First white Valedictorian from Morehouse

[H-Town Man]

Yeah, you are right, I can see how me being offended that people didn't want someone with my color of skin at their institution of higher learning or to date their women makes me a racist. And I can see how my being offended by their open discussion of said disdain for people of another race and their achievments is really just "the pot calling the kettle black"

Seriously though, I know you regulars like to get the last word in, but clinging to a defense of you calling me, someone you have never met and probably read very few of my posts (as most are made in the great NW section), a closet racist is just sad, even for an internet forum.

cnote, shame on you for being upset at racist comments made at a white student. Have white people ever been slaves in this country? Clearly there is nothing wrong with racism toward whites, since their ancestors were not slaves.

In fact, you are a racist for calling out that racist student for his racism. That racist student had ancestors who were slaves... don't you know?... and even to point out when he is being racist is itself a racist act.

[/typical HAIF tripe]

[KinkaidAlum]

A point many on here need to remember;

Morehouse College was not started to exclude whites. It was started because blacks were LEGALLY denied admission to the South's finest colleges (Duke, Rice, Emory, Vandy, Tulane, Sewanee, Rhodes, W +L, Furman, etc...).

It would also be helpful to remember that most of the above mentioned colleges didn't have their first black students until the late 1960s.

Sure, some of the remarks in the article were unfortunate. However, unfortunate remarks from a few students does not = hundreds of years of legal discrimination. Sorry, it just doesn't hold the same weight.

Now, a better way to equate the comments of these few students at Morehouse would be to read the comments from female students at former all women's colleges that went coed after many formerly all-male colleges started to accept female students. Lots of those comments were angry for losing one of the few places women seemed to "own."

[CDeb]

Sure, some of the remarks in the article were unfortunate. However, unfortunate remarks from a few students does not = hundreds of years of legal discrimination. Sorry, it just doesn't hold the same weight.

What poppycock!

None of those students, black or white, have been alive during periods of legal discrimination against blacks. And they certainly haven't been alive for hundreds of years. If that's the standard we're going to use, nearly every ethnicity and religion (including those of us without this protected status that you wish to bestow) can claim immunity in being able to make "unfortunate" remarks.

These students have not personally endured hundreds of years of discrimination at the hands of anyone. They live in the present reality where society's mores dictate that WE (meaning everyone) ought to be judging not by the color of skin but by the content of character. It's unfortunate that those who ought to be most inspired by those words seem to be given a free pass in living up to them. Discrimination is discrimination, and passing discrimination that is acceptable to you off as "unfortunate remarks" gives license to discrimination that would offend your sensibilities.

This country will never get beyond these issues until more people realize that they are a two-way street.

[memebag]

What poppycock!

None of those students, black or white, have been alive during periods of legal discrimination against blacks. And they certainly haven't been alive for hundreds of years. If that's the standard we're going to use, nearly every ethnicity and religion (including those of us without this protected status that you wish to bestow) can claim immunity in being able to make "unfortunate" remarks.

Are you saying that because discrimination is now illegal that the slate has been wiped clean? That our history has lost all impact on the present?

These students have not personally endured hundreds of years of discrimination at the hands of anyone. They live in the present reality where society's mores dictate that WE (meaning everyone) ought to be judging not by the color of skin but by the content of character. It's unfortunate that those who ought to be most inspired by those words seem to be given a free pass in living up to them.

Who ought to be most inspired by those words? Are you selecting that group by ... the color of their skin?

If we don't give them a "free pass", what should our reaction be? Will righteous indignation (from any of us) really help?

[TJones]

A point many on here need to remember;

Morehouse College was not started to exclude whites. It was started because blacks were LEGALLY denied admission to the South's finest colleges (Duke, Rice, Emory, Vandy, Tulane, Sewanee, Rhodes, W +L, Furman, etc...).

It would also be helpful to remember that most of the above mentioned colleges didn't have their first black students until the late 1960s.

Sure, some of the remarks in the article were unfortunate. However, unfortunate remarks from a few students does not = hundreds of years of legal discrimination. Sorry, it just doesn't hold the same weight.

Now, a better way to equate the comments of these few students at Morehouse would be to read the comments from female students at former all women's colleges that went coed after many formerly all-male colleges started to accept female students. Lots of those comments were angry for losing one of the few places women seemed to "own."

Kinkaid, what you have to keep in mind is that the black community are the ones who wanted the slate wiped clean and EVERYONE start off as IMMEDIATE equals or at least equal to the whiteman. Shouldn't this "WANT" hold true even at Morehouse ? I agree that some comments are unfortunate, and even the "positive" comments seem to have a negative undertone to them. Why must the Dean say, "...in everyway but ethnicity." Is that even necessary ? That shows me that you aren't TRULY a Morehouse man unless your skin has a certain amount of melan in it's pigment.

Morehouse is traditionally a "Black" college, and we, as white devils, are supposed to just accept that fact and go along with it and smile and say, "Yep, you can have your ALL black college, you deserve it after what my great great granpappy did to your great great grandpappy !" So we smile and we have the UNCC, but try to have the UWCC, and all hell breaks loose.

[CDeb]

Are you saying that because discrimination is now illegal that the slate has been wiped clean? That our history has lost all impact on the present?

I'm saying that history is no excuse for discrimination. And I'm also saying that those living in the present have no special victim status due to that history.

Who ought to be most inspired by those words? Are you selecting that group by ... the color of their skin?

By .... their reactions to having a white valedictorian at an HBC.

If we don't give them a "free pass", what should our reaction be?

What would the reaction be if a few white students at Texas A&M expressed regret at having a black valedictorian? That the student was an Aggie in all ways except ethnicity? If you honestly believe the answer to those question is, "None at all," then I can't quarrel with you, because my only quarrel is with the double-standard.

[TJones]

What would the reaction be if a few white students at Texas A&M expressed regret at having a black valedictorian? That the student was an Aggie in all ways except ethnicity? If you honestly believe the answer to those question is, "None at all," then I can't quarrel with you, because my only quarrel is with the double-standard.

No CDeb, it has already been proven at Aggieland that if you make a YouTube video, showing racist behavior towards blacks, that you will get booted off campus.

[CDeb]

No CDeb, it has already been proven at Aggieland that if you make a YouTube video, showing racist behavior towards blacks, that you will get booted off campus.

Bingo.

[memebag]

I'm saying that history is no excuse for discrimination. And I'm also saying that those living in the present have no special victim status due to that history.

Do they have "special victim status" due to the current consequences of that history? Or are you really saying that this history has no consequences in the present?

By .... their reactions to having a white valedictorian at an HBC.

I'm confused. You said:

"They live in the present reality where society's mores dictate that WE (meaning everyone) ought to be judging not by the color of skin but by the content of character. It's unfortunate that those who ought to be most inspired by those words seem to be given a free pass in living up to them."

That sounds like you're saying that black people should be most inspired by those words, not that someone having some reaction to a white valedictorian at an HBC should be most inspired by those words. Please clarify.

What would the reaction be if a few white students at Texas A&M expressed regret at having a black valedictorian? That the student was an Aggie in all ways except ethnicity? If you honestly believe the answer to those question is, "None at all," then I can't quarrel with you, because my only quarrel is with the double-standard.

I imagine the reaction would be righteous indignation from some, indifference from others and support from a few. But that doesn't answer my question. What do you think our reaction should be to the comments expressed in the article?

[CDeb]

Do they have "special victim status" due to the current consequences of that history? Or are you really saying that this history has no consequences in the present?

Of course history has consequences in the present. I'm not seeing how that gives someone a pass to be a bigot.

I'm confused. You said:

"They live in the present reality where society's mores dictate that WE (meaning everyone) ought to be judging not by the color of skin but by the content of character. It's unfortunate that those who ought to be most inspired by those words seem to be given a free pass in living up to them."

That sounds like you're saying that black people should be most inspired by those words, not that someone having some reaction to a white valedictorian at an HBC should be most inspired by those words. Please clarify.

Yes, I should clarify as it was sloppy wording on my part. My opinion is that those believing they have a racial grievance should be most inspired by those words, which may include blacks, but doesn't necesarily have to. It is also my opinion that they should inspire us all on some level.

I imagine the reaction would be righteous indignation from some, indifference from others and support from a few. But that doesn't answer my question. What do you think our reaction should be to the comments expressed in the article?

I did answer your question. I think the reaction should be the same as the semi-hypothetical situation which I offered, whatever that reaction would be. Somehow, I don't think that would be the case.

[KinkaidAlum]

Nah, all African-Americans have to put up with at formerly all-white colleges is the notion that ALL of them are there because of affirmative action or athletic scholarships.

It's why white students have had % bake sales on campuses like ATM and SMU. There's even a thread about that here on HAIF. Funny thing is, many of the posters who are showing such outrage on this thread thought the one about anti-affirmative action bake sales was hilarious.

Apparently, double standards might be the only color-blind thing in American society.

[memebag]

Of course history has consequences in the present. I'm not seeing how that gives someone a pass to be a bigot.

I don't think I'm saying anyone has a "pass" to be a bigot.

You really don't see how the history that produced Morehouse could lead to some students not wanting a white valedictorian?

Yes, I should clarify as it was sloppy wording on my part. My opinion is that those believing they have a racial grievance should be most inspired by those words, which may include blacks, but doesn't necesarily have to. It is also my opinion that they should inspire us all on some level.

I'm even more confused now.

I did answer your question. I think the reaction should be the same as the semi-hypothetical situation which I offered, whatever that reaction would be. Somehow, I don't think that would be the case.

So "righteous indignation from some, indifference from others and support from a few" is exactly how our reaction should be? That sounds like a description of the reactions in the article and on this forum. If you don't think our reaction should be different, what's this stuff about a "free pass"?

[TJones]

Nah, all African-Americans have to put up with at formerly all-white colleges is the notion that ALL of them are there because of affirmative action or athletic scholarships.

"Affimative Action" ? There isn't one student currently enrolled at any college since 2004 that could possibly feel the effects of "Affirmative Action" . Unless someone who was an freshman in 2003 told them about it and how lucky he/she was to get in under the wire back then.

[CDeb]

You really don't see how the history that produced Morehouse could lead to some students not wanting a white valedictorian?

I can see how history has led lots of people to do lots of bad things. That doesn't make them acceptable.

I'm even more confused now.

Sorry about that.

So "righteous indignation from some, indifference from others and support from a few" is exactly how our reaction should be? That sounds like a description of the reactions in the article and on this forum. If you don't think our reaction should be different, what's this stuff about a "free pass"?

You and I differ in opinion on what the reaction to my hypothetic would be. I can live with that.

[Pumapayam]

Funny thing is, many of the posters who are showing such outrage on this thread thought the one about anti-affirmative action bake sales was hilarious.

I was just impressed by his muscular physique.

A guy with brawn with brains, congrats to him for being so well rounded.

It sets the standards higher for all types (races and gender).

Lots of articles about this mentioned that it only makes the other students want to study harder and do better in school.

[H-Town Man]

Sure, some of the remarks in the article were unfortunate. However, unfortunate remarks from a few students does not = hundreds of years of legal discrimination. Sorry, it just doesn't hold the same weight.

Who said it did?

[gwilson]

I wasn't. It's possible that some black citizens were, but they probably weren't enslaved in this country. Why do you ask? Did I miss the official erasure of our history of racial injustice?

Racial injustice is not specific to blacks.

Even your statement about a reason being 400 years of enslavement couldn't be more wrong considering whites weren't the only ones enslaving blacks, blacks were enslaved BY blacks, and whites, asians, indians, hispanics were also enslaved at the same time and in greater quantities. The "they were slaves" excuse doesn't hold water, at all. Slavery also ended 150 years ago and no one today has felt the direct affects of slavery, so it is a moot point anyway. I'm part of a group that had a federal extermination order out against them and were driven across the country to escape it. That gives me no rights or excuses today.

[memebag]

Racial injustice is not specific to blacks.

Even your statement about a reason being 400 years of enslavement couldn't be more wrong considering whites weren't the only ones enslaving blacks, blacks were enslaved BY blacks, and whites, asians, indians, hispanics were also enslaved at the same time and in greater quantities. The "they were slaves" excuse doesn't hold water, at all. Slavery also ended 150 years ago and no one today has felt the direct affects of slavery, so it is a moot point anyway. I'm part of a group that had a federal extermination order out against them and were driven across the country to escape it. That gives me no rights or excuses today.

You asked for a reason why white people shouldn't get "pissy" about a racist comment. I'm not saying racial injustice is specific to blacks, or that 400 years of slavery excuses anything or justifies anything. I just think its a lot easier for white people to let racist comments slide than it is for black people. Our history doesn't define us, but it hasn't been magically erased, either.

And that was just one option. If you don't like it, chose the other one.

[west20th]

Racial injustice is not specific to blacks.

I'm part of a group that had a federal extermination order out against them and were driven across the country to escape it. That gives me no rights or excuses today.

What group is that?

[houstonmacbro]

What group is that?

I was kinda wondering the same thing.

[cnote]

I was kinda wondering the same thing.

I am sure it is a Native American group...don't know which tribe it may be specifically...

[westguy76]

What group is that?

Redheads! We've been held down for years!

Let's lose the stereotypes and the hatespeech!

[JLWM8609]

I'm just surprised nobody's reached for the lowest rung and pointed out his pun friendly last name, "Packwood". No wonder he was so popular. With a name like that, try NOT getting a date.

[houstonmacbro]

I'm just surprised nobody's reached for the lowest rung and pointed out his pun friendly last name, "Packwood". No wonder he was so popular. With a name like that, try NOT getting a date.

Oh, your dirty mind.

[gwilson]

You asked for a reason why white people shouldn't get "pissy" about a racist comment. I'm not saying racial injustice is specific to blacks, or that 400 years of slavery excuses anything or justifies anything. I just think its a lot easier for white people to let racist comments slide than it is for black people. Our history doesn't define us, but it hasn't been magically erased, either.

And that was just one option. If you don't like it, chose the other one.

If one allows the past to control their future, it is their mistake, not mine.

[gwilson]

What group is that?

To be fair, it wasn't exactly federal in nature.

From 1838 through 1976 (though it wasn't actually practiced for a better than a hudred years), the State of Missourri had an extermination order out on Mormons. This order was rescinded in 1976 by Gov. Bond with apologies.

Text of the recinsion:

WHEREAS, on October 27, 1838, the Governor of the State of Missouri, Lilburn W. Boggs, signed an order calling for the extermination or expulsion of Mormons from the State of Missouri; and

WHEREAS, Governor Boggs' order clearly contravened the rights to life, liberty, property and religious freedom as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, as well as the Constitution of the State of Missouri; and

WHEREAS, in this bicentennial year as we reflect on our nation's heritage, the exercise of religious freedom is without question one of the basic tenets of our free democratic republic;

Now, THEREFORE, I, CHRISTOPHER S. BOND, Governor of the State of Missouri, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the State of Missouri, do hereby order as follows:

Expressing on behalf of all Missourians our deep regret for the injustice and undue suffering which was caused by the 1838 order, I hereby rescind Executive Order Number 44, dated October 27, 1838, issued by Governor W. Boggs.

In witness I have hereunto set my hand and caused to be affixed the great seal of the State of Missouri, in the city of Jefferson, on this 25 day of June, 1976.

(Signed) Christopher S. Bond, Governor.

Do not think that I am trying to equate anything with slavery of any kind as the oppressions of people cannot be compared. The fact is, these things, be it the slavery of the jews in Egypt, the African slave trade, the extermination of Native Americans, genocide of Christians in SE Asia, etc are all gross injustices, but we cannot allow them to define us...or give us excuses (which is what the 400 years in slavery bit is...an excuse).

I'm just surprised nobody's reached for the lowest rung and pointed out his pun friendly last name, "Packwood". No wonder he was so popular. With a name like that, try NOT getting a date.

Just for you...

heh heh, you said wood.

[TJones]

I'm just surprised nobody's reached for the lowest rung and pointed out his pun friendly last name, "Packwood". No wonder he was so popular. With a name like that, try NOT getting a date.

Remember JLW, this is a whiteguy we are talking about, none of those women at that campus would possibly "believe" THAT !

[houstonmacbro]

Remember JLW, this is a whiteguy we are talking about, none of those women at that campus would possibly "believe" THAT !

Morehouse is all male, but I am sure some of the dudes there swing that way, and might possibly enjoy some of that too.

:-)

[memebag]

If one allows the past to control their future, it is their mistake, not mine.

I'm a white male. I don't know what it feels like to be black in the US, but I imagine I'd be more upset by racial comments if I was.

[houstonmacbro]

I'm a white male. I don't know what it feels like to be black in the US, but I imagine I'd be more upset by racial comments if I was.

I think it depends on how you look at it. I have experienced all kinds of 'attitudes' from all kinds of people. White, black, Hispanic, Asian, straight, gay ... I am not sure if it is all racial or just people with a bad day sometimes.

What I do know is that honestly, life is too short to wonder why, for me to put too much energy into trying to figure it out, or make excuses for why people act the way they do (towards me) at times.

I keep moving ahead, keep reaching for my personal goals, and try to treat people like I want to be treated.

If it's not affecting me personally, my lifestyle, my job, my income, my family or friends, it's like whatever.