as Biden can help Obama. And she'll have to give America a crash course on what she would do that would make her a better President than Obama or Biden. Right now, the only people that would vote Palin over the Dems are conservatives looking for someone more conservative than the other, or women that are looking to vote for whoever is a female candidate. Issue-wise, there's a ??? for now.

Palin could change that though after the debates. Should she beat Biden there and also have a better agenda than Biden in the RNC, then she could be a person we'd rather see in office. But for now (like today, prior to the RNC), Biden has the advantage.

Amen.

[wernicke]

Umm... 20 months ago Palin was a part-time mayor of a city of 8,000. Zero experience on any national issues.

Is she ready to stare into Putin's eyes?

For the true Religious conservatives out there, can anyone explain how to reconcile the stated emphasis on family/women in the home/etc. with the expectation that the mother of five, including a disabled infant born in April, be able to be chief executive of the United States government?

[RedScare]

The more I hear about her the more I like. I'm starting to think more and more that this will end up being a home run pick. I know in the HAIF community I'm probably the lone one who thinks this. But I think it's a very smart choice and we'll see more decisions like this made in future elections. I'm actually pretty stoked. She seems awesome.

Other than pretty decent hitability (which I think is the reason that dirty old man picked her), name something.

[lockmat]

lol...is McCain dead already???

Was there this much fright when Reagan was elected President?

For the true Religious conservatives out there, can anyone explain how to reconcile the stated emphasis on family/women in the home/etc. with the expectation that the mother of five, including a disabled infant born in April, be able to be chief executive of the United States government?

Being a first lady is a full time job too. I've never heard an outcry over that. How old is her youngest anyway? Anyone know?

Other than pretty decent hitability (which I think is the reason that dirty old man picked her), name something.

The same stuff everyone republican/conservative is touting, including the quotes I posted earlier and crunch minimized. Sure she doesn't have a looong list, but it's more executive action than Obama has.

Other than pretty decent hitability (which I think is the reason that dirty old man picked her

lol...she's cute.

edit: I can't wait to find out what kind of "dirt" they're gonna find out on her.

[houstonmacbro]

lol...is McCain dead already???

Was there this much fright when Reagan was elected President?

Being a first lady is a full time job too. I've never heard an outcry over that. How old is her youngest anyway? Anyone know?

I could be wrong, but something just tells me McCain is not healthy. Are we ready to turn over our nation to this person if something were to seriously happen.

Same for Biden. If something were to happen to Obama (and we know the history of this country and African American leaders, so it is not out of the question or far-fetched) would want a Biden presidency?

Food for thought in both cases.

lol...she's cute.

Same thing a friend of mine says. Whatever.

[infinite_jim]

[RedScare]

The same stuff everyone republican/conservative is touting, including the quotes I posted earlier and crunch minimized. Sure she doesn't have a looong list, but it's more executive action than Obama has.

Just as I thought...nothing.

But I'd still hit it...I just wouldn't vote for it.

[TheNiche]

I know you are not stupid, Niche. So, your intentional mischaracterization of socialism and capitalism can only be viewed as another attempt to mislead by hyperbole. Capitalism is an economic system. Socialism is a political system. They are not mutually exclusive, as evidenced by their use in Canada, Great Britain, Germany, France, and numerous other capitalist and socialist countries. Socialism is not a prescribed set of policies, either. The US already has socialist programs in place for the elderly and the poor. And, there is little momemtum to get rid of them, as evidenced by Bush's complete failure to even get his plan to eliminate Social Security to a debate.

Apparently I am stupid, according to you. And that you believe that I'm intentionlly misleading people makes you stupid, according to me.

I know what you're saying, and perhaps I haven't been explaining myself well enough. But here's what I'm getting at:

Socialist policies, whether taken individually or as an all-encompassing portfolio of policies, distort markets. Taken to an extreme, or even just poorly implemented, they cause economic stagnation (contrast western Europe with eastern Europe for a robust example). Once implemented for even a short while, consumers change their behavior based upon the expectation that those policies will be around forever. For better or worse, the socialist policy becomes entrenched. I do not dispute matters of popularity.

[Mark F. Barnes]

You have to hand it to McCain's camp, they stopped the buzz on the Obama Express' show from last night, dead in it's track. Every channel is talking about nothing but this new choice for VP. Great strategy on their part.

[TheNiche]

The funniest part, westguy, is that not one of the people that spit and cuss about welfare even know how many people are on welfare, or what has happened to welfare in the last 10 years. Like all Republicans, they are living in the 70s. I've called them on it numerous times, but not once has anyone welfare hater ever responded. They simply trot out the tired line over and over.

Welfare has its traditional form. And then it has the form that is embedded in the tax code. Progressive income tax brackets are welfare.

[houstonmacbro]

You have to hand it to McCain's camp, they stopped the buzz on the Obama Express' show from last night, dead in it's track. Every channel is talking about nothing but this new choice for VP. Great strategy on their part.

For better or worse, you're right.

[musicman]

I could be wrong, but something just tells me McCain is not healthy. Are we ready to turn over our nation to this person if something were to seriously happen.

Same for Biden. If something were to happen to Obama (and we know the history of this country and African American leaders, so it is not out of the question or far-fetched) would want a Biden presidency?

some anxiety meds may help

[HoustonMidtown]

lol...is McCain dead already???

Was there this much fright when Reagan was elected President?

Probably - we just didn't have the internet so everybody could get all worked up about it

[ricco67]

Well, I saw her a couple of months ago on the Glenn Beck program on CNN (and on his radio program) and I was impressed with her then, I think she would be a good addition to his ticket.

For those that are interested in seeing her interview from a couple of months ago, they are repeating the show tonight at 6pm on Headline news.

[lockmat]

Just as I thought...nothing.

Red, come on! Shoot them down, one by one. You're way better than that. Crunch gave you a head start already.

edit:

"Governor Palin shares John McCain's commitment to overturning Roe v. Wade, the agenda of Big Oil and continuing George Bush's failed economic policies. That's not the change we need, it's just more of the same," he said.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5h6n_JR...RlXHm93BAIswUYw

That is getting sooo old already, seriously

[RedScare]

Socialist policies, whether taken individually or as an all-encompassing portfolio of policies, distort markets.

So do unregulated markets. See housing and mortgage crisis.

Taken to an extreme, or even just poorly implemented, they cause economic stagnation (contrast western Europe with eastern Europe for a robust example).

So do unregulated markets. Again, see housing and mortgage crisis.

Once implemented for even a short while, consumers change their behavior based upon the expectation that those policies will be around forever.

So do unregulated markets. See housing and mortgage crisis.

For better or worse, the socialist policy becomes entrenched.

So do unregulated markets. See, well, you know.

I do not dispute matters of popularity.

A democratic government, which exists to to reperesent and implement the will of the people, should, in order to fulfill its duties, work to implement those programs desired by the popular majority that do not otherwise violate the constitution and laws of the country. Should those desires include social programs, those programs should be enacted and implemented, despite the opposition of the minority. The fact that the minority claims superior knowledge of the ill effects of such programs is of no consequence, unless the minority shall influence enough people to become the majority.

In this instance, you are most decidedly the minority.

[TheNiche]

I'm not saying anything about money. I thought you were talking about making something of yourself, not accumulating wealth.

What am I to be made of!?

Am I supposed to work to help people? Is that my worth, is what I can do for you? For a child? For a poor man? For a crippled retard? ____ that! Is my worth defined by praise? By fitting in? By popularity? By fame? By fear? By power? By strength? By influence? By an obituary?

Moreover, why would you think that the accumulation of wealth would suit me? It does not. All the wealth in the world is worthless if it cannot be spent. I desire to earn money that I might spend it for my own benefit.

If you want to crusade for the glory of the free market, how can you do that with McCain in office? He'll abolish all regulations and privatize our roads. The Adam Smith Martyrs Brigade will have a hard time getting headlines under that sort of administration. You'd have a much easier time making something of yourself under Vladimir Ilyich Obama's iron fist.

McCain will probably not be a very good president. Something I've noticed is that those who tend to be motivated to be president tend not to be very good at it. So I have very low expectations.

A vote for McCain, in my eyes, is only a vote against Obama. That is enough.

[wernicke]

A democratic government, which exists to to reperesent and implement the will of the people, should, in order to fulfill its duties, work to implement those programs desired by the popular majority that do not otherwise violate the constitution and laws of the country. Should those desires include social programs, those programs should be enacted and implemented, despite the opposition of the minority. The fact that the minority claims superior knowledge of the ill effects of such programs is of no consequence, unless the minority shall influence enough people to become the majority.

In this instance, you are most decidedly the minority.

Well said.

[TJones]

Red, come on! Shoot them down, one by one. You're way better than that. Crunch gave you a head start already.

edit:

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5h6n_JR...RlXHm93BAIswUYw

That is getting sooo old already, seriously

Nobody answered your question of how old her youngest child is. It had already been answered for you, but just to reitterate, 4months old. NOT 4 yrs, 4 months, and is a special needs child lockmat.

I already know WHY you like her so much lockmat. She is a Catholic, hellbent to overturn the arbortion issue and birth control, so sayeth the VP ! She obviously can't obstain from sex herself and since she won't get her husband a vasectomy or get her tubes tied, I am wondering if she can keep her legs closed long enough to do some overseas traveling ,if elected, to meet foreign dignitaries without being knocked up.

[PuroAztlan]

Palin

[houstonmacbro]

What do you think of this? As a person who rejects 'organized religion' (but not God), I find creationism unsound and plainly man's early attempts to explain the world around them. I believe everyone's right to believe, but do we want this taught in our schools?

****

McCain's VP Wants Creationism Taught in School

By Brandon Keim August 29, 2008 | 12:57:43 PMCategories: 2008 Presidential Election, Evolution, Religion

Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin wants creationism taught in science classes.

In a 2006 gubernatorial debate, the soon-to-be governor of Alaska trotted out the usual creationist education canard: "Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of education. Healthy debate is so important, and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both."

http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/08...ns-vp-want.html

[TheNiche]

So do unregulated markets. See housing and mortgage crisis.

Its called a business cycle. This is a weak one. It is self-correcting process. ...but if you think that this one occured independently of a cocktail of government policies, you're either crazy, ignorant, or are intentionally misleading people. I dislike central banks, too, btw.

A democratic government, which exists to to reperesent and implement the will of the people, should, in order to fulfill its duties, work to implement those programs desired by the popular majority that do not otherwise violate the constitution and laws of the country. Should those desires include social programs, those programs should be enacted and implemented, despite the opposition of the minority. The fact that the minority claims superior knowledge of the ill effects of such programs is of no consequence, unless the minority shall influence enough people to become the majority.

It sounds like you're arguing that I shouldn't hold the policy opinion that I do or perhaps that my policy opinion is wrong, with your premise being that it is an unpopular one.

In this instance, you are most decidedly the minority.

I am in the minority. Does it just make you feel good, personally, to say that, or is there some other benefit (unbeknownst to myself) in repeating back to me what I never disputed and in fact fully acknowledged?

[lockmat]

I already know WHY you like her so much lockmat. She is a Catholic, hellbent to overturn the arbortion issue and birth control, so sayeth the VP ! She obviously can't obstain from sex herself and since she won't get her husband a vasectomy or get her tubes tied, I am wondering if she can keep her legs closed long enough to do some overseas traveling if elected to meet foreign dignitaries without being knocked up.

lol, come now TJ. First of all, I'm not even close to being catholic. I didn't know if she had a religion affiliation, if any. I did read that she's pro-life, but that's not the reason I like her so much.

I like the decisions she has made. Bridge to nowhere. Tax cuts. Stand for ethics, even if it is in her own party. She reminds me of a no nonsense kind of mom. She doesn't seem to care what people think as long as she's doing the right thing.

And the whole sex/kids is pretty weak sauce. We have no problem telling kids and unwedded people that abstinence is old fashioned and ridiculous, but we criticize a married woman for doing it with her husband? Long live lots of sex with your spouse.