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Klein ISD Bond Plan 2008


Chris

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No kidding, but my point was "Do we really need to have bell towers at elementary or any level schools?" Chris, I think one time you said you were a student at Klein Collins, are you still? How do happen to get information such as site plans for future schools, when that information has not yet been released to the community by Klein ISD? Do you have any ambitions to run for the school board one day yourself?

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No kidding, but my point was "Do we really need to have bell towers at elementary or any level schools?" Chris, I think one time you said you were a student at Klein Collins, are you still? How do happen to get information such as site plans for future schools, when that information has not yet been released to the community by Klein ISD? Do you have any ambitions to run for the school board one day yourself?

Bell towers are just Architectural Elements that the architect uses in the building design? Yes, I am still a student at Klein Collins High School. The board releases information before the board meetings, and I do intend on becomming a Klein ISD Board Member one day.

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I have already written to bond08@kleinisd.net, Dr. Cain, and all board members that I will be voting NO on this bond proposal unless the district goes back to the original proposal - building high schools #5 and #6 and a major remodel (not a raze and rebuild) of Klein High School. I know many others who are writing emails stating the same thing.

We'll need to watch this thing closely!

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Part of the argument for rebuilding Klein High is that the dilapidated main building is only a one-story on an overcrowded campus. Make it two stories and then you don't have to cram portable buildings everywhere.

Also, the hallways, main offices, bathrooms, etc. are simply not adequate for a school that size. Remember that when this was built it was a 2A school.

I'll be sorry to see the Annex go; that was my junior high (Kleb).

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Part of the argument for rebuilding Klein High is that the dilapidated main building is only a one-story on an overcrowded campus. Make it two stories and then you don't have to cram portable buildings everywhere.

Also, the hallways, main offices, bathrooms, etc. are simply not adequate for a school that size. Remember that when this was built it was a 2A school.

I'll be sorry to see the Annex go; that was my junior high (Kleb).

I hear you, H-Town Man, and some of the proposals that were offered by community members did say that since it was generally agreed upon that while the current Klein High site may have been adequate for a 2-A school, it no longer is.

Issues of security, dilapidated buildings, undersized parking lot and surrounded by too many businesses all supported a suggestion to go back to the original bond proposal plan of building two new high schools. When that was done, then bulldoze Klein High, and increase the size of Klein Memorial Stadium, since a stadium at that site would be a better fit, and would only require renovation rather than new "Berry Center" style construction.

But, somehow, the sentimentality from the Klein High community members on the bond committee overruled that suggestion, and have now decided to form a PAC to make sure that Klein High gets rebuilt on that exact site. Too bad, because there are better areas available within the Klein ISD to build a great high school rather than there.

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I hear you, H-Town Man, and some of the proposals that were offered by community members did say that since it was generally agreed upon that while the current Klein High site may have been adequate for a 2-A school, it no longer is.

Issues of security, dilapidated buildings, undersized parking lot and surrounded by too many businesses all supported a suggestion to go back to the original bond proposal plan of building two new high schools. When that was done, then bulldoze Klein High, and increase the size of Klein Memorial Stadium, since a stadium at that site would be a better fit, and would only require renovation rather than new "Berry Center" style construction.

But, somehow, the sentimentality from the Klein High community members on the bond committee overruled that suggestion, and have now decided to form a PAC to make sure that Klein High gets rebuilt on that exact site. Too bad, because there are better areas available within the Klein ISD to build a great high school rather than there.

I have to agree with the sentimentality of the community... Klein High has been at that spot for 45 years and does not need to go anywhere. Plus at least half the buildings there are very recent and state of the art... silly to waste those, and silly to waste a great campus with unique history and charm.

All the school really needs is a new main building that is in line with current conditions at other high schools. That campus is important to the history and identity of the area in ways that transcend its role in educating students... no way it should be lost.

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Sure, that makes sense enough.

But, at this time, it doesn't make any sense to have Klein call for a $640 million dollar bond election that will raise the average homeowner's tax bill $350.00 a year, and do little to alleviate the massive overcrowding occurring at most of the Klein campuses.

The current joke is "Which schools in Klein ISD DON'T have trailers?"

So, I think taking that into consideration, that the current "master plan" to re-build Klein High should be back-burnered and more pressing issues (i.e. overcrowding) be addressed with the bond money instead.

Then, once the "needs" of the district are taken care of, then the "wants" can be presented for a bond election.

If the Klein High re-build stays on the bond proposal, I will voting issuing a NO vote.

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I couldn't agree more with you, Mr. Football, which I why I just don't understand why the bond committee members took the original plan that called for the building of two new high schools and changed it into this one, which calls for a re-build of Klein High and just a wing added onto Klein Oak.

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Some schools have more trailers than others.

We can't just build new high schools and not renew the ones we already have. When a school gets old enough, it needs to be upgraded. But sometimes it is cheaper in the long run to build a new building than to keep rehabbing the one you already have.

It's like that old 1978 Plymouth your mom has. You rebuilt the engine a few years back. You've done serious work on the transmission. Now the carpet is tattered, the seatcushions have holes, and the headliner is hanging down.

Do you keep pouring more and more money into that Plymouth to keep it running, or at some point do you buy mom a new car?

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Ha-ha, great analogy there! Here's another one:

Your mom's car is definitely a clunker, and as a good son, you should do the right thing and buy your mom that new car!

But, you're forgetting about your poor dad, whose old van is beat and old as well, AND he has the added burden of hauling around all your brothers and sisters in that old van, which everyone readily agrees is way too overcrowded.

Wow! What to do? You only have so much money to spend here, but because they're both dear family members, whom you love equally, what's a good son like you supposed to do?

Well, why not fix up dear old mom's car with a little good old fashioned maintenance, and stop neglecting her so much. Why not buy new cars for your brothers and sisters who have all their sons and daughters moving in with them, and keep fixing up and keeping in good repair dad's old van.

That way, mom and dad still have something to drive, even though it's not as new and expensive as you would have loved for them to both have, because you're such a good son and mean to do well by them, but after all, you're not exactly made of money, and these days, finances have to be thoroughly scrutinized, and you just can't do everything you'd like to.

Fix mom's car up, after all, it still runs just fine. (this would be Klein High)

Fix dad's car up, he deserves the same amount of attention and love mom gets. (this would be Klein Oak & Klein Forest)

Buy your brother and sister new cars, after all, you promised you would do exactly that 4 years ago. (this would be the two new high schools promised from the last bond election and recommended by the PASA report over six years ago.)

Then maybe in a few years down the road, when you're flush with money from the lottery you won, you can splurge and buy new cars for mom and dad, because, hey, that's just the kind of good son any mom and dad would be proud of!

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Ha-ha, great analogy there! Here's another one:

Your mom's car is definitely a clunker, and as a good son, you should do the right thing and buy your mom that new car!

But, you're forgetting about your poor dad, whose old van is beat and old as well, AND he has the added burden of hauling around all your brothers and sisters in that old van, which everyone readily agrees is way too overcrowded.

Wow! What to do? You only have so much money to spend here, but because they're both dear family members, whom you love equally, what's a good son like you supposed to do?

Well, why not fix up dear old mom's car with a little good old fashioned maintenance, and stop neglecting her so much. Why not buy new cars for your brothers and sisters who have all their sons and daughters moving in with them, and keep fixing up and keeping in good repair dad's old van.

That way, mom and dad still have something to drive, even though it's not as new and expensive as you would have loved for them to both have, because you're such a good son and mean to do well by them, but after all, you're not exactly made of money, and these days, finances have to be thoroughly scrutinized, and you just can't do everything you'd like to.

Fix mom's car up, after all, it still runs just fine. (this would be Klein High)

Fix dad's car up, he deserves the same amount of attention and love mom gets. (this would be Klein Oak & Klein Forest)

Buy your brother and sister new cars, after all, you promised you would do exactly that 4 years ago. (this would be the two new high schools promised from the last bond election and recommended by the PASA report over six years ago.)

Then maybe in a few years down the road, when you're flush with money from the lottery you won, you can splurge and buy new cars for mom and dad, because, hey, that's just the kind of good son any mom and dad would be proud of!

Couple problems there... Klein Oak and Klein Forest are both much more recent and modern in construction than Klein High. Nor do they have the overcrowding problems that Klein High does. Have you ever actually been inside Klein High, pineda? Compare the hallways, the bathrooms, the offices, the ceiling heights, etc. in the main building to the ones in Klein Oak.

"Fix dad's car up, he deserves the same amount of attention and love mom gets."

No way you can call that the same situation.

Well, why not fix up dear old mom's car with a little good old fashioned maintenance, and stop neglecting her so much.

That's what we've been doing for 45 years. At some point, it's more cost effective to build something new than to keep pouring money into something outdated and substandard.

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Couple problems there... Klein Oak and Klein Forest are both much more recent and modern in construction than Klein High. Nor do they have the overcrowding problems that Klein High does. Have you ever actually been inside Klein High, pineda? Compare the hallways, the bathrooms, the offices, the ceiling heights, etc. in the main building to the ones in Klein Oak.

"Fix dad's car up, he deserves the same amount of attention and love mom gets."

No way you can call that the same situation.

Definitely have been inside all four schools a lot over the last four years. Klein, Klein Forest and Klein Oak all are showing wear, and could use some sprucing up. Here's the part I just can't agree with:

The original proposal was to build two new high schools, to accomodate the growth right now, in the district.

The plan changed to eliminate two new high schools, and build a new school for Klein High and add a wing onto already overcrowded Klein Oak, bringing that population of students at Oak up to 5,000 students. I feel that the needs of the students at the other schools, Klein Oak, Klein Forest and Klein Collins, who are already attending class in overcrowded situations, are being overlooked, so that Klein High can get a new school.

My request is that the school district deal with the most pressing issue of overcrowding FIRST, with the bond being proposed, then with the NEXT bond proposal four years from now, the Klein High re-build can be better addressed. The overcrowding at the high school level is of more immediate concern than the aging maintenance issues of Klein High, and need to be immediately addressed now.

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I can't agree that the situation at Klein's main building is comparable to that of Klein Oak or Klein Forest. The hallways there are less than half the size of the ones at Klein Oak, the classroom lighting is dim, the main offices are cramped, the ceilings are low, and I can only imagine how much worse shape the pipes, wires, etc. are, considering that they are almost twenty years older.

Won't there still be overcrowding issues four years from now? Klein seemed ancient and out of date when I was there over ten years ago. They were talking about rebuilding it then, but then it got put off (I guess for Klein Collins). It's always easy to just put it off...

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I think the best alternative for Klein ISD to do at this point is to first put the 2nd High School #6 back on the Bond, and just do a major remodel and update to Klein High School. Then they need to build High School #5 and open it for the students who are supposed to be zoned there only. While Klein High School is being remodeled, Students can have class in T-Buildings and have Lunches held in the Annex Building. I don't think adding a new wing to Klein Oak will be very wise because when HS#6 opens, it's going to tke a big chunk of KOHS's Enrollment not to mention taking Gleannloch Farms and a couple other subdivisions when HS #5 opens.

The way Klein Collins High School is growing, There might need to be a new Wing added to it. There is literally no more room to add anymore T-Building at KCHS. We already have about 14 lined up on the side of the school now. Klein Collins will not be relieved until the next Bond Program which could be up to 5 years from now. Klein Collins is the largest and newest high school in Klein ISD and can only hold 3,131 students to be exact, and there's about 3,260 almost 3,300 students in 113 classrooms and 28 T-Building Classrooms.

Let's just face the facts, All 4 KISD High Schools are facing Overcrowding Issues. They can't all be delt with at one time.

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I think the best alternative for Klein ISD to do at this point is to first put the 2nd High School #6 back on the Bond, and just do a major remodel and update to Klein High School. Then they need to build High School #5 and open it for the students who are supposed to be zoned there only. While Klein High School is being remodeled, Students can have class in T-Buildings and have Lunches held in the Annex Building.

I just don't think it makes sense to keep updating when you have a one story building as your main building in a 5A high school. You can repaint the walls, but you still have to deal with the fact that hallways built for a school of 600 or 700 are now the main arteries in a school of over 3,000. I remember just being pressed into a mob as I walked down those hallways... can't imagine how bad it is now.

I definitely sympathize with the other high schools that are as overcrowded as Klein (though with larger hallways and bathrooms). Maybe we just need to come to grips with the fact that we need to spend more money.

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I just don't think it makes sense to keep updating when you have a one story building as your main building in a 5A high school. You can repaint the walls, but you still have to deal with the fact that hallways built for a school of 600 or 700 are now the main arteries in a school of over 3,000. I remember just being pressed into a mob as I walked down those hallways... can't imagine how bad it is now.

I definitely sympathize with the other high schools that are as overcrowded as Klein (though with larger hallways and bathrooms). Maybe we just need to come to grips with the fact that we need to spend more money.

I actually meant that Klein could do a major remodel not update. While this is taking place, Place Students in T-Buildings. 4 Elementary Schools had to do it when their school was full of mold and had to be rebricked. They didn't move these kids to Frank and Benignus just cause they were new and unused.

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"Which schools in Klein ISD DON'T have trailers?"

Krahn Doesn't.

T-Buildings

Half of my classes are in T-Buildings I'm tired of them. Why not move us to the other schools.

I can only imagine how much worse shape the pipes

Thats Why parts of ceilings collapsed in 3 Restrooms.

the bathrooms

You mean Bathrooms without stall doors?

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I just don't think it makes sense to keep updating when you have a one story building as your main building in a 5A high school. You can repaint the walls, but you still have to deal with the fact that hallways built for a school of 600 or 700 are now the main arteries in a school of over 3,000. I remember just being pressed into a mob as I walked down those hallways... can't imagine how bad it is now.

I definitely sympathize with the other high schools that are as overcrowded as Klein (though with larger hallways and bathrooms). Maybe we just need to come to grips with the fact that we need to spend more money.

That sums it up :P

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I'm not sure where some of you are getting your info saying that KHS is more overcrowded than other high schools. Ok - it might be more overcrowded than KF (but I'd bet they'd argue that one).

KHS's capacity is stated to be 3,462 and their 2007 enrollment was 3,279 - making them UNDER capacity by almost 200.

KO's capacity is stated to be 2,761 and their 2007 enrollment was 3,163 - putting them OVER capacity by 400.

KC's capacity is stated to be 3,015 and their 2007 enrollment was 3,204 - puttime the OVER capacity by almost 200.

KISD does all schools a great injustice w/their capacity numbers. They get numbers by counting the available rooms and figuring the maximum each room can hold, and then you get capacity. Although many classes are full (some well over), not every class can be used to capacity, therefore those numbers are way off. Can you imagine how overcrowded KHS would be if you added 200 more kids there?? That's what KO is experiencing now. By the time HS#5 is ready, even with the district's 700 seat addition, KO will STILL be overcapacity by over 200 students. That is pathetic planning! Keep in mind that this projection is using low growth numbers. I would bet a lot that we will be above the low growth numbers in that part of the district - it will be a nightmare. No one is even talking about KC - which is sad. They aren't projected to receive any relief. Great for them, they have a nice, new school (it is pretty!), but with a capacity of 3,015, by the time they construct HS#6, which is the one set to give them relief, it will be 2016 or later, and their enrollment will be over 3,687 - again with those low growth numbers that are horribly inadequate. Finally, I'll go back to KHS. I graduated from there. I loved my school. If you tear down the main building, that IS the history, you may as well move the school. There's nothing special about that land. That is NOT where the original KHS was (which they've also torn down, no attempt to renovate that either). KHS is expected to be complete in 2011 (which I think is in no way possible) with a capacity of 3,500. Those at KHS feel they are overcrowded while they are under capacity now by 200 - how will you feel going back to your semi-new school being OVER capacity? Yes, with the low growth numbers, KHS will go to their semi-new school a whopping 40 students over capacity. Not much, but the number just gets bigger each year.

I do think KHS needs a lot of work. I don't feel that "patching" is really the best option, but when you have serious overcrowding, it is the best option for now. Address our needs, then in the next bond (that I've heard has already been pushed to 3 years from now), rebuild parts of KHS, IF we've stayed in this low growth projection they are so confident of and don't need to address capacity issues. I can say that I would much rather my children go to KHS in it's current form (that I have recently seen) than go to KO with it's overcapacity problems!

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Good post. I've heard others in the area say that they do not care to spend upwards of $150 million to re-build Klein High at this time, but they are entertaining the idea of a "Berry Center" type stadium to be built with bond money.

BTW, I drove out to Portofino Center and checked out the new Woodlands area stadium about a month ago. The huge building being built next door to the football stadium is not a basketball stadium, but a natatorium instead. The Woodlands area has a very big following when it comes to swimming, I would imagine.

But, yeah, if the bond committee doesn't pull the Klein High re-build out of the proposal, I will vote no to the whole thing.

I agree. The original plan looks OK, but if they put this revised plan on a ballot, I'll be voting no and encouraging everyone I know to do the same. The overcrowding at Klein Oak HS and Klein Collins HS are not addressed (adequately or at all!) in the revised plan. Do the board and central administration think they have only one high school that really matters in the whole district?

And, as someone else said above, in this economy, why is this board asking for money that won't solve the problems they already have, now or in the future. Check out the Overcrowding section at http://www.kleinforall.com.

Also - the whole idea of putting laptops in the hands of all high school students is awful. The laptops themselves will end up being the least of their problems. Think of all the firewall and filter problems, the hardware issues that will arise in the central server, the parents who will have to pay for repairs that aren't always caused by their own student(s), and on and on. These two articles are very interesting and should be read closely by all decision makers:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/04/educatio...amp;oref=slogin

and

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...0803271_pf.html

It would be much better to make data available to parents by means of the data management program (attendance, grades, etc.) which the district already has. I think it's called Chancery. This would be similar to the program(s) that Cy-Fair ISD, Humble ISD, Tomball ISD, and Spring ISD have -- enabling parents to keep better track of their children's/students' attendance and grades as often as they wish instead of having to wait around for progress reports and report cards.

Passing the bond as currently revised would make as much sense as our taxes that go to METRO to pay for buses and trains we cannot make use of.

I'll be voting NO!

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I'm not sure where some of you are getting your info saying that KHS is more overcrowded than other high schools. Ok - it might be more overcrowded than KF (but I'd bet they'd argue that one).

KHS's capacity is stated to be 3,462 and their 2007 enrollment was 3,279 - making them UNDER capacity by almost 200.

KO's capacity is stated to be 2,761 and their 2007 enrollment was 3,163 - putting them OVER capacity by 400.

KC's capacity is stated to be 3,015 and their 2007 enrollment was 3,204 - puttime the OVER capacity by almost 200.

KISD does all schools a great injustice w/their capacity numbers. They get numbers by counting the available rooms and figuring the maximum each room can hold, and then you get capacity. Although many classes are full (some well over), not every class can be used to capacity, therefore those numbers are way off. Can you imagine how overcrowded KHS would be if you added 200 more kids there?? That's what KO is experiencing now. By the time HS#5 is ready, even with the district's 700 seat addition, KO will STILL be overcapacity by over 200 students. That is pathetic planning! Keep in mind that this projection is using low growth numbers. I would bet a lot that we will be above the low growth numbers in that part of the district - it will be a nightmare. No one is even talking about KC - which is sad. They aren't projected to receive any relief. Great for them, they have a nice, new school (it is pretty!), but with a capacity of 3,015, by the time they construct HS#6, which is the one set to give them relief, it will be 2016 or later, and their enrollment will be over 3,687 - again with those low growth numbers that are horribly inadequate. Finally, I'll go back to KHS. I graduated from there. I loved my school. If you tear down the main building, that IS the history, you may as well move the school. There's nothing special about that land. That is NOT where the original KHS was (which they've also torn down, no attempt to renovate that either). KHS is expected to be complete in 2011 (which I think is in no way possible) with a capacity of 3,500. Those at KHS feel they are overcrowded while they are under capacity now by 200 - how will you feel going back to your semi-new school being OVER capacity? Yes, with the low growth numbers, KHS will go to their semi-new school a whopping 40 students over capacity. Not much, but the number just gets bigger each year.

I do think KHS needs a lot of work. I don't feel that "patching" is really the best option, but when you have serious overcrowding, it is the best option for now. Address our needs, then in the next bond (that I've heard has already been pushed to 3 years from now), rebuild parts of KHS, IF we've stayed in this low growth projection they are so confident of and don't need to address capacity issues. I can say that I would much rather my children go to KHS in it's current form (that I have recently seen) than go to KO with it's overcapacity problems!

Some problems there. If KHS is under capacity then why are there portable buildings all over its campus?

Secondly, yes the land is special. It's been on that site for almost fifty years, and the town has grown up around it. There are historical markers there. It's a focal point.

Did they really tear down the original KHS? I thought it was behind the district offices.

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I agree. The original plan looks OK, but if they put this revised plan on a ballot, I'll be voting no and encouraging everyone I know to do the same. The overcrowding at Klein Oak HS and Klein Collins HS are not addressed (adequately or at all!) in the revised plan. Do the board and central administration think they have only one high school that really matters in the whole district?

And, as someone else said above, in this economy, why is this board asking for money that won't solve the problems they already have, now or in the future. Check out the Overcrowding section at http://www.kleinforall.com.

Also - the whole idea of putting laptops in the hands of all high school students is awful. The laptops themselves will end up being the least of their problems. Think of all the firewall and filter problems, the hardware issues that will arise in the central server, the parents who will have to pay for repairs that aren't always caused by their own student(s), and on and on. These two articles are very interesting and should be read closely by all decision makers:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/04/educatio...amp;oref=slogin

and

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...0803271_pf.html

It would be much better to make data available to parents by means of the data management program (attendance, grades, etc.) which the district already has. I think it's called Chancery. This would be similar to the program(s) that Cy-Fair ISD, Humble ISD, Tomball ISD, and Spring ISD have -- enabling parents to keep better track of their children's/students' attendance and grades as often as they wish instead of having to wait around for progress reports and report cards.

Passing the bond as currently revised would make as much sense as our taxes that go to METRO to pay for buses and trains we cannot make use of.

I'll be voting NO!

I understand voting no on the Bond it has some things in it that I take issue with as well. But I would not associate with the Klein for all group. They are a petty self appointed know it all group out of Gleannloch that is upset about the KHS rebuild. I disagree with the KHS rebuild too but the tactics this group is pulling is unprofessional and pathetic. Anyone who is in their email circle might as well forget any credibility with the KISD Admin or the KISD Board from now on. It is a shame since those of us who still disagree with the bond, but still live in the same neighborhood as them will have to live with the damage they are causing for the rest of the Gleannloch residents.

If you want accurate information abouthte Bond not one small groups opinion just go tothe KISD website.

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I understand voting no on the Bond it has some things in it that I take issue with as well. But I would not associate with the Klein for all group. They are a petty self appointed know it all group out of Gleannloch that is upset about the KHS rebuild. I disagree with the KHS rebuild too but the tactics this group is pulling is unprofessional and pathetic. Anyone who is in their email circle might as well forget any credibility with the KISD Admin or the KISD Board from now on. It is a shame since those of us who still disagree with the bond, but still live in the same neighborhood as them will have to live with the damage they are causing for the rest of the Gleannloch residents.

If you want accurate information abouthte Bond not one small groups opinion just go tothe KISD website.

What have they done that's unprofessional and pathetic?

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