Jump to content
HAIF - Houston's original social media

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 510
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

https://realtynewsreport.com/2020/01/06/the-2020-outlook-for-houstons-office-market-qa-with-chip-colvill-of-colvill-office/  

Hmmm...   https://www.lifang.us/portfolio/exterior    

Posted Images

I am reminded of that old SNL skit "Hey, Remember the 80's" with Jim Breuer as goat boy. I think developers and banks are perfectly  fine having high rents and high occupancy rather than risk another episode of "see-through" towers as Houston had in the late 80's. The finance charges of a construction loan cost quite a bit. Even if a building becomes highly profitable eventually, a developer must rightfully exercise caution during that period during which they must pay full interest on their loan but before they have any tenants to pay rents to help them service the loan.

 

I would be thrilled if a tenant would surprise us and commit to this project so that it can rise sooner rather than later. I also concede that, given that the City of Houston might commit to lease out 800 Bell--removing that potential office space from the market, this project might look a little bit better on spec. However, it does not hurt Crescent to wait a little while to see how things shake out.

 

If the City cuts a deal to lease out 800 Bell (and we should have word of that in just a few weeks), Crescent does not risk having this office space flooding the market at the same time as 800 Bell and 609 Main. I cannot say if that would be enough for them to proceed on spec, but it might lower the amount of office space to which a tenant would have to commit for this project to move forward.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...

^^^ $250mm could very easily encompass a brand new tower.  are you sure cloud?  thats a heck of a lot of dollars just to enhance a streetscape / pedestrian experience.  maybe they will loan some funds over to the FOUR SEASONS.... they are need of a lot of enhancements.....

i saw the renderings.. I'm positive. as for the Four Seasons.. heh, agreed it could use an update. but i don't think the Four Seasons is a part of the Houston Center complex anymore.. i thought they split when the hotel was sold (not sure if it was the Gates sale or when it sold to whoever sold it to Gates)?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

7 is what i was told lockmat. yeah, this would be huge for downtown. i wish i got more details than just a few renderings on the slides and some numbers they dropped.

and geez.. the Pappas are taking over!

btw. if no one has caught on yet. there was absolutely no sign of 6 Houston Center in what i saw. looks like they are focusing their efforts on this instead.

I would much prefer a revamp of the Houston Center's street presence over a mini BG Group. While the Buildings in the Houston Center are nice, the whole idea behind it is dated and a way of thinking for street presence that must go the way of the dodo. Edited by Montrose1100
  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

Didn't the parking lot used to be closed off to vehicles or am I getting sites confused? Thought it was closed off after the "groundbreaking".

 

No, I don't think they ever stopped parking on the lot for this most-recent iteration of 6 Houston Center. They just put up the fence with the pretty renderings and kept right on leasing out the parking spaces.  I also don't think they ever had a groundbreaking this time around.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

No, it has always been open as Houston19514 has stated and there was not a groundbreaking event. Only the fence was lined with leasing wrappers. You may be thinking of HSVPA? There was an event for this tower but that was back during 2007 to 2008. It was more of a social event.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 year later...
Quote

In downtown Houston, Goff has been planning to build 6 Houston Center, a proposed 30-story office tower at Walker and Caroline streets. It’s a follow-up to the 5 Houston Center that Crescent completed in 2002. But it’s likely to be a few years before 6 Houston Center gets going, due to the softness in the Houston office market.

 

http://realtynewsreport.com/2017/01/06/realty-news-reports-legends-of-real-estate-awards-texan-of-the-year-john-goff-crescent-real-estate/

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 5 weeks later...
Quote

HOUSTON – Six Houston Center, a proposed downtown skyscraper, is still on the drawing boards, but it’s too soon to start building the new office tower, says the project’s developer, John Goff, chairman of Fort Worth-based Crescent Real Estate Equities.
...
“We have no immediate plans (to build the Six Houston tower). We’d need to see a full recovery before we would consider it, “ Goff told Realty News Report in an exclusive interview.

 

http://realtynewsreport.com/2017/02/01/john-goff-six-houston-center-skyscraper-still-planned-but-groundbreaking-not-expected-soon/

Link to post
Share on other sites

Especially being that Capitol Tower is likely to come out of the ground....which will not only add space to an already saturated market but you've got Shell One Towr that's nearly empty, 700 Louisiana that will be half empty, Continental Center One will have a boat load of space when United leaves for 609 Main. 6 Houston Centeris a pipe dream and nothing more

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, wxman said:

Especially being that Capitol Tower is likely to come out of the ground....which will not only add space to an already saturated market but you've got Shell One Towr that's nearly empty, 700 Louisiana that will be half empty, Continental Center One will have a boat load of space when United leaves for 609 Main. 6 Houston Centeris a pipe dream and nothing more

 

I wonder if it's time to take a cue from our neighbors to the north and consider converting one of these older office buildings into a different use..

Link to post
Share on other sites

Where would interest in this tower rank in comparison to interest in an updated 800 Bell?  I understand Capitol Tower is next in line given the prime Louisiana St location and good tunnel access, but  6 Houston Center would at least link up with those complexes while 800 Bell--even if connected by tunnels--would be quite a distance away.  One also has to wonder if this won't end up getting pushed behind Hines' lot at the former Chronicle building site, as that is also better located than this project.

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, wxman said:

Especially being that Capitol Tower is likely to come out of the ground....which will not only add space to an already saturated market but you've got Shell One Towr that's nearly empty, 700 Louisiana that will be half empty, Continental Center One will have a boat load of space when United leaves for 609 Main. 6 Houston Centeris a pipe dream and nothing more

To add to your over dramatization, Cullen Center will be a big glut too, and we have 800 Bell patiently awaiting it's demise.

 

While all of this is true, I don't think we're going to experience a glut for long. We normally don't. Downtown still commands high rent.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, nate4l1f3 said:

I want this built only if it's redesigned!  Hehehehe

I think it will be redesigned and could be larger scale, just will be tabled for awhile.  JPM is looking to invest a lot of money into Houston Center in enhancing the street level with retail and greenspaces.  However his bread and butter is the 20-30 story tower, so we shall see.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, wxman said:

Especially being that Capitol Tower is likely to come out of the ground....which will not only add space to an already saturated market but you've got Shell One Towr that's nearly empty, 700 Louisiana that will be half empty, Continental Center One will have a boat load of space when United leaves for 609 Main. 6 Houston Centeris a pipe dream and nothing more

One Shell is not empty. Shell's announcement of moving emptied a little over a third of the building. Their trading operation will stay and you have law offices including Baker Botts headquarters. 

 

Though currently not in expansion mode, Chevron is in consolidation mode. I would not surprised if they absorbed most of the space in 1600 Smith (One Continental center) as they have already been doing. With pending closures of some of their satellite offices their plans seems to be the two chevron towers and 1600 smith.

 

This is not to say there is not a glut but let's look at the facts. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, urbanize713 said:

One Shell is not empty. Shell's announcement of moving emptied a little over a third of the building. Their trading operation will stay and you have law offices including Baker Botts headquarters. 

 

Though currently not in expansion mode, Chevron is in consolidation mode. I would not surprised if they absorbed most of the space in 1600 Smith (One Continental center) as they have already been doing. With pending closures of some of their satellite offices their plans seems to be the two chevron towers and 1600 smith.

 

This is not to say there is not a glut but let's look at the facts. 

 

I agree they basically have 3 buildings. 2 Enron buildings and continental center, though they still have offices in 3 Allen, Bellaire, and Briar Park. Once they start doing better, I think their tower will happen.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/10/2017 at 2:59 PM, cloud713 said:

 

I wonder if it's time to take a cue from our neighbors to the north and consider converting one of these older office buildings into a different use..

 

Doesn't seem very likely, except for maybe the Exxon Building, which I would love to see converted to residential. 

 

1) We've already converted most of our truly older buildings to different uses. 

 

2) Yes, Dallas has also been converting mid-century (and later) buildings to other uses, but the need to convert just isn't present in Houston like it has been in Dallas.  Even in this current period of reduced economic activity in Houston, our downtown office vacancy is a relatively healthy 15% (13.1% for Class A space).  By contrast, even having converting many many buildings to other uses, the much-smaller downtown Dallas still has an office vacancy rate of 22.6% (26.7% for Class A space). 

Edited by Houston19514
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 9 months later...

http://www.chron.com/business/retail/article/Brookfield-closes-on-mega-downtown-deal-12399379.php

 

Brookfield's acquisition of the Houston Center creates an opportunity to control the spigot on the introduction of some of the proposed office space into Downtown.  I suspect it not only keeps this project in carbon freeze,  but turns it into Jabba the Hutt's coffee table for the foreseeable future.  I'm hopeful Brookfield's acquisition could result in a nice redesign of the Houston Center similar to what we've seen from the Allen Center actually coming to fruition.

 

On another note, I wonder if the long-dormant 5 Allen Center might take priority over 6 Houston Center in the longer term given the opportunity for superior views and higher tenant prices that might come out of an eventual 5 Allen Center.  

 

Edit:  In giving the article a closer read, it appears 5 HC was not part of the deal.  I therefore am not sure if the proposed 6 HC site would have been part of the deal.

 

 

Edited by houstontexasjack
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Between this, Capitol Tower, 609 Main and the other tower Hines just built (the one with the slanted roof), we could have put up a new super-tall. Why they keep building these crappy 30-something story buildings is beyond me. Clearly somebody thinks there's room for more office space and they're being leased or they wouldn't come out of the ground. Is there an unwritten law that nothing over 40 something stories can be built downtown any longer? It's kind of annoying...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, wxman said:

Between this, Capitol Tower, 609 Main and the other tower Hines just built (the one with the slanted roof), we could have put up a new super-tall. Why they keep building these crappy 30-something story buildings is beyond me. Clearly somebody thinks there's room for more office space and they're being leased or they wouldn't come out of the ground. Is there an unwritten law that nothing over 40 something stories can be built downtown any longer? It's kind of annoying...

Not that I don't wish we would build another supertall, but major players are not only focused on building height, but quality, sustainability and return for investors.  Especially not Skanska and Hines.  We should not criticize these developers that continue to provide our city with A+ assets, even though they are not 1000+ feet tall.  Capitol Tower and 609 Main were great additions to our skyline.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

1 hour ago, wxman said:

Between this, Capitol Tower, 609 Main and the other tower Hines just built (the one with the slanted roof), we could have put up a new super-tall. Why they keep building these crappy 30-something story buildings is beyond me. Clearly somebody thinks there's room for more office space and they're being leased or they wouldn't come out of the ground. Is there an unwritten law that nothing over 40 something stories can be built downtown any longer? It's kind of annoying...

As I understand it, construction costs above a certain height increase exponentially.  That's why it's generally cheaper to build two 40-story towers rather than one 80-story tower despite the extra land costs. Additionally, one 80-story tower will have to devote more space out of potential floor plates to elevators to move folks between floors.  The good news is that, as empty lots become less available Downtown, the incentives to build taller should start to arise as land costs rise and increased desirability of building in dense Downtown makes higher construction costs more palatable.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/5/2017 at 3:02 PM, wxman said:

Between this, Capitol Tower, 609 Main and the other tower Hines just built (the one with the slanted roof), we could have put up a new super-tall. Why they keep building these crappy 30-something story buildings is beyond me. Clearly somebody thinks there's room for more office space and they're being leased or they wouldn't come out of the ground. Is there an unwritten law that nothing over 40 something stories can be built downtown any longer? It's kind of annoying...

 

Not to be critical but this is factually incorrect. 

 

BG Place 2011 46 Stories

609 Main 2017 48 Stories. 

 

The truer statement would be nothing over 50 Stories has been built in some time.

 

Some, many years ago, would have said we would never see residential towers be built in downtown again.... By my count we have 5 new towers, one conversion, and 2-3 in the pipeline. The super-tall will come its just a matter of when. Who knows maybe Hines has one last gift for us on the chronicle site?

Edited by urbanize713
  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 years later...
48 minutes ago, Urbannizer said:

 

Hmmm indeed. This looks a lot better than the old design. Looks ready to cannibalize some older, larger buildings with tenants who will downsize to smaller, newer spaces. Also looks like some nice GFR just waiting for the next food hall.

 

We can date this rendering fairly well based on the fact that the new BoA building is about halfway up and the Market Square Tower garage is under construction. Without looking at those threads, I am guessing some time in 2018 for the source photo, although the rendering could have been done more recently.

 

Edited by H-Town Man
  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Urbannizer said:

 

Now it appears to copy BoA tower (the new one / Capitol Tower)... instead of the mini-hines version it once was.

 

I don't understand why they are spending money on new designs if they aren't willing to build it. An anchor tenant may want to see some action before they can trust the project kicks off.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...



×
×
  • Create New...