Sienna Plantation And Other Southwest Communities

[Trophy Property]

My fiance and I currently live in Midtown. We have a 3/3 townhouse with virtually no yard. We are planning a family in the next 2 years and we want to get a dog. We want to upgrade to 3500+ SF and the only way we can afford such a move is out to the suburbs. We are excited about a new house, but we are a little nervous about choosing which area to move. We have pretty much ruled out North, East and West neighborhoods leaving us with Sugarland / Missouri City or the Pearland area.

My requirements in order are:

Safety and General quality of life

Price (looking to pay under $300k for a 4br+ house)

Commute time (I work in Galleria and she works in CBD)

Bells and Whistles (mainly in the house, but also in the community)

Resturants and Entertainment (chain resturants don't cut it in our book)

Eventually school system will play a huge role as well.

We spent an entire day last weekend checking out Sienna Plantation and we absolutely loved it. With the Ft. Bend toll way, I think the commute might be bearable. The price is right and the community is great. I am concerned with resale and traffic as the community grows. With 15,000 houses to be built out over the next 15-20 years will our asset remain viable?

Are there other areas that we should look at. Is Pearland a better deal?

We have so many questions and not many answers. I know this was a long post, but any suggestions or tips would be great. Horror stories work well too.

What really scares me is selling my House in midtown for a small premium and then watching the market blow up over the next 5 years and losing out on that appreciation. Uggh. Too many decisions.

[UrbaNerd]

If you want to try Pearland, check out Shadow Creek ranch. That area is really booming right now.

[111486]

Pearland is nice, but it just like any typical suburb. You know Wal Mart, Target, Panera Bread, Best Buy, blah blah tish tish. I would actually go to Sugar Land, since it is home to Town Square. The only problem is 59 can be kind of bad in the morning hours, but it is not that bad. If I could live in any suburb it would have to be Sugar Land. I would pick the Woodlands, but it is on the north side, which I have no use for except for the airport, plus it is too far. There is actually some nice dining in Sugar Land around 59 and in Sugar Land Town Square.

[Lowbrow]

Pearland has great housing developments but the amenities arent realy here. There are a handful of niche restaurants but overall its got a little ways to go. Good bang for the buck. I live in pearland, I essentially drive up into houston twice a day.. once for work.. then I may come home eat.. then go back up to houston to meet for drinks or theater or whatever. Pearland takes about 20 minutes from downtown if no traffic.

Sugarland has alot more to offer. There is also that new Fort Bend Parkway going in that may be nice for ya.

On a side note, 3500+ is HUGE. I had a 2414 sf house for 4 years, 4/2.5 and it just seemed so cavernous.... its hard for me to get my head around that... but to each his own. Its funny back in arch school when designing a 4 person home we were told we HAD to keep it under 1900 sf.... I'm so old.....

[Lowbrow]

My only horror story about the burbs (beside that I hate the burbs ) is that if you try to sell in a new area and it is still growing.. good luck. I had my house built when the neighborhood was nothing but grass lots and streets leading no where. I picked one of the bigger floor plans and it was built in about 8 months. We were paying base + about 30k in upgrades. We moved in and I immediately started going to work and within a few years had added another 30k worth of improvements (flagstone patio, built ins, better lighting, etc). Lots of stone work. My family were all masons its in the blood. When I went to try to sell it (divorce) there was a new neighborhood going in next door. There was no way that I could put my house on the market for base+60k... even though the tax assessment was going up each year. Not even base+30k. We ended up putting it on the market for base+15k (a loss of 45k) and in 6 months it never sold. People could buy a new one in the next neighborhood for what we paid base. Improvements meant nothing. We had about 6 or 7 couples absolutely fall in love with our house but none of them came thorugh. In the end I basically gave it to the ex.

fun stuff.

[jm1fd]

What really scares me is selling my House in midtown for a small premium and then watching the market blow up over the next 5 years and losing out on that appreciation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Keep it, and rent it out, then you can sell it at the height of the bubble and cash out with one meeeeeelion dollars in hand....or then again you can keep it, rent it out, values will go to hell, and you'll have to dig yourself out from under it.

Of course the most likely scenario, espescially since it is a townhouse, and not on any sizeable piece of land, is that its value will stay flat (as rates go up, and people can afford less house for the same monthly) or appreciate at a moderate amount.....what would be the catalyst for those meeeeelions of appreciation?Nothing....there's plenty of land inside the loop that hasn't been beautified by the townhouse developers yet.

You're not going to see any big appreciation out in suburbia unless you strike oil, there's plenty of land to develop on, just 5 minutes down the road....why would anybody want your used dump of a house when they can have a brand new one just 5 minutes further along.

[Guest danax]

The problem with Pearland is that once those extra 30,000 houses get sold, the traffic into town will be pretty bad and the amenities will be the latest version of the same old suburbia ones, centered around growing families, which I suppose is fine if you have a growing family.

I think the inner-loop land will appreciate the most in the near future. You could buy something cheap close to town in a not-so-great area and tear down and build a new home for probably less than 300K and then enjoy your house and at the same time watch the area around you improve and appreciate, in the meantime send your children to schools outside the area. The amenities that you want would be in the DT area.

I am a preservationist and hate to advocate building McMansions but I see your situation as more and more common and the tear down/ build bigger is almost an inevitable as time goes on, unless people can get used to the idea of restoring and improving a smaller, older house.

[Trophy Property]

My only horror story about the burbs (beside that I hate the burbs ) is that if you try to sell in a new area and it is still growing.. good luck. I had my house built when the neighborhood was nothing but grass lots and streets leading no where. I picked one of the bigger floor plans and it was built in about 8 months. We were paying base + about 30k in upgrades. We moved in and I immediately started going to work and within a few years had added another 30k worth of improvements (flagstone patio, built ins, better lighting, etc). Lots of stone work. My family were all masons its in the blood. When I went to try to sell it (divorce) there was a new neighborhood going in next door. There was no way that I could put my house on the market for base+60k... even though the tax assessment was going up each year. Not even base+30k. We ended up putting it on the market for base+15k (a loss of 45k) and in 6 months it never sold. People could buy a new one in the next neighborhood for what we paid base. Improvements meant nothing. We had about 6 or 7 couples absolutely fall in love with our house but none of them came thorugh. In the end I basically gave it to the ex.

fun stuff.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is exactly what I am worried about. I am wondering if the best bet is to buy a 2-3 year old home and let that homeowner take the hit on all the extras. There are some pretty decent deals out there, it is just about being patient and finding the right house. Thanks for the story. It is something I am scared about. Where do you live now? Do you have the same problem?

[Trophy Property]

Keep it, and rent it out, then you can sell it at the height of the bubble and cash out with one meeeeeelion dollars in hand....or then again you can keep it, rent it out, values will go to hell, and you'll have to dig yourself out from under it. 

Of course the most likely scenario, espescially since it is a townhouse, and not on any sizeable piece of land, is that its value will stay flat (as rates go up, and people can afford less house for the same monthly) or appreciate at a moderate amount.....what would be the catalyst for those meeeeelions of appreciation?Nothing....there's plenty of land inside the loop that hasn't been beautified by the townhouse developers yet.

You're not going to see any big appreciation out in suburbia unless you strike oil, there's plenty of land to develop on, just 5 minutes down the road....why would anybody want your used dump of a house when they can have a brand new one just 5 minutes further along.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK, then what is your suggestion. I know there are plenty of areas that have seen large appreciation. I have a friend who bought in First Colony 8 years ago for $180 and sold his house for $280 this year. My mother lives has lived in Briargrove Park for 20 years and her house has nearly tripled in value. I think over time any area will see appreciation. Will Midtown see that in 5 years, I do not know, but I think as land gets more scarce and the inventory is flat, prices will rise.

Good point on interest rates. That is a factor that must be looked at.

[Trophy Property]

The problem with Pearland is that once those extra 30,000 houses get sold, the traffic into town will be pretty bad and the amenities will be the latest version of the same old suburbia ones, centered around growing families, which I suppose is fine if you have a growing family.

I think the inner-loop land will appreciate the most in the near future. You could buy something cheap close to town in a not-so-great area and tear down and build a new home for probably less than 300K and then enjoy your house and at the same time watch the area around you improve and appreciate, in the meantime send your children to schools outside the area. The amenities that you want would be in the DT area.

I am a preservationist and hate to advocate building McMansions but I see your situation as more and more common and the tear down/ build bigger is almost an inevitable as time goes on, unless people can get used to the idea of restoring and improving a smaller, older house.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where inside the loop could we buy land and build a new house for 300k. That is our price range, but I am not sure that is possible. I would be willing to listen though.

[Lowbrow]

That is exactly what I am worried about.    I am wondering if the best bet is to buy a 2-3 year old home and let that homeowner take the hit on all the extras.    There are some pretty decent deals out there, it is just about being patient and finding the right house.    Thanks for the story.  It is something I am scared about.    Where do you live now?  Do you have the same problem?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm in a "luxury" (hehe) apartment just a mile down 518 from the house I'm talking about above. I spend each weekend scouring houston for my next residence. I currently favor the homes in Timbergrove Manor (great price/proximity ratio), getting a condo/townhome in midtown, or doing the loft thing in downtown. I have a 2 year old daughter that I have to think about as well and that pushes me towards the house idea but I dont need much space.

Letting the seller take the bite is a sound idea. Market saturation is on your side.

[Trophy Property]

On a side note, 3500+ is HUGE. I had a 2414 sf house for 4 years, 4/2.5 and it just seemed so cavernous.... its hard for me to get my head around that... but to each his own. Its funny back in arch school when designing a 4 person home we were told we HAD to keep it under 1900 sf.... I'm so old.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

3500 is big, but two of us are already cramped with 2300 SF. With additional room for kid stuff, I think 3500 will actually be too small if we have more than one kid.

When I grew up we had 3200 SF and there were four of us in the house (sometimes 5 with Step Brother). It seemed huge growing up, but cramped when we hit High School. It was also in the Westchase area and seemed like the end of the world. Now that is almost considered intown.

[Lowbrow]

3500 is big, but two of us are already cramped with 2300 SF.  With additional room for kid stuff,  I think 3500 will actually be too small if we have more than one kid.   

When I grew up we had 3200 SF and there were four of us in the house (sometimes 5 with Step Brother).  It seemed huge growing up, but cramped when we hit High School.    It was also in the Westchase area and seemed like the end of the world.  Now that is almost considered intown.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, excuse my mindset... Ive just been minimalizing lately. I even bought some books on how to live comfortably in spall spaces (<900sf). Amazing what some people can do with 200sf.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[Guest danax]

Where inside the loop could we buy land and build a new house for 300k.  That is our price range, but I am not sure that is possible.    I would be willing to listen though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hope I don't sound like a salesman for the East End but that's where I'm thinking, because I live here and it's improving and is the next, if not the final frontier inside the loop. Maybe the 5th Ward is the ultimate frontier but that's a ways off. The vacant land where I live is valued at around $25K on HCAD for around 7500 sq ft. Old homes start at 70K. It's still kind of ugly and funky but crime is not really an issue. I'm cringing as I say this but there are some nicer neighborhoods out here that are just such nice pieces of real estate that I'm afraid the tear-down thing is inevitable. Forest Hill is one and there's already a McMansion of sorts there. An old home goes for around 100K+ so that might already put you above 300K, and your home would be "overbuilt" for the neighborhood until appreciation caught up with it.

I'm not saying this is the perfect solution, just that it was a thought and, if you're looking to be close to town and get on board an improving and appreciating wave, then the inner-loop is a good gamble.

[Trophy Property]

I hope I don't sound like a salesman for the East End but that's where I'm thinking, because I live here and it's improving and is the next, if not the final frontier inside the loop. Maybe the 5th Ward is the ultimate frontier but that's a ways off. The vacant land where I live is valued at around $25K on HCAD for around 7500 sq ft. Old homes start at 70K. It's still kind of ugly and funky but crime is not really an issue. I'm cringing as I say this but there are some nicer neighborhoods out here that are just such nice pieces of real estate that I'm afraid the tear-down thing is inevitable. Forest Hill is one and there's already a McMansion of sorts there. An old home goes for around 100K+ so that might already put you above 300K, and your home would be "overbuilt" for the neighborhood until appreciation caught up with it.

I'm not saying this is the perfect solution, just that it was a thought and, if you're looking to be close to town and get on board an improving and appreciating wave, then the inner-loop is a good gamble.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have heard that the East Side is the next area to hit. It would be nice if HISD were better then we might make a move like that. We are still 5-6 years away from sending our yet to be born children to school, but we want to be able to feel safe when we do.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[kjb434]

I know you want the southwest side or the south side, but have you considered buy a home in the spring branch area? Or in Spring Valley? The have a lot of nice older homes in the area and people are looking into rebuilding in the area. You wouldn't be far from the Galleria at all. You can actually avoid the freeway to get to work also. You would just have to cross I-10.

[jm1fd]

Will Midtown see that in 5 years,  I do not know, but I think as land gets more scarce and the inventory is flat, prices will rise. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're exactly right, as scarcity increases, so go prices, but that is not the only influence....

The problem is forecasting what will be scarce....and scarcity requires barriers, be they physical, such as transportation bottlenecks for certain areas, or psychological such as 610. Inside 610 is a sure bet. 610 is THE defining psychological barrier between what's vogue and what's not. Other areas vary....although you're less likely to have any such barriers out in the boonies.

Now, as to your friends that have seen pretty large appreciation....part of that was fueled by interest rates....since they have gone down, that has increased affordability, and has thus increased prices in moderately to greatly desirable areas. Now as to your mother, I would hope she has seen a substantial increase after 20 years. My grandma's house went up 5x in 40 years.

My suggestion....Riverside Terrace....very big, very well built houses, and the area is making a huge comeback...and it is inside the loop near the Med Center....tons of money is going to be coming in over the next few years, when it gets nice enough for everyone else to feel 100% comfortable buying. Although you don't sound like the type to want to buy over there.

[Guest danax]

My suggestion....Riverside Terrace....very big, very well built houses, and the area is making a huge comeback...and it is inside the loop near the Med Center....tons of money is going to be coming in over the next few years, when it gets nice enough for everyone else to feel 100% comfortable buying.  Although you don't sound like the type to want to buy over there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. Those are some of my favorites houses in town. I'm not sure where Washington Terrace ends and Riverside begins but I stopped by a garage sale out there and the lady invited me into to her house as I stood there admiring it. They are 1920s mini mansions.

They're not exactly super cheap now but once the ice breaks over there I see that neighborhood should become diverse and very desireable.

[Trophy Property]

My suggestion....Riverside Terrace....very big, very well built houses, and the area is making a huge comeback...and it is inside the loop near the Med Center....tons of money is going to be coming in over the next few years, when it gets nice enough for everyone else to feel 100% comfortable buying.  Although you don't sound like the type to want to buy over there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I used to drive through Riverside Terrace daily when I was in grad school at UH. I think some of those houses are beautiful, but I always wondered to myseld if that area is safe.

[Parrothead]

My husband and I have been watching Sienna Plantation out of the corners of our eyes for about three years now. We've been very interested in this development and how it is growing.

Being in real estate has allowed me to check home sales in Sienna (resale, not new). You will not have much of a problem selling there even if it continues to develop as planned, over the next 10-15 years or so. Houses do not stay on the market long there at all and sell very close to their asking price. The only area I recommend staying away from in Sienna is Velasco Court and the street next to it. Unfortunately, this small area was not planned well and the trains are a problem there.

If we stay in Houston, we look forward to moving out to Sienna before our daughter enters Kindergarten. That will be about 3-4 years from now. HCTRA will be finished with its end of the extension of the Ft. Bend County Toll Road and it will be a straight shot into the Med Center for my husband.

[Trophy Property]

  The only area I recommend staying away from in Sienna is Velasco Court and the street next to it.  Unfortunately, this small area was not planned well and the trains are a problem there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks so much. Are the trains a problem? I noticed the tracks goign right through the middle of the development. That is good to know about Velasco and that area.

We actually looked at a couple of houses on Fitzgerald. Those seem right next to train tracks as well.

[Parrothead]

It depends on where you are on Fitzgerald--it is a long curvy street that loops around but I love that side of Sienna. That is where I would like to end up, though I have a feeling we will start in Shipman's Landing and move our way across at a later time.

I have not heard of complaints along the tracks over there...but I would imagine it would be quieter on N. Fitzgerald rather than S. Fitzgerald. Keep in mind you won't hear the train horn ever--the bridge over the tracks was designed so trains don't have to blow their horns. It's just the train itself and my guess is that Velasco Ct is pretty darn close to those tracks.

[jm1fd]

I used to drive through Riverside Terrace daily when I was in grad school at UH.  I think some of those houses are beautiful, but I always wondered to myseld if that area is safe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A friend's brother has a house over there, and I was over there last year about this time....the area has improved noticably since then.....so have property values. I expect in a year or two they'll be mostly out of reach.

[The Great Hizzy!]

Most elementary schools aren't an issue - no matter the neighborhood. Well, that's my opinion anyway. I think it's middle school that makes or breaks a kid these days. By the time they get to high school, it's all pretty much pre-determined.

With all that said, My wife and I are considering private school for the middle school years (and maybe the elementary years for continuity) and then public for high school. So I wouldn't let the elementary schools scare you. Just the middle schools!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Man, I'm so eye-to-eye with you on the issue of middle schools that it's not funny. I think elementary school kids can be taught the basics with a solid degree of competency but the middle school years are so important because that's when you start seeing how the kids react to more mature issues and expectations. Plus, middle school teachers are more likely to not care or to become overwhelmed because that's when kids are their most obnoxious and precocious.

I've seen so many middle school teachers spend an entire day either not caring and staring into a magazine or arguing with one or two students about minor things like chewing gum or not showing up thirty seconds late. It's a pretty fruitless environment. OTOH, you have some excellent middle school teachers who don't get the backing by administration that they need to really have an impact on all of their students.

Ah well... back on subject. Pearland is indeed really growing but Sugarland is what's hot on so many levels. You might consider splitting the difference and looking into Missouri City, which has some of the ammenities that Sugarland has but more of the costs of what you'd find in Pearland.

[Trophy Property]

Man, I'm so eye-to-eye with you on the issue of middle schools that it's not funny. I think elementary school kids can be taught the basics with a solid degree of competency but the middle school years are so important because that's when you start seeing how the kids react to more mature issues and expectations. Plus, middle school teachers are more likely to not care or to become overwhelmed because that's when kids are their most obnoxious and precocious.

I've seen so many middle school teachers spend an entire day either not caring and staring into a magazine or arguing with one or two students about minor things like chewing gum or not showing up thirty seconds late. It's a pretty fruitless environment. OTOH, you have some excellent middle school teachers who don't get the backing by administration that they need to really have an impact on all of their students.

Ah well... back on subject. Pearland is indeed really growing but Sugarland is what's hot on so many levels. You might consider splitting the difference and looking into Missouri City, which has some of the ammenities that Sugarland has but more of the costs of what you'd find in Pearland.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I love this site. There have been so many good posts to my original question. My Fiance and I are in the beginning process of trying to figure out where we want to live. Thanks to everyone for the feedback.

[UrbaNerd]

Missouri city is nice, but there is a REALLY UGLY PART in the back, and a slightly unsightly part on HW6 (mostly due to the fault of the older communities). You COULD try Riverstone, though, and there may be some homes under 300k. www.riverstonecommunity.com

[kzseattle]

Missouri city is nice, but there is a REALLY UGLY PART in the back, and a slightly unsightly part on HW6 (mostly due to the fault of the older communities).  You COULD try Riverstone, though, and there may be some homes under 300k.  www.riverstonecommunity.com

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Isnt Sienna Plantation in Missouri city? Perhaps, you could also look at Lake Olympia. I think HW6 is ok, at least from Sugar Land upto Sienna Plantation. I havnt driven beyond that but I think thats pretty much the end of the city.

Where is that really ugly part? Is it close to BW8?

[UrbaNerd]

Oh, right. Sienna is nice, too, and they are going to build some retail soon.

the REALLY NASTY part is on Cartwright, past Murphy, and all the way to the beltway(that area in general) AVOID at ALL COSTS! Besides, the homes there suck (dirt cheap)