Harris County Jail At 1200 Baker St.

[H-Town Man]

Anyone know the story on the proposed Harris County Jail that was defeated in the bond election last November? Apparently it would have covered much of the north bank of the bayou downtown... so much so that the Buffalo Bayou Partnership's planned trail would have had to veer away from the bayou and circle around the building.

So is it dead for good, or only postponed? And why are we lining Buffalo Bayou with jails anyway? Don't most counties put jails in out-of-the-way locations? As in, not the city's main waterfront?

[TheNiche]

Anyone know the story on the proposed Harris County Jail that was defeated in the bond election last November? Apparently it would have covered much of the north bank of the bayou downtown...

If I'm not mistaken, this processing facility would've been across San Jacinto from the jail, and not along the waterfront.

[RWB]

Anyone know the story on the proposed Harris County Jail that was defeated in the bond election last November? Apparently it would have covered much of the north bank of the bayou downtown... so much so that the Buffalo Bayou Partnership's planned trail would have had to veer away from the bayou and circle around the building.

So is it dead for good, or only postponed? And why are we lining Buffalo Bayou with jails anyway? Don't most counties put jails in out-of-the-way locations? As in, not the city's main waterfront?

The courthouse (and the inmate processing center) are right across the Bayou from the jails, so it is kind of convenient to have jails there. On the other hand, for persons serving longer sentences (who have already had their day in court), I agree-why not build a jail on cheap land in some relatively undeveloped part of Harris County.

[musicman]

So is it dead for good, or only postponed?

I'm sure another bond election will be forthcoming.

[RedScare]

If I'm not mistaken, this processing facility would've been across San Jacinto from the jail, and not along the waterfront.

No, it is proposed on the north bank of Buffalo Bayou, directly next to the Baker Street Jail. It is proposed for this location for two reasons. One, it is directly adjacent to the other jail facilities, so after inmates are processed, they can walk them through secure tunnels to their bunks in the adjoining jails. Two, the County already owns the land, so it is cost beneficial to taxpayers.

It should be noted that an inmate processing center does just that...processes incoming inmates. It does not hold long term prisoners. It is for the processing of arrestees from the various police departments (including Houston, which currently does their own), before moving them into the County jails next door. For bayou lovers, this bond defeat does not keep jails off the bayou. There are currently 3 jails in this area...two on the waterfront. This facility would simply process inmates more efficiently, including Houston's.

[Jax]

It really is a shame that the waterfront is lined with jails. I went on a boat cruise in the Bayou last summer and the guy giving the tour said that most people mistake one of the jails for condos, but always ask why those condos don't have balconies. It actually doesn't look that bad from the outside, and it's got to have an amazing view of the skyline.

[RWB]

It really is a shame that the waterfront is lined with jails. I went on a boat cruise in the Bayou last summer and the guy giving the tour said that most people mistake one of the jails for condos, but always ask why those condos don't have balconies. It actually doesn't look that bad from the outside, and it's got to have an amazing view of the skyline.

As far as I can tell, the windows of the jail at 701 N. San Jac are completely blacked out! (http://www.hcso.hctx.net/detention/701.asp) So no great views from there.

And I don't think the 1301 Baker jail has windows at all. But the other one might.

Harris County made an effort to make 701 and 1201 Baker look nice, it has to be said.

[RWB]

No, it is proposed on the north bank of Buffalo Bayou, directly next to the Baker Street Jail. It is proposed for this location for two reasons. One, it is directly adjacent to the other jail facilities, so after inmates are processed, they can walk them through secure tunnels to their bunks in the adjoining jails. Two, the County already owns the land, so it is cost beneficial to taxpayers.

It should be noted that an inmate processing center does just that...processes incoming inmates. It does not hold long term prisoners. It is for the processing of arrestees from the various police departments (including Houston, which currently does their own), before moving them into the County jails next door. For bayou lovers, this bond defeat does not keep jails off the bayou. There are currently 3 jails in this area...two on the waterfront. This facility would simply process inmates more efficiently, including Houston's.

Would this have made the inmate processing center on the south side of the bayou redundant? And if so, do you know if they would have taken away the concrete inmate pedestrian bridge currently connecting the inmate processing center to the jail? (Of course, they would probably still need to use it to ferry prisoners back and forth between court and jail.)

[gonzo1976]

Don't most counties put jails in out-of-the-way locations? As in, not the city's main waterfront?

When I lived in Columbia, S.C., the jail was way out in some undeveloped area of the county. In Corpus, the jail is next to the County Courthouse. It's close to downtown, but it's not on Ocean Drive or anything like that.

I guess before building a jail in an out-of-the-way spot, one has to consider the cost of transporting newly arrested inmates to that facility, plus shuttling them back to the Criminal Justice Center for court appearances, etc. Considering the size of Harris County, I'm sure that would eat up a fuel budget in no time.

[H-Town Man]

For bayou lovers, this bond defeat does not keep jails off the bayou. There are currently 3 jails in this area...two on the waterfront.

But both of those waterfront jails actually preserve the bank and leave space for a trail. The plan for this jail was to actually have it going on stilts to the edge of the water!

I guess before building a jail in an out-of-the-way spot, one has to consider the cost of transporting newly arrested inmates to that facility, plus shuttling them back to the Criminal Justice Center for court appearances, etc. Considering the size of Harris County, I'm sure that would eat up a fuel budget in no time.

Well, no one said it had to be on the county border. Why not just put these things east of 59 somewhere (bus ride ~3 minutes), and not overwhelm the downtown waterfront with prisons?

Seriously, I can't believe more people aren't up in arms about this.

Edited February 11, 2008 by H-Town Man

[Zippy]

The jails have been here for a number of years, and as long as the court houses are downtown, the jails will be downtown.. Shuttling in a few hundred prisoners every day does not make sense.. Plus family visitation, lawyer visitations (many large law firms are also downtown), would make this more difficult..

The new jails are at least somewhat architecturally pleasant, not like the old ugly one on congress which will eventually go away. The new IPC was to be on the north side of the bayou, south side of Baker St, where there is currently a muddy parking lot. HPD and the Sheriff's Office will share this processing center and add a few thousand new beds. Design is still under way so we'll see.

The bond proposal defeat has not changed anything, the jail is still on schedule. Remaining funding will most likely come from the feds.

There is a larger homeless problem in downtown Houston than having inmates roaming around. I would be more embarrassed about cruising the bayou and saying.. oh.. there's another homeless camp.. and there's another.. and there's another..

[MidtownCoog]

I know it's too late, but they should move all the jails and courts, etc. into the Warehouse District.

[RWB]

I know it's too late, but they should move all the jails and courts, etc. into the Warehouse District.

Aren't they already in a warehouse district? Indeed, one of them is a converted cold-storage warehouse.

In any cases, the jails need to be near the courts, so any talk of moving the jails would mean moving the entire county criminal justice apparatus. I can think of better uses for my tax dollars. (I guess it would make sense if the cost of the downtown land sold was actually less than the cost of buying land and building courts/jails elsewhere in the county.)

[jgriff]

I've always found it amusing that a lot of people in the Houston area only go downtown to serve some time, pay a ticket, or bail someone out of jail. It kind of makes downtown an unhappy place for a lot of people. I had to spend a day waiting for someone to get out of jail for traffic tickets downtown once. It was one of the most miserable days of my life.

[RedScare]

Aren't they already in a warehouse district? Indeed, one of them is a converted cold-storage warehouse.

In any cases, the jails need to be near the courts, so any talk of moving the jails would mean moving the entire county criminal justice apparatus. I can think of better uses for my tax dollars. (I guess it would make sense if the cost of the downtown land sold was actually less than the cost of buying land and building courts/jails elsewhere in the county.)

The converted cold storage facility is not a County jail, but rather an Intermediate Sanction Facility run by the State. In short, it is where parolees are sent for minor infractions, instead of sending them back to our overcrowded prisons. For those who think they have never seen it, it is across the street from Minute Maid Park at Preston and Crawford.

[sarahiki]

As far as I can tell, the windows of the jail at 701 N. San Jac are completely blacked out! (http://www.hcso.hctx.net/detention/701.asp) So no great views from there.

And I don't think the 1301 Baker jail has windows at all. But the other one might.

Harris County made an effort to make 701 and 1201 Baker look nice, it has to be said.

Yes, I was told those were "fake" windows.

[LTAWACS]

But both of those waterfront jails actually preserve the bank and leave space for a trail. The plan for this jail was to actually have it going on stilts to the edge of the water!

Well, no one said it had to be on the county border. Why not just put these things east of 59 somewhere (bus ride ~3 minutes), and not overwhelm the downtown waterfront with prisons?

Seriously, I can't believe more people aren't up in arms about this.

Are you kidding? I've been saying this for a long time. Whenever someone proposes a new this or new that along the bayou/trails/whatever, I always say that it would not be such a good location because:

1. All the homeless bums/panhandlers there. Some more determined. Some not as much.

2. All the newly-release prisoners. Some violent. Some not.

One proposal for a park or some outdoor type of thing was going to be a block or two from where they release all the prisoners. Great! Sheeesh. I've always wondered who in their right mind would take an evening stroll through this part of town with all the inmates and such.

I saw a map of Houston homocides a day or two ago (here on haif or on ssp). Perhaps a better, more efficient setup would be to build a processing center closer/in the area where there is the most crime. That would be in the southwest part of town. This would be beneficial in two ways.

1. Less fuel wasted transporting criminals here and there. One could process them then put them in [underground] jails right away.

2. Would let some of the downtown buildings/land currently used for criminal system support be freed up/demolished for an economically better use.

Perhaps my ideas are strange or crazy. Right now they seem to make sense.

[RedScare]

If you don't consider the quarter of a billion dollars spent on all of these facilities in the past 10 or so years, and if you do not consider the costs of transporting prisoners back and forth from jails to courts, and if you do not consider the costs associated with spreading paperwork functions to far flung places, it might make a little sense, but not much.

The criminal justice system is extremely labor intensive, due to security issues. The County designated this area as its criminal justice zone 15 to 20 years ago, when no one wanted the area, and land was cheap. Over the years, they have designed and built new courts, new jails and secure tunnels to meet criminal justice needs. There are over 9,000 inmates in the jails. There are 37 criminal courts. Hundreds of inmates are brought to court EVERY day. Prior to the building of these new facilities, the inmates were literally walked down the street to court. Now, they are in secure tunnels, out of sight and away from the public.

Sometimes the desires of the public conflict with day-to-day needs of running government. Prior to the proposal to beautify the Bayou, no one cared about the wasteland north of downtown. Now that some see its value, some want to move everything. Frankly, that is simply not possible. The courthouse district has IMPROVED this area of downtown, not ruined it. Hundreds of millions of dollars have been spent to upgrade the facilities and beautify the area. Even the jails have been designed to blend in and mask their real function. It is a safe area, as well. Hundreds of cops mill around the area daily. Inmates released from the jails are prone to leave as soon as possible, as they do not have fond memories of their time in this area. While one can imagine all sorts of possible dangers, the reality on the ground is much different than your imagination.

I have spent the last 12 years of my life in and around this area. I have watched the transformation. I have also walked every inch of the district. I have never felt even the slightest danger. I realize that some will feel insecurity no matter the realities on the ground, but the fact is, Harris County has done a great job with this area. And, there is more to come. If all we have to complain about is one 3 block stretch on the north side of the bayou, we'll be in really good shape.

[RWB]

The converted cold storage facility is not a County jail, but rather an Intermediate Sanction Facility run by the State. In short, it is where parolees are sent for minor infractions, instead of sending them back to our overcrowded prisons. For those who think they have never seen it, it is across the street from Minute Maid Park at Preston and Crawford.

I think we are talking about different facilities. The one I am thinking of is definitely a county jail, and it is just north of Buffalo Bayou on San Jacinto. You can read about it and see a photo here: http://www.hcso.hctx.net/detention/701.asp

[RedScare]

I think we are talking about different facilities. The one I am thinking of is definitely a county jail, and it is just north of Buffalo Bayou on San Jacinto. You can read about it and see a photo here: http://www.hcso.hctx.net/detention/701.asp

I'm sorry, RWB. I never realized that 701 was a converted building (I was in Fort Worth when it was built). They did such a good job with it that I thought it was new construction, not a renovation.

[RWB]

Are you kidding? I've been saying this for a long time. Whenever someone proposes a new this or new that along the bayou/trails/whatever, I always say that it would not be such a good location because:

1. All the homeless bums/panhandlers there. Some more determined. Some not as much.

2. All the newly-release prisoners. Some violent. Some not.

One proposal for a park or some outdoor type of thing was going to be a block or two from where they release all the prisoners. Great! Sheeesh. I've always wondered who in their right mind would take an evening stroll through this part of town with all the inmates and such.

There are already several parks near and adjacent to the jails now. So all that is being proposed is something to conect the existing parks. You are probably right about the homeless--they have already colonized James Bute Park (which is one of the Bayou-adjacent parks downtown). I think you are wromg about crime. There might be lots of criminals getting out of jail there, but there are also huge numbers of cops there too. Cops are usually a pretty good deterrent. crimehouston.com bears this out. The map below shows all the murders and rapes in the neighborhood from January 28, 2005 to January 31, 2008. Murders would be represented by a red dot, if there were any. There have been 8 rapes, which is 8 too many. But compared with other parts of Houston, it's not an outrageous number for a three year period. Indeed, if you scroll in almost any direction from this map (except directly west), the numbers of rapes and murders gets worse.

The jails are along Baker and Allen, by the way.

[RWB]

If you don't consider the quarter of a billion dollars spent on all of these facilities in the past 10 or so years, and if you do not consider the costs of transporting prisoners back and forth from jails to courts, and if you do not consider the costs associated with spreading paperwork functions to far flung places, it might make a little sense, but not much.

I have spent the last 12 years of my life in and around this area. I have watched the transformation. I have also walked every inch of the district. I have never felt even the slightest danger. I realize that some will feel insecurity no matter the realities on the ground, but the fact is, Harris County has done a great job with this area. And, there is more to come. If all we have to complain about is one 3 block stretch on the north side of the bayou, we'll be in really good shape.

I agree. Jails are going to have to be somewhere, and that somewhere might be an undesirable or remote area when they are built, but 10-20-30 years from then, that somewhere might be very valuable and desirable real estate.

They have made the jails look pretty great--so great that I'm sure people regularly assume they are part of U.H. Downtown when they first see them. In fact, they are a model for what governments should do with public property in terms of esthetics. It is reasonable to ask whether they have boxed themselves into a corner--can they really afford to expand downtown if they need to? Possibly not. But at the same time, moving the jails (and the courts) would be prohibitively expensive.

[RedScare]

I agree. Jails are going to have to be somewhere, and that somewhere might be an undesirable or remote area when they are built, but 10-20-30 years from then, that somewhere might be very valuable and desirable real estate.

They have made the jails look pretty great--so great that I'm sure people regularly assume they are part of U.H. Downtown when they first see them. In fact, they are a model for what governments should do with public property in terms of esthetics. It is reasonable to ask whether they have boxed themselves into a corner--can they really afford to expand downtown if they need to? Possibly not. But at the same time, moving the jails (and the courts) would be prohibitively expensive.

The County purchased a lot of land during the real estate bust that allows for all of this expansion. In fact, once the County "campus" is complete, they will have surplus buildings that will be sold. Additionally, the County owns land near Atascosita that houses some jail facilities. There is a proposal to build a 1,152 bed minimum security jail out there to house inmates who are serving misdemeanor sentences. Since they will be finished with their court appearances, they can be housed away from the courts, freeing up jail space for those who have court dates.

I notice that many of the complaints have come from people who have no idea how much planning the County has done for present and future needs. The assumption seems to be since they have not looked for the County's plans, this must mean the County does not have any. This could not be farther from the truth. If you'd google a little bit, you'd be stunned at what the County has in store for this area, and how impressive it will be. The master plan is updated regularly, and budgeting is ongoing.

I am not being a homer for the County, but complaining without even knowing what the master plan is makes one look rather foolish.

Go to page 14 of this document to see a map of all of the County's downtown properties.

http://www.co.harris.tx.us/agenda/2007/06-...0CIP-Agenda.pdf

Edited February 27, 2008 by RedScare

[TheNiche]

One proposal for a park or some outdoor type of thing was going to be a block or two from where they release all the prisoners. Great! Sheeesh. I've always wondered who in their right mind would take an evening stroll through this part of town with all the inmates and such.

Apparently I would. I often leave the office in the afternoon and go directly to Sabine Street, park on the street, and jog out to Waugh, then back to Main Street, and then finally back to my car. I've never had a problem and see a cop or security guard along or near the trails downtown about every third or fourth time.

Am I not in my right mind? Is it my wrong mind? Or perhaps my left mind?

I saw a map of Houston homocides a day or two ago (here on haif or on ssp). Perhaps a better, more efficient setup would be to build a processing center closer/in the area where there is the most crime. That would be in the southwest part of town. This would be beneficial in two ways.

1. Less fuel wasted transporting criminals here and there. One could process them then put them in [underground] jails right away.

2. Would let some of the downtown buildings/land currently used for criminal system support be freed up/demolished for an economically better use.

I can see the benefit of setting up satellite pre-processing facilities so that transportation of prisoners occurs with small groups rather than one-by-one with the arresting officer acting as a cheauffeur...but underground jails!? And certainly moving the bulk of the criminal justice complex out that way would be wasteful.

Edited February 27, 2008 by TheNiche

[RedScare]

I can see the benefit of setting up satellite pre-processing facilities so that transportation of prisoners occurs with small groups rather than one-by-one with the arresting officer acting as a cheauffeur...but underground jails!? And certainly moving the bulk of the criminal justice complex out that way would be wasteful.

Both the City and County have satellite temporary detention facilities in place. To varying degrees, both agencies utilize a shuttle system similar to what you have described.

[H-Town Man]

If you don't consider the quarter of a billion dollars spent on all of these facilities in the past 10 or so years, and if you do not consider the costs of transporting prisoners back and forth from jails to courts, and if you do not consider the costs associated with spreading paperwork functions to far flung places, it might make a little sense, but not much.

The criminal justice system is extremely labor intensive, due to security issues. The County designated this area as its criminal justice zone 15 to 20 years ago, when no one wanted the area, and land was cheap. Over the years, they have designed and built new courts, new jails and secure tunnels to meet criminal justice needs. There are over 9,000 inmates in the jails. There are 37 criminal courts. Hundreds of inmates are brought to court EVERY day. Prior to the building of these new facilities, the inmates were literally walked down the street to court. Now, they are in secure tunnels, out of sight and away from the public.

Sometimes the desires of the public conflict with day-to-day needs of running government. Prior to the proposal to beautify the Bayou, no one cared about the wasteland north of downtown. Now that some see its value, some want to move everything. Frankly, that is simply not possible. The courthouse district has IMPROVED this area of downtown, not ruined it. Hundreds of millions of dollars have been spent to upgrade the facilities and beautify the area. Even the jails have been designed to blend in and mask their real function. It is a safe area, as well. Hundreds of cops mill around the area daily. Inmates released from the jails are prone to leave as soon as possible, as they do not have fond memories of their time in this area. While one can imagine all sorts of possible dangers, the reality on the ground is much different than your imagination.

I have spent the last 12 years of my life in and around this area. I have watched the transformation. I have also walked every inch of the district. I have never felt even the slightest danger. I realize that some will feel insecurity no matter the realities on the ground, but the fact is, Harris County has done a great job with this area. And, there is more to come. If all we have to complain about is one 3 block stretch on the north side of the bayou, we'll be in really good shape.

Wow, quite an outpouring there, Red! I don't know of anyone who expects the jails to move now that they're built... my main problem was, why were they built there in the first place? And I guess I am more angry at the fact that no one wanted the land twenty years ago than that the county jumped at an opportunity. The original Buffalo Bayou park plan was done in 1986... at that point, the city should have made moves to ensure that nothing intrusive was built in that area. I'm more annoyed at the city than the county.

As far as this jail, my issue is that it goes into the floodplain and, from what I hear, right up to the water, to the point where they might have to put it partly on stilts. This interferes with a walkway that will be (otherwise) continuous from Shepherd to the Turning Basin, and it also interferes with plans to widen the bayou in this area. Can't the county scale back the jail a little and leave a ribbon of green, the same way they've done with other jails there?

[RedScare]

I don't know of anyone who expects the jails to move now that they're built...

Umm...read post #17.

my main problem was, why were they built there in the first place? And I guess I am more angry at the fact that no one wanted the land twenty years ago than that the county jumped at an opportunity. The original Buffalo Bayou park plan was done in 1986... at that point, the city should have made moves to ensure that nothing intrusive was built in that area. I'm more annoyed at the city than the county.

You're blaming the City for the actions of the County? Do you also blame the Democrats for letting Bush invade Iraq?

As far as this jail, my issue is that it goes into the floodplain and, from what I hear, right up to the water, to the point where they might have to put it partly on stilts. This interferes with a walkway that will be (otherwise) continuous from Shepherd to the Turning Basin, and it also interferes with plans to widen the bayou in this area. Can't the county scale back the jail a little and leave a ribbon of green, the same way they've done with other jails there?

The plans are not final. The Bayou people have made their concerns known. Additionally, the bond election to fund the Booking Facility failed. There is plenty of time and room for changes to be made to accomodate all concerned.

[dbigtex56]

And I guess I am more angry at the fact that no one wanted the land twenty years ago than that the county jumped at an opportunity. The original Buffalo Bayou park plan was done in 1986... at that point, the city should have made moves to ensure that nothing intrusive was built in that area. I'm more annoyed at the city than the county.

If I'm not mistaken, Mayor Bob Lanier wanted to tear out Market Square and build a jail there. It could have been worse.

[TheNiche]

As far as this jail, my issue is that it goes into the floodplain and, from what I hear, right up to the water, to the point where they might have to put it partly on stilts. This interferes with a walkway that will be (otherwise) continuous from Shepherd to the Turning Basin, and it also interferes with plans to widen the bayou in this area. Can't the county scale back the jail a little and leave a ribbon of green, the same way they've done with other jails there?

I understand the gist of what you're getting at, but as a technical correction, the viability of a walkway between Shepherd and the Turning Basin is effectively nil unless they're planning to develop at least two pedestrian bridges, one near Lockwood to transfer people over to the north side of the bayou so as to avoid the heavy industry at Turkey Bend, the other to cross back over just before Wayside so as to avoid the massive Northside Wastewater Treatment Plant. These pedestrian bridges would have to be sufficiently high to allow for barge traffic and would be excessively expensive.

[Zippy]

... Additionally, the bond election to fund the Booking Facility failed. There is plenty of time and room for changes to be made to accomodate all concerned.

The joint processing center is still on course for the end of Baker St.. Funding will just come from elsewhere, other than bonds..

But I'm guessing the scope will change some..