Future Development Eyed For Lower Fifth Ward

[lockmat]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nb/hei...ws/5515296.html

City officials and community leaders working to develop the Lower Fifth Ward as a model community for the nation may receive some guidance from the Ford Foundation.

...and other city leaders, including Mayor Bill White, are expecting to hear soon from Ford Foundation consultants who recently visited the Lower Fifth Ward to better assess how the area can

[Guest danax]

"In the letter, Brown and Johnson wrote, "The Lower Fifth Ward can emerge as a model Houston neighborhood that demonstrates the city's commitment to create a new generation of mixed-income, mixed-use neighborhoods serving as a national example of the reorganization of the American city."

The 21st century version of the housing project; government sponsored planting of minorities against the will of the free market with an urban touch that will wear off in time. The American city is already reorganizing, in a natural fashion and it will find it's balance point without assistance, like all natural systems eventually do.

"How do we thwart gentrification and continue to give the area the housing, amenities and opportunities we need?" said Johnson, former president of the Fifth Ward Super Neighborhood Council.

Oh, ok. Now we see what this is really all about. And he's already looking for a handout expecting someone to "give" the area everything.

[musicman]

see lockmat, you just thought you wanted to move there.

[lockmat]

see lockmat, you just thought you wanted to move there.

and why don't i now?

[musicman]

and why don't i now?

maybe you can star in the next version of good times set in the lower fifth

[lockmat]

maybe you can star in the next version of good times set in the lower fifth

I'm down!

[musicman]

I'm down!

tru dat. i think i remember a few episodes where he was in cornrolls so you're a shoe in for the new JJ.

[lockmat]

tru dat. i think i remember a few episodes where he was in cornrolls so you're a shoe in for the new JJ.

sweet, now i just need get a tan. spray on, i guess?

[musicman]

sweet, now i just need get a tan. spray on, i guess?

nah whites can be poor too. break through those black stereotypes.

[Subdude]

*ahem* Is "Lower Fifth Ward" an "official" neighborhood name? I've never heard it used before, but the article tossed it out like it was fairly common.

[TheNiche]

*ahem* Is "Lower Fifth Ward" an "official" neighborhood name? I've never heard it used before, but the article tossed it out like it was fairly common.

I can understand the reasoning in calling it that. Technically, this area is the southernmost part of the 5th Ward. But that doesn't justify the capitalization, unless we're coining new names. ...and if we are, the name shouldn't have the word "Ward" in it, much less connected to the number "5".

EDIT: Then again, if the name were anything appropriate and still included any neighborhoods at all, it'd get the local politicians in a big huff about the retention of poor black culture and such. So that's probably your explanation.

[hbcu]

bloody nickle...

like I said earlier....3rd ward residents were easy to run off as alot never owned combined with the area is semi-affluent...

5th ward folks have more ties to the area and take more pride in their hood....they do better building affordable housing and making it better for families..

[TheNiche]

bloody nickle...

like I said earlier....3rd ward residents were easy to run off as alot never owned combined with the area is semi-affluent...

5th ward folks have more ties to the area and take more pride in their hood....they do better building affordable housing and making it better for families..

Its the other way around. 3rd Ward residents have a higher home ownership rate and have more staying-power because the area is semi-affluent.

And I'd challenge you to support the assertion that 5th Ward folks do a better job building affordable housing (or much of any housing at all) or making a better family environment.

And do bear in mind that most of the land area within these boundaries is industrial, not residential. The bulk of the 5th Ward as it is typically conceived of is not included in the study area.

[lockmat]

The only reason I can see why people would want to build there is b/c the land is cheaper there than it is even in the east end. I have no facts to back that up, but it's a guess. Is it a bad assumption?

[TheNiche]

The only reason I can see why people would want to build there is b/c the land is cheaper there than it is even in the east end. I have no facts to back that up, but it's a guess. Is it a bad assumption?

The East End has neighborhoods like Magnolia Park and Manchester that are pretty damn inexpensive, but most of 5th Ward tends to be even less expensive. The exception is that area of the 5th Ward about south of I-10 and west of Hirsch...but even then, part of that area is within the Greater East End Management District's jurisdiction.

If the reasoning always panned out that builders would be drawn to the lowest-possible-cost areas, people would be building in Kashmere and the North Forest ISD. They aren't. The 5th Ward may have its day, but it'll be a very long time in coming.

[hbcu]

throw out the old money in 3rd ward..i'm talking about the individuals who were pushed out in 3rd ward and 4th ward..they never owned and see what happened

5th ward has more home ownership as homes have been passed down for years and alot of those owners still rent homes out there as opposed to 3rd ward where the older sections of wooden homes have evaporated overnight..outside of Cuney Homes, there aren't much large scale developments

5th ward has Kelly Courts, Coke Street Apartments, etc. and their not going away anytime soon...

[TheNiche]

throw out the old money in 3rd ward.

Well shoot, if you insist on looking at the worst part of a bad area and comparing that to the entirety of a worse area, then sure, you can draw any number of conclusions.

[lockmat]

The East End has neighborhoods like Magnolia Park and Manchester that are pretty damn inexpensive, but most of 5th Ward tends to be even less expensive. The exception is that area of the 5th Ward about south of I-10 and west of Hirsch...but even then, part of that area is within the Greater East End Management District's jurisdiction.

If the reasoning always panned out that builders would be drawn to the lowest-possible-cost areas, people would be building in Kashmere and the North Forest ISD. They aren't. The 5th Ward may have its day, but it'll be a very long time in coming.

Yeah, that's kind of what I'm saying. I saw some townhomes there. Cheaper landprices was the only reason I could think of as to why they built them. If any gentrification will take place there, if ever, it'll be after the east end does, and who knows how long that'll take. It's amazing how just across the freeway (45) it can be a completely different place.

[RedScare]

tru dat. i think i remember a few episodes where he was in cornrolls so you're a shoe in for the new JJ.

Cornrolls?

[musicman]

Cornrolls?

dats da ghetto n me.

[RedScare]

dats da ghetto n me.

Hardly.

Try "cornrows" next time. Might gain you a tad more street cred.

[lockmat]

Hardly.

Try "cornrows" next time.

I forgive him. It's an often made mistake.

Might gain you a tad more street cred.

Word

[musicman]

Try "cornrows" next time. Might gain you a tad more street cred.

hit the streets and you hear both now. kinda like this

[VicMan]

nah whites can be poor too. break through those black stereotypes.

Also Whites can be dysfunctional. A Jacinto City crazed dysfunctional "family" murdered Buddy Musso, a mentally retarded man from New Jersey: http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murd...asso/index.html - The ringleader, Sue Basso, got the death sentence while her cronies got life sentences and other lengthy sentences.

Most of the poor Whites around here tend to be in rural periphery of the Houston area.

Anyhow, Jarvis Johnson is a city councilman so of course we can e-mail him and write letters. If he wants to build housing for low income families he should do so with the expectation that gentrification cannot be thwarted. The Houston way is to gentrify. It is better to build such housing so that the low income families can blend into a gentrified area.

[hbcu]

my dad works in Jacinto City....those whites took off years ago and its mostly mexican....the area was a blue collar neighborhood at one time

[VicMan]

my dad works in Jacinto City....those whites took off years ago and its mostly mexican....the area was a blue collar neighborhood at one time

Even in the late 1980s the elementary schools were mostly Hispanic.

* Jacinto City ES: http://www.schooldigger.com/go/TX/schools/...986/school.aspx

* Whittier ES: http://www.schooldigger.com/go/TX/schools/...614/school.aspx

[hbcu]

bottom line...whites and 5th ward won't mix....all we're doing is creating a stupid cycle where whites, blacks and hispanics switch spots in Houston for the next 50 years,,,

whites get in 5th ward, blacks forced to move further to the suburbs, whites there leave and move into the country, then hispanics come and blacks follow the whites...whites then realize they live eons away from the city or panic due to one incicent, they come back closer in and jack land values up which starts the cycle all over again...

when your now in places like New Caney, Katy, etc...we've gone too far

[TheNiche]

bottom line...whites and 5th ward won't mix....all we're doing is creating a stupid cycle where whites, blacks and hispanics switch spots in Houston for the next 50 years,,,

whites get in 5th ward, blacks forced to move further to the suburbs, whites there leave and move into the country, then hispanics come and blacks follow the whites...whites then realize they live eons away from the city or panic due to one incicent, they come back closer in and jack land values up which starts the cycle all over again...

when your now in places like New Caney, Katy, etc...we've gone too far

It is a cycle, and not one dominated so much by race, but by affluence and secondarily by ethnicity. A myriad of factors relating to the physical condition of neighborhoods, the proximity to employment, and neighborhood-level demographic trends determine what is and is not transitioning at any point in time.

And I say that ethnicity matters more than race because if you look at Hispanics, considered one race, they've broken out into distinct Mexican and Central American parts of town and have a sufficient critical mass in those areas to create communities that perpetuate their ethnicity. Inner city blacks have a kind of ethnicity that was already shifting, but with market forces scattering them to the suburbs, typically into integrated neighborhoods, not supported by retailers and community infrastructure that specifically caters to people from their background, I think that a lot of their ethnic identity is going to be diluted so that by the time we have another cycle, we're thinking in a completely different set of terms.

Btw, the affluent residents of suburbs aren't panicing about distance. It is this group that continues to justify construction of expensive homes in places on the far periphery of our metropolitan area, like you stated. But affluent folks aren't of one mind; they are segmented, with widely varied preferences.