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Klein ISD Bond Plan 2008


Chris

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Look at this

KHS in 2002

KHS in 2006

Guys it's time to get rid of the T-buildings at Klein High.

Totally agree. It's time to find a better location for a new buidling. This is a bad site for a high school. Rebuilding individual buildings is not going to fix the problems. There are better solutions for the same cost.

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Rich, your plan is not going to work. KHS will never leave that property, it needs to be upgraded on the land it is sitting on. And if you did follow your plan you still end up with 5 high schools and the future need for a 6th, but no land to put it on. Despite many of the Districts shortcomings Klein has planned ahead much better than you think.

And yes I still think the actions of your group specifically the people from Gleannloch are arrogant, and express an elitist attitude. I live in Gleannloch and I, and many of my neighbors are embarrassed by your groups approach. I have no interest in visiting your website or supporting your group in any way.

Like I said before I am not happy with this bond, but your group is making my rethink on how to vote.

I'm confused. You agree that this is a bad bond, but you would actually vote for it in a misguided attempt to spite some group of residents who are also opposed to it. That's seriously wrong. You're going to show the board support for a bad plan just so you can say "There."? Does that really make sense to you? I mean no one even knows who you are - are going to mail a copy of your "yes" vote or post a copy to this Web site so we can believe you did it?

Seriously re-evaluate your motives. And from what I've read, I don't think you actually know what the Klein for All group supports. Lots of assumptions and you know what they say about assumptions - they make you look foolish.

I just found out that PBK Architects will be designing Klein ISD's 5th High School.

Have they named the group that will work on the rebuild of KHS? I was trying to understand who provided those rebuild and new build estimates to the steering committee.

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Dr. Cain mentioned that almost every school in the district has T buildings. I agree it is time to get rid of them in all of our schools. But, they dont go away even when there is enough capacity. They get used for someother purpose, like JROTC or some other special program.

That would be Chris Allen. I believe he lives in Gleannloch too....on the North Side.

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I'm confused. You agree that this is a bad bond, but you would actually vote for it in a misguided attempt to spite some group of residents who are also opposed to it. That's seriously wrong. You're going to show the board support for a bad plan just so you can say "There."? Does that really make sense to you? I mean no one even knows who you are - are going to mail a copy of your "yes" vote or post a copy to this Web site so we can believe you did it?

Seriously re-evaluate your motives. And from what I've read, I don't think you actually know what the Klein for All group supports. Lots of assumptions and you know what they say about assumptions - they make you look foolish.

Have they named the group that will work on the rebuild of KHS? I was trying to understand who provided those rebuild and new build estimates to the steering committee.

No, I don't think so. It will most likely be one of the following-SPA, SHW or PBK.

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your group is doing nothing but wasting its time. If there is one thing I have learned in all this time with KISD it is this, no matter what you do, or say, or present they are still going to do what they want to do regardless. In fact, the District would love it if the School Board went away so they could have freedom to do that without the red tape. You think these steering committees are done to find the best bond? Everyone knows these were stacked in favor of KHS, why do you think that is? This bond was made up before then, and is already a done deal, the election, and these town halls are merely small hurdles for the District. Sure you could vote it down, but that is a tremendous effort that the District thinks you are not capable of, and right now they are right. So keep putting your ads in the paper, etc, it is all time and money that you will never see a return on.

Like I said before, I think this is a bad bond, it covers some, but not all the needs the District has as a whole. Your group thinks the District only applies to your immediate surroundings, it is a narrow view that comes off as arrogant. With the message you are sending throughout your community you and your group will destroy any credibility Gleannloch has as a voting block in the District, and your voice is eventually going to fall on deaf ears, if it hasn't already.

So your answer is to sit back and let the District take advantage of taxpayer money? Humble voted down a bond and reorganized their board. It can be done.

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Fourth, your group is doing nothing but wasting its time. If there is one thing I have learned in all this time with KISD it is this, no matter what you do, or say, or present they are still going to do what they want to do regardless. In fact, the District would love it if the School Board went away so they could have freedom to do that without the red tape. You think these steering committees are done to find the best bond? Everyone knows these were stacked in favor of KHS, why do you think that is? This bond was made up before then, and is already a done deal, the election, and these town halls are merely small hurdles for the District. Sure you could vote it down, but that is a tremendous effort that the District thinks you are not capable of, and right now they are right. So keep putting your ads in the paper, etc, it is all time and money that you will never see a return on.

Why is this a waste of time? You admit in your post that you perceive the Klein Board as well as the Steering Committee as being either morally debased, arrogant or both. Which I personally would tend to agree with; why would any of us vote yes on a bond that does not benefit ALL of the taxpayers?

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The perfectly good buildings are not being abandoned in the current proposal, they are being torn down and rebuilt. Everyone seems to think that Klein High School was built in the 60's. The majority of the school was not built in the 60's. In fact, the current proposal is to tear down the high rise which was built in 1979 as well as buildings from the 80's and one from 1992.

If all they were proposing was to rebuild the old building, it could be done in place. This would be the same as adding a wing to Klein Oak or Klein Collins. Those wings have capacity of 500 to 700 students. That is about the same size as a project to rebuild the main building from the 60's. If it is OK to have Klein Oak and Klein Collins' kids go to school in a construction zone, it should be OK for KHS also. However, now that the project has grown from the inital couple of buildings that was originally proposed to 8 buildings, of course you cant rebuild this entire thing with kids on campus.

I have promised KHS parents that I would post their concerns on the www.kleinforall.com website. I will also be sending them to Dr. Cain for comment. Some of the concerns include:

Rat infestation

Mold

Buildings have to be kept at 50 degrees in order to keep mold from growing

Students have to wade to class, knee deep in water

Walls are falling down

Ceilings have fallen down

The school is on a busy intersection

The school needs to be under one roof for security concerns

It is Old

There are too many doors that students and uninvited guests can enter

The administration claims that the buildings are safe and up to code. This statement was made by Dr. Cain at one of the Steering Committee meetings and can be viewed at www.kleinisd.net in the minutes. When asked why the rebuild, Dr. Cain's reply was "we got together and talked about it and just felt the time was right." He also mentioned that he thought too much money being poured into the existing buildings. From a percentage of replacement cost perspective, we pour more money into other buildings than we do Klein High. In fact, the amount of money we are proposing to spend on rennovation has gone from $22M in the 2004 Bond to over $98M in the 2008 Bond. Should we be rebuiling other schools first, where we clearly are investing a higher percentage of the rebuild cost?

There is no engineering report indicating a rebuild is required. This is what everyone seems to forget. If there is no financial or scientific justification to rebuilding, it is clearly a want and not a need. That being said, again, many of the Klein For All members have toured Klein High and agree that something needs to be done. The time is not right to rebuild and place additional burden on over crowding. If we must rebuild in place, it should wait a few years. If we can rebuild some place else, fine...lets do it. The bigger question is why hasn't the building been repaired? why are ceilings falling down? there is $40M left to fund from the 2004 Bond Proposal. Yes, it is earmarked to buy a laptop for every high school student, but is that more important than fixing Klein High School? Apparently it is. The Administration could have diverted that money to fix Klein High, but chose not to.

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Wow, a lot of rebuttle needed here, looks like you got the whole gang posting, so here goes.

Ok, first off I remain anonymous on this board because I normally don't discuss school business here. In case you didn't notice this is an Architectural board that mainly deals with projects around town, not school bonds. I discuss projects occurring around town that I do business with. I share information with others here who also would like to remain anonymous. This is normally how a message board works. Again this is not your private board; I have been a member here for years.

Second, who cares about zoning? What does that have to do with the bond? I'll let your jealousy comment die on its own.

And this letter? Not sure what you are talking about, I haven't mailed a letter in years, Hell I don't even know where the stamps are in my house. And I am not part of any group, just a lone citizen voicing concerns. Talk about assumptions.

And I never have said I am anyone, just a resident who listens to what is going on around me. You are the ones who stirred this anti-bond movement all up, not everyone is going to agree with you so deal with the consequences, not everybody thinks like you.

You want to talk about assumptions, you sir are the one who is assuming too much. I can't bring up facts with you; it would be a waste of my time. You have already made up your mind and there is no dealing with that. Whether it is on the bond, or your opinion about me. By your fellow posters I am assuming you think I am Chris Allen, steering committee member and founder of the PAC. Sorry to disappoint you, I never even met the man.

I am sure you people have some ideas that might be helpful, but your approach is what I think everyone has a problem with. It is evident in the attacks you are placing on me in here, the

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So your answer is to sit back and let the District take advantage of taxpayer money? Humble voted down a bond and reorganized their board. It can be done.

No IO do not want that, I am merely expressing my views of how I have watched this District operate for years. I ma not happy withthe Board, I think they have let the District slide on this, again. I am extremenly dissapointed in the elected board who have not asked the toughe questions and made the District prove on a detailed level that this bond is good for all, not just one group.

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The perfectly good buildings are not being abandoned in the current proposal, they are being torn down and rebuilt. Everyone seems to think that Klein High School was built in the 60's. The majority of the school was not built in the 60's. In fact, the current proposal is to tear down the high rise which was built in 1979 as well as buildings from the 80's and one from 1992.

If all they were proposing was to rebuild the old building, it could be done in place. This would be the same as adding a wing to Klein Oak or Klein Collins. Those wings have capacity of 500 to 700 students. That is about the same size as a project to rebuild the main building from the 60's. If it is OK to have Klein Oak and Klein Collins' kids go to school in a construction zone, it should be OK for KHS also. However, now that the project has grown from the inital couple of buildings that was originally proposed to 8 buildings, of course you cant rebuild this entire thing with kids on campus.

I have promised KHS parents that I would post their concerns on the www.kleinforall.com website. I will also be sending them to Dr. Cain for comment. Some of the concerns include:

Rat infestation

Mold

Buildings have to be kept at 50 degrees in order to keep mold from growing

Students have to wade to class, knee deep in water

Walls are falling down

Ceilings have fallen down

The school is on a busy intersection

The school needs to be under one roof for security concerns

It is Old

There are too many doors that students and uninvited guests can enter

I was under the impression that tearing down the High Rise was removed from the proposal, and that the more recent buildings (i.e. the 1992 Pavilion) would not be torn down. There are also other recent buildings that I know aren't in the proposal, such as the band/orchestra building.

So we would be abandoning perfectly good buildings if we left this location, and I don't know who we would sell them to for a "hefty profit." Who wants to buy a high school band hall for a hefty price?

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I'm confused. You agree that this is a bad bond, but you would actually vote for it in a misguided attempt to spite some group of residents who are also opposed to it. That's seriously wrong. You're going to show the board support for a bad plan just so you can say "There."? Does that really make sense to you? I mean no one even knows who you are - are going to mail a copy of your "yes" vote or post a copy to this Web site so we can believe you did it?

Seriously re-evaluate your motives. And from what I've read, I don't think you actually know what the Klein for All group supports. Lots of assumptions and you know what they say about assumptions - they make you look foolish.

Have they named the group that will work on the rebuild of KHS? I was trying to understand who provided those rebuild and new build estimates to the steering committee.

I think this is a bad bond and want to vote no on it fo rthe overall plan. What I do understand is that each on of these projects listed int eh bond have to get voted on by the boardindividually. Which means som eprojects could get taken out, or modified. It happened inteh 2004 bond. So there is a chance that this bond could shrink after it gets passed (if it passes)

I am holding judgement on teh bond, I would like to see it go back to the drawing board, but the realist in me and the KISD way are telling me it won't. I don't want o vote yes, but I feel K4A is not totalling in the realm of reality on their ideas. KISD will not sell the KHS property, it will never happen, why pursue it?

And that door on assumptions swings both ways.

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Why is this a waste of time? You admit in your post that you perceive the Klein Board as well as the Steering Committee as being either morally debased, arrogant or both. Which I personally would tend to agree with; why would any of us vote yes on a bond that does not benefit ALL of the taxpayers?

CA I do nothtink the Board is morally debased. The District I have my doubts on, but my gut wants to say that the Board really does want what is best. Problem is this, I do not know this for fact but I don't recall any of the board being experts in the field of construction, how can they be expected to make decisions on a bond that deals with building new facilities and upgrades others? They can't, they have to rely on teh District for that information, I tend to think that the District has a habit of spinning info to achieve their desired result. Costs, schedules, etc. This bond is full of wish list projects and not needed projects to address the needs of the students and teachers.

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People, Rich, Klein for all group. I am done with this issue, I have spent too much energy on it already with you all. I have said my peace but will not be accused of writing anonymous threatening letters, and in turn be threatened by some bully tactics group. This is the last I will discuss the bond on this board, in fact this board is not the place for such discussions.

Good luck with your movement, I hope that you will begin a more positive approach to making changes in the District.

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KISD will not sell the KHS property, it will never happen, why pursue it?

The more I think about it, the more this seems like an attempt by the Axis of Envy (KO, KF, KC) to break the historic and sentimental attachments people have to Klein High. If they can move Klein High, it goes from being the oldest school to the newest, the darling of the district to its youngest child. Everyone moves up a step on the ladder of establishment, and they don't have to feel like they're always the Visitor when they play Klein in football.

I wonder if there have been analogous ploys by schools in other districts. Maybe Cy Falls, Cy Ridge, etc. have tried to move and rebuild Cy Fair because, after all, it's dangerous being so close to that freeway.

;)

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Problems I have with the proposed Klein ISD bond:

1. Re-build of Klein High has not been proven to be necessary by any engineering reports, and therefore should not happen at this time, when there are serious issues with OVERCROWDING at many of the Klein schools that need to be addressed first. After the overcrowding issues have been addressed, then the district can move on to some of their wants.

2. Laptops in the high schools are not a necessity, and there are published reports stating that they are actually detrimental to achieving higher grades in school. Colleges do not provide them, I don't think Klein think should be doing so either.

3. According to daily news reports, we are approaching a recession, and now is not the time to be holding a bond election for $650 million dollars. Lower the cost of the bond by removing the Klein High re-build and the laptops.

4. I have heard that we are still carrying over $40 million dollars from the last bond. How does this work? Is that amount going to be rolled into this bond? Has anyone else heard this and can explain it?

5. The Klein district paid for a Chancery system four years ago that has never given parents and students the tools that were promised. The system has had major problems over the years and I understand that we've hired consultants to help deal with those issues, but four years is just too long to keep people waiting.

One of the tools that parents and students were promised with the Chancery system was an ability to log on to your students record and instantly view their daily attendance records, tardies record, daily grades, major grades, and upcoming assignments.

I have heard that schools in Humble, Tomball, Spring and some districts in Austin have heard this ability for years. Their systems go by different names like Pinnacle Viewer, but their ability to log on and view these things gives them advantages over Klein students. They also have their approximate class rank printed on the bottom of every report card, giving the student an idea where they stand in relation to the rest of their class, which allows them the ability to adjust their classes to manage their rank.

This ability is absolutely crucial in Texas where the Top 10% rule is the deciding factor when it comes to getting into Texas public universities. I have been told that Klein has the ability to do this now, but will never do this because it will cause the the students to be "too competitive" with each other. Other schools do this and have for years, and they seem to do fine with it. Besides, Klein students don't share their report card information with each other now, I don't see that changing.

I have friends in these other districts who knew from 9th grade, every six weeks, where their child was ranked in their class. My child did not know their class rank until they were a senior, and by then, it's really too late to make adjustments to what classes they should be taking.

In high school, there are different levels of classes, such as "regulars", "honors", "dual-credit", or "A.P." or "advanced placement". If one of my friend's children was not doing well in an A.P. class, they had the knowledge and ability to move the child down to an easier level, thus assuring that their G.P.A. remained high and ensuring that they would be in the Top 10% of their graduation class.

If other schools in Texas have this knowledge and ability, then Klein should put their students on the same level playing field and utilize the full advertised potential of the Chancery system, rather than surprising students with the class rank when they're a senior when it is just be too late. Klein is putting our students at a huge disadvantage in this regard.

End of rant. I understand Dr. Cain and the board made no major changes to the bond, therefore I will make no major changes to my position either. I will be voting NO to the bond election, if and when they call for an election.

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Several of the KISD Board members attended meetings of the Steering Committee, however none of their children were involved. The gentleman who is organizing the PAC to promote this bond is not related to any current or past Board member.

This is my first post here, although I have followed this Forum for some time. Everyone I know is voting against this bond, me included. WAY too much money.

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I think this is a bad bond and want to vote no on it fo rthe overall plan. What I do understand is that each on of these projects listed int eh bond have to get voted on by the boardindividually. Which means som eprojects could get taken out, or modified. It happened inteh 2004 bond. So there is a chance that this bond could shrink after it gets passed (if it passes)

I am holding judgement on teh bond, I would like to see it go back to the drawing board, but the realist in me and the KISD way are telling me it won't. I don't want o vote yes, but I feel K4A is not totalling in the realm of reality on their ideas. KISD will not sell the KHS property, it will never happen, why pursue it?

And that door on assumptions swings both ways.

..door on assumptions...Ha ha ha. But I actually read the Web site and compared it to Klein ISD Web site data. I don't think you have much of a leg to stand on since you won't even read it.

But beside the point - why won't KISD sell the KHS property? I think it needs to be pursued because it is the solution that meets everyone's needs. If the administration is so set in their ways that they can't do what's best for the district, then maybe it's time for a change of leadership. Why are you so pessimistic? You said before that you've been working with KISD for 25 years. That to me seems to be the problem. "Grumble, grumble, you can't change it, grumble, grumble, just give up". Maybe the board needs some new members who aren't so embedded and will do what's best for the district as a whole, not what they are told.

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I'm slightly new to the Klein area. I moved here mainly for the schools. The more I read here, speak with others, and dig into past information, the more concerned I am becoming with the leadership of KISD and others with authority. I have learned very little that would suggest those in charge are even halfway concerned with the overall quality of KISD but are more concerned with personal crusades, maintaining status quo, and keeping their jobs at almost any cost. I believe this bond is a perfect example.

Here is my extended question....am I misinformed; have I misinterpreted what I am reading, hearing, and seeing; am I getting part of my information from people who have just misremembered :D ?

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The more I think about it, the more this seems like an attempt by the Axis of Envy (KO, KF, KC) to break the historic and sentimental attachments people have to Klein High. If they can move Klein High, it goes from being the oldest school to the newest, the darling of the district to its youngest child. Everyone moves up a step on the ladder of establishment, and they don't have to feel like they're always the Visitor when they play Klein in football.

I wonder if there have been analogous ploys by schools in other districts. Maybe Cy Falls, Cy Ridge, etc. have tried to move and rebuild Cy Fair because, after all, it's dangerous being so close to that freeway.

;)

They will still have the name, colors and mascot. I think the majority would prefer a new school. Why have it on a piece of land that doesn't work for the district anymore? Maybe they could erect a small landmark if it so pleases them.

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I think architects can work with the current Klein High School property. The district doesn't have any other land that can be for the Klein HS Zone. Parts of the school that were built recently like the Fine Arts Building can be incorporated into the new building.

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Klein ISD school board to call for bond election in May

from the story:

Cain said he made a pledge to the board and community prior to their vote Tuesday.

"I understand that with any significant issue, there will be differences of opinion in the community, and I respect those opinions," Cain said. "I want to make sure that when things are stated in print or over the Internet, that the information is factually correct and complete so that people have the opportunity to make an informed decision.

"I pledge to make sure that everything we (Klein ISD) distributes in print or on the Internet is factually correct and complete."

Geez, and I was naive enough to think that had been the norm all these years. Guess not...

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Klein ISD school board to call for bond election in May

from the story:

Cain said he made a pledge to the board and community prior to their vote Tuesday.

"I understand that with any significant issue, there will be differences of opinion in the community, and I respect those opinions," Cain said. "I want to make sure that when things are stated in print or over the Internet, that the information is factually correct and complete so that people have the opportunity to make an informed decision.

"I pledge to make sure that everything we (Klein ISD) distributes in print or on the Internet is factually correct and complete."

Geez, and I was naive enough to think that had been the norm all these years. Guess not...

If only Cain practiced what he preaches!

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Klein ISD school board to call for bond election in May

from the story:

Cain said he made a pledge to the board and community prior to their vote Tuesday.

"I understand that with any significant issue, there will be differences of opinion in the community, and I respect those opinions," Cain said. "I want to make sure that when things are stated in print or over the Internet, that the information is factually correct and complete so that people have the opportunity to make an informed decision.

"I pledge to make sure that everything we (Klein ISD) distributes in print or on the Internet is factually correct and complete."

Geez, and I was naive enough to think that had been the norm all these years. Guess not...

What in that quote suggested that it wasn't the norm over all these years?

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  • 2 weeks later...

This is new information released from PBK Architect's Website.

PBK has been chosen by the Klein ISD Board of Trustees to design the District's newest high school (#5). The project was awarded through a very comprehensive design competition process. The new high school is programmed for 550,000-square feet, will accommodate 3,600 students and has a budget of $116 Million. Once complete, this will be one of the largest stand-alone high school facilities in the nation (that doesn't have a 9th Grade Center attached). Dan Boggio, Irene Nigaglioni and Ian Powell will lead the charge for PBK's management of this project.

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