Jump to content

Klein ISD Bond Plan 2008


Chris

Recommended Posts

That does not make it right and we are taking action to reach out to the Klein High folks. They have been neglected, their school is in disrepair and something needs to be done. Rebuilding on that location does not solve their problems though as a major gas pipeline running directly under the property prevents them from putting all the students under one roof and the busy intersection causes security and safety concerns. What is best for All of Klein is to give them a new school, somewhere else and build another high school at the same time.

And abandon all of the recently built, perfectly good buildings that are there? Keep dreaming.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rich, your plan is not going to work. KHS will never leave that property, it needs to be upgraded on the land it is sitting on. And if you did follow your plan you still end up with 5 high schools and the future need for a 6th, but no land to put it on. Despite many of the Districts shortcomings Klein has planned ahead much better than you think.

And yes I still think the actions of your group specifically the people from Gleannloch are arrogant, and express an elitist attitude. I live in Gleannloch and I, and many of my neighbors are embarrassed by your groups approach. I have no interest in visiting your website or supporting your group in any way.

Like I said before I am not happy with this bond, but your group is making my rethink on how to vote.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My name is Rich Talaber and I am a member of Klein for All. I would like to apologize for the message coming across as you have indicated. Read my other entry and you will see that we have thoroughly researched the entire district. We only used the North side because Spring Cypress Rd (not 1960) is a known zoning boundary. What we have encouraged the district to do is to consider high growth areas differently from underutilized ones. That would include your area. Your schools are represented on our website and your over crowding is taken into consideration in all calculations. That is different from KISD who just looks at the district as one number and feels confident that they have the right capacity.

Please visit www.kleinforall.com and look at the data. Your schools are in there and we are fighting to get more capacity for you as well. The question of Klein High is a major issue simply because it takes money away from solving capacity issues and actually delays the release of needed capacity by two years. We believe that something needs to be done about Klein High, we are questioning the timing and the plan. Our recommendations are to either fix it and wait a few years until we have caught up with capacity or build 2 high schools at the same time, releasing new capacity in 2011, close down the current Klein High and move that student body and zone to that new building. Either option would be better for the district as a whole than the current plan. I say district as a whole because there are between 15,000 and 20,000 kids in over crowding conditions right now. If major portions of the bond allocation are directed to Klein High rebuild and Klein Annex rebuild in the early years, that leaves little money to build out new elementary and intermediate schools anywhere in the district. This big ticket item is why the building of elementary schools and intermediates was pushed back a year or more in the bond proposal.

I understand that you are well-intentioned ... but even if you are not personally biased against the South end of the district .. plenty of your neighbors are.

Just a few comments for you:

--My understanding is that once High School No. 5 is opened to the group it will eventually serve. i.e. after Klein High kids are back at the rebuilt Klein High --there will be rezoning and some of the overcrowding in the North will be relieved.

--I understand they are adding a wing at Klein Collins into the Bond package to relieve overcrowding there.

--I did not have a chance to attend any of the Steering Committe meetings (they were open to the public) ... but that is the point of having a steering committee -- to get input from the parents/administrators/community to gather "real-world" data. I know that you will say there were not enough voices from your area and maybe it was stacked more to the South -- but it's probably because of the fuss they got from the South the last time around. (see a pattern here?)

--Your group will be listened to but would be surprised if you had an impact on whether the Board moves forward with the Bond issue as is .. and of course, you can fight it once it goes to a vote... but the people who ultimately vote in these elections (over 60 crowd) typically do not vote these things down.

Just for reference -- please check out these articles from the Chronicle in 04.

http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive....id=2004_3831802

http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive....id=2004_3817771

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I live in Gleannloch and I, and many of my neighbors are embarrassed by your groups approach. I have no interest in visiting your website or supporting your group in any way.

Wow, this is refreshing to hear... THANK YOU:) BTW: The district has a group of "Key Communicators" that meet monthly that represent EVERY school in the district, mostly made up of PTO people, ala white women (including myself). The details of the Bond were no "big secret" ... the PASA study; tearing down Klein High and other details were shared with this group with many of us questioning this situation. We were also concerned by some of the "zoning" recommendations in the PASA study and were able to question Dr. Cain about it. There was also information posted about the Bond committee on the Klein web site and times and dates of their (public) meetings for months. Basically, it's a little late to start screaming .. the train has left the station.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does that mean that it will not be a redesign of Klein Collins? KCHS was designed by SHW.

Yeah, It probably won't be just like KCHS. It will most likely be nicer and more of a detailed design. Anyone who has seen any of PBK's work know that they build very nice schools. Cy-Fair ISD has used them for all of their latest High Schools.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You seem to have "knowledge" of some things that I don't. I have no knowledge of any member of this group threatening anyone. I personally sent Dr. Cain and the entire board a copy of the ad to get their feedback prior to it being published. I wanted to ensure that they had no issues with any of the facts stated. I gave them over a weeks notice and there was no feedback. It was a courtesy and fair play, there was no threat anywhere. How is one group of people going to threaten the school board. I made it a point to talk to Judy Rimato at the last board meeting to make sure that she and the administration knew that although we disagreed with them, we would not pursue any legal action like Waller and Houston ISD. Again, I would call that fair play.

I have no idea what you are embarassed about. We have raised nothing but factual issues. We did not wait until the train left the station, as one poster put it. We have been raising this issue for some time. Unfortunately, you and the other poster keep focusing on the high school as being the primary issue. The issue is over crowding. There is much more overcrowding in the elementary and intermediates than in the High Schools. This project diverts funds from building the schools we need in the high growth areas of the district. Additionally, it delays the relief of overcrowding in other high schools.

You say that the district will not abandon that property. Again, you seem to be very close to the board, and perhaps that is why you are so defensive of them. Why wont they abandon it? If it makes monetary sense and is the only logical option....why not? What is the reason. Show me the dollars and sense behind the reason. I have given you a ton of facts, you give me speculation. Put up or shut up. Explain why it is in the best interest of all of Klein to be tied to that property. Bring with you facts and figures please. I have been conversing with parents of Klein High Students and they are OK with going to a new location. I am sure that many would not be Ok with it, but you never know until you ask. And then, it is just their opinion and not necessarily what is in the best interest of the district...is it?

Steering Committee? You and Forest need to do some research. The Steering Committee was made up of almost 60% School Adminstration. Pretty easy to get your way, when you stack the deck. If you intend on arguing that one, you better have a list of names and addresses to back it up. I have one and it is simple math sir.

You can go on living in your dream world. Just sit there quietly and let the world pass you by. Dont speak up , dont stand for anything, just visit a little blog and spew some garbage about a group of people who are trying to make a difference. Right, we are petty? At least we are making an effort sir. Go ahead and change your vote because you disagree with our approach....that too would be brilliant.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, you are correct. 5 years from now, there will be relief of overcrowding at the High School level only. The elementary Schools and intermediates will have the exact same conditions because we are not building enough schools. In fact, if the economy does not crash, as many predict it will not, the overcrowding will be much worse.

Yes, the are adding a wing in both Klein Oak and Klein Collings to relieve some of the overcrowding. This is very interesting because the Klein High folks did not want to rebuild in place because they did not want their kids to be in a construction zone. I guess it is OK for half of the district High School Students to be in one though.

Read my previous post about the steering committee. Very, very few of the members who attended the meetings were parent with kids in school. over 55% of the members on the committe work for Dr. Cain. That is not a steering committee. That merely enables the administration to claim that they incluced parents in the decision making process. had you attended any of the meetings, you would have seen many objections to the KHS rebuild from day one and you would have seen the rest of the room intimidate and shoot down the person raising the objection. The course was set on this one before a "steering committe" was ever formed. There was no steering to be done. So, no, I dont think it was stacked to the South. It was stacked to the administration. As far as invitations, it was stacked to Klein High. You can see the invitee list on the Klein ISD website. Klein High had 9 parents invited while Klein Oak had 3 and Klein Collins had the 2 or 3. Klein forest had 7 invited I think, you can check for yourself on that one. We have made both the invitee list and the actual attendance list available on our site. I know that ENGcons would rather leave his head in the sand, but perhaps you are open to learning the facts.

Our group is being listened to. The Klein Collins addition was added in response to not only our groups complaints, but complaints from folks in many communities. At the last board meeting Dr. Cain listed building Klein High on a new location as a suggested alternative. will he make that recommendation? Probably not, but like I said to ENGcons, you can sit back and watch life pass you by or you can stand up for something. You know what they say about arm chair quarterbacks...right?

Low voter turn out is a reality and that is one of the exchanges I had with Dr. Cain. I told him that the bond would most likely pass due to voter apathy. That does not mean that this is the right proposal, however. And you can defeat this Bond, just like Spring did. it does not take much voter turn out to defeat a bond like this either. We can force them to go back to the drawing board. we are already in overcrowded conditions and they are only planning on opening one elementary school in 2009 anyway, so we have time. Lets see who uses "scare" tactics now and says that voting down the bond puts our children at risk. It would delay the bond by about 6 months and have very little impact. this is a debt services bond issue, not management and operations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is no secret that on jan 15th, the "steering comittee" had an appropriate number of schools proposed to be built because they agreed with the PASA Most Likely Recommendation. It is also no secret that the total for all the things the steering committee wanted to do was over $830M. It is no secret that the survey results the board and steering committee received indicated that any proposal over $500M was going to be a tough sell. What is a secret is why the steering committee, when forced to make cuts in the bond proposal, chose to cut the building of schools on January 29th? What mystical event occurred between Jan 15th and Jan 29th, that made them now believe that the Most Likely Growth scenario would not happen? It is very convenient, to say the least, that this information...which has yet to be shared with anyone else...allowed them to adjust growth numbers down enough for them to leave the KHS rebuild in the bond proposal. Take a look at the conditions that PASA lists for a low growth scenario to occur. I dont recall any major terrorist attacks that occurred in the US between jan 15th and Jan 29th...do you?

The housing market tanked long before those two weeks and was already part of the PASA considerations. What needs to happen before people realize that rebuilding KHS on that spot is a pet project? I have spoken to many Klein High parents now and agree that the conditions there are bad. But, we have a choice to rebuild in place and never solve all the issues or rebuild somewhere else and solve every last one of them while not delaying relief of overcrowding. As I have said before, It will still not be under one roof, it will still have a major gas pipeline running underneath it and it will still be on a busy intersection. I have yet to hear a logical argument, which includes financial analysis , that justifies this. It is absolutely absurd. But, let me be clear again. I do think we need a new Klein High School. Putting it in that location is a painfully ignorant and arrogant mistake. I challenge anyone to show the thought process/analysis that went into making this decision. So far, the best I have heard at any board meeting was this from Dr. Cain. "We just talked about it and felt it was time." There has been no explaination for not rebuilding somewhere else. I need more than that, dont you?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Putting it in that location is a painfully ignorant and arrogant mistake. I challenge anyone to show the thought process/analysis that went into making this decision. So far, the best I have heard at any board meeting was this from Dr. Cain. "We just talked about it and felt it was time." There has been no explaination for not rebuilding somewhere else. I need more than that, dont you?

Here's a fun idea -- and this is PURE SPECULATION: one possible reason they would never relocate Klein High because if it weren't located where it was -- then maybe more students who are now zoned to Kleb and Klein would -- God forbid -- be zoned to Wunderlich and Klein Forest. We get enough of a fuss out of the families in Brandonwood and Huntwick who have been begging unsuccessfully to get out of the Wunderlich/KF zone for years. Were you aware of the huge fuss a couple years ago when Klein Intermediate failed to make AYP and children from KI were allowed at Kleb and Strack? And people's heads nearly popped off at the idea of their kids having to go to school with kids from, dare I say, a more diverse background.

Anyway, as someone who is a big fan of KF -- I get a big laugh out of this idea. Now, this will freak you out: Did you know that some members of the 04 steering committee were told that Klein Intermediate kids would eventually wind up being bused up 249 to the new High School No. 5.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LOL. I have not visited Klein Forest, but I am sure it is a fine school. I have already had one daughter go to Klein Oak and she did great. I was pleased with her education. I really dont care if my other kids go to HS5, the one on 2920, or Klein Oak. I just want them to have a quality education. A lot of what I am fighting for doesnt really affect my kids right now at all. Hassler is real close to capacity, that is better than the 40% over they were before Frank opened. Frank is at capacity as well. These are going to go over capacity next year, Frank more than Hassler. I dont have kids at Frank. Intermediate do affect my kids as those are very over crowded already and I have one that will be going to Krimmel next year.

I just dont like the way the committe meetings are run. I think people should disagree and the disagreements should be talked out. I dont think that the President should shut down any argument that is not aligned with his agenda. I don't think steering committees should be stacked with Administration or one particular area or one particular anything. I suggested to Dr. Cain that a true steering committe should be a majority of parents and that the parents should be distributed in a way that mirrors student enrollment through the district. The administrators are going to be there to present their views, as will the people who were hired to conduct population surveys, as will the folks who did facility assessements, etc. Do they think that parents are not qualifed? Too stupid?

I dont like the decision to ignore very quantitative analysis in favor of some things that have no justification. No scientific justification, no financial justification, no anything. As far a diversity, the steering committee was a sea of white.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What all of you are missing is that the Klein ISD Board of Trustees will vote for what is best for ALL OF OUR CHILDREN. I know what the Klein For All people really mean by "all" ... as in "all of the children North of 1960." Where was your outrage four years ago during the 04 Bond Election when people in Greenwood Forest were fighting to get better solutions in the South end of the district? Inevitably, somone is not going to get what they want -- guess, what -- It's your turn to NOT GET WHAT YOU WANT...that's what you call Divine Justice. Yes, I wish it wasn't necessary to rebuild Klein High... I wish we could all travel back in time and do a better job maintaining that facility .. but it is what it is.. right now and it really sounds like it's a lawsuit waiting to happen if you don't get the students out of there. But there I go again, talking about "children...." I know that's a lame idea when we're talking about a Bond issue .. because we're all consumed about getting ours.

The 2004 bond was voted down resoundly by the residents south of 1960, I had put a link on here for the survey that Klein did following the 2004 bond, that link no longer works apparently. As a Greenwood Forest homeowner I have talked with several neighbors who will be voting no on this bond, including a few who voted yes in '04.

Whether it be $38 million or $7 million, I find it outrageous to give students laptops with taxpayer money.... no thanks!

What I find insane is coming back to the homeowners every 4 years and asking for more money. Again, over the last 2 years property assessments increased and so did our tax bills, this money should be used to repair and maintain structures. I've said repeatedly that builders should be assessed impact fees that are passed along to the homeowner for infrastructure for schools and other public needs for these new subdivisions, I suspect that there are more school age children living in the newer subdivisions than there are living in the older ones. Between the increased tax assessments and a bond this sounds like a real windfall! Perhaps a no vote would convince this district to be more prudent with taxpayer money.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rich, do you really want to know who has their head in the sand? Let me clue you in on some things that I have learned over my 25 years of involvement with Klein ISD. I mean, I don't live in the Estates section of Gleannloch, and have the influence within the District you think you do, but in all the years I have been a part of this District I might have learned a thing or two.

First off, keep thinking the Klein Collins change was from your group. When it is obvious that the change was made to gather more support to pass the bond from the KCHS zone. It is working. I guess in a way you had something to do with it. So now the District has gathered support from both the KHS crowd, and the KCHS crowd, well done.

Second, KHS is going nowhere, There is way to much invested over too many years for KISD to sell it off. The common man on the street could tell you that. My suggestion to you is to drop that ridiculous idea. Like I stated earlier, your plan doesn't solve any overcrowding issues at the HS level, it only shifts them around, you still need HS #6, and you do not have an answer for that. KHS needs to be upgraded, the extent of that upgrade is a big problem with this bond, $130 million is a ludicrous number for that campus.

Third, the land Klein has obtained for HS #5, and #6 were collected through eminent domain, therefore KISD can only sell them for what they paid for it, to turn a profit would be illegal. In that, since a HS #6 is needed eventually and it takes around 100 - 120 acres for a HS site. That amount of land is not really available out here, KISD did the right thing obtaining these properties when the price was at a reasonable rate, not to mention the purchase of both these lands was already approved in the previous bond package. So if you lived here in 2004, and voted, you approved it.

Fourth, your group is doing nothing but wasting its time. If there is one thing I have learned in all this time with KISD it is this, no matter what you do, or say, or present they are still going to do what they want to do regardless. In fact, the District would love it if the School Board went away so they could have freedom to do that without the red tape. You think these steering committees are done to find the best bond? Everyone knows these were stacked in favor of KHS, why do you think that is? This bond was made up before then, and is already a done deal, the election, and these town halls are merely small hurdles for the District. Sure you could vote it down, but that is a tremendous effort that the District thinks you are not capable of, and right now they are right. So keep putting your ads in the paper, etc, it is all time and money that you will never see a return on.

Fifth, your implications that I have some sort of inside information is laughable. I am not defending KISD, or the Board, in fact I think they have done a poor job in questioning this bond, I want to vote no on it and have them start over. Your group has sent out emails throughout the neighborhood, things like that get around. All I have done is kept my ears open to get my information. Parents talk, whether it is at school, church, the store, or at a social gathering, word gets out. Just for your information I have received two emails from KISD, both in response to an email I wrote voicing my concerns about the bond election. Just like your plan you are looking for something that isn't there.

Like I said before, I think this is a bad bond, it covers some, but not all the needs the District has as a whole. Your group thinks the District only applies to your immediate surroundings, it is a narrow view that comes off as arrogant. With the message you are sending throughout your community you and your group will destroy any credibility Gleannloch has as a voting block in the District, and your voice is eventually going to fall on deaf ears, if it hasn't already.

Edited by ENGcons
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You keep thinking this is just a gleannloch group and you are wrong. There are people from quite a few neighborhoods involved and we are recruiting more. So, you are ignorant and I dont mean that as an insult. You choose to be uninformed. Oh, you may be informed about one side of the coin, but not the other. That is the same as being uninformed my friend.

Sounds like you are a very jealous person. When the re-zoning thing took place a year or so ago, I attended the board meetings stood up and insisted that the Bluff not be separated, that MCE still go to hassler and the Hillcrest stay too. I argued that there was no need to remove that number of people that KISD was proposing. I said it in public at the town hall meetings and I said it on the online forums. Does that make me an elitist?

I dont care if we get the HS #5 or not. I and the rest of the members of Klein for all actually do care more about the entire district and the spending. We care that in 2004, we spent 22 Million on repairs and in 2008, after adding only 3 buildings to the district, we are proposing to spend 98 M. We care that there was $40 Million in bonds left from 2004 to sell that could have been used to fix KHS, but instead, the administration is saving it to buy laptop computers. We care that a wall fell down at Klein Oak, that mold was in a bunch of schools, that overcrowding exists everywhere. Again, you are not doing your research. You know where I live, you know my kids go to Hassler, you should know that Hassler is not overcrowded. That is not the fight we are fighting. I had a daughter graduate from KO. If my next child goes to KO, that is fine.

What is different about me from you and others like you is that I put my name behind my position. I dont hide behind a moniker and throw stones and name call or send chicken !#% anonymous letters to people's homes. Nothing worth having comes for free. If you feel so strongly and have such high opions about people you dont even know, put your name out there.

And thanks for all the facts and figures by the way (sarcasm). I knew you didnt have any. And you are the one who alluded to knowing all these great things that I could never understand. You put yourself on the pedestal. I certainly would not.

Be a man. Get to know me, I dare you. You will find that I worked extremely hard for every thing I have and I will bet you that my beginnings were much more humble than yours. I dare you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rich, do you really want to know who has their head in the sand...

ENGcons - if you are who you say you are, why hide behind a blog? I would love to have you partipate in our next group meeting.

By the way, unrelated topic: Does anyone knows the name of the KISD board member's son who stood up at the end one of the last steering comittee meeting to saying he was forming a comittee to help get the bond passed (asking for volunteers)? I'd like to challenge him to an open debate on the bond. Someone said he lived in Gleannloch Farms...

Brad Ross

832-667-5151

Gleannloch Resident and Educated Voter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Look at this

KHS in 2002

KHS in 2006

Guys it's time to get rid of the T-buildings at Klein High.

Totally agree. It's time to find a better location for a new buidling. This is a bad site for a high school. Rebuilding individual buildings is not going to fix the problems. There are better solutions for the same cost.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rich, your plan is not going to work. KHS will never leave that property, it needs to be upgraded on the land it is sitting on. And if you did follow your plan you still end up with 5 high schools and the future need for a 6th, but no land to put it on. Despite many of the Districts shortcomings Klein has planned ahead much better than you think.

And yes I still think the actions of your group specifically the people from Gleannloch are arrogant, and express an elitist attitude. I live in Gleannloch and I, and many of my neighbors are embarrassed by your groups approach. I have no interest in visiting your website or supporting your group in any way.

Like I said before I am not happy with this bond, but your group is making my rethink on how to vote.

I'm confused. You agree that this is a bad bond, but you would actually vote for it in a misguided attempt to spite some group of residents who are also opposed to it. That's seriously wrong. You're going to show the board support for a bad plan just so you can say "There."? Does that really make sense to you? I mean no one even knows who you are - are going to mail a copy of your "yes" vote or post a copy to this Web site so we can believe you did it?

Seriously re-evaluate your motives. And from what I've read, I don't think you actually know what the Klein for All group supports. Lots of assumptions and you know what they say about assumptions - they make you look foolish.

I just found out that PBK Architects will be designing Klein ISD's 5th High School.

Have they named the group that will work on the rebuild of KHS? I was trying to understand who provided those rebuild and new build estimates to the steering committee.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dr. Cain mentioned that almost every school in the district has T buildings. I agree it is time to get rid of them in all of our schools. But, they dont go away even when there is enough capacity. They get used for someother purpose, like JROTC or some other special program.

That would be Chris Allen. I believe he lives in Gleannloch too....on the North Side.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm confused. You agree that this is a bad bond, but you would actually vote for it in a misguided attempt to spite some group of residents who are also opposed to it. That's seriously wrong. You're going to show the board support for a bad plan just so you can say "There."? Does that really make sense to you? I mean no one even knows who you are - are going to mail a copy of your "yes" vote or post a copy to this Web site so we can believe you did it?

Seriously re-evaluate your motives. And from what I've read, I don't think you actually know what the Klein for All group supports. Lots of assumptions and you know what they say about assumptions - they make you look foolish.

Have they named the group that will work on the rebuild of KHS? I was trying to understand who provided those rebuild and new build estimates to the steering committee.

No, I don't think so. It will most likely be one of the following-SPA, SHW or PBK.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

your group is doing nothing but wasting its time. If there is one thing I have learned in all this time with KISD it is this, no matter what you do, or say, or present they are still going to do what they want to do regardless. In fact, the District would love it if the School Board went away so they could have freedom to do that without the red tape. You think these steering committees are done to find the best bond? Everyone knows these were stacked in favor of KHS, why do you think that is? This bond was made up before then, and is already a done deal, the election, and these town halls are merely small hurdles for the District. Sure you could vote it down, but that is a tremendous effort that the District thinks you are not capable of, and right now they are right. So keep putting your ads in the paper, etc, it is all time and money that you will never see a return on.

Like I said before, I think this is a bad bond, it covers some, but not all the needs the District has as a whole. Your group thinks the District only applies to your immediate surroundings, it is a narrow view that comes off as arrogant. With the message you are sending throughout your community you and your group will destroy any credibility Gleannloch has as a voting block in the District, and your voice is eventually going to fall on deaf ears, if it hasn't already.

So your answer is to sit back and let the District take advantage of taxpayer money? Humble voted down a bond and reorganized their board. It can be done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fourth, your group is doing nothing but wasting its time. If there is one thing I have learned in all this time with KISD it is this, no matter what you do, or say, or present they are still going to do what they want to do regardless. In fact, the District would love it if the School Board went away so they could have freedom to do that without the red tape. You think these steering committees are done to find the best bond? Everyone knows these were stacked in favor of KHS, why do you think that is? This bond was made up before then, and is already a done deal, the election, and these town halls are merely small hurdles for the District. Sure you could vote it down, but that is a tremendous effort that the District thinks you are not capable of, and right now they are right. So keep putting your ads in the paper, etc, it is all time and money that you will never see a return on.

Why is this a waste of time? You admit in your post that you perceive the Klein Board as well as the Steering Committee as being either morally debased, arrogant or both. Which I personally would tend to agree with; why would any of us vote yes on a bond that does not benefit ALL of the taxpayers?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The perfectly good buildings are not being abandoned in the current proposal, they are being torn down and rebuilt. Everyone seems to think that Klein High School was built in the 60's. The majority of the school was not built in the 60's. In fact, the current proposal is to tear down the high rise which was built in 1979 as well as buildings from the 80's and one from 1992.

If all they were proposing was to rebuild the old building, it could be done in place. This would be the same as adding a wing to Klein Oak or Klein Collins. Those wings have capacity of 500 to 700 students. That is about the same size as a project to rebuild the main building from the 60's. If it is OK to have Klein Oak and Klein Collins' kids go to school in a construction zone, it should be OK for KHS also. However, now that the project has grown from the inital couple of buildings that was originally proposed to 8 buildings, of course you cant rebuild this entire thing with kids on campus.

I have promised KHS parents that I would post their concerns on the www.kleinforall.com website. I will also be sending them to Dr. Cain for comment. Some of the concerns include:

Rat infestation

Mold

Buildings have to be kept at 50 degrees in order to keep mold from growing

Students have to wade to class, knee deep in water

Walls are falling down

Ceilings have fallen down

The school is on a busy intersection

The school needs to be under one roof for security concerns

It is Old

There are too many doors that students and uninvited guests can enter

The administration claims that the buildings are safe and up to code. This statement was made by Dr. Cain at one of the Steering Committee meetings and can be viewed at www.kleinisd.net in the minutes. When asked why the rebuild, Dr. Cain's reply was "we got together and talked about it and just felt the time was right." He also mentioned that he thought too much money being poured into the existing buildings. From a percentage of replacement cost perspective, we pour more money into other buildings than we do Klein High. In fact, the amount of money we are proposing to spend on rennovation has gone from $22M in the 2004 Bond to over $98M in the 2008 Bond. Should we be rebuiling other schools first, where we clearly are investing a higher percentage of the rebuild cost?

There is no engineering report indicating a rebuild is required. This is what everyone seems to forget. If there is no financial or scientific justification to rebuilding, it is clearly a want and not a need. That being said, again, many of the Klein For All members have toured Klein High and agree that something needs to be done. The time is not right to rebuild and place additional burden on over crowding. If we must rebuild in place, it should wait a few years. If we can rebuild some place else, fine...lets do it. The bigger question is why hasn't the building been repaired? why are ceilings falling down? there is $40M left to fund from the 2004 Bond Proposal. Yes, it is earmarked to buy a laptop for every high school student, but is that more important than fixing Klein High School? Apparently it is. The Administration could have diverted that money to fix Klein High, but chose not to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, a lot of rebuttle needed here, looks like you got the whole gang posting, so here goes.

Ok, first off I remain anonymous on this board because I normally don't discuss school business here. In case you didn't notice this is an Architectural board that mainly deals with projects around town, not school bonds. I discuss projects occurring around town that I do business with. I share information with others here who also would like to remain anonymous. This is normally how a message board works. Again this is not your private board; I have been a member here for years.

Second, who cares about zoning? What does that have to do with the bond? I'll let your jealousy comment die on its own.

And this letter? Not sure what you are talking about, I haven't mailed a letter in years, Hell I don't even know where the stamps are in my house. And I am not part of any group, just a lone citizen voicing concerns. Talk about assumptions.

And I never have said I am anyone, just a resident who listens to what is going on around me. You are the ones who stirred this anti-bond movement all up, not everyone is going to agree with you so deal with the consequences, not everybody thinks like you.

You want to talk about assumptions, you sir are the one who is assuming too much. I can't bring up facts with you; it would be a waste of my time. You have already made up your mind and there is no dealing with that. Whether it is on the bond, or your opinion about me. By your fellow posters I am assuming you think I am Chris Allen, steering committee member and founder of the PAC. Sorry to disappoint you, I never even met the man.

I am sure you people have some ideas that might be helpful, but your approach is what I think everyone has a problem with. It is evident in the attacks you are placing on me in here, the

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So your answer is to sit back and let the District take advantage of taxpayer money? Humble voted down a bond and reorganized their board. It can be done.

No IO do not want that, I am merely expressing my views of how I have watched this District operate for years. I ma not happy withthe Board, I think they have let the District slide on this, again. I am extremenly dissapointed in the elected board who have not asked the toughe questions and made the District prove on a detailed level that this bond is good for all, not just one group.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The perfectly good buildings are not being abandoned in the current proposal, they are being torn down and rebuilt. Everyone seems to think that Klein High School was built in the 60's. The majority of the school was not built in the 60's. In fact, the current proposal is to tear down the high rise which was built in 1979 as well as buildings from the 80's and one from 1992.

If all they were proposing was to rebuild the old building, it could be done in place. This would be the same as adding a wing to Klein Oak or Klein Collins. Those wings have capacity of 500 to 700 students. That is about the same size as a project to rebuild the main building from the 60's. If it is OK to have Klein Oak and Klein Collins' kids go to school in a construction zone, it should be OK for KHS also. However, now that the project has grown from the inital couple of buildings that was originally proposed to 8 buildings, of course you cant rebuild this entire thing with kids on campus.

I have promised KHS parents that I would post their concerns on the www.kleinforall.com website. I will also be sending them to Dr. Cain for comment. Some of the concerns include:

Rat infestation

Mold

Buildings have to be kept at 50 degrees in order to keep mold from growing

Students have to wade to class, knee deep in water

Walls are falling down

Ceilings have fallen down

The school is on a busy intersection

The school needs to be under one roof for security concerns

It is Old

There are too many doors that students and uninvited guests can enter

I was under the impression that tearing down the High Rise was removed from the proposal, and that the more recent buildings (i.e. the 1992 Pavilion) would not be torn down. There are also other recent buildings that I know aren't in the proposal, such as the band/orchestra building.

So we would be abandoning perfectly good buildings if we left this location, and I don't know who we would sell them to for a "hefty profit." Who wants to buy a high school band hall for a hefty price?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm confused. You agree that this is a bad bond, but you would actually vote for it in a misguided attempt to spite some group of residents who are also opposed to it. That's seriously wrong. You're going to show the board support for a bad plan just so you can say "There."? Does that really make sense to you? I mean no one even knows who you are - are going to mail a copy of your "yes" vote or post a copy to this Web site so we can believe you did it?

Seriously re-evaluate your motives. And from what I've read, I don't think you actually know what the Klein for All group supports. Lots of assumptions and you know what they say about assumptions - they make you look foolish.

Have they named the group that will work on the rebuild of KHS? I was trying to understand who provided those rebuild and new build estimates to the steering committee.

I think this is a bad bond and want to vote no on it fo rthe overall plan. What I do understand is that each on of these projects listed int eh bond have to get voted on by the boardindividually. Which means som eprojects could get taken out, or modified. It happened inteh 2004 bond. So there is a chance that this bond could shrink after it gets passed (if it passes)

I am holding judgement on teh bond, I would like to see it go back to the drawing board, but the realist in me and the KISD way are telling me it won't. I don't want o vote yes, but I feel K4A is not totalling in the realm of reality on their ideas. KISD will not sell the KHS property, it will never happen, why pursue it?

And that door on assumptions swings both ways.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why is this a waste of time? You admit in your post that you perceive the Klein Board as well as the Steering Committee as being either morally debased, arrogant or both. Which I personally would tend to agree with; why would any of us vote yes on a bond that does not benefit ALL of the taxpayers?

CA I do nothtink the Board is morally debased. The District I have my doubts on, but my gut wants to say that the Board really does want what is best. Problem is this, I do not know this for fact but I don't recall any of the board being experts in the field of construction, how can they be expected to make decisions on a bond that deals with building new facilities and upgrades others? They can't, they have to rely on teh District for that information, I tend to think that the District has a habit of spinning info to achieve their desired result. Costs, schedules, etc. This bond is full of wish list projects and not needed projects to address the needs of the students and teachers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People, Rich, Klein for all group. I am done with this issue, I have spent too much energy on it already with you all. I have said my peace but will not be accused of writing anonymous threatening letters, and in turn be threatened by some bully tactics group. This is the last I will discuss the bond on this board, in fact this board is not the place for such discussions.

Good luck with your movement, I hope that you will begin a more positive approach to making changes in the District.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

KISD will not sell the KHS property, it will never happen, why pursue it?

The more I think about it, the more this seems like an attempt by the Axis of Envy (KO, KF, KC) to break the historic and sentimental attachments people have to Klein High. If they can move Klein High, it goes from being the oldest school to the newest, the darling of the district to its youngest child. Everyone moves up a step on the ladder of establishment, and they don't have to feel like they're always the Visitor when they play Klein in football.

I wonder if there have been analogous ploys by schools in other districts. Maybe Cy Falls, Cy Ridge, etc. have tried to move and rebuild Cy Fair because, after all, it's dangerous being so close to that freeway.

;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Problems I have with the proposed Klein ISD bond:

1. Re-build of Klein High has not been proven to be necessary by any engineering reports, and therefore should not happen at this time, when there are serious issues with OVERCROWDING at many of the Klein schools that need to be addressed first. After the overcrowding issues have been addressed, then the district can move on to some of their wants.

2. Laptops in the high schools are not a necessity, and there are published reports stating that they are actually detrimental to achieving higher grades in school. Colleges do not provide them, I don't think Klein think should be doing so either.

3. According to daily news reports, we are approaching a recession, and now is not the time to be holding a bond election for $650 million dollars. Lower the cost of the bond by removing the Klein High re-build and the laptops.

4. I have heard that we are still carrying over $40 million dollars from the last bond. How does this work? Is that amount going to be rolled into this bond? Has anyone else heard this and can explain it?

5. The Klein district paid for a Chancery system four years ago that has never given parents and students the tools that were promised. The system has had major problems over the years and I understand that we've hired consultants to help deal with those issues, but four years is just too long to keep people waiting.

One of the tools that parents and students were promised with the Chancery system was an ability to log on to your students record and instantly view their daily attendance records, tardies record, daily grades, major grades, and upcoming assignments.

I have heard that schools in Humble, Tomball, Spring and some districts in Austin have heard this ability for years. Their systems go by different names like Pinnacle Viewer, but their ability to log on and view these things gives them advantages over Klein students. They also have their approximate class rank printed on the bottom of every report card, giving the student an idea where they stand in relation to the rest of their class, which allows them the ability to adjust their classes to manage their rank.

This ability is absolutely crucial in Texas where the Top 10% rule is the deciding factor when it comes to getting into Texas public universities. I have been told that Klein has the ability to do this now, but will never do this because it will cause the the students to be "too competitive" with each other. Other schools do this and have for years, and they seem to do fine with it. Besides, Klein students don't share their report card information with each other now, I don't see that changing.

I have friends in these other districts who knew from 9th grade, every six weeks, where their child was ranked in their class. My child did not know their class rank until they were a senior, and by then, it's really too late to make adjustments to what classes they should be taking.

In high school, there are different levels of classes, such as "regulars", "honors", "dual-credit", or "A.P." or "advanced placement". If one of my friend's children was not doing well in an A.P. class, they had the knowledge and ability to move the child down to an easier level, thus assuring that their G.P.A. remained high and ensuring that they would be in the Top 10% of their graduation class.

If other schools in Texas have this knowledge and ability, then Klein should put their students on the same level playing field and utilize the full advertised potential of the Chancery system, rather than surprising students with the class rank when they're a senior when it is just be too late. Klein is putting our students at a huge disadvantage in this regard.

End of rant. I understand Dr. Cain and the board made no major changes to the bond, therefore I will make no major changes to my position either. I will be voting NO to the bond election, if and when they call for an election.

Edited by pineda
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Several of the KISD Board members attended meetings of the Steering Committee, however none of their children were involved. The gentleman who is organizing the PAC to promote this bond is not related to any current or past Board member.

This is my first post here, although I have followed this Forum for some time. Everyone I know is voting against this bond, me included. WAY too much money.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think this is a bad bond and want to vote no on it fo rthe overall plan. What I do understand is that each on of these projects listed int eh bond have to get voted on by the boardindividually. Which means som eprojects could get taken out, or modified. It happened inteh 2004 bond. So there is a chance that this bond could shrink after it gets passed (if it passes)

I am holding judgement on teh bond, I would like to see it go back to the drawing board, but the realist in me and the KISD way are telling me it won't. I don't want o vote yes, but I feel K4A is not totalling in the realm of reality on their ideas. KISD will not sell the KHS property, it will never happen, why pursue it?

And that door on assumptions swings both ways.

..door on assumptions...Ha ha ha. But I actually read the Web site and compared it to Klein ISD Web site data. I don't think you have much of a leg to stand on since you won't even read it.

But beside the point - why won't KISD sell the KHS property? I think it needs to be pursued because it is the solution that meets everyone's needs. If the administration is so set in their ways that they can't do what's best for the district, then maybe it's time for a change of leadership. Why are you so pessimistic? You said before that you've been working with KISD for 25 years. That to me seems to be the problem. "Grumble, grumble, you can't change it, grumble, grumble, just give up". Maybe the board needs some new members who aren't so embedded and will do what's best for the district as a whole, not what they are told.

Edited by zyw
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm slightly new to the Klein area. I moved here mainly for the schools. The more I read here, speak with others, and dig into past information, the more concerned I am becoming with the leadership of KISD and others with authority. I have learned very little that would suggest those in charge are even halfway concerned with the overall quality of KISD but are more concerned with personal crusades, maintaining status quo, and keeping their jobs at almost any cost. I believe this bond is a perfect example.

Here is my extended question....am I misinformed; have I misinterpreted what I am reading, hearing, and seeing; am I getting part of my information from people who have just misremembered :D ?

Edited by slash
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The more I think about it, the more this seems like an attempt by the Axis of Envy (KO, KF, KC) to break the historic and sentimental attachments people have to Klein High. If they can move Klein High, it goes from being the oldest school to the newest, the darling of the district to its youngest child. Everyone moves up a step on the ladder of establishment, and they don't have to feel like they're always the Visitor when they play Klein in football.

I wonder if there have been analogous ploys by schools in other districts. Maybe Cy Falls, Cy Ridge, etc. have tried to move and rebuild Cy Fair because, after all, it's dangerous being so close to that freeway.

;)

They will still have the name, colors and mascot. I think the majority would prefer a new school. Why have it on a piece of land that doesn't work for the district anymore? Maybe they could erect a small landmark if it so pleases them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think architects can work with the current Klein High School property. The district doesn't have any other land that can be for the Klein HS Zone. Parts of the school that were built recently like the Fine Arts Building can be incorporated into the new building.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Klein ISD school board to call for bond election in May

from the story:

Cain said he made a pledge to the board and community prior to their vote Tuesday.

"I understand that with any significant issue, there will be differences of opinion in the community, and I respect those opinions," Cain said. "I want to make sure that when things are stated in print or over the Internet, that the information is factually correct and complete so that people have the opportunity to make an informed decision.

"I pledge to make sure that everything we (Klein ISD) distributes in print or on the Internet is factually correct and complete."

Geez, and I was naive enough to think that had been the norm all these years. Guess not...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Klein ISD school board to call for bond election in May

from the story:

Cain said he made a pledge to the board and community prior to their vote Tuesday.

"I understand that with any significant issue, there will be differences of opinion in the community, and I respect those opinions," Cain said. "I want to make sure that when things are stated in print or over the Internet, that the information is factually correct and complete so that people have the opportunity to make an informed decision.

"I pledge to make sure that everything we (Klein ISD) distributes in print or on the Internet is factually correct and complete."

Geez, and I was naive enough to think that had been the norm all these years. Guess not...

If only Cain practiced what he preaches!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Klein ISD school board to call for bond election in May

from the story:

Cain said he made a pledge to the board and community prior to their vote Tuesday.

"I understand that with any significant issue, there will be differences of opinion in the community, and I respect those opinions," Cain said. "I want to make sure that when things are stated in print or over the Internet, that the information is factually correct and complete so that people have the opportunity to make an informed decision.

"I pledge to make sure that everything we (Klein ISD) distributes in print or on the Internet is factually correct and complete."

Geez, and I was naive enough to think that had been the norm all these years. Guess not...

What in that quote suggested that it wasn't the norm over all these years?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

This is new information released from PBK Architect's Website.

PBK has been chosen by the Klein ISD Board of Trustees to design the District's newest high school (#5). The project was awarded through a very comprehensive design competition process. The new high school is programmed for 550,000-square feet, will accommodate 3,600 students and has a budget of $116 Million. Once complete, this will be one of the largest stand-alone high school facilities in the nation (that doesn't have a 9th Grade Center attached). Dan Boggio, Irene Nigaglioni and Ian Powell will lead the charge for PBK's management of this project.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • The title was changed to Klein ISD Bond Plan 2008

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...