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Klein ISD Bond Plan 2008


Chris

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Sometimes it's cheaper to rebuild a school than renavate it

And besides a part of the ceiling collapsed in the Main Building today

Klein Oak is expected to grow and it is currently overcrowed.

Again... Maintenance. When my ceiling collapsed due to a water heater malfunction I had the ceiling repaired, I did not tear down my house. When wood rots you replace it, when the house needs paint you paint it and so on. Again, I would imagine it much less expensive to repair the problems than to raze the structures. It seems to me that Klein would prefer to tear down the older structures to make way for new, We'd all like new! I'd like a lot of new things, I can think of 50 things I'd like to do to my house but need to budget for, it's certainly alot easier to spend other peoples money. Take care of what you have and you won't need to hit the taxpayers up every 3 and a half years. As I said before the increased tax assessments over the last 2 years on the homes in Klein should be put to better use and to come to the taxpayers less than 4 years after the last bond is a slap in the face... as well as the wallet.

The new home builders should be assessed impact fees which are passed along to the buyer in the purchase price, this would lessen the burden of existing homeowners who are already paying high taxes.

I do not feel the district has been wise at all times with it's spending or it's decisions.

Edited by ChampionsAdam
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Why would Klein Oak need additions?

The only reason Klein Oak would need additions is because instead of building two new high schools, now the plan is to build only one new high school and do a re-build for Klein High, so the bond committee has proposed adding a "wing" onto Klein Oak to handle the incoming population. Brilliant? Yeah, not so much...

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I've just learned that the location of Elementary School #26 will be located directly behind Krimmel Intermediate School. The district already owned the land which was originally planned for a new Multi-Purpose Stadium. I think the school will be connected to the Klein Meadows Subdivision. The Architectural and Siteplans are already drawn up.

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Really? With Benignus Elementary already directly across the street from Krimmel? Are you sure? Why in the world would the district place two elementary schools THAT close to each other? Why not just add on to Benignus? Weird...

Yeah I'm sure, I saw the floorplans and siteplan. Kaiser and Greenwood Forest Elementary Schools are on each side of Klein Forest High School. Due to the growth in the FM 2920 area, It won't be a problem at all, Elem. School #26 might be full at 2 years of existance.

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These are more pictures of Frank and Benignus Elementary Schools. Elementary Schools #26-27 will be an exact repeat design with minor changes like adding Billingual Classes in each pod and eliminating 2 outdoor Courtyards. I put some Krimmel Pictures in here also. Also in the newer schools Klein ISD uses Ceramic Tile instaed of Terrazzo Flooring in wet areas.

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Benignus Elementary School

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Frank Elementary School Cafeteria-Inside

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Frank Elementary Gym

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Frank Elementary Pod Courtyard

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Frank Elementary Gym-Inside

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Frank Elementary Main Entrance-Bell Tower

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Benignus Elementary School

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Frank Elementary School

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Benignus Elementary School

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Krimmel Intermediate School

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Krimmel Intermediate Long View

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Krimmel Intermediate Main Entrance

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Krimmel Intermediate Library-Cafeteria

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That "pod courtyard" looks like something from a prison movie, and a "bell tower", what the heck? Very odd.

I still don't get that a new elementary will be built behind Krimmel. Within a stone's throw of there, you have Schultz Elementary, Metzler Elementary, Northampton Elementary, Roth Elementary and Benignus Elementary. Within the same area, you have Hildebrandt Intermediate and that's it for middle schools, and Klein Oak is it for high schools. What gives? Is there only "growth" in this area at the elementary school level?

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That "pod courtyard" looks like something from a prison movie, and a "bell tower", what the heck? Very odd.

I still don't get that a new elementary will be built behind Krimmel. Within a stone's throw of there, you have Schultz Elementary, Metzler Elementary, Northampton Elementary, Roth Elementary and Benignus Elementary. Within the same area, you have Hildebrandt Intermediate and that's it for middle schools, and Klein Oak is it for high schools. What gives? Is there only "growth" in this area at the elementary school level?

It's called a Bell Tower because ther's a bell inside of it/Main Entrance.

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No kidding, but my point was "Do we really need to have bell towers at elementary or any level schools?" Chris, I think one time you said you were a student at Klein Collins, are you still? How do happen to get information such as site plans for future schools, when that information has not yet been released to the community by Klein ISD? Do you have any ambitions to run for the school board one day yourself?

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No kidding, but my point was "Do we really need to have bell towers at elementary or any level schools?" Chris, I think one time you said you were a student at Klein Collins, are you still? How do happen to get information such as site plans for future schools, when that information has not yet been released to the community by Klein ISD? Do you have any ambitions to run for the school board one day yourself?

Bell towers are just Architectural Elements that the architect uses in the building design? Yes, I am still a student at Klein Collins High School. The board releases information before the board meetings, and I do intend on becomming a Klein ISD Board Member one day.

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I have already written to bond08@kleinisd.net, Dr. Cain, and all board members that I will be voting NO on this bond proposal unless the district goes back to the original proposal - building high schools #5 and #6 and a major remodel (not a raze and rebuild) of Klein High School. I know many others who are writing emails stating the same thing.

We'll need to watch this thing closely!

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Part of the argument for rebuilding Klein High is that the dilapidated main building is only a one-story on an overcrowded campus. Make it two stories and then you don't have to cram portable buildings everywhere.

Also, the hallways, main offices, bathrooms, etc. are simply not adequate for a school that size. Remember that when this was built it was a 2A school.

I'll be sorry to see the Annex go; that was my junior high (Kleb).

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Part of the argument for rebuilding Klein High is that the dilapidated main building is only a one-story on an overcrowded campus. Make it two stories and then you don't have to cram portable buildings everywhere.

Also, the hallways, main offices, bathrooms, etc. are simply not adequate for a school that size. Remember that when this was built it was a 2A school.

I'll be sorry to see the Annex go; that was my junior high (Kleb).

I hear you, H-Town Man, and some of the proposals that were offered by community members did say that since it was generally agreed upon that while the current Klein High site may have been adequate for a 2-A school, it no longer is.

Issues of security, dilapidated buildings, undersized parking lot and surrounded by too many businesses all supported a suggestion to go back to the original bond proposal plan of building two new high schools. When that was done, then bulldoze Klein High, and increase the size of Klein Memorial Stadium, since a stadium at that site would be a better fit, and would only require renovation rather than new "Berry Center" style construction.

But, somehow, the sentimentality from the Klein High community members on the bond committee overruled that suggestion, and have now decided to form a PAC to make sure that Klein High gets rebuilt on that exact site. Too bad, because there are better areas available within the Klein ISD to build a great high school rather than there.

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I hear you, H-Town Man, and some of the proposals that were offered by community members did say that since it was generally agreed upon that while the current Klein High site may have been adequate for a 2-A school, it no longer is.

Issues of security, dilapidated buildings, undersized parking lot and surrounded by too many businesses all supported a suggestion to go back to the original bond proposal plan of building two new high schools. When that was done, then bulldoze Klein High, and increase the size of Klein Memorial Stadium, since a stadium at that site would be a better fit, and would only require renovation rather than new "Berry Center" style construction.

But, somehow, the sentimentality from the Klein High community members on the bond committee overruled that suggestion, and have now decided to form a PAC to make sure that Klein High gets rebuilt on that exact site. Too bad, because there are better areas available within the Klein ISD to build a great high school rather than there.

I have to agree with the sentimentality of the community... Klein High has been at that spot for 45 years and does not need to go anywhere. Plus at least half the buildings there are very recent and state of the art... silly to waste those, and silly to waste a great campus with unique history and charm.

All the school really needs is a new main building that is in line with current conditions at other high schools. That campus is important to the history and identity of the area in ways that transcend its role in educating students... no way it should be lost.

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Sure, that makes sense enough.

But, at this time, it doesn't make any sense to have Klein call for a $640 million dollar bond election that will raise the average homeowner's tax bill $350.00 a year, and do little to alleviate the massive overcrowding occurring at most of the Klein campuses.

The current joke is "Which schools in Klein ISD DON'T have trailers?"

So, I think taking that into consideration, that the current "master plan" to re-build Klein High should be back-burnered and more pressing issues (i.e. overcrowding) be addressed with the bond money instead.

Then, once the "needs" of the district are taken care of, then the "wants" can be presented for a bond election.

If the Klein High re-build stays on the bond proposal, I will voting issuing a NO vote.

Edited by pineda
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I couldn't agree more with you, Mr. Football, which I why I just don't understand why the bond committee members took the original plan that called for the building of two new high schools and changed it into this one, which calls for a re-build of Klein High and just a wing added onto Klein Oak.

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Some schools have more trailers than others.

We can't just build new high schools and not renew the ones we already have. When a school gets old enough, it needs to be upgraded. But sometimes it is cheaper in the long run to build a new building than to keep rehabbing the one you already have.

It's like that old 1978 Plymouth your mom has. You rebuilt the engine a few years back. You've done serious work on the transmission. Now the carpet is tattered, the seatcushions have holes, and the headliner is hanging down.

Do you keep pouring more and more money into that Plymouth to keep it running, or at some point do you buy mom a new car?

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Ha-ha, great analogy there! Here's another one:

Your mom's car is definitely a clunker, and as a good son, you should do the right thing and buy your mom that new car!

But, you're forgetting about your poor dad, whose old van is beat and old as well, AND he has the added burden of hauling around all your brothers and sisters in that old van, which everyone readily agrees is way too overcrowded.

Wow! What to do? You only have so much money to spend here, but because they're both dear family members, whom you love equally, what's a good son like you supposed to do?

Well, why not fix up dear old mom's car with a little good old fashioned maintenance, and stop neglecting her so much. Why not buy new cars for your brothers and sisters who have all their sons and daughters moving in with them, and keep fixing up and keeping in good repair dad's old van.

That way, mom and dad still have something to drive, even though it's not as new and expensive as you would have loved for them to both have, because you're such a good son and mean to do well by them, but after all, you're not exactly made of money, and these days, finances have to be thoroughly scrutinized, and you just can't do everything you'd like to.

Fix mom's car up, after all, it still runs just fine. (this would be Klein High)

Fix dad's car up, he deserves the same amount of attention and love mom gets. (this would be Klein Oak & Klein Forest)

Buy your brother and sister new cars, after all, you promised you would do exactly that 4 years ago. (this would be the two new high schools promised from the last bond election and recommended by the PASA report over six years ago.)

Then maybe in a few years down the road, when you're flush with money from the lottery you won, you can splurge and buy new cars for mom and dad, because, hey, that's just the kind of good son any mom and dad would be proud of!

Edited by pineda
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Ha-ha, great analogy there! Here's another one:

Your mom's car is definitely a clunker, and as a good son, you should do the right thing and buy your mom that new car!

But, you're forgetting about your poor dad, whose old van is beat and old as well, AND he has the added burden of hauling around all your brothers and sisters in that old van, which everyone readily agrees is way too overcrowded.

Wow! What to do? You only have so much money to spend here, but because they're both dear family members, whom you love equally, what's a good son like you supposed to do?

Well, why not fix up dear old mom's car with a little good old fashioned maintenance, and stop neglecting her so much. Why not buy new cars for your brothers and sisters who have all their sons and daughters moving in with them, and keep fixing up and keeping in good repair dad's old van.

That way, mom and dad still have something to drive, even though it's not as new and expensive as you would have loved for them to both have, because you're such a good son and mean to do well by them, but after all, you're not exactly made of money, and these days, finances have to be thoroughly scrutinized, and you just can't do everything you'd like to.

Fix mom's car up, after all, it still runs just fine. (this would be Klein High)

Fix dad's car up, he deserves the same amount of attention and love mom gets. (this would be Klein Oak & Klein Forest)

Buy your brother and sister new cars, after all, you promised you would do exactly that 4 years ago. (this would be the two new high schools promised from the last bond election and recommended by the PASA report over six years ago.)

Then maybe in a few years down the road, when you're flush with money from the lottery you won, you can splurge and buy new cars for mom and dad, because, hey, that's just the kind of good son any mom and dad would be proud of!

Couple problems there... Klein Oak and Klein Forest are both much more recent and modern in construction than Klein High. Nor do they have the overcrowding problems that Klein High does. Have you ever actually been inside Klein High, pineda? Compare the hallways, the bathrooms, the offices, the ceiling heights, etc. in the main building to the ones in Klein Oak.

"Fix dad's car up, he deserves the same amount of attention and love mom gets."

No way you can call that the same situation.

Well, why not fix up dear old mom's car with a little good old fashioned maintenance, and stop neglecting her so much.

That's what we've been doing for 45 years. At some point, it's more cost effective to build something new than to keep pouring money into something outdated and substandard.

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Couple problems there... Klein Oak and Klein Forest are both much more recent and modern in construction than Klein High. Nor do they have the overcrowding problems that Klein High does. Have you ever actually been inside Klein High, pineda? Compare the hallways, the bathrooms, the offices, the ceiling heights, etc. in the main building to the ones in Klein Oak.

"Fix dad's car up, he deserves the same amount of attention and love mom gets."

No way you can call that the same situation.

Definitely have been inside all four schools a lot over the last four years. Klein, Klein Forest and Klein Oak all are showing wear, and could use some sprucing up. Here's the part I just can't agree with:

The original proposal was to build two new high schools, to accomodate the growth right now, in the district.

The plan changed to eliminate two new high schools, and build a new school for Klein High and add a wing onto already overcrowded Klein Oak, bringing that population of students at Oak up to 5,000 students. I feel that the needs of the students at the other schools, Klein Oak, Klein Forest and Klein Collins, who are already attending class in overcrowded situations, are being overlooked, so that Klein High can get a new school.

My request is that the school district deal with the most pressing issue of overcrowding FIRST, with the bond being proposed, then with the NEXT bond proposal four years from now, the Klein High re-build can be better addressed. The overcrowding at the high school level is of more immediate concern than the aging maintenance issues of Klein High, and need to be immediately addressed now.

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I can't agree that the situation at Klein's main building is comparable to that of Klein Oak or Klein Forest. The hallways there are less than half the size of the ones at Klein Oak, the classroom lighting is dim, the main offices are cramped, the ceilings are low, and I can only imagine how much worse shape the pipes, wires, etc. are, considering that they are almost twenty years older.

Won't there still be overcrowding issues four years from now? Klein seemed ancient and out of date when I was there over ten years ago. They were talking about rebuilding it then, but then it got put off (I guess for Klein Collins). It's always easy to just put it off...

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I think the best alternative for Klein ISD to do at this point is to first put the 2nd High School #6 back on the Bond, and just do a major remodel and update to Klein High School. Then they need to build High School #5 and open it for the students who are supposed to be zoned there only. While Klein High School is being remodeled, Students can have class in T-Buildings and have Lunches held in the Annex Building. I don't think adding a new wing to Klein Oak will be very wise because when HS#6 opens, it's going to tke a big chunk of KOHS's Enrollment not to mention taking Gleannloch Farms and a couple other subdivisions when HS #5 opens.

The way Klein Collins High School is growing, There might need to be a new Wing added to it. There is literally no more room to add anymore T-Building at KCHS. We already have about 14 lined up on the side of the school now. Klein Collins will not be relieved until the next Bond Program which could be up to 5 years from now. Klein Collins is the largest and newest high school in Klein ISD and can only hold 3,131 students to be exact, and there's about 3,260 almost 3,300 students in 113 classrooms and 28 T-Building Classrooms.

Let's just face the facts, All 4 KISD High Schools are facing Overcrowding Issues. They can't all be delt with at one time.

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I think the best alternative for Klein ISD to do at this point is to first put the 2nd High School #6 back on the Bond, and just do a major remodel and update to Klein High School. Then they need to build High School #5 and open it for the students who are supposed to be zoned there only. While Klein High School is being remodeled, Students can have class in T-Buildings and have Lunches held in the Annex Building.

I just don't think it makes sense to keep updating when you have a one story building as your main building in a 5A high school. You can repaint the walls, but you still have to deal with the fact that hallways built for a school of 600 or 700 are now the main arteries in a school of over 3,000. I remember just being pressed into a mob as I walked down those hallways... can't imagine how bad it is now.

I definitely sympathize with the other high schools that are as overcrowded as Klein (though with larger hallways and bathrooms). Maybe we just need to come to grips with the fact that we need to spend more money.

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I just don't think it makes sense to keep updating when you have a one story building as your main building in a 5A high school. You can repaint the walls, but you still have to deal with the fact that hallways built for a school of 600 or 700 are now the main arteries in a school of over 3,000. I remember just being pressed into a mob as I walked down those hallways... can't imagine how bad it is now.

I definitely sympathize with the other high schools that are as overcrowded as Klein (though with larger hallways and bathrooms). Maybe we just need to come to grips with the fact that we need to spend more money.

I actually meant that Klein could do a major remodel not update. While this is taking place, Place Students in T-Buildings. 4 Elementary Schools had to do it when their school was full of mold and had to be rebricked. They didn't move these kids to Frank and Benignus just cause they were new and unused.

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"Which schools in Klein ISD DON'T have trailers?"

Krahn Doesn't.

T-Buildings

Half of my classes are in T-Buildings I'm tired of them. Why not move us to the other schools.

I can only imagine how much worse shape the pipes

Thats Why parts of ceilings collapsed in 3 Restrooms.

the bathrooms

You mean Bathrooms without stall doors?

Edited by klein
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I just don't think it makes sense to keep updating when you have a one story building as your main building in a 5A high school. You can repaint the walls, but you still have to deal with the fact that hallways built for a school of 600 or 700 are now the main arteries in a school of over 3,000. I remember just being pressed into a mob as I walked down those hallways... can't imagine how bad it is now.

I definitely sympathize with the other high schools that are as overcrowded as Klein (though with larger hallways and bathrooms). Maybe we just need to come to grips with the fact that we need to spend more money.

That sums it up :P

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I'm not sure where some of you are getting your info saying that KHS is more overcrowded than other high schools. Ok - it might be more overcrowded than KF (but I'd bet they'd argue that one).

KHS's capacity is stated to be 3,462 and their 2007 enrollment was 3,279 - making them UNDER capacity by almost 200.

KO's capacity is stated to be 2,761 and their 2007 enrollment was 3,163 - putting them OVER capacity by 400.

KC's capacity is stated to be 3,015 and their 2007 enrollment was 3,204 - puttime the OVER capacity by almost 200.

KISD does all schools a great injustice w/their capacity numbers. They get numbers by counting the available rooms and figuring the maximum each room can hold, and then you get capacity. Although many classes are full (some well over), not every class can be used to capacity, therefore those numbers are way off. Can you imagine how overcrowded KHS would be if you added 200 more kids there?? That's what KO is experiencing now. By the time HS#5 is ready, even with the district's 700 seat addition, KO will STILL be overcapacity by over 200 students. That is pathetic planning! Keep in mind that this projection is using low growth numbers. I would bet a lot that we will be above the low growth numbers in that part of the district - it will be a nightmare. No one is even talking about KC - which is sad. They aren't projected to receive any relief. Great for them, they have a nice, new school (it is pretty!), but with a capacity of 3,015, by the time they construct HS#6, which is the one set to give them relief, it will be 2016 or later, and their enrollment will be over 3,687 - again with those low growth numbers that are horribly inadequate. Finally, I'll go back to KHS. I graduated from there. I loved my school. If you tear down the main building, that IS the history, you may as well move the school. There's nothing special about that land. That is NOT where the original KHS was (which they've also torn down, no attempt to renovate that either). KHS is expected to be complete in 2011 (which I think is in no way possible) with a capacity of 3,500. Those at KHS feel they are overcrowded while they are under capacity now by 200 - how will you feel going back to your semi-new school being OVER capacity? Yes, with the low growth numbers, KHS will go to their semi-new school a whopping 40 students over capacity. Not much, but the number just gets bigger each year.

I do think KHS needs a lot of work. I don't feel that "patching" is really the best option, but when you have serious overcrowding, it is the best option for now. Address our needs, then in the next bond (that I've heard has already been pushed to 3 years from now), rebuild parts of KHS, IF we've stayed in this low growth projection they are so confident of and don't need to address capacity issues. I can say that I would much rather my children go to KHS in it's current form (that I have recently seen) than go to KO with it's overcapacity problems!

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Good post. I've heard others in the area say that they do not care to spend upwards of $150 million to re-build Klein High at this time, but they are entertaining the idea of a "Berry Center" type stadium to be built with bond money.

BTW, I drove out to Portofino Center and checked out the new Woodlands area stadium about a month ago. The huge building being built next door to the football stadium is not a basketball stadium, but a natatorium instead. The Woodlands area has a very big following when it comes to swimming, I would imagine.

But, yeah, if the bond committee doesn't pull the Klein High re-build out of the proposal, I will vote no to the whole thing.

I agree. The original plan looks OK, but if they put this revised plan on a ballot, I'll be voting no and encouraging everyone I know to do the same. The overcrowding at Klein Oak HS and Klein Collins HS are not addressed (adequately or at all!) in the revised plan. Do the board and central administration think they have only one high school that really matters in the whole district?

And, as someone else said above, in this economy, why is this board asking for money that won't solve the problems they already have, now or in the future. Check out the Overcrowding section at http://www.kleinforall.com.

Also - the whole idea of putting laptops in the hands of all high school students is awful. The laptops themselves will end up being the least of their problems. Think of all the firewall and filter problems, the hardware issues that will arise in the central server, the parents who will have to pay for repairs that aren't always caused by their own student(s), and on and on. These two articles are very interesting and should be read closely by all decision makers:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/04/educatio...amp;oref=slogin

and

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...0803271_pf.html

It would be much better to make data available to parents by means of the data management program (attendance, grades, etc.) which the district already has. I think it's called Chancery. This would be similar to the program(s) that Cy-Fair ISD, Humble ISD, Tomball ISD, and Spring ISD have -- enabling parents to keep better track of their children's/students' attendance and grades as often as they wish instead of having to wait around for progress reports and report cards.

Passing the bond as currently revised would make as much sense as our taxes that go to METRO to pay for buses and trains we cannot make use of.

I'll be voting NO!

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I'm not sure where some of you are getting your info saying that KHS is more overcrowded than other high schools. Ok - it might be more overcrowded than KF (but I'd bet they'd argue that one).

KHS's capacity is stated to be 3,462 and their 2007 enrollment was 3,279 - making them UNDER capacity by almost 200.

KO's capacity is stated to be 2,761 and their 2007 enrollment was 3,163 - putting them OVER capacity by 400.

KC's capacity is stated to be 3,015 and their 2007 enrollment was 3,204 - puttime the OVER capacity by almost 200.

KISD does all schools a great injustice w/their capacity numbers. They get numbers by counting the available rooms and figuring the maximum each room can hold, and then you get capacity. Although many classes are full (some well over), not every class can be used to capacity, therefore those numbers are way off. Can you imagine how overcrowded KHS would be if you added 200 more kids there?? That's what KO is experiencing now. By the time HS#5 is ready, even with the district's 700 seat addition, KO will STILL be overcapacity by over 200 students. That is pathetic planning! Keep in mind that this projection is using low growth numbers. I would bet a lot that we will be above the low growth numbers in that part of the district - it will be a nightmare. No one is even talking about KC - which is sad. They aren't projected to receive any relief. Great for them, they have a nice, new school (it is pretty!), but with a capacity of 3,015, by the time they construct HS#6, which is the one set to give them relief, it will be 2016 or later, and their enrollment will be over 3,687 - again with those low growth numbers that are horribly inadequate. Finally, I'll go back to KHS. I graduated from there. I loved my school. If you tear down the main building, that IS the history, you may as well move the school. There's nothing special about that land. That is NOT where the original KHS was (which they've also torn down, no attempt to renovate that either). KHS is expected to be complete in 2011 (which I think is in no way possible) with a capacity of 3,500. Those at KHS feel they are overcrowded while they are under capacity now by 200 - how will you feel going back to your semi-new school being OVER capacity? Yes, with the low growth numbers, KHS will go to their semi-new school a whopping 40 students over capacity. Not much, but the number just gets bigger each year.

I do think KHS needs a lot of work. I don't feel that "patching" is really the best option, but when you have serious overcrowding, it is the best option for now. Address our needs, then in the next bond (that I've heard has already been pushed to 3 years from now), rebuild parts of KHS, IF we've stayed in this low growth projection they are so confident of and don't need to address capacity issues. I can say that I would much rather my children go to KHS in it's current form (that I have recently seen) than go to KO with it's overcapacity problems!

Some problems there. If KHS is under capacity then why are there portable buildings all over its campus?

Secondly, yes the land is special. It's been on that site for almost fifty years, and the town has grown up around it. There are historical markers there. It's a focal point.

Did they really tear down the original KHS? I thought it was behind the district offices.

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I agree. The original plan looks OK, but if they put this revised plan on a ballot, I'll be voting no and encouraging everyone I know to do the same. The overcrowding at Klein Oak HS and Klein Collins HS are not addressed (adequately or at all!) in the revised plan. Do the board and central administration think they have only one high school that really matters in the whole district?

And, as someone else said above, in this economy, why is this board asking for money that won't solve the problems they already have, now or in the future. Check out the Overcrowding section at http://www.kleinforall.com.

Also - the whole idea of putting laptops in the hands of all high school students is awful. The laptops themselves will end up being the least of their problems. Think of all the firewall and filter problems, the hardware issues that will arise in the central server, the parents who will have to pay for repairs that aren't always caused by their own student(s), and on and on. These two articles are very interesting and should be read closely by all decision makers:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/04/educatio...amp;oref=slogin

and

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...0803271_pf.html

It would be much better to make data available to parents by means of the data management program (attendance, grades, etc.) which the district already has. I think it's called Chancery. This would be similar to the program(s) that Cy-Fair ISD, Humble ISD, Tomball ISD, and Spring ISD have -- enabling parents to keep better track of their children's/students' attendance and grades as often as they wish instead of having to wait around for progress reports and report cards.

Passing the bond as currently revised would make as much sense as our taxes that go to METRO to pay for buses and trains we cannot make use of.

I'll be voting NO!

I understand voting no on the Bond it has some things in it that I take issue with as well. But I would not associate with the Klein for all group. They are a petty self appointed know it all group out of Gleannloch that is upset about the KHS rebuild. I disagree with the KHS rebuild too but the tactics this group is pulling is unprofessional and pathetic. Anyone who is in their email circle might as well forget any credibility with the KISD Admin or the KISD Board from now on. It is a shame since those of us who still disagree with the bond, but still live in the same neighborhood as them will have to live with the damage they are causing for the rest of the Gleannloch residents.

If you want accurate information abouthte Bond not one small groups opinion just go tothe KISD website.

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I understand voting no on the Bond it has some things in it that I take issue with as well. But I would not associate with the Klein for all group. They are a petty self appointed know it all group out of Gleannloch that is upset about the KHS rebuild. I disagree with the KHS rebuild too but the tactics this group is pulling is unprofessional and pathetic. Anyone who is in their email circle might as well forget any credibility with the KISD Admin or the KISD Board from now on. It is a shame since those of us who still disagree with the bond, but still live in the same neighborhood as them will have to live with the damage they are causing for the rest of the Gleannloch residents.

If you want accurate information abouthte Bond not one small groups opinion just go tothe KISD website.

What have they done that's unprofessional and pathetic?

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Personally, I don't care for the idea of spending $38 million dollars for $1,400 laptops for every high school student. I would suspect that most of the students in Klein ISD have access to PC's in their homes already. I don't feel that every homeowner in Klein needs or desires to pay for this... myself included.

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What have they done that's unprofessional and pathetic?

Let's see, spreading non factual information. Circulating inappropriate emails to the District, Board members, and residents. Setting up a website and implying that it fact when it is more opinion, putting ads in the paper with the web address encouraging people to vote no, sending the Superintendent an email about tat ad threatening him there is more to come if he does not put together a bond that this group wants. These people have no idea what they are looking at as far as the issues at KHS, or a bond for that matter. Are they engineers, architects, or construction managers? How about contacting a lawyer to talk about sueing the District!!!! Over what, not getting their way? Get a clue people!!!

This is "coalition" was started by a small group in Gleannloch that has an elitist attitude and could care less about anybody that lives outside their neighborhood until they want something from you, like your vote. They don't really care about the tax increase, or overcrowding, all they care about is that they want their new High School when it is done and don't want it after it is used by the KHS crowd. Oh and let's not forget that they want the right neighborhoods at that school, but I guess we will wait until the zoning issue comes up to see that. These are small minded people that want is best for them, and them alone, not the District as a whole. The Noveau Riche in Gleannloch are destroying any credibility for the neighborhood for any issues that may arise in the future.

I have issue with the bond as well and don't agree withthe KHS numbers, but this group is so cluless they are making me want to vote yes, and I am not alone inthat thinking. They have no idea how school politics work, construction, bonds, or really anything that is associated with education.

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Let's see, spreading non factual information. Circulating inappropriate emails to the District, Board members, and residents. Setting up a website and implying that it fact when it is more opinion, putting ads in the paper with the web address encouraging people to vote no, sending the Superintendent an email about tat ad threatening him there is more to come if he does not put together a bond that this group wants. These people have no idea what they are looking at as far as the issues at KHS, or a bond for that matter. Are they engineers, architects, or construction managers? How about contacting a lawyer to talk about sueing the District!!!! Over what, not getting their way? Get a clue people!!!

This is "coalition" was started by a small group in Gleannloch that has an elitist attitude and could care less about anybody that lives outside their neighborhood until they want something from you, like your vote. They don't really care about the tax increase, or overcrowding, all they care about is that they want their new High School when it is done and don't want it after it is used by the KHS crowd. Oh and let's not forget that they want the right neighborhoods at that school, but I guess we will wait until the zoning issue comes up to see that. These are small minded people that want is best for them, and them alone, not the District as a whole. The Noveau Riche in Gleannloch are destroying any credibility for the neighborhood for any issues that may arise in the future.

I have issue with the bond as well and don't agree withthe KHS numbers, but this group is so cluless they are making me want to vote yes, and I am not alone inthat thinking. They have no idea how school politics work, construction, bonds, or really anything that is associated with education.

I've reviewed the Web site and they are pushing for the overcrowding issue to be dealt with first before rebuilding KHS. And the numbers are identical to those from the Klein ISD Web site. What, exactly, is nonfactual? I don't have kids at any high school. I'm just trying to gather information. I don't see any factual inaccuracies that you're talking about.

I guess I'm trying to understand where all of your dislike is coming from. I don't have insight into any threats against the Superintendent. Maybe you have an inside scoop at the district.

BTW - I just read that the group that supports the bond actually started the Klein Bond Political Action Committee. What's the advantage of forming such a group? I hate to see all of the fighting when we all want what's best for the kids of the community.

Edited by zyw
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Personally, I don't care for the idea of spending $38 million dollars for $1,400 laptops for every high school student. I would suspect that most of the students in Klein ISD have access to PC's in their homes already. I don't feel that every homeowner in Klein needs or desires to pay for this... myself included.

What all of you are missing is that the Klein ISD Board of Trustees will vote for what is best for ALL OF OUR CHILDREN. I know what the Klein For All people really mean by "all" ... as in "all of the children North of 1960." Where was your outrage four years ago during the 04 Bond Election when people in Greenwood Forest were fighting to get better solutions in the South end of the district? Inevitably, somone is not going to get what they want -- guess, what -- It's your turn to NOT GET WHAT YOU WANT...that's what you call Divine Justice. Yes, I wish it wasn't necessary to rebuild Klein High... I wish we could all travel back in time and do a better job maintaining that facility .. but it is what it is.. right now and it really sounds like it's a lawsuit waiting to happen if you don't get the students out of there. But there I go again, talking about "children...." I know that's a lame idea when we're talking about a Bond issue .. because we're all consumed about getting ours.

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What all of you are missing is that the Klein ISD Board of Trustees will vote for what is best for ALL OF OUR CHILDREN. I know what the Klein For All people really mean by "all" ... as in "all of the children North of 1960." Where was your outrage four years ago during the 04 Bond Election when people in Greenwood Forest were fighting to get better solutions in the South end of the district? Inevitably, somone is not going to get what they want -- guess, what -- It's your turn to NOT GET WHAT YOU WANT...that's what you call Divine Justice. Yes, I wish it wasn't necessary to rebuild Klein High... I wish we could all travel back in time and do a better job maintaining that facility .. but it is what it is.. right now and it really sounds like it's a lawsuit waiting to happen if you don't get the students out of there. But there I go again, talking about "children...." I know that's a lame idea when we're talking about a Bond issue .. because we're all consumed about getting ours.

Why can't they all get what they need? I mean I've looked at the data from Klein ISD and it looks like if they spend the money to build two new high schools you would fix all of problems. All of the KHS students could go to one of the new schools (don't use the old KHS any more) and there would be enough space for all of the kids the administration is projecting. It would be done by 2010 and only require one rezoning. It definately sounds like they didn't do enough back in 2004, I just don't understand why take on a long project like rebuilding instead of just using new facilities.

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Hello,

My name is Rich Talaber and I am one of the self appointed petty people who started Klein For All. We started this organization after attending the steering committee meetings, board meetings, walking through Klein High School, and reading every single report that is out there. Let me tell you sir, it is not a pretty picture. All of the data that I just mentioned, the capacity information and enrollment projections from Population & Survey Analysts was placed into our database. All the numbers we report are not our opinion, but rather, the opinion of a company that has been in business for over 23 years doing this kind of research for our district and many others. I encourage you to visit www.pasademographics.com. You will find links to all of their research on www.kleinforall.com under the documents link.

We also researched the tax rates, tax base, growth rates, and other information at the Texas Education Agency Website and simply put their data up into a spreadsheet that compares our district's growth and spending with other districts that are nearby and have very similar, or much greater, growth. The links to this data is also provided on the website.

We not only reviewed the Bond Proposal, but every Facility Assessment conducted and made that data available on the website as well. This information was not generally available and can only be obtained in one of two ways. Go to www.kleinforall.com and click on the documents link and you will find them there or you can drive to 7200 Spring Cypress Road, ask for Judy Rimato and tell her you want a copy. Every single Facility Assessment was reviewed by our group and put into a database. All of this data is available through our website as well.

Everything on that web site is driven by the facts and information collected from these sources. If you take the time to research it yourself, you will find it to be entirely accurate and the only place where you can get all this data easily.

What have we done different? Our contention, based upon the facts, is that some areas of KISD are high growth and others are not. This is proven in a study by PASA where they compare Kindergarten enrollment to High School Enrollment. Areas in and around Klein High are deemed to be built out due to fact that there are less Kindergarten students than High Schoolers. Areas North of Spring Cypress and some areas to the south are still high growth areas and suffer from overcrowding conditions. We focused on the north side, not because that is where we live, but because Spring Cypress has been used by KISD as a zoning boundary for many years now. if you live on the North Side, you typically to to North schools and vice versa. yes, there are some exceptions.

On the North side of spring cypress, the vast majority of schools are overcrowded. South of Spring Cypress, the majority are underutilized. Re-zoning from North to South is something the district has never wanted to do, so the only way to solve the issue is to build schools.

If you look at the district numbers as a whole unit, it looks like there is no overcrowding. when you break it out by school, you see that 14 schools are well over capacity today. Most are in the north and some are in the south. So, is the district doing a good job? They have enough capacity and have had for years. You have to consider high growth vs no growth and when you do you will find than many more schools than are currently proposed, are actually needed. PASA recommended building 7 elementary schools on this bond election, 3 Intermediates and 2 high schools. KISD is recommending 3 elementary, 2 intermediate, and one high school. Why? The original bond proposal was well over $800M, that is why.

So what is the right thing to do? If we compromise and build 5 elementary, 2 intermediate and 2 high schools (one that Klein High can take over as their own), we need to spend $450M to do that. On top of that we have other things to pay for, like repairs, buses, and such that add up to another $125 M or so. But wait, we are not done yet. You have to add in the technology cost of $38M, rebuild of Klein Annex, a new multi purpose building, and so on.

The most money we could as for is around $850M by state law. The debt services portion of you tax bill is not allowed to exceed 50 cents. today it is 22 cents and it is projected to go up to 42 cents under the current proposal. If we rebuild Klein High where it sits today, it delays building schools because you dont sell all the bonds on day one. You sell 25% or so each year. You don't automatically have money to spend on everything right wasy. Additionally, the proposal to use the new high school as a layover spot delays the release of needed capacity to the district by another 2 years.

Sir, we have our fact straight. I encourage you to visit www.kleinforall.com and do the research that we have. We have made it easy for you. I also encourage you to execute the Build My Bond feature. You can select what you think the growth scenario will be, what acceptable overcrowding is, whether or not to rebuild buildings, etc. Push the button and it will estimate what the bond proposal will be in your opinion, not mine or any one else at KleinForAll. Please do this and send it to Dr. Cain. Many other people have done so already.

We recognize that our message has come across a little as us versus them and it was in response to the makeup of the steering committe. For each parent from the North Side, there were 5 or more from Klein High. That does not make it right and we are taking action to reach out to the Klein High folks. They have been neglected, their school is in disrepair and something needs to be done. Rebuilding on that location does not solve their problems though as a major gas pipeline running directly under the property prevents them from putting all the students under one roof and the busy intersection causes security and safety concerns. What is best for All of Klein is to give them a new school, somewhere else and build another high school at the same time. By 2011, we will have new capacity and KHS will have all their concerns alleviated. Everyone wins.

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My name is Rich Talaber and I am a member of Klein for All. I would like to apologize for the message coming across as you have indicated. Read my other entry and you will see that we have thoroughly researched the entire district. We only used the North side because Spring Cypress Rd (not 1960) is a known zoning boundary. What we have encouraged the district to do is to consider high growth areas differently from underutilized ones. That would include your area. Your schools are represented on our website and your over crowding is taken into consideration in all calculations. That is different from KISD who just looks at the district as one number and feels confident that they have the right capacity.

Please visit www.kleinforall.com and look at the data. Your schools are in there and we are fighting to get more capacity for you as well. The question of Klein High is a major issue simply because it takes money away from solving capacity issues and actually delays the release of needed capacity by two years. We believe that something needs to be done about Klein High, we are questioning the timing and the plan. Our recommendations are to either fix it and wait a few years until we have caught up with capacity or build 2 high schools at the same time, releasing new capacity in 2011, close down the current Klein High and move that student body and zone to that new building. Either option would be better for the district as a whole than the current plan. I say district as a whole because there are between 15,000 and 20,000 kids in over crowding conditions right now. If major portions of the bond allocation are directed to Klein High rebuild and Klein Annex rebuild in the early years, that leaves little money to build out new elementary and intermediate schools anywhere in the district. This big ticket item is why the building of elementary schools and intermediates was pushed back a year or more in the bond proposal.

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some more corrections. The $38M in technology only includes around $7M for the laptops. The rest is other technology across the district.

There are two sides to the school budget; Management & Operations and Debt Services. M&O is currently $1.04 per $100 in home value and is what is used to pay salaries, perform routine maintenance, supplies, etc. M&O taxes are limited by the state to $1.04, it was much higher prior to the state imposed limit. That is why our taxes are lower now. Not because of good stewardship. The debt services side is what the current Bond Proposal addresses and is for building new schools, major repairs and renovations, technology, district wide projects, etc. You know, the big ticket items. The state limits this to 50 cents. The current proposal puts us at 42 cents by 2012 and keeps us there until 2015. In 2012, we will need to have another Bond Election. We will only have 8 cents to work with for the first three years, money is going to be tight.

You can see all of this stuff on www.kleinforall.com.

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  • The title was changed to Klein ISD Bond Plan 2008

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