Cy-Fair Budget Shortfall

[cnote]

They blame the state tax cuts. I can't believe this hasn't been brought up here yet, I guess everyone was too busy with the Klien Bond. Anyway, makes things seem pretty dire for Cy-Fair. It makes me think that Cy-Fair is getting too big without the industry/business tax basis of an inner city district (Houston and Dallas, the only two bigger entities). This is a big issue for the area, as schools play such an important role in property values and the desirability of a neighborhood. Lord knows I don't want to pay any more property taxes than I already do, but this looks like what it will be coming to.

http://www.click2houston.com/education/15956050/detail.html

[jimcas]

From that article - "The formula assumed we collected taxes on 20 percent homestead exemption, which we did not," Durham said."

Brilliant.

[TJones]

I will blame it on trying to build too many schools and having an influx of people defaulting on their mortgages and having to move out of the area.

[KatieDidIt]

I will blame it on trying to build too many schools and having an influx of people defaulting on their mortgages and having to move out of the area.

The problem I see with the suburban districts is that they have to build more houses, which equals more kids, to get anywhere near the property tax base of the built out districts. ie. Spring Branch and HISD. Land values in town keep increasing and there is nowhere else to build. Also the population in town is aging or people send their kids to private, which equals less kids, so the districts remains wealthy and not over burdened. Suburban areas have very low land values and they keep building and populating.

[jimcas]

I will blame it on trying to build too many schools and having an influx of people defaulting on their mortgages and having to move out of the area.

That's not it, in my opinion. This is sheer incompetence.

This area is growing, not shrinking - hence the need for the new schools.

Mortgage defaults in Cy Fair are relatively insignificant.

This isn't Miami or Orange County or even inner loop Houston. Sure there are some people defaulting - but I think it's a relatively insignificant number.

Overplanning for 20% of tax revenues that aren't going to be there because of a known homestead exemption (that isn't as heavily utilized in other school districts, which is probably why they missed it) - To me, that's just incompetence.

I'm not sure where the surplus/shortfall would be without that mistake - but surely - that's a HUGE contributor to the problem.

[jimcas]

This could help understand the problem if anyone is really interested in this topic...

http://www.cfisd.net/movies/wbm100506/Budg...e%20Hearing.pdf

[mrfootball]

The problem I see with the suburban districts is that they have to build more houses, which equals more kids, to get anywhere near the property tax base of the built out districts. ie. Spring Branch and HISD. Land values in town keep increasing and there is nowhere else to build. Also the population in town is aging or people send their kids to private, which equals less kids, so the districts remains wealthy and not over burdened. Suburban areas have very low land values and they keep building and populating.

HISD, Spring Branch, yada yada.

There goes Katie, always evangelizing and veering off topic. In that vein, I'm always amazed at how districts like HISD have such old, run down crappy schools and facilities. Considering the tax base they draw from, there must be a hell of a lot of inefficiency in those districts. As for Spring Branch ISD, one half is nice with good schools, the other half (past Longpoint) looks like a 3rd world country (with the only student population growth coming from that side of the district).

Back to CFISD

Cy-Fair is a huge district that encompasses a lot of businesses as well - including Willowbrook, large stretches of 290, the Beltway, 249, FM 1960, etc. I would argue that a large fast-growing district like Cy-Fair should have the legislative clout to have avoided this matter. Even if the legislature is run by idiots, if Cy-Fair ISD can't use their size to their benefit, then there's really no benefit for us having a 100,000+ student district. I would support breaking it up into 2 or 3 smaller districts.

[KatieDidIt]

HISD, Spring Branch, yada yada.

There goes Katie, always evangelizing and veering off topic. In that vein, I'm always amazed at how districts like

You have no reason to go out of your way to be rude to me. Seems like an attack from left field. And my comments were on topic

[cnote]

The problem I see with the suburban districts is that they have to build more houses, which equals more kids, to get anywhere near the property tax base of the built out districts. ie. Spring Branch and HISD. Land values in town keep increasing and there is nowhere else to build. Also the population in town is aging or people send their kids to private, which equals less kids, so the districts remains wealthy and not over burdened. Suburban areas have very low land values and they keep building and populating.

Cy-Fair actually has a fairly significant business/industry tax base, and property values in this area are not decreasing, though not increasing at the level of Memorial. I agree with Jimcas that forclosures are also a minimal issue in the area. There are many suburban districts that are just fine financially...some of the ones I grew up around are okay (Humble, Aldine (the airport/greenspoint helps here), Spring)

I think I agree that the sheer size of the district should create benefits, if not, there is no reason for it to be so large. I think there are two key issues here...intense growth in the area, and poor planning/reaction to said growth.

They did what they had to and built new school after new school in response to the growth to save the educational experience, but it sounds like they failed to adapt their budget for sustainability of so many new schools. I have heard that Cy-Fair spends as much as three times what some other districts spend on their Bands (close to some colleges), and while I agree band is important, is three times as much really a good choice?

[TJones]

Like Cy-Fair really NEEDED that sports complex on Barker-Cypress ? There's your $23 million and more right there.

[cnote]

Like Cy-Fair really NEEDED that sports complex on Barker-Cypress ? There's your $23 million and more right there.

You knew eventually this would come up....

[inthehotsun]

You knew eventually this would come up....

Many people do not realize that funds for facilities versus funds for maintenance and operations (basically, the $$ that funds teachers' salaries, technology, nurses, counselors, etc.) are two separate pots of money. Legally, a school district CANNOT use facility money (mostly thru bonds that are passed by voters; some thru the state facility funds) for maintenance and operations.

The Berry Center was APPROVED by the voters. Even if they did not use the bond funds to build the Berry Center, they still could not redirect those funds to cover their expenses to run the schools.

(Disclaimer: I do not work for Cy-Fair, btw.)

In terms of HISD having run down schools even though the taxbase is huge (and it is)...people do not realize that any "additional" monies generated by propery tax growth does NOT go to HISD. In fact, it goes to the state's general revenue funds. Ask your local legislator what they are doing with that money.

Everytime your property taxes go up, the state gets that increase not HISD (or any other local school district). The city and county, however, do keep that increase generated by property wealth.

The current school finance system was based on what each school district was able to raise on tax collections per student in 2005-2006 or 2006-2007 (whichever was better). If a district had given their property owners the optional homestead exemption or for whatever reason had a poor rate of property tax collections (I believe one year, Enron protested their taxes so HISD had a particularly low level of tax collections that year but the following year had a "settle up"...but if that had been the year that current school finance system was based on, HISD would be in a bad situation, too)...then the school district is screwed.

Texas is about 47 on the list when you rank the states on how much the state government is funding their schools. However, Texas is about in the middle in terms of achievement. And when you look at how Texas is doing on the NAEP scores (the only national assessment test around) when you disagregate certain populations (e.g., economically disadvantaged, Hispanics, etc.), we do better than most states with our most at-risk populations.

So, in terms of cost/benefit....Texans for the little $$ they invest in education (compared to the rest of the country) actually get a pretty good deal. Most school districts (no way in heck I'd ever defend districts like North Forest) are doing a pretty good job at stretching a dollar...

Get the facts.

[VicMan]

In that vein, I'm always amazed at how districts like HISD have such old, run down crappy schools and facilities. Considering the tax base they draw from, there must be a hell of a lot of inefficiency in those districts.

Don't forget about Robin Hood... - I'm not sure exactly how much Robin Hood contributes to things. I know that HISD has *some* new campuses.

[jimcas]

Most school districts (no way in heck I'd ever defend districts like North Forest) are doing a pretty good job at stretching a dollar...

Get the facts.

HISD doesn't do a good job at anything. That's a fact.

[inthehotsun]

Most school districts (no way in heck I'd ever defend districts like North Forest) are doing a pretty good job at stretching a dollar...

Get the facts.

HISD doesn't do a good job at anything. That's a fact.

That's an opinion, actually.

Being able to differentiate between a fact and an opinion is a skill schools teach in...oh, about the first grade.

[VicMan]

HISD doesn't do a good job at anything. That's a fact.

That's hyperbole. If the district was truly incompetent in every manner it would be a larger version of North Forest.

Rather, HISD has some advantages and some disadvantages, but how well you do depends on what neighborhood the parent lives in, how savvy he or she is in choosing schools, and the student's willingness to learn. Check out schools in wealthier neighborhoods and they tend to have high test scores. Schools in poor areas tend to have lower scores.

[inthehotsun]

VicMan is mostly correct. HISD has some great schools in poorer communities, but they are generally the exception. HISD also has some of the best schools in the country. They have at both ends of the spectrum and a whole lot in the middle.

VicMan is correct in saying that a lot does have to do with parents, parent involvement, wealth, etc. However, this is not just a factor in impacting student scores in HISD; this is a factor for ALL school districts. HISD just happens to have a large majority (almost 80%) of its students considered economically disadvantaged.

My point is that it's easy to pick on public schools. However, like most things in life, it's always more complicated than what people read or hear about in the media.

[TJones]

.........and to what school districts do the funds go, that are generated by places like The Berry Center, or The Merrill Center ?

[cnote]

Don't forget about Robin Hood... - I'm not sure exactly how much Robin Hood contributes to things. I know that HISD has *some* new campuses.

I believe this year will be the first year that HISD actually has to pay under Robin Hood...doesn't really make sense to me....

Also, on topic, I am sure our schools are under funded by the legislature, but you get the money you get and you have to plan and spend accordingly, this shortfall seems like a product of poor planning and spending. But I really hope it doesn't come down the Cy-Fair having to cut programs or anything of that ilk to degrade the educational experience in the district, but the money has to come from somewhere right? Cut programs, raise taxes, what are the other options?

[jimcas]

That's an opinion, actually.

Being able to differentiate between a fact and an opinion is a skill schools teach in...oh, about the first grade.

Or 7th grade if you go to school in HISD.

[VicMan]

Or 7th grade if you go to school in HISD.

I think the TAKS tests ask questions about difference between fact and opinion - I could check it and see if TAKS asks such questions and at what grade levels.

[Jedijake]

Several things would eleviate situations like this.

(1) Something that will never be done-state income tax. Sure, it's not truly worth bringing up since it will never take place, but it WOULD put somewhat of a fix on Texas' school finance issue.

(2) More money from the lottery going into education. I am not sure how much actually goes into education right now. They certainly advertise that some does.

(3) "Sin" tax. A little liberal I know, but more tax $$$ from cigarettes, alcohol, etc. Not a popular idea, but not a bad one either.

[TJones]

Several things would eleviate situations like this.

(3) "Sin" tax. A little liberal I know, but more tax $$$ from cigarettes, alcohol, etc. Not a popular idea, but not a bad one either.

This would be a "VICE" tax, smoking and drinking haven't been officially deemed "SINS" by the Catholic church yet...........YET !!!

[RedScare]

Several things would eleviate situations like this.

(1) Something that will never be done-state income tax. Sure, it's not truly worth bringing up since it will never take place, but it WOULD put somewhat of a fix on Texas' school finance issue.

(2) More money from the lottery going into education. I am not sure how much actually goes into education right now. They certainly advertise that some does.

(3) "Sin" tax. A little liberal I know, but more tax $$$ from cigarettes, alcohol, etc. Not a popular idea, but not a bad one either.

Well, since this is money for education, let's make the taxes fit the programs that are budgeted. Let's only tax people with children. Kind of like a toll road. You don't pay the toll if you do not drive on the road. So, why should I pay school taxes for your kids if I don't have any? And, what does my enjoyment of a cocktail and a smoke (something I can't even enjoy at the same time anymore) have to do with the fact that you couldn't keep it in your pants?

I'm assuming that you do not smoke, so you probably do not even know that I already pay $1.41 for every pack of cigs that I buy, AND that it goes to YOUR child's education. You probably do not drink much, or you'd realize the exorbitant tax already imposed on alcohol, AND that it goes to your child's education. Yet, you think taxing me harder for YOUR kids is a great idea? And, then you jack up my property taxes to pay for YOUR kids' football stadium? Explain THAT one to me.

EDIT: Oh, and just because your post got me all riled up, can you explain to me why a high school teacher living on MY tax dollars cannot spell "alleviate"?

Several things would eleviate situations like this.

[GettaClue]

CFISD needs to be broken up into 2 or 3 smaller, more manageable districts. Their economies of scale have officially run head-long into the law of diminishing returns. There is this irrational assumption that they "must" continue to grow, despite the fact that its growth is clearly not paying its own way.

Another thing that needs to be done before even one more cent in taxes is raised: CFISD needs drop their 100% Bus Ride policy! Many people are unaware that school bus service is available/provided for every child in the district, no matter how close or how far a child lives from the school. Even kids who's backyards literally open into the school yard are entitled to a school bus ride in CFISD. But every time yet another new round of schools is opened, many new buses must be added to the fleet and mainatained, drivers and mechanics hired, bus yards/garages built to house them all, etc.

While the district says it is committed to student safety with this bus plan, the fact is, no other district of this size in the US has such a policy. With gas prices as high they are, plus the district' finances as poor as they supposedly are, it's time for this nicety to be stamped "CANCELED." We simply cannot afford it anymore!!

(Besides, the kids could use the exercise and build a healthy walking habit, while our community's environment could do without all the diesel fumes of the fleet of several hundred buses traveling thousands of a miles a day throughout the district.)

[wernicke]

The amount of money CFISD gets from the state per student is less than what it takes to educate each student. So actually, every time they add more families out on 290 the deficit increases. To me this is a by-product of our state's (Perry/Craddick's) horribly misplaced priorities...

The problem is further compounded by the fact that Houston is absorbing huge numbers of immigrants from Mexico, which places a large burden on school districts that haven't figured out how to deal with teaching a non-English speaking population (they have tried keeping them Spanish only classrooms, phased Spanish to English classes over a few years, dropped them right into English only).

Also, how is it that one of the richest states in the country, with a budgetary surplus of $10 billion is close to last in public education (and also close to last in citizens with health insurance)?

[VicMan]

1. I totally agree with the bus statement. Kids need to walk. CFISD should set two miles as its distance.

2. I would like to see the portion of CFISD within the City of Houston given to Houston ISD - Two elementary schools and one middle school are in that section. The kids can be zoned to Scarborough HS in Oak Forest. I do not have any opinions about what happens to the rest of CFISD except that all of Jersey Village should be in one district and zoned to one elementary, one middle, and one high school.

CFISD needs to be broken up into 2 or 3 smaller, more manageable districts. Their economies of scale have officially run head-long into the law of diminishing returns. There is this irrational assumption that they "must" continue to grow, despite the fact that its growth is clearly not paying its own way.

Another thing that needs to be done before even one more cent in taxes is raised: CFISD needs drop their 100% Bus Ride policy! Many people are unaware that school bus service is available/provided for every child in the district, no matter how close or how far a child lives from the school. Even kids who's backyards literally open into the school yard are entitled to a school bus ride in CFISD. But every time yet another new round of schools is opened, many new buses must be added to the fleet and mainatained, drivers and mechanics hired, bus yards/garages built to house them all, etc.

While the district says it is committed to student safety with this bus plan, the fact is, no other district of this size in the US has such a policy. With gas prices as high they are, plus the district' finances as poor as they supposedly are, it's time for this nicety to be stamped "CANCELED." We simply cannot afford it anymore!!

(Besides, the kids could use the exercise and build a healthy walking habit, while our community's environment could do without all the diesel fumes of the fleet of several hundred buses traveling thousands of a miles a day throughout the district.)

[angtx]

1. I totally agree with the bus statement. Kids need to walk. CFISD should set two miles as its distance.

2. I would like to see the portion of CFISD within the City of Houston given to Houston ISD - Two elementary schools and one middle school are in that section. The kids can be zoned to Scarborough HS in Oak Forest. I do not have any opinions about what happens to the rest of CFISD except that all of Jersey Village should be in one district and zoned to one elementary, one middle, and one high school.

Maybe High School age and older Junior high kids can walk 2 miles but I don't think any elementary age child should be given that responsibility in this day and age. Who knows what could happen. They could get hit by a car or even abducted along the way. They are not mature enough to sense danger and not every parent is able to walk with them due to work schedules or other children that they care for. To apply a blanket policy as you stated would be irresponsible!

[VicMan]

In terms of safety and children I think things are just more publicized - not necessarily less safe. In any event, an older subling can walk with younger kids and/or kids can walk in groups and predators are less likely to disturb groups than lone individuals. I think the real problem may be a lack of sidewalks in some areas (I do not know how sidewalks are represented in CFISD)

And it is reasonable to establish such a policy. Houston ISD has the two mile limit, although it also allows kids who could not easily walk to school due to obstructions and special education kids to take buses. Now, another idea could be to make parents of elementary school children who want to take their kids on buses who live between 1 and 2 miles from school to *pay* for bus service. Middle and high school students under 2 miles and elementary school students under 1 mile (with no special conditions or obstructions) are simply not eligible to take a bus.

Maybe High School age and older Junior high kids can walk 2 miles but I don't think any elementary age child should be given that responsibility in this day and age. Who knows what could happen. They could get hit by a car or even abducted along the way. They are not mature enough to sense danger and not every parent is able to walk with them due to work schedules or other children that they care for. To apply a blanket policy as you stated would be irresponsible!

[TJones]

1. I totally agree with the bus statement. Kids need to walk. CFISD should set two miles as its distance.

I thought we wanted kids to go to school ? I can't think of ONE highschool kid that is gonna walk 2 miles in the morning to get to school. Better scale that back to 1 mile. Vic, go ask your friends around school if they'd WALK 2 miles to get to school