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musicman

Black On Black Violence

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There's a reason I call them the Black KKK. The pain, the fear and the destruction are all the same.

Someone who loved Sean Taylor is crying right now. The life they knew has been destroyed, an 18-month-old baby lost her father, and, if you're a black man living in America, you've been reminded once again that your life is in constant jeopardy of violent death.

The Black KKK claimed another victim, a high-profile professional football player with a checkered past this time.

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I read a lot of sports commentary and have always enjoyed Whitlock's writing (if not always agreeing with it), but......

Wow! Just......wow!

In the history of all things that needed to be said, the sentiment of that column needed to be said the most.

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He also was (is?) an nba tv reporter.

Anyway, that was a great article.

I remember talking about this topic with my sister a few weeks ago after watching Cosby on Oprah. The sad thing is, the people that are involved in this are sort of in a rut; a cycle. I have my spiritual reasons as to how this can be overcomed. But since I know nobody will agree w/ me, I won't expound on it except for this: Only Christ in the end, can truly change someone. Sorry, but I have to have integrity with myself on this and say that's what I truly believe.

Beyond that...

The only way they'll stop this cycle is to change their own character. People need to look inside themselves and make a choice. Sure programs like Big Brothers/Big Sisters can help. Even people in those communities who have character can be influences. But that can only do so much. The parents are really the ones who need to be there. But how can a father be there for his kid when he's not living with them, he's in jail, he's on the street or he's with some other woman about to do the same thing to her?

He can't.

So what happens? The cycle continues. The kid grows up and knows nothing else. His dad was never there. All his friends dads were never there. That's how life is, right? So he does the same thing.

If he does not have that influence, who else can he turn to?

Himself.

I belive everyone knows in their heart of hearts what is right. These kids know too. They need to make a decision.

This article was great, but I'm affraid it might be falling on deaf ears. Are these kids gonna read this article? No. Are their daddies gonna read this article? Probably not.

Maybe I'm naive, but do they even know there are people out there who care about this "black on black" crime and that it stops? Do they know Oprah cares? That Cosby cares? That David Aldridge cares? Do they know you care? I don't know.

Maybe someone who came from inside that culture who now has a good head on their shoulders can shed some light.

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if someone is in denial about whether it is a problem, can they be helped?

i sent it to a black friend and her response was "whatever, they don't have to listen to hip hop, they choose to"

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if someone is in denial about whether it is a problem, can they be helped?

i sent it to a black friend and her response was "whatever, they don't have to listen to hip hop, they choose to"

did you take that to mean that she is in denial about the problem?

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He also was (is?) an nba tv reporter.

Anyway, that was a great article.

I remember talking about this topic with my sister a few weeks ago after watching Cosby on Oprah. The sad thing is, the people that are involved in this are sort of in a rut; a cycle. I have my spiritual reasons as to how this can be overcomed. But since I know nobody will agree w/ me, I won't expound on it except for this: Only Christ in the end, can truly change someone. Sorry, but I have to have integrity with myself on this and say that's what I truly believe.

Beyond that...

The only way they'll stop this cycle is to change their own character. People need to look inside themselves and make a choice. Sure programs like Big Brothers/Big Sisters can help. Even people in those communities who have character can be influences. But that can only do so much. The parents are really the ones who need to be there. But how can a father be there for his kid when he's not living with them, he's in jail, he's on the street or he's with some other woman about to do the same thing to her?

He can't.

So what happens? The cycle continues. The kid grows up and knows nothing else. His dad was never there. All his friends dads were never there. That's how life is, right? So he does the same thing.

If he does not have that influence, who else can he turn to?

Himself.

I belive everyone knows in their heart of hearts what is right. These kids know too. They need to make a decision.

This article was great, but I'm affraid it might be falling on deaf ears. Are these kids gonna read this article? No. Are their daddies gonna read this article? Probably not.

Maybe I'm naive, but do they even know there are people out there who care about this "black on black" crime and that it stops? Do they know Oprah cares? That Cosby cares? That David Aldridge cares? Do they know you care? I don't know.

Maybe someone who came from inside that culture who now has a good head on their shoulders can shed some light.

Well said my friend. It's a tragedy that the lack of responsible and or absent fathers has created this problem. I've read some disturbing studies on the HUGE problems caused by the increasing lack of fathers in the home. I feel fortunate that I had a good dad after stories like this.

I also agree with your spiritual sentiment.

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did you take that to mean that she is in denial about the problem?

at least a hint of it. i know some of cosby's comments also made her react

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at least a hint of it. i know some of cosby's comments also made her react

Well, I can't speak for your friend, but I'm black and I'm not in denial. There is a BIG problem and a myriad of reasons but I really don't know what 1 person could do. Like lockmat says, Big Brothers, Big Sisters can only do so much. Short of completely changing our justice system/legalizing many drugs, I don't see huge changes happening.

Edited by satriela

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Well, I can't speak for your friend, but I'm black and I'm not in denial. There is a BIG problem and a myriad of reasons but I really don't know what 1 person could do. Like lockmat says, Big Brothers, Big Sisters can only do so much. Short of completely changing our justice system/legalizing many drugs, I don't see huge changes happening.

I believe changes will be made only when fathers start taking responsibility for there actions. It's a problem replete throughout the community, and it's having devastating effects.

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Well, I can't speak for your friend, but I'm black and I'm not in denial. There is a BIG problem and a myriad of reasons but I really don't know what 1 person could do.
do you think lack of good parenting skills is exacerbating the issue?
I believe changes will be made only when fathers start taking responsibility for there actions.
i think both parents are responsible. the mother is just as responsible.

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How would legalizing drugs fix the problem?

In some communities, it would remove a lot of the incentive for violence. When a kid (to me any person under 17) gets sent to juvie for anything related to drugs, even something as simple as having or smoking a joint they get exposed to all kinds of ish, they get skewed, they get hardened. At some point an extended juvie stay is like throwing the kid's life away. I think that is stupid to do over a joint.

And that's just PART of the reason I think drugs should be legalized.

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do you think lack of good parenting skills is exacerbating the issue?i think both parents are responsible. the mother is just as responsible.

I don't know if its a lack of parenting skills or just a lack of parents. So many kids are getting raised by grandparents and let's face it, there is a reason childbearing age is so young: it takes a lot of energy to raise a kid. 1 parent households can and often DO work, but it takes an AMAZING person to make it happen. Often the parent in a 1 parent household has to work 2 jobs which gives them little time to "raise" the kid.

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In some communities, it would remove a lot of the incentive for violence. When a kid (to me any person under 17) gets sent to juvie for anything related to drugs, even something as simple as having or smoking a joint they get exposed to all kinds of ish, they get skewed, they get hardened.
if you were/are a parent, would you let your children smoke marijuana?

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if you were/are a parent, would you let your children smoke marijuana?

No. My parents were firmly anti-drug and I'll teach my kids that illegal drugs, while not having on whit of difference from legal drugs except legal status, are, just like legal drugs, not to be used except in dire emergencies under the direction of a qualified and trusted physician.

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if you were/are a parent, would you let your children smoke marijuana?

How can anyone stop their kids from smoking marijuana, unless you can lock them inside some kind of breathing aparatus or personally guard them 24 hours a day?

Or do you mean let them smoke it around you?

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if someone is in denial about whether it is a problem, can they be helped?

i sent it to a black friend and her response was "whatever, they don't have to listen to hip hop, they choose to"

Hip-hop isn't the problem (or atleast the good one that isn't played on the radio).

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How can anyone stop their kids from smoking marijuana, unless you can lock them inside some kind of breathing aparatus or personally guard them 24 hours a day?

Or do you mean let them smoke it around you?

i'll leave the question as is....but will add that any responsible parent would teach their child some type of morals. if a parent doesn't wonder what their child is doing while they aren't around, i'd question their parenting skills.

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i'll leave the question as is....but will add that any responsible parent would teach their child some type of morals. if a parent doesn't wonder what their child is doing while they aren't around, i'd question their parenting skills.

Do you have kids?

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I guess this is one of those, I have no kids, I don't even have someone who wants to make a baby with me, but guess what, let's play armchair parent.

Edited by webdude

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I guess this is one of those, I have no kids, I don't even have someone who wants to make a baby with me, but guess what, let's play armchair parent.

:lol: Awesome.

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I guess this is one of those, I have no kids, I don't even have someone who wants to make a baby with me, but guess what, let's play armchair parent.

yep it is! ;) only child i ever take care of is my nephew. being involved with him has definitely made a difference in several aspects. is he perfect? of course not.

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yep it is! ;) only child i ever take care of is my nephew. being involved with him has definitely made a difference in several aspects. is he perfect? of course not.
i'll leave the question as is....but will add that any responsible parent would teach their child some type of morals. if a parent doesn't wonder what their child is doing while they aren't around, i'd question their parenting skills.

I have a daughter, and I find the tone of your statements irksome. I won't ever allow her to smoke pot around me. I'll do my best to teach her to be healthy and to never, ever, ever go to jail. I teach her ethics more than morals. It's impossible not to worry about her when she isn't with me. But I acknowledge that a significant number of people (almost half the population, by some estimates) will try marijuana at some point. I'm less afraid of her smoking pot than I am of her smoking tobacco or drinking alcohol.

Part of being a parent is knowing that eventually your kids will do things you don't want them to do. I certainly did. All I can hope is that I've given her the tools to take care of herself.

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Hip-hop isn't the problem (or atleast the good one that isn't played on the radio).

Funny, I liked the old school raunchy, nasty hip hop like NWA. These new kids just don't have any sense of fun.

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i think both parents are responsible. the mother is just as responsible.

While it's true that a child is generally much healthier physically, and mentally with two parents, there are a myriad of studies showing the absence of fathers in the home are more devastating to the childs mindset while learning and growing. There are certainly wonderful mothers who have sacrificed their lives to raise their children, but they often end up being more of a father figure than a mother figure, which in general is not healthy. It's certainly not the way nature intended.

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I have a daughter, and I find the tone of your statements irksome.
didn't mean them to be irksome but rather point out that quite a few parents don't care what their children do, even while they are around. go to a store and see kids rip open toys to play with, run around unsupervised, etc. You are an involved parent which is what it takes to provide guidance.

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While it's true that a child is generally much healthier physically, and mentally with two parents, there are a myriad of studies showing the absence of fathers in the home are more devastating to the childs mindset while learning and growing. There are certainly wonderful mothers who have sacrificed their lives to raise their children, but they often end up being more of a father figure than a mother figure, which in general is not healthy. It's certainly not the way nature intended.

having both parents there is impt but if one is a flake, the other has to step up. a friend from college was a single parent with two children. even though she was in college fulltime, she was involved in their daily lives. helped them both to receive full scholarships to college, etc. they are in their late 20's/early 30's now and have definitely grown up to be responsible.

Edited by musicman

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having both parents there is impt but if one is a flake, the other has to step up. a friend from college was a single parent with two children. even though she was in college fulltime, she was involved in their daily lives. helped them both to receive full scholarships to college, etc. they are in their late 20's/early 30's now and have definitely grown up to be responsible.

I certainly didn't mean to imply that a single parent, or one responsible parent can't raise a good child. I was simply stating the facts of what happens to "most" children who grow up in a fatherless home.

I absolutely agree with your earlier post that even kids with both parents lack a lot of supervision these days. It seems as if parents want to be buddies with their children, which imo is not healthy. I love my kids and would die a thousand deaths for them, however I am not their buddy, I'm their father.

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I absolutely agree with your earlier post that even kids with both parents lack a lot of supervision these days. It seems as if parents want to be buddies with their children, which imo is not healthy. I love my kids and would die a thousand deaths for them, however I am not their buddy, I'm their father.

i was out with my mom earlier and two mothers and their 3 children were out at a resale shop. the kids were running around while and a store employee told them they had to stay with their mother. the mother said something to them but kept on shopping. didn't even phase them.

my mom brought up another incident where a 3 or so yr old was pushing a 2 yr old in a cart. of course they hit my mom in the back with the cart. she asked them where their mother was and she came walkin up from 3 aisles over. the mother said "forgive them they are only children" my mom told her "i forgive them, it's you that should take responsibility for you children" of course the lady was pissed.

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Bill_Cosby.jpg

"I brought you into this world, and I'll take you out".

"....and it don't matter to me cause I'll make another one that looks just like you!"

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"I brought you into this world, and I'll take you out".

Wow! Bill Cosby is the root of black on black violence.

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Whitlock is absolutely brilliant. He's on Fox Sports now, but he was formerly on AOL Sports. I don't think it's possible to access his old AOL articles, but they were spectacular. The first one he wrote about the Black KKK was inspired I believe by what he observed in Las Vegas for the NBA All-Star Game in early 2007. He also had some great commentary to offer on the whole Don Imus thing. For those people who would like to make sweeping generalizations about Black American opinion every time Jackson or Sharpton become annoying, I'd refer them to Whitlock in a heartbeat.

I agree with satriela's comments regarding drugs. Whether or not you agree with the illegality of drugs like marijuana, the fact remains that small time, nonviolent drug offenders are punished way too severely and that this contributes in no small part to "the cycle".

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Whitlock isn't brilliant but add Clarence Thomas, associate justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, to that list.

He writes about the cultural problems within the black community in his memoir My Grandfather's Son describing the politics behind those movements courting the Black vote and condemning them for undermining African Americans' ability to be self-reliant. He voices his frustration with shedding the expectation, because of his skin color, to be a liberal and suffering the ramifications for not doing so, such as being called an Uncle Tom, and actually discusses black racism. (It's refreshing to see an American with dark skin not blaming a white person for anything; wish it happened more often).

Bill Cosby's new book Come on, People is similar but less political---focusing more on the failed parenting, low class behavior, and substandard speech of Blacks--and it too doesn't blame white people. Whitlock, to his credit, and like both Thomas andCosby, focuses his attention where it needs to be--on the community members; Blacks can't have a decent neighborhood, or anything else including longevity, without accepting personal respnsibility.

So drop the MaryJane and the crack pipe Satriela and stop making inane arguments supporting drug usage-- put away the obscene hip-hop lyrics Trae and spend more time reading real poetry and learning the classics. If more Blacks acted like productive, repsonsible grown-ups, our country would be much better off.

We may actually be moving away from focusing on skin color to focusing on character in this country.

Edited by Toggle3

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Whitlock is absolutely brilliant. He's on Fox Sports now, but he was formerly on AOL Sports. I don't think it's possible to access his old AOL articles, but they were spectacular. The first one he wrote about the Black KKK was inspired I believe by what he observed in Las Vegas for the NBA All-Star Game in early 2007. He also had some great commentary to offer on the whole Don Imus thing. For those people who would like to make sweeping generalizations about Black American opinion every time Jackson or Sharpton become annoying, I'd refer them to Whitlock in a heartbeat.

I agree with satriela's comments regarding drugs. Whether or not you agree with the illegality of drugs like marijuana, the fact remains that small time, nonviolent drug offenders are punished way too severely and that this contributes in no small part to "the cycle".

Mojeaux, try using web.archive.org. His articles *might* be on there.

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You can't be naive enough to believe that 200+ years of institutional slavery and then many more years (hundreds) of institutional racism against black people hasn't had an effect on blacks today in many ways (probably more than will ever be known).

Nevertheless, I am not one to blame white people for everything. I'm just saying that America's history does affect its present.

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So drop the MaryJane and the crack pipe Satriela and stop making inane arguments supporting drug usage

Wow, Toggle, I don't think I've ever been so pissed at reading someone's post in my entire life. First of all, if you are going to direct a comment to someone why don't you make sure that you READ what they wrote. Never have I made a statement supporting drug usage. NEVER. In fact, HERE is my direct quote:

No. My parents were firmly anti-drug and I'll teach my kids that illegal drugs, while not having on whit of difference from legal drugs except legal status, are, just like legal drugs, not to be used except in dire emergencies under the direction of a qualified and trusted physician.

It is the height of arrogance to insinuate that someone does drugs because they want them legalized. If someone defends homosexual marriage, must they be gay? For your information, I DON'T DO DRUGS. People like you make me sick. You write posts that say:

If more Blacks acted like productive, repsonsible grown-ups, our country would be much better off.

You make such blatantly offensive posts only because you are obviously ignorant of WHITE PRIVILEGE .

Why don't you take the sheet off your head for a minute and read about it?

http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/~mcisaac/emc598ge/Unpacking.html

http://www.dickshovel.com/priv.html

http://www.tolerance.org/news/article_tol.jsp?id=722

Edited by satriela

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Affirmative Action and racial quotas are evil; embracing the myth of white privilege and/or oppression is worse.

Who are these whites you talk about? Are they the Scottish, French, or the Poles? Descendants of the Mayflower or only those pale faces living in the 7500 block of Westheimer? Race-baiting is a nasty business Satriela. People are just people ---regardless of their skin color.

As to white privilege, I've never seen this--is it like Hispanic privilege here in Houston? You know, being hired because of the ability to speak Spanish or being promoted based on surname. Privilege is as privilege does. Money is reallly the only privilege in America.

Edited by Toggle3

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Privilege is as privilege does. Money is reallly the only privilege in America.

Agreed. Money is the new equalizer.

Don't have any money (white, black, whatever)?

So sad, too bad...

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Money is reallly the only privilege in America.

Very true. This is one of the things that people outside of the United States see, but we as Americans are often blind to.

Once when I was between jobs I took a gig as a chauffeur. I would do runs in and out of Dulles Airport and drive people sometimes hours away to places in Pennsylvania, Maryland, and beyond. This was back in the early 90's when Dulles was the only airport in America that Aeroflot was allowed to fly into and so a lot of the people I picked up were from recently liberated Soviet bloc countries.

One of the common themes in our conversations (because I was often their first contact with a mythical "American") was about how amazing it is that in America everyone is equal. While many Americans don't see it because we see the fine grain of inequality, compared to most other countries we have a very level playing field.

My fares were always amazed that no matter what color your skin, who your parents were, where you came from, or what you looked like as long as you were smart and were willing to work hard you could be a success in this nation. It's still true today. Black or white as long as you have money you can do whatever you want. Live wherever you want. Be whatever you want.

Compare that with other countries where even if you have lots of money you still can't live where you want or how you want or travel as freely as you want. In a lot of countries there are people who are very rich who still live segregated lives because of their ethnicity, politics, or family lineage.

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I'm angry that, as of 2004, according to the Centers for Disease Control, homicide is the No. 1 cause of death among black men ages of 15 to 34

amazing statistic!

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That article doesn't really "counter" Whitlock at all. If anything, it seems like the author misinterpreted Whitlock's neologism (or at least took one aspect of it and ran with it). I do wish voices like Whitlock's were heard more often whenever a racial controversy occurs, but I would also ask other whites to think more about race and to consider the effects of historical white privilege.

Editor is right about money, but white privilege is responsible for much of the assets that whites hold. I'd direct y'all to this guy: http://www.timwise.org/

Also, for a great conversation about Affirmative Action, please see: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...toryId=16337441

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