lockmat Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3152573Major League Baseball and the Players Association share the blame for tolerating a widespread culture of drug abuse, George Mitchell's report on doping in baseball says, according to two lawyers who said they are familiar with the report. The sources would not reveal the names of players included in the report, but confirmed that as many as 80 are listed. One lawyer expected several "very, very high-level names" to be exposed, although Mitchell is frank in the report about how difficult it was to get information regarding the extent of player use. Is anyone concened that Bagwell's name might be included? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3152573Major League Baseball and the Players Association share the blame for tolerating a widespread culture of drug abuse, George Mitchell's report on doping in baseball says, according to two lawyers who said they are familiar with the report. The sources would not reveal the names of players included in the report, but confirmed that as many as 80 are listed. One lawyer expected several "very, very high-level names" to be exposed, although Mitchell is frank in the report about how difficult it was to get information regarding the extent of player use. Is anyone concened that Bagwell's name might be included?I would not be surprised, put it that way. But this whole commission is a joke, given George Mitchell's ties to baseball money and Selig.I was pleased about the Tejada trade, though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KimberlySayWhat Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 This should be interesting. What time will it be released our time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 This should be interesting. What time will it be released our time?1pm I think. And there will be two or three more press conferences following it every hour or so, each one representing a different side of baseball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 ESPN is reporting that Clemens is in there.http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153129I almost posted Clemens earlier when lockmat asked about Bagwell. But, I figured everyone would jump me for it, and decided not to say it. Guess my suspicion was correct.I had read awhile back that according to the experts, pitchers would actually gain more advantage from steroids than hitters. Combine that with Clemens apparent superhuman ability to continue pitching well into his 40s, and I thought he would be a suspect. But, he was never caught, so it will never be more than a suspicion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Petite to be named as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Is this any surprise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 None whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 ESPN is reporting that Clemens is in there.http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153129I almost posted Clemens earlier when lockmat asked about Bagwell. But, I figured everyone would jump me for it, and decided not to say it. Guess my suspicion was correct.I had read awhile back that according to the experts, pitchers would actually gain more advantage from steroids than hitters. Combine that with Clemens apparent superhuman ability to continue pitching well into his 40s, and I thought he would be a suspect. But, he was never caught, so it will never be more than a suspicion.I could see how they'd gain more of an advantage. I'm sure it's hard play every day for that long of a season, but pitching is really tough on the entire body, not just the arm. Did anyone of you pitch as a kid? Your entire body hurts when you're finished. And to do that at their age the amount of times they do it has got to be really tough.Not to mention even 2 mph on a fastball or any other pitch can make a big difference.But yeah, I don't think there is one player that would surprise me if they were called out; not one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 update: Tejada in report. Also Eric Gagne and Loduca. Gagne sure is a shocker, eh? Such a scronny guy.http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5375472.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirzania Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Personally, I am shocked, SHOCKED, that drugs are still used in professional sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ V Lawrence Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 It sucks that three out of the four biggest name players in the report are current or former Astros (Clements, Pettite,and Tejada). It's also clear to me that Baltimore wanted to trade Tejada before this report came out just in case, and while they could get the most out of it. There's no way the Astros would have traded five players for an alleged steroid user AFTER the Mitchell report came out. Wade was dumb for not waiting until after this report to trade for Tejada. Perhaps the 'Stros wouldn't have had to give up as much for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromsc2tx Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Complete list hereNEW NAMESChad Allen Mike Bell Gary Bennett Larry Bigbie Kevin Brown Alex Cabrera Mark Carreon Jason Christiansen Howie Clark Roger Clemens Jack Cust Brendan Donnelly Chris Donnels Matt Franco Eric Gagne Matt Herges Phil Hiatt Glenallen Hill Todd Hundley Mike Judd David Justice Chuck Knoblauch Tim Laker Mike Lansing Paul Lo Duca Nook Logan Josias Manzanillo Cody McKay Kent Mercker Bart Miadich Hal Morris Daniel Naulty Denny Neagle Jim Parque Andy Pettitte Adam Piatt Todd Pratt Stephen Randolph Adam Riggs Armando Rios Brian Roberts F.P. Santangelo Mike Stanton Ricky Stone Miguel Tejada Ismael Valdez Mo Vaughn Ron Villone Fernando Vina Rondell White Jeff Williams Todd Williams Steve Woodard Kevin Young Gregg ZaunPREVIOUSLY LINKEDManny Alexander Rick Ankiel David Bell Marvin Benard Barry Bonds Ricky Bones Paul Byrd Jose Canseco Paxton Crawford Lenny Dykstra Bobby Estalella Ryan Franklin Jason Giambi Jeremy Giambi Jay Gibbons Troy Glaus Juan Gonzalez Jason Grimsley Jose Guillen Jerry Hairston Jr. Darren Holmes Ryan Jorgensen Gary Matthews Jr. Rafael Palmeiro John Rocker Benito Santiago Scott Schoeneweis David Segui Gary Sheffield Randy Velarde Matt Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Everyone keep in mind, that this report is ALL hearsay, no hard evidence to back it up, that is why everything is to be forgiven and forgotten, and we move on. The next one to fail a drug test will get the book thrown at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Everyone keep in mind, that this report is ALL hearsay, no hard evidence to back it up, that is why everything is to be forgiven and forgotten, and we move on. The next one to fail a drug test will get the book thrown at them.Not on Clemens and Pettite. That is a direct statement by the guy who stuck 'em with the needle. No hearsay there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromsc2tx Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Also, there's photographic evidence of players meeting with "Trainers", as well as copies of checks written to pay said trainers.I wonder if Clemen's commercial for AT&T wireless will be pulled off the air......Of course, John Rocker will claim some blacks on a subway injected him without him knowing about it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Of course, John Rocket will claim some blacks on a subway injected him without him knowing about it.... Post Of The Day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brerrabbit Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Hearsay as in not acceptable in a court of law? There looks to be some pretty damning evidence in the actual report. I looked at and while I admit I have not read every word the report looks pretty dang complete. The guy in the Mets organization that supplied the stuff has copies of all the checks from the people he was supplying. He also said he hooked Clemens up while he was still in Toronto and then rejoined him in New York when the Yankees with a strong push from Clemens hired him as a trainer. The guy came to Houston in the off season to train Clemens and both Petite and Clemens up until today a least were still supporting the guy and singing his praises.But as someone else said it all means little or nothing because without an actual drug test to show the use of banned substances after the league put the rule in place in 2005 then MLB can take no actions. While these guys may be tainted they cannot and more than likely will not be punished by MLB. Now the court of public opinion is another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 They really nail Clemens. Maybe it will knock his inflated ego down a peg. Tejada, our new shortstop is also on the list. Hope he will be able to perform without his droids. I'm glad not to see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ V Lawrence Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 According to ESPN, Tejada's name and story are in the report stating that he specifically asked fellow teammate Piatt if he had any steroids, and he later gave him a certain steroid and growth hormone enhancer. However, he "emphasized" that he has no idea doesn't know if Tejada ever actually used the substance. If that's all there is in the story (I haven't read and don't plan to read the Mitchell Report) there's nothing in the report that implements that there's proof that Tejada actually took steroids. If there's more to that story, feel free to post it, but that's all I heard from the news report because I'm too lazy to read a 300+ page document on magical pills and needles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbigtex56 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Would someone please explain how this ever became the business of the Senate?I thought baseball was a self-regulated game. Are musicians, artists and actors going to have to submit to drug testing, too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Clemens hired Rusty Hardin to deny his steroid use for him.OK, I'm convinced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonmacbro Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Would someone please explain how this ever became the business of the Senate?I thought baseball was a self-regulated game. Are musicians, artists and actors going to have to submit to drug testing, too?Some of these Senate subcommittees don't make sense. Like what will the 'Senate' do ... I mean, c'mon ... they can't even run the country and they want to run baseball (or rock or rap music, and a whole host of other things).And to think that this senator spent TWENTY months investigating this (I'm sure with a large staff).Just boggles the mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plumber2 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 I always wondered why Clemens and Petit were such butt buddies. They were obvioulsy covering each others backs.Now it's obvious why they both left for the Yankees. They realized that their gig might be up soon, so they may as well go for as many dollars as they can get while the goose is still laying eggs. To hell with all that loyalty crap. Those eggs are going to be smelly eggs now and not as many dollars attached to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark F. Barnes Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Baseball has been governing themselves, unabated for all these years. One of the few sports with no salary cap enforced, drug testing has been all a joke since they were the last to get on the band wagon. None of this should be surprising at all. And if you are caught in the act, hire Rusty, he will invent some reasonable doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Would someone please explain how this ever became the business of the Senate?I thought baseball was a self-regulated game.I will! Basically, baseball is exempt from anti-trust legislation, and to keep that exemption, it has to submit to congressional oversight. That's horribly over simplified, but it gives the flavor of the excuse politicans use to talk about baseball on the taxpayer's dime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifuwong Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Clemens hired Rusty Hardin to deny his steroid use for him.OK, I'm convinced.LOL! ...good one ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Imagine.....no trip to Cooperstown for Clemens. You think they'll go that far? He's the one with the most to lose out of all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifuwong Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Imagine.....no trip to Cooperstown for Clemens. You think they'll go that far? He's the one with the most to lose out of all this.They can't cuz if they do, then they have to let Bonds, McGwire, etc. in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDeb Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 George Mitchell is not a Senator, he's a FORMER Senator. And Major League Baseball payed the full cost of the report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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