The Mitchell Report Out Today

[lockmat]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3152573

Major League Baseball and the Players Association share the blame for tolerating a widespread culture of drug abuse, George Mitchell's report on doping in baseball says, according to two lawyers who said they are familiar with the report.

The sources would not reveal the names of players included in the report, but confirmed that as many as 80 are listed. One lawyer expected several "very, very high-level names" to be exposed, although Mitchell is frank in the report about how difficult it was to get information regarding the extent of player use.

Is anyone concened that Bagwell's name might be included?

Edited December 13, 2007 by lockmat

[crunchtastic]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3152573

Major League Baseball and the Players Association share the blame for tolerating a widespread culture of drug abuse, George Mitchell's report on doping in baseball says, according to two lawyers who said they are familiar with the report.

The sources would not reveal the names of players included in the report, but confirmed that as many as 80 are listed. One lawyer expected several "very, very high-level names" to be exposed, although Mitchell is frank in the report about how difficult it was to get information regarding the extent of player use.

Is anyone concened that Bagwell's name might be included?

I would not be surprised, put it that way. But this whole commission is a joke, given George Mitchell's ties to baseball money and Selig.

I was pleased about the Tejada trade, though!

[KimberlySayWhat]

This should be interesting.

What time will it be released our time?

[lockmat]

This should be interesting.

What time will it be released our time?

1pm I think. And there will be two or three more press conferences following it every hour or so, each one representing a different side of baseball.

[RedScare]

ESPN is reporting that Clemens is in there.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153129

I almost posted Clemens earlier when lockmat asked about Bagwell. But, I figured everyone would jump me for it, and decided not to say it. Guess my suspicion was correct.

I had read awhile back that according to the experts, pitchers would actually gain more advantage from steroids than hitters. Combine that with Clemens apparent superhuman ability to continue pitching well into his 40s, and I thought he would be a suspect. But, he was never caught, so it will never be more than a suspicion.

[RedScare]

Petite to be named as well.

[MidtownCoog]

Is this any surprise?

[RedScare]

None whatsoever.

[lockmat]

ESPN is reporting that Clemens is in there.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153129

I almost posted Clemens earlier when lockmat asked about Bagwell. But, I figured everyone would jump me for it, and decided not to say it. Guess my suspicion was correct.

I had read awhile back that according to the experts, pitchers would actually gain more advantage from steroids than hitters. Combine that with Clemens apparent superhuman ability to continue pitching well into his 40s, and I thought he would be a suspect. But, he was never caught, so it will never be more than a suspicion.

I could see how they'd gain more of an advantage. I'm sure it's hard play every day for that long of a season, but pitching is really tough on the entire body, not just the arm. Did anyone of you pitch as a kid? Your entire body hurts when you're finished. And to do that at their age the amount of times they do it has got to be really tough.

Not to mention even 2 mph on a fastball or any other pitch can make a big difference.

But yeah, I don't think there is one player that would surprise me if they were called out; not one.

Edited December 13, 2007 by lockmat

[lockmat]

update: Tejada in report. Also Eric Gagne and Loduca. Gagne sure is a shocker, eh? Such a scronny guy.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5375472.html

Edited December 13, 2007 by lockmat

[Kirzania]

Personally, I am shocked, SHOCKED, that drugs are still used in professional sports.

[DJ V Lawrence]

It sucks that three out of the four biggest name players in the report are current or former Astros (Clements, Pettite,and Tejada). It's also clear to me that Baltimore wanted to trade Tejada before this report came out just in case, and while they could get the most out of it. There's no way the Astros would have traded five players for an alleged steroid user AFTER the Mitchell report came out.

Wade was dumb for not waiting until after this report to trade for Tejada. Perhaps the 'Stros wouldn't have had to give up as much for him.

[fromsc2tx]

Complete list here

NEW NAMES

Chad Allen

Mike Bell

Gary Bennett

Larry Bigbie

Kevin Brown

Alex Cabrera

Mark Carreon

Jason Christiansen

Howie Clark

Roger Clemens

Jack Cust

Brendan Donnelly

Chris Donnels

Matt Franco

Eric Gagne

Matt Herges

Phil Hiatt

Glenallen Hill

Todd Hundley

Mike Judd

David Justice

Chuck Knoblauch

Tim Laker

Mike Lansing

Paul Lo Duca

Nook Logan

Josias Manzanillo

Cody McKay

Kent Mercker

Bart Miadich

Hal Morris

Daniel Naulty

Denny Neagle

Jim Parque

Andy Pettitte

Adam Piatt

Todd Pratt

Stephen Randolph

Adam Riggs

Armando Rios

Brian Roberts

F.P. Santangelo

Mike Stanton

Ricky Stone

Miguel Tejada

Ismael Valdez

Mo Vaughn

Ron Villone

Fernando Vina

Rondell White

Jeff Williams

Todd Williams

Steve Woodard

Kevin Young

Gregg Zaun

PREVIOUSLY LINKED

Manny Alexander

Rick Ankiel

David Bell

Marvin Benard

Barry Bonds

Ricky Bones

Paul Byrd

Jose Canseco

Paxton Crawford

Lenny Dykstra

Bobby Estalella

Ryan Franklin

Jason Giambi

Jeremy Giambi

Jay Gibbons

Troy Glaus

Juan Gonzalez

Jason Grimsley

Jose Guillen

Jerry Hairston Jr.

Darren Holmes

Ryan Jorgensen

Gary Matthews Jr.

Rafael Palmeiro

John Rocker

Benito Santiago

Scott Schoeneweis

David Segui

Gary Sheffield

Randy Velarde

Matt Williams

Edited December 13, 2007 by fromsc2tx

[TJones]

Everyone keep in mind, that this report is ALL hearsay, no hard evidence to back it up, that is why everything is to be forgiven and forgotten, and we move on. The next one to fail a drug test will get the book thrown at them.

[RedScare]

Everyone keep in mind, that this report is ALL hearsay, no hard evidence to back it up, that is why everything is to be forgiven and forgotten, and we move on. The next one to fail a drug test will get the book thrown at them.

Not on Clemens and Pettite. That is a direct statement by the guy who stuck 'em with the needle. No hearsay there.

[fromsc2tx]

Also, there's photographic evidence of players meeting with "Trainers", as well as copies of checks written to pay said trainers.

I wonder if Clemen's commercial for AT&T wireless will be pulled off the air......

Of course, John Rocker will claim some blacks on a subway injected him without him knowing about it....

Edited December 13, 2007 by fromsc2tx

[RedScare]

Of course, John Rocket will claim some blacks on a subway injected him without him knowing about it....

Post Of The Day!

[brerrabbit]

Hearsay as in not acceptable in a court of law? There looks to be some pretty damning evidence in the actual report. I looked at and while I admit I have not read every word the report looks pretty dang complete. The guy in the Mets organization that supplied the stuff has copies of all the checks from the people he was supplying. He also said he hooked Clemens up while he was still in Toronto and then rejoined him in New York when the Yankees with a strong push from Clemens hired him as a trainer. The guy came to Houston in the off season to train Clemens and both Petite and Clemens up until today a least were still supporting the guy and singing his praises.

But as someone else said it all means little or nothing because without an actual drug test to show the use of banned substances after the league put the rule in place in 2005 then MLB can take no actions. While these guys may be tainted they cannot and more than likely will not be punished by MLB. Now the court of public opinion is another story.

[Fringe]

They really nail Clemens. Maybe it will knock his inflated ego down a peg. Tejada, our new shortstop is also on the list. Hope he will be able to perform without his droids. I'm glad not to see

Edited December 13, 2007 by LunaticFringe
merged with existing topic

[DJ V Lawrence]

According to ESPN, Tejada's name and story are in the report stating that he specifically asked fellow teammate Piatt if he had any steroids, and he later gave him a certain steroid and growth hormone enhancer. However, he "emphasized" that he has no idea doesn't know if Tejada ever actually used the substance. If that's all there is in the story (I haven't read and don't plan to read the Mitchell Report) there's nothing in the report that implements that there's proof that Tejada actually took steroids.

If there's more to that story, feel free to post it, but that's all I heard from the news report because I'm too lazy to read a 300+ page document on magical pills and needles.

[dbigtex56]

Would someone please explain how this ever became the business of the Senate?

I thought baseball was a self-regulated game.

Are musicians, artists and actors going to have to submit to drug testing, too?

[RedScare]

Clemens hired Rusty Hardin to deny his steroid use for him.

OK, I'm convinced.

[houstonmacbro]

Would someone please explain how this ever became the business of the Senate?

I thought baseball was a self-regulated game.

Are musicians, artists and actors going to have to submit to drug testing, too?

Some of these Senate subcommittees don't make sense. Like what will the 'Senate' do ... I mean, c'mon ... they can't even run the country and they want to run baseball (or rock or rap music, and a whole host of other things).

And to think that this senator spent TWENTY months investigating this (I'm sure with a large staff).

Just boggles the mind.

[plumber2]

I always wondered why Clemens and Petit were such butt buddies. They were obvioulsy covering each others backs.

Now it's obvious why they both left for the Yankees. They realized that their gig might be up soon, so they may as well go for as many dollars as they can get while the goose is still laying eggs. To hell with all that loyalty crap.

Those eggs are going to be smelly eggs now and not as many dollars attached to them.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Baseball has been governing themselves, unabated for all these years. One of the few sports with no salary cap enforced, drug testing has been all a joke since they were the last to get on the band wagon. None of this should be surprising at all.

And if you are caught in the act, hire Rusty, he will invent some reasonable doubt.

[memebag]

Would someone please explain how this ever became the business of the Senate?

I thought baseball was a self-regulated game.

I will! Basically, baseball is exempt from anti-trust legislation, and to keep that exemption, it has to submit to congressional oversight. That's horribly over simplified, but it gives the flavor of the excuse politicans use to talk about baseball on the taxpayer's dime.

[sifuwong]

Clemens hired Rusty Hardin to deny his steroid use for him.OK, I'm convinced.

LOL! ...good one ! Edited December 14, 2007 by sifuwong

[crunchtastic]

Imagine.....no trip to Cooperstown for Clemens. You think they'll go that far? He's the one with the most to lose out of all this.

[sifuwong]

Imagine.....no trip to Cooperstown for Clemens. You think they'll go that far? He's the one with the most to lose out of all this.

They can't cuz if they do, then they have to let Bonds, McGwire, etc. in

[CDeb]

George Mitchell is not a Senator, he's a FORMER Senator. And Major League Baseball payed the full cost of the report.

[musicman]

They really nail Clemens. Maybe it will knock his inflated ego down a peg.

hopefully no more HEB commercials either.

[RedScare]

hopefully no more HEB commercials either.

What? Are you kidding me? Who better to advertise growth hormone injected chicken and beef than the guy who profited most from it.

Imagine the possibilities.

[musicman]

What? Are you kidding me? Who better to advertise growth hormone injected chicken and beef than the guy who profited most from it.

Imagine the possibilities.

LOL true dat.

[Fringe]

Clemens hired Rusty Hardin to deny his steroid use for him.

Hardins

[musicman]

hiring hardin to deny being hardened.

[TJones]

What the hell is Clemens worried about. So what if he was doing 'roids ! All the guys he struck out were doing 'roids. I see an even playing field here.

Edited December 14, 2007 by TJones

[RedScare]

Hardins

[west20th]

hiring hardin to deny being hardened.

Is that the famous "F-you Rusty" of Anna Nichol fame?

[Mark F. Barnes]

The one and only "F-You" Rusty Hardin

[dbigtex56]

I will! Basically, baseball is exempt from anti-trust legislation, and to keep that exemption, it has to submit to congressional oversight. That's horribly over simplified, but it gives the flavor of the excuse politicans use to talk about baseball on the taxpayer's dime.

Thanks!

Not everyone can so clearly explain tortured logic.

Can we look forward to the same level of scrutiny for football?

Is that the famous "F-you Rusty" of Anna Nichol fame?

In defense of A.N. (never thought I'd utter those words), she said "Screw you, Rusty."

Throughout Houston it quickly became known as the "Anna and Rusty Show" thanks to a heated six-day cross-examination by Pierce Marshall's attorney. When he asked her on the stand if she'd been taking new acting lessons, she responded, "Screw you, Rusty."

source: ABC News

[lockmat]

What the hell is Clemens worried about. So what if he was doing 'roids ! All the guys he struck out were doing 'roids. I see an even playing field here.

Don't know if there's sarcasm there or not. But i guess Bonds gets a pass, too.

[sifuwong]

Don't know if there's sarcasm there or not. But i guess Bonds gets a pass, too.

Exactly. If Clemens gets a pass, so should Bonds, McGwire, etc.

[RedScare]

Andy Pettite admitted using HGH today.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3156305

In effect, Pettite confirmed that what his trainer told Mitchell's people was true. The trainer, and Pettite, said that he used HGH on two occasions to heal from an elbow injury quicker. The problem for Roger Clemens is that Rusty Hardin is basing his defense on the uncorroborated statements of a "troubled man". Andy just corroborated the trainer's statements, inadvertantly torpedoeing Clemens.

What say you, Rusty?

[lockmat]

Andy Pettite admitted using HGH today.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3156305

In effect, Pettite confirmed that what his trainer told Mitchell's people was true. The trainer, and Pettite, said that he used HGH on two occasions to heal from an elbow injury quicker. The problem for Roger Clemens is that Rusty Hardin is basing his defense on the uncorroborated statements of a "troubled man". Andy just corroborated the trainer's statements, inadvertantly torpedoeing Clemens.

What say you, Rusty?

Do you think this will affect their relationship? Ouch.

[RedScare]

Do you think this will affect their relationship? Ouch.

Not really. Andy did not say anything about Clemens. And, to be fair, Andy did not corroborate any of the allegations against Clemens. BUT, Rusty Hardin has suggested that nothing that this trainer said has been corroborated, and that he should not be believed just because he is a shady character. Well, now some of what he said HAS been corroborated, and by Clemens' friend and training partner. So, logic is not on Clemens' side, because logic suggests that the allegations are true.

Another tactic by Hardin is that McNamee (the trainer) was threatened with federal prosecution, so his statements are not credible...in other words, suggesting that McNamee lied to keep from getting indicted. Well, we know he told the truth about Pettite. Does it make any sense that he would then LIE about Clemens...especially, since the deal was to tell the TRUTH or go to jail?

Since there will be no prosecutions, the only court is the court of public opinion. My court of opinion says Clemens juiced. Your mileage may vary.

[sifuwong]

Not really. Andy did not say anything about Clemens. And, to be fair, Andy did not corroborate any of the allegations against Clemens. BUT, Rusty Hardin has suggested that nothing that this trainer said has been corroborated, and that he should not be believed just because he is a shady character. Well, now some of what he said HAS been corroborated, and by Clemens' friend and training partner. So, logic is not on Clemens' side, because logic suggests that the allegations are true.

Another tactic by Hardin is that McNamee (the trainer) was threatened with federal prosecution, so his statements are not credible...in other words, suggesting that McNamee lied to keep from getting indicted. Well, we know he told the truth about Pettite. Does it make any sense that he would then LIE about Clemens...especially, since the deal was to tell the TRUTH or go to jail?

Since there will be no prosecutions, the only court is the court of public opinion. My court of opinion says Clemens juiced. Your mileage may vary.

Roger needs to come clean. If he keeps denying it, there will be more stories that could make it even more shameful. Just come clean since this country is so forgiving. Come clean and move on! I remember back when Ken Caminiti was still alive. He said over 60% of MLB are using steroids, but everyone blew him off. I guess not anymore.

Oh BTW,..Jose Canseco has some 'stuff' on Alex Rodriguez also. He will put it in his next book. I heard that he will also add a list that the Mitchell report DID NOT include.

[SecondTour]

Pettitte coming clean certainly helps the credibility of the document and hurts the credibility of the players denying it. Hats off to Pettitte for being honest, even if it was forced.

Here's an interesting graph that ran in The Times a few days ago.

Looks like the only thing Roger gained was an extended carrer (possibly).

His ERA was above his average for most of his alleged steroid years.

[sifuwong]

Pettitte coming clean certainly helps the credibility of the document and hurts the credibility of the players denying it. Hats off to Pettitte for being honest, even if it was forced.

Here's an interesting graph that ran in The Times a few days ago.

Looks like the only thing Roger gained was an extended carrer (possibly).

His ERA was above his average for most of his alleged steroid years.

So as a result of his extended career, he got more $$$$. I guess that is the bottom line for these players.

Edited December 17, 2007 by sifuwong

[lockmat]

Holy Friggin Cow. This is huge. This phone call and press conference was crazy.

[Chris]

Holy Friggin Cow. This is huge. This phone call and press conference was crazy.

Yeah, It was crazy. I watched the entire conference live on ABC 13's 4 pm Newscast. They couldn't show the phonecall due to explicit language. After the phonecall they came back in the conference live and Roger answered questions until one reporter asked one that kinda pushed one of his buttuns. He then left out of the room after about 25 minutes of answering questions. I personally don not believe Roger Clemens took steroids. But then again, why would someone make this whole thing up.