Latitude Med Center: Residential Tower And Intercontinental Hotel

[Jax]

I noticed a variance request sign up on the fence of the parking lot between the Rice Collaborative Research Center construction and the Hilton Hotel. Does anybody know what it could be?

Edited March 17, 2008 by Jax

[King Owl]

Probably a 40 story hotel/condo project...

[lockmat]

Is that the same place KingOwl?

Swamplot's got the scoop

http://swamplot.com/newest-and-tallest-the...ndo/2008-02-28/

Added to wiki list. Change if needed

http://www.towrs.com/wiki/index.php/New_Pr..._Houston,_Texas

Edited February 28, 2008 by lockmat

[lockmat]

40 story hotel/condo at tmc and nobody cares? Yall must be really busy today.

[strickn]

swamplot always goes for the easy line and the smartass tone, which serves them right because the easy line so often undermines their pretense: For instance:

a 40-storey hotel and condo tower is neither going to be taller than a 31-storey office building nor a 27-storey hospital, because interfloor heights are more than a third lower for residential and especially hotel space.

[lockmat]

swamplot always goes for the easy line and the smartass tone, which serves them right because the easy line so often undermines their pretense: For instance:

a 40-storey hotel and condo tower is neither going to be taller than a 31-storey office building nor a 27-storey hospital, because interfloor heights are more than a third lower for residential and especially hotel space.

regardless, it's still something besides a hospital. Which is something we haven't really seen.

[Jax]

That rocks. I've always said that there needs to be more residential in the medical center (and in the medical center I don't mean next to the Astrodome). I could see a lot of doctors and professors living there, walking to work every day, and loving it.

[strickn]

That rocks. I've always said that there needs to be more residential in the medical center (and in the medical center I don't mean next to the Astrodome). I could see a lot of doctors and professors living there, walking to work every day, and loving it.

A lot of people have been waiting for this wrinkle in the Med Center's development, and if this were 18 months ago I'd imagine it would fill up quickly and inspire either an expansion or additional projects. Now? Though medical practice isn't going anywhere, money's getting tighter and people know it's only going to get tighter; a significant part of the money floating around in America was based in prospective value that didn't exist because the supposed riskiness (according to the MIT grads going to NY investment banks) of the speculative future revenues was in fact unrealistically low. In other words, that money wasn't any surer a thing than all the internet startups' future riches; it's just that "risk management" firms made things so complicated that no-one but them could understand much of the market... and their understanding, for its part, was incented - during these financial industry boom years, those volumes looked so good, and so expected, in the annual balance sheet - to be overly optimistic about the securities being bundled. I.e., they were wrong. Hopefully the developer, Medistar, already has their financing in place at reasonable rates. Anybody have an idea of it?

Edited February 29, 2008 by strickn

[ChannelTwoNews]

An early presentation from the civic club and other fun, featured on Swamplot...

http://swamplot.com/live-on-tv-new-med-cen...wer/2008-02-29/

Edited February 29, 2008 by ChannelTwoNews

[TheNiche]

[TheNiche]

40 story hotel/condo at tmc and nobody cares? Yall must be really busy today.

Jax needs to rename the thread to something a little more eye-catching than just to point out a variance sign. I passed the thread over for a day on account of that I didn't figure it to be anything important and also because CRC didn't exactly pop into my head as "Collaborative Research Center." I figured this might be related to the student housing project or something else.

Edited February 29, 2008 by TheNiche

[Mister X]

http://swamplot.com/live-on-tv-new-med-cen...wer/2008-02-29/

I couldn't resist any longer. I feel that every new tower going up in Houston deserves it's own thread with a descriptive name, especially 40-story ones. If I've broken any rules for creating a double thread for this project, I'm sorry. Please feel free to merge this with the "Variance Request" thread. But PLEASE keep MY topic title. No offense, JAX, I love your photos and comments. But this tower deserves more attention at Haif and a catchier thread name is all it needs.

Anal is a nice word for what I am.

Edited March 1, 2008 by Mister X

[TheNiche]

.

Edited March 1, 2008 by TheNiche

[Mister X]

I saw it, like 15 minutes ago. I didn't catch it until today because of the thread title. So, I just wanted this cool tower to have a more eye popping title. That's why I gave an apology on my first post and called myself 'anal'.

I figure the mods will delete this thread or merge it with the 'variance request' thread, but will hopefully keep this thread's title so that more people will know about this tower at HAIF. I meant well.

-Anyway, cool project, yes?

Edited March 1, 2008 by Mister X

[plumber2]

I learned that the City of Houston is proposing to move the street barricades on Southhampton at Travis to the west side of Travis and making the other two streets entering the neighborhood from Travis one way exits.

[Trae]

[CALMSP]

doesn't seem to block the view of hte twin peak towers..........thats a landmark for TMC............this is awesome to have another high-rise............

[strickn]

For better or worse, neato "that's just about right" visions like that first 4:52 graphic are why we get disproportionately giddy about high-rise development :-)

[Jax]

Can we merge with this thread?

http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/i...=15089&st=0

[bachanon]

done

[woolie]

fantastic news. let's move it to going up.

[wernicke]

I'm rotating at MD Anderson right now, and after being there for a bit I am amazed there aren't more hotels near the medical center. About half the patients we see are from out of state or out of country and some wind up staying in Houston for >1 month for treatment... also, these patients tend to be affluent, so it seems like a really fancy hotel would have no problems making money.

This came up the other day as there is a serious shortage right now because of rodeo season.

[ricco67]

I never worked with them directly, I do hear constantly about how enormously grateful they are to MDA for their help in a variety of areas.

While I never heard them complain about the costs of the hotels, I have heard complaints about availability and the lack of transportation.

Interestingly enough, they have a significant amount of culture shock they have compared the other cities they are from.

[Boris]

From Swamplot:

http://swamplot.com/houstonian-texas-medic...3-13/#more-1421

http://swamplot.com/live-on-tv-new-med-cen...wer/2008-02-29/

Edited March 13, 2008 by Boris

[lockmat]

more news. is it bad or good?

no condos. instead we get 100 apts and 303 guest rooms.

http://swamplot.com/med-center-houstonian-...3-14/#more-1430

[rsb320]

There will be a 12 story parking garage with greenspace on top. 70 apartments will be furnished.

This is my first new topic, so I hope I did it right and didn't create a duplicate. Swamplot is currently running an article.

[musicman]

duplicate thread here

[rsb320]

Sorry. Does someone know how to remove a topic?

Geez, I screwed up on my first topic.

[sevfiv]

No worries - they are combined now.

[woolie]

What basis do people have to complain about the height? It's marginally taller than the building directly across the street.

[JWW]

swamplot always goes for the easy line and the smartass tone, which serves them right because the easy line so often undermines their pretense: For instance:

a 40-storey hotel and condo tower is neither going to be taller than a 31-storey office building nor a 27-storey hospital, because interfloor heights are more than a third lower for residential and especially hotel space.

Why do the interfloor heights vary so drastically? I assume it has to do with the location of a/c equipment and water heating equipment but "...more than a third lower for residential and ESPECIALLY hotel space" is something I did not know.

[TheNiche]

Why do the interfloor heights vary so drastically? I assume it has to do with the location of a/c equipment and water heating equipment but "...more than a third lower for residential and ESPECIALLY hotel space" is something I did not know.

Office, medical, retail, and industrial spaces are designed specifically to be reconfigured on a regular basis. That is a key criterion that allows real estate of these sorts to be considered "investment grade". Office users in particular tend to have a massive number of electric recepticals, phone jacks, and RJ-45 connections compared to residential users working within the same floorplate. Office shell space also has to accomodate both users that would want a floorplan with tiny enclosed offices or cube farms, and HVAC gets more complicated when a user wants to go with tiny enclosed offices.

Although I've known of a few hotels that eventually get converted to residential (Memorial Towers and Rice Hotel come to mind), those conversions are major events in the history of such buildings, requiring a lot of structural engineering and a total retrofit of building systems. And on the whole, changes to the floorplans of residential or hotel buildings (that aren't being converted) are really extremely rare. Typical residential and hotel renovations would include that appliances, carpet, cabinets, bathroom fixtures, lighting fixtures, and trimwork be replaced. This fact allows for a greater degree of permenance, and that allows for lower inter-floor heights.

[ricco67]

Why is there a height limit for the buildings in the medical center? I don't think it is anywhere near any of the flight paths to/from Hobby.

[TheNiche]

Why is there a height limit for the buildings in the medical center? I don't think it is anywhere near any of the flight paths to/from Hobby.

Is there a height limit?

One of the runways, used frequently by SWA for landing 737s, and the very same one that gives Garden Villas its noise troubles, has an approach that is very close the the TMC. Even still, it strikes me as highly unlikely that a plane would be that low that far out.

[ricco67]

Is there a height limit?

One of the runways, used frequently by SWA for landing 737s, and the very same one that gives Garden Villas its noise troubles, has an approach that is very close the the TMC. Even still, it strikes me as highly unlikely that a plane would be that low that far out.

How tall is it? 458-and-a-half feet, according to the drawing

[woolie]

Why do the interfloor heights vary so drastically? I assume it has to do with the location of a/c equipment and water heating equipment but "...more than a third lower for residential and ESPECIALLY hotel space" is something I did not know.

As Niche pointed out above, but I'll just add that research space in particular needs *huge* interstitial spaces compared to office structures -- because of the complex ventilation, supply lines, electrical needs, etc. Look at the newish MD Anderson Research Tower. The floor count is low, but very tall comparatively.

[NewMND]

San Diego has a 500ft limit also, I didn't know the TMC did. Although something about that doesn't seem right, I remember reading an article that said once the TMC ran out of land, they'd have to start building very tall, which would be hard to do if there was a 500ft limit. I've never seen anywhere that said the TMC has a height limit, but maybe it is somewhere in the rules for building on the campus.

[Jax]

I've never heard of any height restriction. It could be a mistake on the part of the blogger who wrote that.

I remember getting into an argument with somebody a while back when I said that there needed to be more residential IN the medical center as opposed to out near the Astrodome or in the Almeda wasteland. I was told residential would never happen in the medical center. I'm glad I was right and this is actually looking like it is going to happen.

Edited March 17, 2008 by Jax

[TheNiche]

I was told residential would never happen in the medical center. I'm glad I was right and this is actually looking like it is going to happen.

Technically, this 40-story highrise is not within the TMC campus. No hotels, apartments, or any other for-profit operation is allowed within the TMC.

[ricco67]

I've never heard of any height restriction. It could be a mistake on the part of the blogger who wrote that.

I remember getting into an argument with somebody a while back when I said that there needed to be more residential IN the medical center as opposed to out near the Astrodome or in the Almeda wasteland. I was told residential would never happen in the medical center. I'm glad I was right and this is actually looking like it is going to happen.

I'm right there with you. Honestly there needs to be more of these in one form or another in some of the newer buildings that are being planned.

Happened to stumble upon the various requests of this project on TV (I need a life) and the variance requests on the terraces were approved. The project as far as I know isn't fully "go" yet, but getting close.

[Jax]

Technically, this 40-story highrise is not within the TMC campus. No hotels, apartments, or any other for-profit operation is allowed within the TMC.

Well, there's a hotel of some sort inside of MD Anderson (I had lunch there the other day) but apparently its only for patients and their families. And the Marriott and ex Crowne Plaza I would consider to be "on the campus" as well. Favrot Tower is also as much on the campus as you can get, and it's an apartment building (but only for TMC residents, fellows, students, doctors, etc).

The boundaries of what is on the campus changes so quickly that saying the new tower is "not on the campus" doesn't really mean much. The new highrise will be between a Baylor Clinic, the Rice Collaborative Research Center, and Baylor faculty center. And who knows what else in the future. If you want to call that "off campus" sure, but its more a part of the TMC than the residential buildings at Almeda and Reliant Park are, and that's my point.

Edited March 17, 2008 by Jax

[NewMND]

Why are for-profit organizations not allowed in the TMC? Seems like that kind of money, like from drug companies, would help the TMC have more than a boom, like maybe a super boom.

Edited March 17, 2008 by NewMND

[TheNiche]

Well, there's a hotel of some sort inside of MD Anderson (I had lunch there the other day) but apparently its only for patients and their families. And the Marriott and ex Crowne Plaza I would consider to be "on the campus" as well. Favrot Tower is also as much on the campus as you can get, and it's an apartment building (but only for TMC residents, fellows, students, doctors, etc).

The boundaries of what is on the campus changes so quickly that saying the new tower is "not on the campus" doesn't really mean much. The new highrise will be between a Baylor Clinic, the Rice Collaborative Research Center, and Baylor faculty center. And who knows what else in the future. If you want to call that "off campus" sure, but its more a part of the TMC than the residential buildings at Almeda and Reliant Park are, and that's my point.

I'm referring specifically to the deed restricted acreage. TMC member institutions own lots of other land nearby and south of Bray's Bayou, but that land isn't subject to the deed restrictions of the original TMC campus, which is east of Fannin Street.

If your definition of what is the TMC is broadened to include what is immediately adjacent to TMC member institutions, such as the UT Health Science Center or M.D. Anderson, then you've got to include the "Almeda wasteland" because pretty much all of it is only right across the street from those institutions.

[TheNiche]

Why are for-profit organizations not allowed in the TMC? Seems like that kind of money, like from drug companies, would help the TMC have more than a boom, like maybe a super boom.

If big pharma wants to take advantage of the TMC, they don't have to be smack-dab in the middle of it. An attempt was made to lure them into town by Lyme Properties on a site near Holcombe and Cambridge, but that never panned out. Similar attempts by other developers have also failed. Reserach space is expensive, TMC land is expense, and the pool of demand is pretty shallow.

They tend not to be here almost at all, though, because the venture capital to fund such enterprises is all on the east and west coasts, and the financiers like to keep them close by (which is why attempts of biotech business incubators haven't panned out well in Houston).

[LTAWACS]

If big pharma wants to take advantage of the TMC, they don't have to be smack-dab in the middle of it. An attempt was made to lure them into town by Lyme Properties on a site near Holcombe and Cambridge, but that never panned out. Similar attempts by other developers have also failed. Reserach space is expensive, TMC land is expense, and the pool of demand is pretty shallow.

They tend not to be here almost at all, though, because the venture capital to fund such enterprises is all on the east and west coasts, and the financiers like to keep them close by (which is why attempts of biotech business incubators haven't panned out well in Houston).

Surely there must be something we can do.

[ricco67]

Surely there must be something we can do.

Well, we could always open up our own bank and offer good financial terms.

Collectively, we might be able to afford to keep a pharmaceutical company financed for about....1 day.

[ChannelTwoNews]

Surely there must be something we can do.

Are you Xeelee on SSP?

[wernicke]

About a year ago I sat in on a presentation by a BioHouston representative who was addressing the problems you guys are talking about... it was an interesting presentation. They went into comparisons of patent applications, venture capital, start-up biotech companies between Houston and other biotech-heavy regions (like Boston and California), and Houston is definitely behind the curve in nurturing potentially high-dollar biotech enterprises derived from our biomedical industry.

[ricco67]

I wouldn't doubt that.

The companies down here are used to dealing with Oil and energy.

It would be a great benefit for them to come to Houston for a variety of reasons, two being "No State Income Taxes" and "No City Income Taxes."

They might want to come here, but there have to be enough of an infrastructure for them to be able to put their foot in the door.

[rsb320]

No for-profit hospitals are allowed on the TMC campus. That's why Texas Orthopedic Hospital (HCA) is at Greenbriar and S. Main and Park Plaza (Tenet) is near the Museum of Natural Science. Hotels, etc. that support TMC are allowed.