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It's That Time - Property Appraisal Advice Needed


Leon

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Most of it is land value. Price per square foot jumped from $24 to $30. That accounted for $40k of the increase. House went up too, but I'll get some of that back on the protest. But, the land value is nearly impossible to change. I knew it was coming, since after last year's protest I had the lowest value on my block, but 38% will make your heart skip a couple of beats.

OK... So if you don't mind me asking... Assuming you have established your place as your homestead. The max is no more than a 10% increase, by law. Right? So for everyone on here... that is seeing more than a 10% increase - on your homestead property - what is the deal? Why would HCAD purposely, in violation of state law, increase your taxes beyond the legal limit? Which is going to invite all kinds of protest. It doesn't seem like it is in their best interest, to violate the law, in such a fashion. Does the 10% apply only to the structure? And they can increase your land value, to the moon, without fear?

Someone please explain.

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OK... So if you don't mind me asking... Assuming you have established your place as your homestead. The max is no more than a 10% increase, by law. Right? So for everyone on here... that is seeing more than a 10% increase - on your homestead property - what is the deal? Why would HCAD purposely, in violation of state law, increase your taxes beyond the legal limit? Which is going to invite all kinds of protest. It doesn't seem like it is in their best interest, to violate the law, in such a fashion. Does the 10% apply only to the structure? And they can increase your land value, to the moon, without fear?

Someone please explain.

max 10% increase on appraised value. market can go up whatever.

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The MARKET value is jumping 38%. The APPRAISED value...the one that is used for tax purposes...will only rise 10%. However, since the market value is so high, my appraised value will also rise 10% next year, as well as the year after that, until it reaches the market value. So, while I will only get dinged for a 10% hit this year, looking forward, if this assessment holds, I will be getting dinged for 3 more years as well.

The good news is that my home investment equity is increasing. The bad news is that it is costing me every year to hold that investment.

EDIT: Not enough coffee. Used all the wrong terms.

Edited by RedScare
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I expected a raise from HCAD this year and they did not disappoint. 14% on the market value - all in land. I don't plan to protest because (1) I think my value is at least 5%-10% higher, (2) I have a sense of responsibility to fairly participate in the tax system, and (3) I recognize the unfortunate cost of maintaining a great home that makes me happy everytime I walk through the door (and sit on the porch!) and which provides me an 11-minute commute to work.

They dropped (yes, dropped...in the Heights...OMG...LOL!) our 2007 appraisal by 10k. It largely had to do with large new construction selling on the block. (No, I didn't protest last year either :D ). I'm interested to see what happens going forward. There are 5 homes for sale on my block, with lists ranging from $142k to $620k . Not that they will sell at or near list, but I enjoy visions of some HCAD person trying to figure out the math next year. ^_^

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38% will make your heart skip a couple of beats.

Try 243%. :o

My house has not been appraised since 2003, until now, reflecting just a hair under what I paid for it last year for both market and appraised. I knew it was coming, but still. Here's a good lesson in the stages of regentrification. Come in early and then when prices go up, its death of a thousand cuts getting the 10% hike year after year. Come in later and feel the pain all at once.

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no more partying for you!

au contraire...... now is most definitely not the time to stop. I opened the appraisal after busting my ass in the yard all day today, all achey and dirty. I just calmly put the papers back in the envelope, set it down, went to the icehouse, got a giant orange fountain soda, came home, poured out half and refilled with vodka before reading it again.

The question is, can anybody beat 243? Bueller?

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au contraire...... now is most definitely not the time to stop. I opened the appraisal after busting my ass in the yard all day today, all achey and dirty. I just calmly put the papers back in the envelope, set it down, went to the icehouse, got a giant orange fountain soda, came home, poured out half and refilled with vodka before reading it again.

The question is, can anybody beat 243? Bueller?

Nope you win hands down!

I just want to understand their theory this year of jacking up old house values and not touching property value. I think all us townies know what we paid for we we bought these old structures, and it was mostly for the land and location. Not for appreciation on a nice old battleship that needs something fixed monthly.

Edited by KatieDidIt
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Take pictures of your old portions. Take picture of "Total redos" in your neighborhood. They hit me for 120k on my 1967 house as well. We did pull a permit to put in a new Electrical box and to put GFI's in the house. I think that was 5,500 for all of it. Carpet/Paint/and some new cabinet doors do not make a house redone. I think its still 60% original. Look at the price per sq. foot. They are saying some of these old homes are as valuable as the ones built in 2007.

Should I also try and find the permit for the 2004 work that was done that they are claiming as a 'total' renovation? Does the city keep a record of historical permits? I wish I knew the actual definitions they use for 'Total', 'Extensive', 'Partial', etc. to know how to best refute their classification. When I went in to the ARB hearing last year, all my comps were 'Extensive' while my house was 'Total' (even though the comps were much nicer houses!) and so they heavily discounted all my evidence.

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Should I also try and find the permit for the 2004 work that was done that they are claiming as a 'total' renovation? Does the city keep a record of historical permits? I wish I knew the actual definitions they use for 'Total', 'Extensive', 'Partial', etc. to know how to best refute their classification. When I went in to the ARB hearing last year, all my comps were 'Extensive' while my house was 'Total' (even though the comps were much nicer houses!) and so they heavily discounted all my evidence.

Don't know what to tell you. Mine went from Partial to Extensive by putting in a new power service box and adding some more circuits so the house didn't burn down. It was more like FIXING than remodeling.

My house history says it was remodeled in 2003 by previous owners. I guess can lights and new kitchen counters is a remodel, even though the cabinets, floors, and upstairs bathrooms are all original. <shrug> It did have some smoking hot 1980's appliances though.

I just got my mail notice today. Anyone iFile yet? How long did it take to get back to you? Did they laugh and keep the appraisal the same?

Edited by KatieDidIt
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We purchased our Eastwood home late last year. As you can imagine with a long-homesteaded property, the appraised value at the time of purchase was WAY under market price (so was HCAD's market value for that matter). Anyway, we were certain they would jack the appraisal sky high this year since HCAD at least knows the range of what we paid (since that is on HAR).

Turns out not only did they keep it well under our purchase price, but they actually REDUCED their HCAD market price 1.3%! I noticed this on many of the homes on my street.

The land value stayed the same; the reduction was taken out of the building value

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What do you all think of this ifile or isettle deal? Don't you think it has more effect to be there in person with pictures and physical evidence?

I saw that too in the website! Luckily my value stayed the same this year, but that seems like a great convenience. If you have proper documentation, and are not asking for some outrageously high cut on your property value, I am sure they will give it to you. It is just another option and a great way to not waste a day waiting.

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One other question. Is there any downside to bringing evidence to your hearing of property defects? I have a report from my home inspection that talks about the foundation and the "unleveled" floors in part of the house. If I bring this to the hearing and it gets admitted into the record, can that come back to bite me later on when I sell the house (not that a buyer's home inspector wouldn't write the same stuff I'm sure, but no need to provide them with the ammunition for free ahead of time.)

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The question is, can anybody beat 243? Bueller?

Not quite but I'm mad as he :angry2:

Tax year 2008 2007 2006 2005

Appraised Value 225000 170000 170000 175000

This house is in the county and hasn't had any renovations in 35 years. It still has the original HVAC's units (inop)

Ugggg

We bought the cheapest house in the neighborhood and it's going to bite us in the rear. Now I can't even get the info off HAR.

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What do you all think of this ifile or isettle deal? Don't you think it has more effect to be there in person with pictures and physical evidence?

Start with ISettle. You do not have to accept their offer but it may be what you are looking for.

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  • 2 weeks later...
...and here is something else. If Texas is a non-disclosure state (that is you do not have to disclose what you paid for your house to the appraisal district) - then how do they model their appraisals? They have to be getting the sales data, somehow...

It's the stupid MLS (Multiple Listing Services). Even though they have no legal obligation to report your sale price to the AD, they do anyway. Next time I buy a house I am going to have it written into the contract that the final price not be disclosed.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Start with ISettle. You do not have to accept their offer but it may be what you are looking for.

Went to a talk given by Pat O'Connor yesterday evening re "Reducing Property Taxes"

O'Connor said from his experience with ISettle the offers are not favorable, his firm only accepted 7% of ISettle offers out of about 1,000 cases. O'Connot does not think the Isettle process considers any evidence submitted by the taxpayer, that it just develops an offer by a second computer model designed to give only a slightly lower valuation.

O'Connor alos said the 3 factors important to HCAD in evaluating a protest are Grade, CDU, and level of remodel.

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OK... So if you don't mind me asking... Assuming you have established your place as your homestead. The max is no more than a 10% increase, by law. Right? So for everyone on here... that is seeing more than a 10% increase - on your homestead property - what is the deal? Why would HCAD purposely, in violation of state law, increase your taxes beyond the legal limit? Which is going to invite all kinds of protest. It doesn't seem like it is in their best interest, to violate the law, in such a fashion. Does the 10% apply only to the structure? And they can increase your land value, to the moon, without fear?

Someone please explain.

I have the same question... my appraisal went up 11%. The tax appraisal, not market appraisal. Is this not illegal?

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Post #53... in this thread...

Sorry if I'm being obtuse, but I'm saying that my tax appraisal went up 11%. NOT my market appraisal. Post #53 seems to be in reference to the market appraisal going up. So I still don't get how my tax appraisal could be raised 11%.

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Sorry if I'm being obtuse, but I'm saying that my tax appraisal went up 11%. NOT my market appraisal. Post #53 seems to be in reference to the market appraisal going up. So I still don't get how my tax appraisal could be raised 11%.

So your market value was $200k and your appraised value went from say $180k to $190k? Sounds pretty normal to me if you've got a homestead...they're just raising your appraised value by 10% per year until it gets equal to the market value.

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Sorry if I'm being obtuse, but I'm saying that my tax appraisal went up 11%. NOT my market appraisal. Post #53 seems to be in reference to the market appraisal going up. So I still don't get how my tax appraisal could be raised 11%.

are you homesteaded?

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The people who are issuing the new taxable values are not looking up the homestead status. The more protests they receive, the more they will have to look at how they assign values.

They also raised my taxable value by about 15%. I have filed a complaint based on homestead.

How will they manage all of these protests?

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Okay. I guess I'm wasting my breath to point out how absurd it is for them to break their own rules.

The only way they're supposed to be able to break the 10% homestead cap is if you did remodeling or additions on the improvements....did you?

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They dinged us for 14%, too. Not the market value, the tax appraisal.

Thing is, I don't even think the market value is as high as the cap.

And finally, I think it's sad for HCAD to devise a program (i-settle) that is purposely confusing in an attempt to sucker people into staying out of the face-to-face system and paying more taxes than they should. Then again, it's the government and all the government ever wants is a bigger slice of my money. Sad, but not surprising.

Then again, this isn't even as remotely unfair as the way people get railroaded in municipal court for the sole purpose of revenue enhancement.

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Then again, this isn't even as remotely unfair as the way people get railroaded in municipal court for the sole purpose of revenue enhancement.

No kidding. My wife got a ticket several blocks from our house earlier this week for a rolling stop at a 4-way. She was adamant that she had come to a complete stop, but what do you think's going to happen if she contests the ticket and it's her word against a cop's? So I guess it's time for defensive driving class, so we can avoid the double whammy of a $245 fine plus getting dinged on our auto insurance.

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We fight ours every year (and get some back) and Dh asked them what we could do better next time to be more persuasive. Their answer was photos -- lots of them!! We were prepared this year to have pics of the hobo trash in our yard, people waiting in our yard for the bus, etc.

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I dont mean to high jack this posting, but i have been reading this post and my post entilted TAXES Help please!! sounds around like this. there a have been alot of good answers on this post if anyone would read and give me some more ideas i would be eternally grateful. this is my first house first protest, and im scared as He** thanks Emily

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I dont mean to high jack this posting, but i have been reading this post and my post entilted TAXES Help please!! sounds around like this. there a have been alot of good answers on this post if anyone would read and give me some more ideas i would be eternally grateful. this is my first house first protest, and im scared as He** thanks Emily

If you show up at Shiloh on Saturday, we will probably give a lecture on protesting property tax appraisals, among other topics. :D

See this thread for details.

Edited by RedScare
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  • 2 weeks later...

I think similar question was raised before but I appreciate an answer:

-the 2008 appraisal value for the house we bought in 2007 is up 1.7 times to a value very close the purchase price.

I assume:

1) Homestead exemption does not apply in this case

2) Protesting to lower the value below sales price will not work (do they know it?)

How about the things left in the house by previous owner - fridge, dishwasher, washer-drier, safe, TV, portable hot-tub - are these considered part of the taxable value of the house?

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I'll just add to this that I got a letter in the mail from O'Conner & Associates that had my tax record for the last 2 years on it then in blue ink written "Your taxes are too high" I also noticed the deadline for protesting listed on the letter was may 31st. I opened the letter on June 2nd.

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I'll just add to this that I got a letter in the mail from O'Conner & Associates that had my tax record for the last 2 years on it then in blue ink written "Your taxes are too high" I also noticed the deadline for protesting listed on the letter was may 31st. I opened the letter on June 2nd.

O'Connor isn't always Johnny-on-the-spot. I got the same letter you described last year a week after my protest hearing.

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Okay, I just went to my HCAD informal hearing yesterday. No reduction. I'm not really disappointed, as I expected it to be just a motion I had to go through to get to the ARB, which is next week.

A little background: I live out in the West Memorial area, in one of the 1960s-era Kickerillo neighborhoods in SBISD. I bought my house in June 2006, height of the real estate boom. It was my first time buying a house, I'm a scientist, not a businessman, the guy I bought it from is a CPA and a shrewd horsetrader. My wife and I had been pretty frustrated by the housing market at that time, were kind of desparate to get into something before the new schoolyear, we liked this house, and even though the previous owner didn't budge on stuff as much as we thought he should have after the inspection, we did buy the house. Bottom line - we paid too much for the house. Fortunately, not more than we can afford, and we got a traditional mortgage with a good interest rate, so really, the only time our stupidity at paying too much comes to bite us is when we pay the taxes, which we can afford, but obviously would like to be lower.

The house was built in 1965, about 2200 sq.ft., about 7800 sq. ft. lot. It's one story. We paid 308K. Last year, I went to HCAD, protested the market value, which was what we paid for it, without much confidence (and terribly naive about the process), but got a little moral victory out of getting it lowered to 299K. I thought "fair enough, we just bought it, so what we paid for it is the best they have to go by what it is worth."

Now it is a new year, and not only is there a little more time past since the purchase, the country is at the bottom of a major real estate slump. I figure that HCAD's purpose is not to perpetually punish me for my stupidity as a first time buyer, but assign me a fair and accurate market value for what the average buyer would pay for my house.

Well, this year, the market value for my house was raised to 332K. Appraisal value is 329K A standard 10% increase, maximum homestead exemption will allow them.

There are many houses on my street that are practically identical to mine in age, dimensions, condition. I looked at HCAD's website of this year's appraisals of them, and did a little math. HCAD

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O'Connor isn't always Johnny-on-the-spot. I got the same letter you described last year a week after my protest hearing.

Tell me about it with O'Conner not being Johnny-on-the-spot. I looked into using them last year, and had a pretty bad experience that will keep me from ever using them. Last year I filled out O'Conner's online form showing my interest in having them represent me the same day I filed my protest. Didn't hear from them, didn't hear from them, didn't hear from them - then realized I was going to be in Japan for work for two weeks, including the day of my hearing. I called HCAD and got my hearing pushed back to right after I got back from Japan. While I was still in Japan, got an email from my secretary telling me O'Conner called for me. This was several days after my initially scheduled date, and it was the first time I had heard from them. I got back from Japan on a saturday, with my rescheduled hearing the following monday. I found in my mail a packet from O'Conner that had been postmarked the previous thursday. I was supposed to fill that out with all the information on my house, sign an agreement, and get it back to them. Forget it, I would handle my protest myself. I got to HCAD that monday, checked in, the woman could not find me in the system, even though I had my yellow appointment sheet there. Turns out she found O'Conner had gotten attached to my account (even though I had never signed anything with them), and it was a pain getting them detached.

So this year, a couple of weeks ago, I got a message from O'Conner, saying that unless I returned their call, they would assume I had given them the right to represent me. I called and gave them holy hell, told them they better not screw up my account with HCAD again this year.

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I was browsing the HCAD web site and noticed that my protest hearing(s) have been scheduled.

I went to iFile and downloaded the evidence summary. I noticed that the "Subject Appraisal Ratio" is 1.11. This appears to be the ratio between the "Subject HCAD Noticed Market Value" (which is what my 2008 appraisal value is now) and the "Subject Indicated Market Value".

Does this mean that reducing my appraised value by 11% is a slam dunk? For example, if my "HCAD Noticed Market Value" is $111,000, and my "Subject Indicated Market Value" is $100,000, does it mean that HCAD will lower my appraisal from $111,000 to $100,000 once I point this out in the informal hearing?

This is rental property in Montrose, there is quite a large variation (28%) between the lowest and comps on the HCAD comparable sales analysis.

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Has anyone actually heard back from iSettle yet? I'm starting to question why I even used it, since physically going there last year worked out well enough

Not a word yet. They have me higher than any other house on the street right now by quite a bit, so hopefully they are fixing that.

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Has anyone actually heard back from iSettle yet? I'm starting to question why I even used it, since physically going there last year worked out well enough

yep. i received an email last saturday and i had a week to respond. while they did go down about 10k from the original letter, it was still higher than last yr. i replied that i want to go to the board.

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Has anyone actually heard back from iSettle yet? I'm starting to question why I even used it, since physically going there last year worked out well enough

I recieved a response via eMail, then a letter in the mail a little while later. I'm ignoring their iSettle offer and protesting in person.

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  • 2 weeks later...
I was browsing the HCAD web site and noticed that my protest hearing(s) have been scheduled.

I went to iFile and downloaded the evidence summary. I noticed that the "Subject Appraisal Ratio" is 1.11. This appears to be the ratio between the "Subject HCAD Noticed Market Value" (which is what my 2008 appraisal value is now) and the "Subject Indicated Market Value".

Does this mean that reducing my appraised value by 11% is a slam dunk? For example, if my "HCAD Noticed Market Value" is $111,000, and my "Subject Indicated Market Value" is $100,000, does it mean that HCAD will lower my appraisal from $111,000 to $100,000 once I point this out in the informal hearing?

This is rental property in Montrose, there is quite a large variation (28%) between the lowest and comps on the HCAD comparable sales analysis.

I had my informal this week, and the answer to my questiojn above is yes. But it gets even better if you are in HISD. the "ISD ratio" for HISD is 0.99, which means HCAD will multiply your "Subject Indicated Market Value" by 0.99 and offer that as their opening position, then hopefully you can negotiate downward from there.

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  • 2 weeks later...

WTF? Here is my response from iSettle:

Dear Property Owner: Thank you for signing up for our iSettle program. Unfortunately, after reviewing the information we have available, we cannot propose an online settlement for your 2008 protest. Since sales disclosure is not mandatory in Texas, we acknowledge that our market information may not be complete and that you may have evidence unique to your property that may support a reduction in your property
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