East End METRORail

[ricco67]

I don't know, maybe it's due to my apprehension to freight trains that goes back some years, but I don't like the sound in the least bit. However, seeing them is pretty cool and with that I would agree with your statement about new construction. I don't want to hear the train--AT ALL. I want to hear a pin drop inside my home louder than the noise of a freight train. Give me insulation that good and we're in business. I still would wonder about what those trains carry though.

That being said, Niche, if and when you build your townhomes along the Ship Channel with windows directed towards downtown as well as the moving ships and lights of the Ship Channel, I wouldn't mind being a customer.

You know, having lived within the 610 most of my life with the exception of a stint in the 'burbs, noises never bothered me. The preoccupation with getting rid of, and complaining about, "outside" noises amazes me. To me, its always been an indicator of what is going around your area. The only real noise that bothers me are the damned "thumping stereos" that come from cars.

Now as far as what "trains" are carrying? C'mon, you know they carry everything from Cars to Corn to the most flesh eating acids around. I figured you would have known better than to ask that question.

[crunchtastic]

I live 2 blocks from the Harrisburg line. There have been a couple of times where the train was loud enough to interrupt a conversation. I've always liked the sound of trains. The track rumble and the horn. It's a matter of how often the horns go off, though.

It's true what Ricco says about sounds letting you know what's going on in your immediate environment. On the front porch when the wind is right I can hear the skateboards at Eastwood Park. Neighborhood sounds like that make me feel like I'm part of the world and not just passing through in my sealed bubble.

[GovernorAggie]

Now as far as what "trains" are carrying? C'mon, you know they carry everything from Cars to Corn to the most flesh eating acids around. I figured you would have known better than to ask that question.

Hmmm, I could go back and try to respond point-by-point to what you said, but if you re-read the part that you italicized, you will see that there was no question asked, but a statement made.

"I still would wonder about what those trains carry though." In other words, I would be wondering about the contents of trains passing by outside of the window of a home in Niche's example.

[ricco67]

Hmmm, I could go back and try to respond point-by-point to what you said, but if you re-read the part that you italicized, you will see that there was no question asked, but a statement made.

"I still would wonder about what those trains carry though." In other words, I would be wondering about the contents of trains passing by outside of the window of a home in Niche's example.

Go ahead and respond point to point.

So, are you stating that you are curious of what the contents the trains (if we're talking about freight trains, and I assume we are) are carrying, or simply making a complaint of what the trains ARE carrying?

either way I don't care what they carry as long as it gets to where its going so I can buy my toilet paper from the quickie mart.

[wernicke]

That's correct. METRO claimed that it would be far more quiet than busses. Yet on many nights, after the traffic has died down, I can hear that horn up to a half-mile away, sometimes even indoors.

They only blow the horn when pedestrians/motor vehicles have the potential to be on the tracks... whereas the sound of a Metro bus passing by on street level can be deafening (esp if accelerating), not to mention the fumes. I would agree that on the whole the trains are far quieter than the busses.

[CDeb]

They only blow the horn when pedestrians/motor vehicles have the potential to be on the tracks...

This being Houston, that equates to roughly "all the time."

All joking aside, your statement isn't true. Take a look at the signs for the LRVs between the tracks. You'll see signs that say "HORN" at various spots, indicating that the LRT driver should blow the horn at that location.

[TheNiche]

They only blow the horn when pedestrians/motor vehicles have the potential to be on the tracks... whereas the sound of a Metro bus passing by on street level can be deafening (esp if accelerating), not to mention the fumes. I would agree that on the whole the trains are far quieter than the busses.

They blow their horns regularly at several locations along the line as a matter of protocol.

I've never under any circumstances heard a bus from a half-mile away. ...or perhaps I have and it was just part of the white noise, so I just haven't noticed. In any case, I'd rather the roar of a bus than the whine of an LRT horn. The horn is far more distracting.

[Houston19514]

Does it strike anyone else as quite odd that someone who claims to never go anywhere served by the rail line nevertheless

-- "on many nights, after the traffic has died down, . . . can hear that horn up to a half-mile away, sometimes even indoors.";

-- "knows" the rail is line is a miserable failure;

-- "knows" the rail line has caused congestion in midtown;

-- and "knows" the rail line has caused more congestion than it has alleviated ??

I'm just sayin'...

[TheNiche]

Does it strike anyone else as quite odd that someone who claims to never go anywhere served by the rail line nevertheless

-- "on many nights, after the traffic has died down, . . . can hear that horn up to a half-mile away, sometimes even indoors.";

-- "knows" the rail is line is a miserable failure;

-- "knows" the rail line has caused congestion in midtown;

-- and "knows" the rail line has caused more congestion than it has alleviated ??

I'm just sayin'...

What's with all the quotation marks around the word, "knows?" Up until just now, I haven't used that word anywhere in this thread.

I can indeed hear it from my place of residence; whether I use it or not is irrelevant to that I can hear it. I do go places that are theoretically served by the existing rail line (albeit infrequently), and in fact I do live in one of those places. When I go downtown or to the TMC, though, I use my car because the train does not make sense for me. I know that it doesn't make sense for me because I've tried riding it a couple of times and regarded each trip as a waste of resources. And because I do have to interact with it frequently as a driver, I can attest to its adverse effects on traffic.

Lies, damned lies and Houston19514!

[Houston19514]

What's with all the quotation marks around the word, "knows?" Up until just now, I haven't used that word anywhere in this thread.

I can indeed hear it from my place of residence; whether I use it or not is irrelevant to that I can hear it. I do go places that are theoretically served by the existing rail line (albeit infrequently), and in fact I do live in one of those places. When I go downtown or to the TMC, though, I use my car because the train does not make sense for me. I know that it doesn't make sense for me because I've tried riding it a couple of times and regarded each trip as a waste of resources. And because I do have to interact with it frequently as a driver, I can attest to its adverse effects on traffic.

Lies, damned lies and Houston19514!

Think of the quotes as air quotes. I used quote marks because you have stated all of those things as if they are verifiable facts, but have not and can not provide any evidence in support.

And after reviewing the thread, we can add another oddity... Someone who never goes anywhere served by the rail line who somehow mysteriously "knows" there is a problem with vagrancy and panhandling at Midtown stations, not to mention very detailed "knowledge" of the train horn practices...

If you can hear it from your place of residence, apparently you do indeed go to places the LRT goes... whether you choose to use it or not is irrelevant. So, I guess you were lying when you said "the LRT doesn't (and won't) go anywhere that I'd want to. "??

And your annoyance at having to interact with it as a driver (which again suggests you were lying when you said the LRT doesn't go anywhere that you'd want to) does not equal or provide evidence for your statements that the LRT is a miserable failure or that it has caused congestion in Midtown, or that it has caused more congestion than it has alleviated.

[TheNiche]

So, I guess you were lying when you said "the LRT doesn't (and won't) go anywhere that I'd want to. "??

It doesn't (and won't). Nor will it serve my place of employment.

[Houston19514]

It doesn't (and won't). Nor will it serve my place of employment.

LOL You're starting to get twisted up by your own lies. In post #39, you said that you do go places served by the existing LRT, but you choose to not use the rail line.

[TheNiche]

LOL You're starting to get twisted up by your own lies. In post #39, you said that you do go places served by the existing LRT, but you choose to not use the rail line.

Read more carefully and think it through.

[Houston19514]

Read more carefully and think it through.

ROFL Indeed, someone needs to think it through, and perhaps write more carefully.

Here are your exact words; read them carefully ;-)

Post #6: ". . . the LRT doesn't (and won't) go anywhere that I'd want to."

Post #39: "I do go places that are theoretically served by the existing rail line"

Also in Post #39, you told us that you have in fact ridden the LRT (presumably to some place you wanted to go): "I know that it doesn't make sense for me because I've tried riding it a couple of times and regarded each trip as a waste of resources. "

When I asked if your statements in Post #39 meant you had been lying when you said the LRT did not go anywhere you'd want to go, you responded in Post #41 by reiterating your initial claim: "It doesn't (and won't)."

And of course when I called you on the stark contradiction, you blame everything on my reading. You are too much, Niche. ;-)

[KinkaidAlum]

Does it strike anyone else as quite odd that someone who claims to never go anywhere served by the rail line nevertheless

-- "on many nights, after the traffic has died down, . . . can hear that horn up to a half-mile away, sometimes even indoors.";

-- "knows" the rail is line is a miserable failure;

-- "knows" the rail line has caused congestion in midtown;

-- and "knows" the rail line has caused more congestion than it has alleviated ??

I'm just sayin'...

Spot on 19514!

Think of the quotes as air quotes. I used quote marks because you have stated all of those things as if they are verifiable facts, but have not and can not provide any evidence in support.

And after reviewing the thread, we can add another oddity... Someone who never goes anywhere served by the rail line who somehow mysteriously "knows" there is a problem with vagrancy and panhandling at Midtown stations, not to mention very detailed "knowledge" of the train horn practices...

If you can hear it from your place of residence, apparently you do indeed go to places the LRT goes... whether you choose to use it or not is irrelevant. So, I guess you were lying when you said "the LRT doesn't (and won't) go anywhere that I'd want to. "??

And your annoyance at having to interact with it as a driver (which again suggests you were lying when you said the LRT doesn't go anywhere that you'd want to) does not equal or provide evidence for your statements that the LRT is a miserable failure or that it has caused congestion in Midtown, or that it has caused more congestion than it has alleviated.

I think the Niche relies upon studies taken by Musicman and his transit firm, AMWHUT.

[TheNiche]

...presumably to some place you wanted to go...

You are presume too much. Clearly it is not your reading comprehension skills that need improvement, just that you ought to learn not to make assumptions about peoples' preferences.

Why would I ever WANT to go to the Texas Medical Center. It can only possibly ever mean that I'm diseased or am visiting someone else that is diseased. Either is a very unpleasant occurance.

Why would I ever WANT to go downtown? It can only possibly ever mean that I'm about to attend an industry event (more often than not put on by preachy urbanistas), that I'm visiting my lawyer, that I have jury duty, that I'm bailing someone out of jail (or about to be bailed out), or that I'm partaking of some socialization in an overpriced venue (such as a yuppie bar or MMP) that I'm only tolerating in order to be around the individuals that place value on such things. And so although I don't really ever want to go there, I do.

And as for home...why would I ever WANT to live there? I'm working towards moving, but its simply in no shape to rent out right now and I'm unwilling to sell because whether it suits me or not, it is a good investment, and on top of that, my cash is tied up in various investments right now so that I can't do the $6k in renovations that need to happen first and then immediately move where I want to move. Simple as that.

I do want to go to work...if not every day, then at least from time to time...but the LRT does not (and will not) ever go there. Too many rich people nearby would complain about property crime and vagrancy.

[GovernorAggie]

So, are you stating that you are curious of what the contents the trains (if we're talking about freight trains, and I assume we are) are carrying, or simply making a complaint of what the trains ARE carrying?

I think I'm complaining about neither. I just see too many trains parked on the tracks that carry a lot of not-so-cool stuff (and I think that's risky--just my opinion).

Furthermore (and this falls into the fear of a plane crash territory) a derailment can lead to situations involving a release of whatever may be contained. Yes I realize that I am bringing this up amongst a group of people who tend to quantitate every single thing in life, so I am aware that a derailment probably has at best a 1 in a million chance of happening.

Or maybe I'm just prejudiced against freight trains.

[Jax]

I do want to go to work...if not every day, then at least from time to time...but the LRT does not (and will not) ever go there. Too many rich people nearby would complain about property crime and vagrancy.

Where do you work?

[TheNiche]

Where do you work?

A realm into which the LRT won't ever penetrate. I'll PM you.

[Jax]

Outside the loop.. yeah I don't see the Metro Rail offering service outside the loop any time soon.

[editor]

Look at all them "po' folks" who take the train! Fortunately, The Niche is going to move onto an abandoned oil rig offshore so he won't have to be bothered by other people who might want to use "toy" mass transit.

[TheNiche]

Look at all them "po' folks" who take the train! Fortunately, The Niche is going to move onto an abandoned oil rig offshore so he won't have to be bothered by other people who might want to use "toy" mass transit.

I suppose that once LRT is extended into the East End, Third Ward, and out towards Hillcroft, as well as more thoroughly integrated with the bus systems, you believe that the residents of Cuny Homes will only boycott it while the forces of regentrification will walk well beyond a reasonable distance through the slummy areas to ride the toy train? No, not gonna happen. And as far as Main Street goes, we've had posters put up crime dot density maps before, and it is indeed a high crime corridor through Midtown.

Poor pedestrians are the highest form of security threat. They have plenty of time to scope out a place and look for opportunities for theft and vandalism, and they also have much less to lose in life if they get caught. The size of the bull's eye on my target is the same as the next guy's, but the next guy happens to be standing in front of me. That's the way I like it. That's (one reason) why I'll never live right next to LRT or near a bus stop.

And as someone that has studied the consumption behavior of poor households, I can assure you that the greater part of them don't want to live right next to transit, either. Near is best, None is ok, and Next to is worst.

...The Niche is going to move onto an abandoned oil rig offshore...

Aww...now you've got me daydreaming.

[KinkaidAlum]

I suppose that once LRT is extended into the East End, Third Ward, and out towards Hillcroft, as well as more thoroughly integrated with the bus systems, you believe that the residents of Cuny Homes will only boycott it while the forces of regentrification will walk well beyond a reasonable distance through the slummy areas to ride the toy train? No, not gonna happen. And as far as Main Street goes, we've had posters put up crime dot density maps before, and it is indeed a high crime corridor through Midtown.

Poor pedestrians are the highest form of security threat. They have plenty of time to scope out a place and look for opportunities for theft and vandalism, and they also have much less to lose in life if they get caught. The size of the bull's eye on my target is the same as the next guy's, but the next guy happens to be standing in front of me. That's the way I like it. That's (one reason) why I'll never live right next to LRT or near a bus stop.

And as someone that has studied the consumption behavior of poor households, I can assure you that the greater part of them don't want to live right next to transit, either. Near is best, None is ok, and Next to is worst.

This is by far one of your biggest stretches ever. So, poor people without cars would rather live in areas without reliable transit than right next to transit stations? LOL. Was your case study one family?

[TheNiche]

This is by far one of your biggest stretches ever. So, poor people without cars would rather live in areas without reliable transit than right next to transit stations? LOL. Was your case study one family?

Focus groups. About a couple dozen households.

[Jax]

And as someone that has studied the consumption behavior of poor households, I can assure you that the greater part of them don't want to live right next to transit, either. Near is best, None is ok, and Next to is worst.

I can assure you that anybody would prefer to live next to a good transit system than to have nothing. Who came up with that theory?

By the way, it will be interesting to see whether the train being right next to this building affects its popularity. I'd gladly live there if I could afford it.

[JJxvi]

and not take twice the time per mile as if I were to drive or use an absurdly circuituitous path

I would think that for someone like you the absurdly circuitous route would be irrelevant. This is a ridiculous example, but lets say you could get from TMC to Downtown via uptown in 5 min vs 10 min driving, that the circuitous route would lead you to choose the latter?

[TheNiche]

I can assure you that anybody would prefer to live next to a good transit system than to have nothing. Who came up with that theory?

Poor Mexicans with a relatively high propensity for transit use.

I'll PM you.

[TheNiche]

I would think that for someone like you the absurdly circuitous route would be irrelevant.

Someone like me? Well that's interesting...who am I?

This is a ridiculous example, but lets say you could get from TMC to Downtown via uptown in 5 min vs 10 min driving, that the circuitous route would lead you to choose the latter?

As a rule of thumb, I'd be willing to use transit if it'd save me time. If it took 5 minutes to walk, wait, ride LRT, transfer, ride LRT, and walk between an origin and destination, whereas it took 10 minutes to drive from door-to-door, then I don't care what the route is, I'll use the LRT (unless its raining, I need to haul something heavy, I intend to add another leg to my trip that the LRT can't access, etc.). But realistically, LRT has an effective speed limit well below what is technically possible, and a circuituitous route works against me.

[Jax]

I can assure you that anybody would prefer to live next to a good transit system than to have nothing. Who came up with that theory?

Poor Mexicans with a relatively high propensity for transit use.

So poor Mexican Americans with a relatively high propensity for transit use would rather have NO transit than a station near their house? I think your study might have been flawed.

[TheNiche]

So poor Mexican Americans with a relatively high propensity for transit use would rather have NO transit than a station near their house? I think your study might have been flawed.

They ride transit because they have to. It is an affordability issue. If they could afford it, most would move to a suburb with a better school district and buy more and better cars, not blinking an eye at the fact that transit would be less accessible. If it happened to be nearby (but not across the street from them), its seen as an amenity, albeit not a very important one if they're already able to afford the 'American dream'. If the transit is right across the street, its seen as at least a nuisance (from noise and activity) and as at most a danger to the safety of their children (from incompetent bus drivers with poor reflexes or from unsavory persons).

You see transit from an entirely different perspective. You're thinking about it in the context of yuppie neighborhoods rather than ghettos. You're thinking about it with an eye towards environmentalism. You commute to a hub of mostly white collar employment where parking is expensive, whereas they're ultimately trying to catch a bus that'll take them to a service-sector job in an area that's not quite urban and would have plentiful parking if only they could afford a car. You don't have a kid about which to be paranoid and protective...either of the kid or the kid's economic welfare...provided by you.

You've got to learn to see through another person's eyes. Not everybody has the same preferences, and if they happen to be different from your own, that shouldn't shock or offend you. There's often a method to the madness.