houston-development Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Trust me they are still going to be built! I know! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> please elaborate on how you "know" it's going to be built. do you "know" about the code violations? do you "know" that some units that were underwritten at $300 psf are now at $500 psf? do you "know" the equity player has a pretty penny vested in lofts at post oak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citykid09 Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Wait tell around October, If we haven't heard anything by then, mabe I was wrong, but I am pretty sure about this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houston-development Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Wait tell around October, If we haven't heard anything by then, mabe I was wrong, but I am pretty sure about this one. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> nothing personal citykid but comeon... thats like saying the sky will turn green tomorrow. while i can't tell you how i know or reasonings behind it, and perhaps ill be wrong, but you just have to trust me on this one. at least make up some bs for heavens sake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citykid09 Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Well how about you write them and ask them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrbaNerd Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 Why don't YOU do it? YOU seem to be the one most interested in this! I remember when you were screaming "The SHAMROCK WILL be built!!!!". Now, tell me, does the village still run to you when you cry wolf like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talbot Posted August 27, 2005 Share Posted August 27, 2005 That's too bad, it sounded at first like this was a pretty solid deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ18 Posted August 27, 2005 Share Posted August 27, 2005 I think this is gonna be built I remember seeing a comercial on TV advertising it and its been all over Papercity lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brijonmang Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 I think this is gonna be built I remember seeing a comercial on TV advertising it and its been all over Papercity lately.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>that doesnt really mean much these days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ18 Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 that doesnt really mean much these days<{POST_SNAPBACK}> I dunno you tell me. I belive it is because why would they show it on tv and Papercity if they weren't 100% sure it wasn't gonna be built. I bet Orion and Shamrock will get built sooner or later....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 After all, you don't get much more authoritative than "Paper City". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talbot Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 I dunno you tell me. I belive it is because why would they show it on tv and Papercity if they weren't 100% sure it wasn't gonna be built. I bet Orion and Shamrock will get built sooner or later.......<{POST_SNAPBACK}>Just because you see an advertisement for something doesn't mean it will happen. Any factor can change something, they run out of money, too many complaints, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjb434 Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 All the money they spend on advertising is one of the many problems they have experienced. To build a building like this, they set up a group of investors and partners. If they begin to squabble back an forth, the project could just end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houston-development Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 All the money they spend on advertising is one of the many problems they have experienced. To build a building like this, they set up a group of investors and partners. If they begin to squabble back an forth, the project could just end. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> actually, a majority of the money is coming from one group, tarragon. you cannot do a deal of this magnatude with an investor pool. also, the setbacks more complex than squabbling. its not like they are fighting over which predominate paint color to use Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjb434 Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 What are some of the set backs? I'm figuring a lot to do with financing, but that's my guess.I personally would like to know what exactly happened. It would be nice to know more about the process that goes into getting one of these project going. I know things happen and projects die. It's just a factor of life.I love looking at all the proposals, but I realize that the backing needs to be solid to move forward.I do have some issue with outside people (which includes myself) criticizing these projects when they fail. Thing happen and we have to roll with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houston-development Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 What are some of the set backs? I'm figuring a lot to do with financing, but that's my guess.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>go back through the thread and you'll see. and btw - it had more to do with underwriting than financing (two different things). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjb434 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Thanks for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENGcons Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 If you want an update on Orion I can give it. It is still in the works but on hold. This project has been faced with many difficulties since it began. Manhattan is to be the General Contractor on it. Currently the project is only under contract for the Foundation portion, the plans were not sufficient to meet ode but the owners wanted to get started. Manhattan is owed over $1 million fromthe owners and has decided to stop work after the Utility work goes in until they are paid. The original plan was one tower goes up, and the second 6 months after. Tower one last I heard was about 50% sold, and is probably more by now. This project has changed both owners, and architects. Having seen the plans myself I can understand why the original achitect was let go. Anyhow, the project is budgeted, and Manhattan is just waiting to pull the trigger, the owners are just having financial issues at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citykid09 Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 If you want an update on Orion I can give it. It is still in the works but on hold. This project has been faced with many difficulties since it began. Manhattan is to be the General Contractor on it. Currently the project is only under contract for the Foundation portion, the plans were not sufficient to meet ode but the owners wanted to get started. Manhattan is owed over $1 million fromthe owners and has decided to stop work after the Utility work goes in until they are paid. The original plan was one tower goes up, and the second 6 months after. Tower one last I heard was about 50% sold, and is probably more by now. This project has changed both owners, and architects. Having seen the plans myself I can understand why the original achitect was let go. Anyhow, the project is budgeted, and Manhattan is just waiting to pull the trigger, the owners are just having financial issues at the moment.Thats what I was trying to tell everybody. Hopefully everything goes well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YakuzaIce Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 ENGcons, could you give us any more info on Manhattan, the new general contractor. As you could probably guess searches don't exactly turn up the right results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENGcons Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 (edited) Here is Manhattan's website.http://www.manhattanconstruction.com/index2.cfmThey are one of the largest firms in Houston, and top 50 according to ENR. They were slated to be the GC for Orion from the get go. Manhattan resume includes:Reliant StadiumHermann Hospital additionsSt Lukes Proffessional TowerIAH multiple ProjectsCriminal Justie Building DowntownBaker Street JailLa Berge Dulac Casino in Lake CharlesBayou PlaceThey are a big time Contractor not only in Houston, but in the United States. Their next big thing is the new Cowboys Stadium, which was set in motion a long time ago. Edited October 19, 2005 by ENGcons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Hizzy! Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Thanks for the info, ENGcons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjb434 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 So this project is still on, albeit slowly?Good to see it is not completely over. I hope it moves forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENGcons Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 (edited) Oh, this project is definatly moving forward, there is to much already invested by the owners to get out. The deposit returns alone for the future condo owners would kill any development company. It is just not moving at the quickest pace possible. These condos start at $1.2 million with no finishes, and only go up from there. A deposit is required to secure a spot, $120,000 I believe. If you ever get the opportunity to take a look at the model condo over at the sales office I highly recommend it. Mind you, the model is not even the high end pad, and It is like a Rock Star house. Edited October 20, 2005 by ENGcons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 These condos start at $1.2 million with no finishes, and only go up from there. Actually, I thought the latest was that the plans were being revised and that the units would begin at a substantially lower price-point. What gives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 (edited) .... Edited October 20, 2005 by H-Town Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjb434 Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 You must be thinking of the Monaco. The tower was halted because they were getting any takers. The company was considering to go with cheaper and smaller units. I don't know what the status of that on is.The Orions were alway expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 (edited) You must be thinking of the Monaco. The tower was halted because they were getting any takers. The company was considering to go with cheaper and smaller units. I don't know what the status of that on is.The Orions were alway expensive.No, I'm thinking of Orion.----Project is put off for condo redesignConstruction of a $425 million high-rise condominiumproject planned for a site on Buffalo Bayou nearMemorial Drive and Shepherd has been postponed as thedevelopers redesign the building to contain moresmaller units. The luxury development, called Orion, originally wasdesigned as two 37-story towers with a total of 360units averaging 3,600 square feet in size and morethan $1 million in price."We found much more demand for 2,000-square-footapartments," said William Friedman, chairman of NewYork-based Tarragon Corp., which is developing theproject with Florida developer Robert Day.NANCY SARNOFF---http://www.chron.com/content/archive/ysear...hview=2&dview=1I believe this was also posted here somewhere. It appears the latest info is that the Orion plans are indeed being revamped for smaller, cheaper units. Does anybody have information otherwise? Edited October 21, 2005 by H-Town Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danes75 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 (edited) "We found much more demand for 2,000-square-foot apartments," said William Friedman, chairman of New York-based Tarragon Corp., which is developing the project with Florida developer Robert Day.i think its odd that, with investments of millions of dollars JUST in advertising, they didn't spend a little more time on research BEFORE all the hubub. how many multi-millionaires did they think houston actually had, and out of those, how many would want to live in a giant pink condo with a gold flame on top and no substantial retail close to it? Edited October 27, 2005 by danes75 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The New Juniper Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 "We found much more demand for 2,000-square-foot apartments," said William Friedman, chairman of New York-based Tarragon Corp., which is developing the project with Florida developer Robert Day.i think its odd that, with investments of millions of dollars JUST in advertising, they didn't spend a little more time on research BEFORE all the hubub. how many multi-millionaires did they think houston actually had, and out of those, how many would want to live in a giant pink condo with a gold flame on top and no substantial retail close to it?That just goes to show you that it isn't as easy as one would think to develop condominiums. They completely misjudged the market. Not by a little bit, but a ton. Enough to where they spent many millions of marketing dollars trying to sell a product only to realize the assumptions used to formulate the basis for the development were skewed. In the intervening months, construction costs have gotten away from them which will push the cost of even the newly designed smaller units up. Here is my prediction (and condo development is what i do for a living): The building will never get built. At least by this particular group. Even with re-designed, smaller units, they are in way too deep to ever recoup their costs, must less make a profit. They shouldn't chase bad money with more bad money. Cut your losses, lick your wounds, and live to fight another day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjb434 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 The truth hurts sometimes. And I think your telling the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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