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Midtown Construction At Bagby & Mcgowen


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Here are some pics I found on their facebook page...

I had some time so I ran over there and took some

Is this the correct thread for the farb apartments? This area is really becoming a "place"

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Definitions of what constitutes a "midrise" are hazy. You're correct that Farb is planning a four-story wrap, but in the spectrum of descriptors (low-rise, midrise, highrise, skyscraper), a lot of people--including professionals--consider this to also be a midrise.

since when did people in our profession start calling 4-story stick product a midrise?

geeze, next thing you know people are going to start over-using the term "luxury living", even for C product.

ooops, too late, they already do...

:mellow:

Billboard pic attached...sorry for the low res. They've since addeded a covered chain link fence are the property. Given the placement of the billboard, I would imagine a rendering/advertisement for the complex. Looking forward to the ground breaking.

thanks for the pic. i drove by there on tuesday evening and nothing was there, so that must have gone up afterwards.

Edited by houston-development
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since when did people in our profession start calling 4-story stick product a midrise?

Hell, HAR classifies any condo project that is four stories or higher as highrise. Planners, architects, consultants, politicians, and media also throw around 'midrise' liberally. And as you pointed out, marketing materials just lie outright about various things.

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  • 4 months later...
  • 1 month later...

While talking it out with a few people, it seems that apartment building might be increasing since getting into a home is probably getting a bit harder and probably will remain so for at least a year or so.

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  • 5 months later...

Recent signage on McGowen @ Bagby seems to suggest that Farb is ditching the "Citiplace" idea and selling the properties (3) around this intersection. How about a nice big park!!!??? Unfortnately, the property is too valuable and that idea will surely not go through. I imagine, in the end, we will see townhomes there.

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Recent signage on McGowen @ Bagby seems to suggest that Farb is ditching the "Citiplace" idea and selling the properties (3) around this intersection. How about a nice big park!!!??? Unfortnately, the property is too valuable and that idea will surely not go through. I imagine, in the end, we will see townhomes there.

Don't bother imagining anything; nobody knows what'll happen there. Very few developers can get financing in this environment, investors are skittish to say the least, and this site isn't even one of the better ones for which development has been put on hold or cancelled. It'll probably be at least another couple of years before things get settled and we're able to start seriously speculating again, and even then there's no guarantee what kind of residential product would be ideal.

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Recent signage on McGowen @ Bagby seems to suggest that Farb is ditching the "Citiplace" idea and selling the properties (3) around this intersection. How about a nice big park!!!??? Unfortnately, the property is too valuable and that idea will surely not go through. I imagine, in the end, we will see townhomes there.

1) that sign has been up almost as long as he's owned it

2) he's discussing options with different lenders and the land is NOT under contract. if someone told you that, they are either (a) a liar, (b ) misinformed, or (c ) an attention whore

3) there's a perfectly good park down the street

4) no one will pay his price and build townhomes, its not economically feasible

5) and yeah, what niche said ^

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4) no one will pay his price and build townhomes, its not economically feasible

Maybe this is a question deserving its own thread, but...what if "his" price were to change? How likely is that?

How can we possibly be in the midst of a financial crisis, with the value of all other assets and commodities (except Treasuries) plummeting, and real estate in Houston, TX doesn't take a mark-to-market hit? Surely the structural illiquidity of real estate and the illiquidity of capital markets both will adversely impact transaction-driven real estate companies as owners of property continue to stick it out, refusing to take a hit, but it just seems as though at some point transaction activity will necessarily return to an equilibrium and not before sellers' expectations are adjusted downward. And if/when that occurs, perhaps townhomes do become feasible on a site like this.

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Maybe this is a question deserving its own thread, but...what if "his" price were to change? How likely is that?

How can we possibly be in the midst of a financial crisis, with the value of all other assets and commodities (except Treasuries) plummeting, and real estate in Houston, TX doesn't take a mark-to-market hit? Surely the structural illiquidity of real estate and the illiquidity of capital markets both will adversely impact transaction-driven real estate companies as owners of property continue to stick it out, refusing to take a hit, but it just seems as though at some point transaction activity will necessarily return to an equilibrium and not before sellers' expectations are adjusted downward. And if/when that occurs, perhaps townhomes do become feasible on a site like this.

this is most definitely the case... price reductions are few and far between in houston right now, but as this economy continues to decline and the overall lack of liquidity in the capital markets continue to squeeze, many of those companies who think they can "wait it out" will find themselves desperate to sell in the next 6-12 months.

houston is lagging the rest of the country, and the distressed assets haven't come to market.... yet

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this is most definitely the case... price reductions are few and far between in houston right now, but as this economy continues to decline and the overall lack of liquidity in the capital markets continue to squeeze, many of those companies who think they can "wait it out" will find themselves desperate to sell in the next 6-12 months.

houston is lagging the rest of the country, and the distressed assets haven't come to market.... yet

I'm not sure about this. Despite a crumby economy... Houston is not like the rest of the country. If/when home prices do fall, price declines won't be anything like that in other parts of the country. Also, as soon as oil markets even think the economy might recover... oil will be going back up very quickly.

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im sorry, i was mistaken.

transwestern put up a marketing sign. transwestern told farb they had a buyer who could and would purchase the property. its on a non-exclusive basis and farb isnt paying a penny for marketing. if it was me, on either side, i wouldnt do it but thats another story.

imo - there is no buyer; they are only trying to get exposure and its a total waste of resources.

any buyer will be unable to justify his price to a potential lender.

but again, crazier things have happened...

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  • 6 months later...

I just noticed today that they are digging large, deep holes at the vacant lot, corner of McGowen @ Bagby. They also installed a box for electricity at the vacant lot across the street at McGowen @ Baldwin. Anyone know what's up? These are the lots that belong to Farb Properties from their failed venture to put up a midrise luxury apartment building. Major action still brewing over there even after 6:30pm tonight....

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I just noticed today that they are digging large, deep holes at the vacant lot, corner of McGowen @ Bagby. They also installed a box for electricity at the vacant lot across the street at McGowen @ Baldwin. Anyone know what's up? These are the lots that belong to Farb Properties from their failed venture to put up a midrise luxury apartment building. Major action still brewing over there even after 6:30pm tonight....

I wish I knew. We live very close to this block, and at 7:30am this morning (Saturday, Oct 3) the heavy trucks were out there "beep" "beep" "beeping" when backing up. 7:30am seems a little early for a Saturday morning. You think they're getting OT? This entire block is being dug up, and there is a cell tower smack dab in the middle of it.

I can't find any info on this contruction anywhere.

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I wish I knew. We live very close to this block, and at 7:30am this morning (Saturday, Oct 3) the heavy trucks were out there "beep" "beep" "beeping" when backing up. 7:30am seems a little early for a Saturday morning. You think they're getting OT? This entire block is being dug up, and there is a cell tower smack dab in the middle of it.

I can't find any info on this contruction anywhere.

>>>All I see is the construction company's sign on Bagby....they are still going....I heard them out there at 7am this morning! There is a mountain of dirt VERY HIGH out there right now....they seem to be wanting to get whatever it is done ASAP! I live close too and heard the beeping as well....I'll post as soon as I find out something.

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Looks like Forbes has sold their property that spans from Bagby to Dennis along McGowen. I'm not sure if there is already a thread on this...

I saw a bunch of contruction equipment their today and the workers were clearing the area... I had to stop and ask and they said they were indeed building new apartments.

Still haven't found any renderings or anything so please add some if you find it.

Good news in a troubled economy and even more residential for Midtown.

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Is it this thing finally coming alive? Chron Article

The sign around the property makes it look like Farb still owns the land.

BTW, what's with the huge pile of dirt on that land? It looks like they are going to build it on a mountain.

EDIT: I just found this thread on HAR about CitiPlace... Thread

Edited by brian0123
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I believe this is the rendering...

http://www.davisbros...apartments.html

With more info here...

http://www.davisbros...ents_specs.html

According to the picture, the sidewalks look like the small standard size. I was really hoping they would make them wide like at Post. If Midtown is supposed to be a walkable city area, why don't they give us a little more room? It's so hard to walk around Metro Midtown because of this. Get rid of some of the plants, bushes, and grass and give us room.

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If true, then the seller would be Farb, not Forbes.

My bad I meant to say Farb... I guess they are just developing the property finally and didn't sell it... at any rate this is excellent, more pedestrians in midtown.

Edited by DrLan34
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Just called Davis Bros... they are HUD-funded apartments. No retail or amenities planned :(

Target date for completion is 15 months, so we're looking at Feb. 2011.

"HUD-funded"? That doesn't mean lower-income, does it? The links I've seen suggest it will be "high-end."

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"HUD-funded"? That doesn't mean lower-income, does it? The links I've seen suggest it will be "high-end."

Yep, HUD is lower income. I guess they scraped their plans for high-end stuff and went the HUD route. I guess the service related businesses within Midtown will have a new workforce of people that they can hire from.

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Yep, HUD is lower income. I guess they scraped their plans for high-end stuff and went the HUD route. I guess the service related businesses within Midtown will have a new workforce of people that they can hire from.

Uh-oh...unsure.gif

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Yep, HUD is lower income. I guess they scraped their plans for high-end stuff and went the HUD route. I guess the service related businesses within Midtown will have a new workforce of people that they can hire from.

no, thats not the case at all.

the financing is via a hud 221d4 loan, which has ZERO restrictions. full market rents, full amenities, full everything. no one on the outside would know the difference...

farb has rate locked and im 99% sure he moves forward.

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no, thats not the case at all.

the financing is via a hud 221d4 loan, which has ZERO restrictions. full market rents, full amenities, full everything. no one on the outside would know the difference...

farb has rate locked and im 99% sure he moves forward.

Well that makes sense then. I was told on the phone that they were luxury apartments... so that wasn't an overstatement I guess.

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no, thats not the case at all.

the financing is via a hud 221d4 loan, which has ZERO restrictions. full market rents, full amenities, full everything. no one on the outside would know the difference...

farb has rate locked and im 99% sure he moves forward.

So what's the catch? Why wouldn't other developers currently on hold pursue the same kind of solution?

Breaking ground on this now seems like terrible timing, but what do I know? There are already so many rental options in midtown, and Camden Travis will obviously open somewhat soon

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So what's the catch? Why wouldn't other developers currently on hold pursue the same kind of solution?

Breaking ground on this now seems like terrible timing, but what do I know? There are already so many rental options in midtown, and Camden Travis will obviously open somewhat soon

there are a couple of catches (red tape, escrow, budgets, etc) but im headed out to lunch. ill gladly elaborate on my thoughts later and others (ie niche) may chime in as well.

there are some details that i cannot disclose but ill try my best to be as open as possible...

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So what's the catch? Why wouldn't other developers currently on hold pursue the same kind of solution?

Breaking ground on this now seems like terrible timing, but what do I know? There are already so many rental options in midtown, and Camden Travis will obviously open somewhat soon

Camden Travis opens Monday, for the record.

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A lot of multifamily developers grudgingly (for reasons that houston-development touched on) started looking into mortgage insurance from HUD when things got tight in the private capital markets. The program has a finite budget, however, so there are only so many of these deals that can get done in any given fiscal year.

As a point of reference: In fiscal year 2008, HUD insured mortgages for 88 projects with 13,784 units, totaling $1 billion. Year-to-date, they've endorsed 82 projects with 11,301 units, totalling $784 million.

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so long story short, 221d4 loans are pretty much the only game in town. in previous years 9 out of 10 developers wouldnt touch the loan with their putz but with the credit markets frozen, there really are no other alternatives. developers that swore off d4 loans are now seriously considering them; though they will probably pass.

on the plus side: no personal recourse, 40 year am, zero rent restrictions, and thats about it

on the negative side: mip (which is comparable to the additional interest on a sub-prime loan), high reserves ($200 - $300 more / door), fighting over reimbursement of cap ex expenses, and a long and painful process to get the development loan closed.

as for my own personal opinion for this development... his all in costs are relatively low, a carp load of units are coming on-line, and we have lost over 100k jobs. if i was in his shoes, i would sit on the dirt for a couple more years. its not a "prime" midtown location but in the next few/couple years, assuming mix and the super block eventually build out, it could become "prime" real estate. today, not so much.

but thats just me.

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midtown apartments are currently at a high occupancy rate (e.g., Post is near 100%). obviously with Camden coming online, there will be excess capacity for awhile, but in 15 months who knows

Even Post Midtown is now offering concessions. They didn't used to have to do that. I'm betting that by this time next year, typical concessions in Midtown will be pushing past two months.

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no, thats not the case at all.

the financing is via a hud 221d4 loan, which has ZERO restrictions. full market rents, full amenities, full everything. no one on the outside would know the difference...

farb has rate locked and im 99% sure he moves forward.

Sorry about that. I misread the post and for some reason thought it said HUD housing.:wacko: Never the less, this development will be great for the area. The more people in Midtown... the better.

Edited by brian0123
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Drove by over the weekend and they have already started clearing the lot across the street. My guess is that these will end up being as the Chron article states... having a parking garage across the street with a skywalk over Bagby to the complex itself.

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  • 2 months later...

I live across the street from the new Farb development. Wow! It's going up fast. Very impressive. I walked into the on-site office and saw the design rendering for interior and exterior. I was told that the theme will be," luxury boutique hotel." I hate to say it, but pretty amazing. Not only is this going to be a top-knotch project, but also they're including several green elements into the construction. I heard that Austin based Big Red Sun( they did San Jose Hotel in Austin)is working on their saltwater pool/landscaping concept. Kudos! Can't wait to see how it turns out. Does anyone of a completion date?

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  • 3 weeks later...

I live across the street from the new Farb development. Wow! It's going up fast. Very impressive. I walked into the on-site office and saw the design rendering for interior and exterior. I was told that the theme will be," luxury boutique hotel." I hate to say it, but pretty amazing. Not only is this going to be a top-knotch project, but also they're including several green elements into the construction. I heard that Austin based Big Red Sun( they did San Jose Hotel in Austin)is working on their saltwater pool/landscaping concept. Kudos! Can't wait to see how it turns out. Does anyone of a completion date?

It seems like the parking garage will be on that middle lot under the lofts or in the center instead of across the street from bagby...

Also, does anyone know how far down mcgowan (towards this new development) that the sidewalk expansion project will go? It would definitely be helpful to have those wider sidewalks along next to this new apartment complex

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