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City View Place Perry Homes East Of Downtown


webbbr

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Hi all,

I am considering buying a townhome in this area, and I was wondering if you guys thought it would be a good investment. Do you think the area just east of 59 near downtown will develop soon? I know there are several new townhome complexes being built there and it's near the new park downtown, but I wanted to get the group's opinion on the area's potential. Also, I'm wondering how flood-prone this area is.

Here's one of the complexes I'm considering:

http://www.perryhomes.com/Find-Your-Home/H...View-Place.aspx

Edited by webbbr
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I actually drove through that hood on Saturday out of curiosity, and it was pretty sketchy. The neighborhood houses are very run down looking, and it seems to be a very poor area, although the town homes look fine. Have you walked around the neighborhood to check it out yet?

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Yes. It's not a very nice area now, but a developer (Parra Design) told me they were planning on building over 100 new townhomes right across the street in the next 2 years (they already own the land), and for some reason this area reminds me of Rice Military a couple years back. It's definitely not developed now, but I'm just wondering about potential for the next 5 years.

I actually drove through that hood on Saturday out of curiosity, and it was pretty sketchy. The neighborhood houses are very run down looking, and it seems to be a very poor area, although the town homes look fine. Have you walked around the neighborhood to check it out yet?
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At the price range on the website, you should be able to find something along the Washington corridor. Parts of it are still sketchy, but I would put a much higher probability on an investment along Washington paying out more in the long run than east of 59. Had some friends that moved out of the Lofts at the Ballpark recently because of bad elements in the area and increased car break-ins.

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if you have a positive attitude, then your experience will be easier. just remember it is more of an industrial area therefore you will encounter things that occur in an industrial area. less retail, train traffic, etc. if you don't expect trains to leave the area, and don't expect borders to move in then you'll be a lot happier.

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Yes. It's not a very nice area now, but a developer (Parra Design) told me they were planning on building over 100 new townhomes right across the street in the next 2 years (they already own the land), and for some reason this area reminds me of Rice Military a couple years back. It's definitely not developed now, but I'm just wondering about potential for the next 5 years.

Put "Warehouse District" in search and you'll see that we've talked about the area a lot, in case you haven't yet. I think it is booming exactly like Rice Military did a few years back, and will end up as a pure townhouse/industrial area when the sketch becomes reality. One difference is that converting from industrial to townhomes, instead of from single family as in RM, allows builders to create larger projects, so the place will look different than RM, where you've got distinct townhome clusters on small lots. Another is that RM has established retail areas that only needed to convert to meet the needs of the new residents, whereas the WD needs retail to be mostly created from scratch, which might end up looking great but will take longer. Also, WD will have rail nearby, RM won't. The soccer stadium will bring seasonal traffic and there are homeless shelters around where peripheral wandering is a feature.

I'm surprised how expensive those Perrys are. The price drops as you head east into the single family nabes which are just beginning to catch fire, and those have a lot of potential to be nice sites with the existing trees and retail.

I suspect that there will be a development stalemate in the future when the cheap lots are all sold and the others are holding out for the big bucks, sort of like Midtown today. I'm not sure if that's helped resale in Midtown or not.

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if you have a positive attitude, then your experience will be easier. just remember it is more of an industrial area therefore you will encounter things that occur in an industrial area. less retail, train traffic, etc. if you don't expect trains to leave the area, and don't expect borders to move in then you'll be a lot happier.

THe area where these townhouses is across the 45 from the "warehouse district", and the surrounding area is a low income residential area (3rd ward) with lots of empty space. It's near Emancipation Park right? It's not industrial at all, although the industrial area is not very far.

GOOGLE MAP

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THe area where these townhouses is across the 45 from the "warehouse district", and the surrounding area is a low income residential area (3rd ward) with lots of empty space. It's near Emancipation Park right? It's not industrial at all, although the industrial area is not very far.

GOOGLE MAP

You're right, my mistake. Hope I didn't confuse you. Webbrr. :blush:

Wow, I'm really surprised at those prices then for that area. That's a part of 3rd Ward that looks to be going into full remake but I don't know much as far as the myth/reality over there.

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You're right, my mistake. Hope I didn't confuse you. Webbrr. :blush:

Wow, I'm really surprised at those prices then for that area. That's a part of 3rd Ward that looks to be going into full remake but I don't know much as far as the myth/reality over there.

my bad too guess the comparison to rice military threw me off. i wouldnt call that east of downtown but rather southeast/3rdward. webbrr, i have a friend who lives in those, if you want i can get his email for you. he was just over last night with his gf. hutchins had lots of crack houses right across the street from that complex. they have been dozed, but there're still people dealin on the street even though you can see the police station. i have ridden my bike through there during day and have had no problem.

are you looking at an inner or outer unit? the inner units were shorter and had absolutely no view.

Edited by danax
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The prices seem high to me. That area is a LONG way from being anything like a nice place to live. I think the discount for that location vs. townhomes Midtown, Montrose, Upper Kirby, Washington Corridor, etc. should be MUCH higher. I see those townhouses being sold to people moving to Houston from out of town who want to be close to downtown, but don't know enough about Houston's inner loop neighborhoods to make a better choice. This area is really on the fringe.

To compare this area to Rice Military is just silly. Rice Military is only a few blocks from Memorial Park, one of Houston's most desireable amenities. Rice Military is one the white hot Washington retail, restaurant, bar corridor. Don't expect anything like Washington Aveneue to develop on the east side in the next 20 years. Rice Military is super close to I-10 and 610 giving easy acess to Houston's freeway system. Rice Military is closer to River Oaks, closer to the Galleria, closer to lots of things.

There's a reason that the three most important things about real estate are: location, location, location. This is not a desirable location. You're better off finding something 5-10 years old in a much better neighborhood for about the same price or a little more.

bpe3

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The prices seem high to me. That area is a LONG way from being anything like a nice place to live. I think the discount for that location vs. townhomes Midtown, Montrose, Upper Kirby, Washington Corridor, etc. should be MUCH higher. I see those townhouses being sold to people moving to Houston from out of town who want to be close to downtown, but don't know enough about Houston's inner loop neighborhoods to make a better choice. This area is really on the fringe.

To compare this area to Rice Military is just silly. Rice Military is only a few blocks from Memorial Park, one of Houston's most desireable amenities. Rice Military is one the white hot Washington retail, restaurant, bar corridor. Don't expect anything like Washington Aveneue to develop on the east side in the next 20 years. Rice Military is super close to I-10 and 610 giving easy acess to Houston's freeway system. Rice Military is closer to River Oaks, closer to the Galleria, closer to lots of things.

There's a reason that the three most important things about real estate are: location, location, location. This is not a desirable location. You're better off finding something 5-10 years old in a much better neighborhood for about the same price or a little more.

bpe3

Letting aside that the neighborhood that this discussion is actually centered around is actually directly south of downtown, not east, I think you're underestimating the long-term potentials for both the East End and Third Ward.

Look at what Rice Military and the areas around Washington Avenue were like 20 years ago...even 10 years ago. And look at what Fourth Ward was like even five years ago. It has gotten to the point at which land prices in Rice Military, the Heights, Montrose, Midtown around River Oaks, etc. are just too high to accomodate the full spectrum of market demand for it, so that many households get priced out of those areas but still want to live reasonably close to the action and be able to afford a nice new home with nice finishes.

With more households and better demographics, things change. Memorial Park is unique; there'll never be another one. But the south/southeast side is influenced by the nearby Herman Park and can also draw from the large MacGregor Park, while the East End has a large Mason Park; each of these have bayou frontage. Buffalo Bayou Park is nice, but with each passing year trails and landscaping are added along the wide rivers that flow through the East End. River Oaks Country Club has a golf course; the East End has the Gus Wortham Golf Course and is getting a new clubhouse. Rice Military has essentially no influence from local universities; the Third Ward has both UH and TSU, and UH has an aggressive expansion plan with intentions to create more on-campus student housing. Rice Military has easy access to I-10 and semi-easy access to the 610 Loop, depending on whether its rush hour; the East End and Third Ward have essentially no congestion and have access to I-45, US 59, and SH 288.

There'll never be a Galleria area type office and retail cluster along the East Loop, but to the extent that housing prices are just too high to support many households that want to live in those areas and to the extent that the East End and Third Ward already have essential neighborhood infrastructure and is getting more such infrastructure than more stable neighborhoods, it is evident that this area has a future within a very reasonable time horizon.

Edited by TheNiche
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No joke... I was viewing some lofts in that area a few months ago and as we were walking in the front door a crack head ran up to us and tried to sell us 14k gold jewelry! Needless to say, my girlfriend was scared enough to not even look inside the loft and we left. If stuff like that happen in broad daylight, imagine what can happen at night..... Safety for yourself and your family should be #1

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People have a short memory or are too young to remember, I don't know which, but Washington was as rough as Dowling Street is now. When I lived on Decatur, (1999 to 2004), one block south of Washington, I had crack-heads knock on my door more than once. My living experience in the "fashionable" Hobby area has been calmer than when I lived off Washington. When I worked at Memorial Club and Washington & Wescott a dozen or so years ago, we had residents that got jumped walking their dogs east of the property.

But that has all (or mostly) changed in a very short time.

That's not to say that there shouldn't be a big discount for being the "urban pioneer" in an area, or that there are better locations for that price, but my point I guess is a lot of people just don't see the potential in emerging neighborhoods. Personally I think the areas north of 45 will change faster. There are larger blocks of land to buy up for redevelopment. If the real estate slow down really slows down, then redevelopment could stall and what you see over there is what you get in the 3rd ward area.

Otherwise I think a lot of the points Niche brings up are very accurate. There is a ton of potential over there.

Edited by rps324
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Letting aside that the neighborhood that this discussion is actually centered around is actually directly south of downtown, not east, I think you're underestimating the long-term potentials for both the East End and Third Ward.

I know exactly where this place is. It's just not a good neighborhood. I suspect it will be better in 20 years, but it will always play second fiddle to Houston's more established neighborhoods. They will be better in 20 years too.

The original post asked about the investment potential of the neighborhood. To me it seems like a total waste of money to spend $285,000 to live here: Perry when you can spend the exact same amount of money and live here: Also Perry

Invest in a crappy location and hope it gets better someday or invest in a vastly superior location that is getting even better by the day???? It's a no brainer.

The East End and the Third Ward may have all the potential in the world, but an investor should receive a steep discount for assuming the risk that the potential is never realized AND for the time it takes for the potential to be reached. I don't think the relative discount between the two neighborhoods comes even close to mirroring the vast differences between the two.

bpe3

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I think the area has great potential. I bought a single lot there near 59 on McGowen a few months ago in the spring. I would venture to guess that I could get 50% more than what I paid for it already because of the rapid development in that area. Just since April, the old bar near the corner of St. Emanuel and McGowen has been torn down. Almost one whole side of Hutchins across from the Perry homes has been torn down for townhouses and a decent hotel is slated to be going in on the corner of 59 and McGowen. From McGowen over one block between St. Emanuel and Hutchins you will see that block completely change into a townhouse development within the next year. This area is already exploding incredibly fast. From Dowling to 59 that area will be all nice townhouses with downtown views within 2 years. I think it has just started over there and will transform quicker than Midtown.

I bought a townhouse across 59 from there in Midtown 5 years ago. I had looked at some of them even 2 years earlier than that, but decided Midtown was still too sketchy. In the last 5 years virtually EVERY house or business older than 5-10 years has been replaced with a townhome development. New streets have also been put and the park in that area received a major overhaul. In only 7 years that area around McGowen and Chenevert has gone from a sketchy area to the new home of $300 to 400k townhomes. New construction prices were $175-200k 5 years ago. Now nothing new is being built there for under $300k. Even with a slow housing market, I sold that townhouse a couple of months ago for roughly 25% more than what I paid. The trend is continuing across 59 since you still have all the same access to everything in Midtown and downtown plus can get incredible views of downtown. Are there CURRENTLY more people walking the streets (druggies, homeless, etc), yes. With a brand new police station within two blocks and police constantly driving through the area to get back to the station, it is only going to get better over there.

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I think the area has great potential. I bought a single lot there near 59 on McGowen a few months ago in the spring. I would venture to guess that I could get 50% more than what I paid for it already because of the rapid development in that area. Just since April, the old bar near the corner of St. Emanuel and McGowen has been torn down. Almost one whole side of Hutchins across from the Perry homes has been torn down for townhouses and a decent hotel is slated to be going in on the corner of 59 and McGowen. From McGowen over one block between St. Emanuel and Hutchins you will see that block completely change into a townhouse development within the next year. This area is already exploding incredibly fast. From Dowling to 59 that area will be all nice townhouses with downtown views within 2 years. I think it has just started over there and will transform quicker than Midtown.

I bought a townhouse across 59 from there in Midtown 5 years ago. I had looked at some of them even 2 years earlier than that, but decided Midtown was still too sketchy. In the last 5 years virtually EVERY house or business older than 5-10 years has been replaced with a townhome development. New streets have also been put and the park in that area received a major overhaul. In only 7 years that area around McGowen and Chenevert has gone from a sketchy area to the new home of $300 to 400k townhomes. New construction prices were $175-200k 5 years ago. Now nothing new is being built there for under $300k. Even with a slow housing market, I sold that townhouse a couple of months ago for roughly 25% more than what I paid. The trend is continuing across 59 since you still have all the same access to everything in Midtown and downtown plus can get incredible views of downtown. Are there CURRENTLY more people walking the streets (druggies, homeless, etc), yes. With a brand new police station within two blocks and police constantly driving through the area to get back to the station, it is only going to get better over there.

Oh and by the way, don't forget the improvements and growth that is proposed for U of H not too far down the street. If anything like what is proposed goes in over the next few years, that certainly can't hurt either.

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This area is already exploding incredibly fast. From Dowling to 59 that area will be all nice townhouses with downtown views within 2 years. I think it has just started over there and will transform quicker than Midtown.

...................................In only 7 years that area around McGowen and Chenevert has gone from a sketchy area to the new home of $300 to 400k townhomes. New construction prices were $175-200k 5 years ago. Now nothing new is being built there for under $300k. Even with a slow housing market, I sold that townhouse a couple of months ago for roughly 25% more than what I paid. The trend is continuing across 59 since you still have all the same access to everything in Midtown and downtown plus can get incredible views of downtown. Are there CURRENTLY more people walking the streets (druggies, homeless, etc), yes. With a brand new police station within two blocks and police constantly driving through the area to get back to the station, it is only going to get better over there.

I think then that they must be marketing these as a discounted version of Midtown, which explains what seems like a high price for the location.

I went by on the way home this afternoon. I haven't been by there in a few months and the transformation is amazing. It was only 2 and a half years ago that we were discussing the area here (a HAIF flashback).

I pulled up to the Perry homes on Hutchins and turned my car off with the windows rolled down and sat for a few minutes. The freeway is only 2 blocks away but I had to strain to hear it, I suppose because it's sunken. These are 4 story and will have a great view too, but it looks like the lot in front might get built on which could block them somewhat. The location is convenient but the University Line won't be within walking distance and retail is still cracktacular but...very similar Waterhills a block away sold for 270K back in March so apparently these aren't too much of a stretch.

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Whether or not the area is going to improve, why buy a house in an area that is not currently nice if there are similarly priced houses in already established hoods? Is there anything special about this townhouse that would make it worth buying? Is it bigger or otherwise better than the other similarly priced townhouses in more established neighborhoods?

There are also townhouses across the 59 from there that are similarly priced in an area that is also improving but not currently as bad as that part of the 3rd ward.

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Whether or not the area is going to improve, why buy a house in an area that is not currently nice if there are similarly priced houses in already established hoods? Is there anything special about this townhouse that would make it worth buying? Is it bigger or otherwise better than the other similarly priced townhouses in more established neighborhoods?

There are also townhouses across the 59 from there that are similarly priced in an area that is also improving but not currently as bad as that part of the 3rd ward.

I am not sure what new construction townhomes you are refering to across 59, but the choices are few below $300k. About the only thing you can buy new under $300k would be a Terramark with a tandem garage and 1450 sq ft. You have more choices when you get to the $350k to 400k range. Or go three blocks east right on the other side of 59 and buy a 2100+ sq ft, normal garage, and 4th floor rooftop deck with views of downtown that is two blocks from the police station for under $300k. I am not a huge fan of the Perry home style townhouse myself, but in that general area of town, they definitely are some of the first to sell when they go back on the market. Most all the built townhomes on that side, in that area are sold. I think it is just a little suprising to see new construction at that high a price in an up and coming area. Most of us are used to seeing areas like that start off in the $200s. I applaud Perry for putting something nicer there. I think it shows what they expect the area to turn into and they were certainly some of the pioneers in Midtown that shaped many areas there.

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Whether or not the area is going to improve, why buy a house in an area that is not currently nice if there are similarly priced houses in already established hoods? Is there anything special about this townhouse that would make it worth buying? Is it bigger or otherwise better than the other similarly priced townhouses in more established neighborhoods?

There are also townhouses across the 59 from there that are similarly priced in an area that is also improving but not currently as bad as that part of the 3rd ward.

The redeeming points about this neighborhood are 1) absolutely stunning skyline views from 3rd or 4th floor, 2) closer to downtown than Rice Military, Montrose, or River Oaks, and 3) lower-priced alternative to Midtown.

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Actually, although they removed them from the site because they're not going to be released again until the end of December, i was not referring to the 280k townhomes.

In the same complex there are 1680 square foot homes for ~210k. Anyone know any brand new 3 story homes in Rice Military or Midtown for that price? That's why I'm considering it. 280 is out of my price range.

Here are some more examples of similar, abeit not brand new, improvements in VASTLY more desirable locations for the same price:

Invest Here Instead

Or Here

Or Here

Or Here

Or Here

Or Here

Or Here

You get the idea.

bpe3

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I know these streets very well. My advice is to stay away from this property. Lots of theft, homeless, drugs, robberies, break ins, the cops one block away don't do anything.

perry has really struggled with this development.

dream

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In the same complex there are 1680 square foot homes for ~210k. Anyone know any brand new 3 story homes in Rice Military or Midtown for that price? That's why I'm considering it. 280 is out of my price range.

That's a really reasonable price for that location, evening considering the neighborhood is on the edge of the redevelopment. I think it will continue to improve over there, but I don't know how long it will take to see a return on an investment in a brand new townhome. If there aren't many upgrades you can make to it directly- you are gambling on the neighborhood improving in order for your investment to grow. How long are you planning on living there? I feel confidant enough that it will improve that I moved just south of there this year, while expecting my first child.

As far as quality of life in that area- The access to Montrose, 288, 59, 45, the Musuem District, and the Med Center is instantaneous. I used to live in Montrose and drove about 15 minutes to work in the Med Center because of traffic. My commute is less than 5 min minutes now and there is no traffic at all. The neighborhood is definitely different, with more sketchy foot traffic.

My best advice is to drive around there are night and check out the noise from around 11pm through 2am before you buy though. Make sure there are no clubs that attract vehicles with altered mufflers or souped up radios within a few blocks of your potential home. Other than this, make sure you have an alarm system or a dog, and a secure parking area with good lighting. If all those things are in place, you have very little to worry living over there. Most crimes in that area that could potentially affect you are of opportunity. Mostly it is just drug use that leads to the shady foot traffic I mentioned before.

Edited by Furchild
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Here's a new place on the other side of the 59 for $250k. Maybe it's not comparable with the Perry home though. Maybe it's smaller or something, but you might want to check it out. I actually went into this one over the weekend and it was very nice. Too bad I don't have a real job... Edited by Jax
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Dream - Just curious what your source is on this. I directly asked the people when I visited and they said they had not had a single break in. Not sure if they're telling the truth (although legally, I would think they would have to tell me). Thoughts?

I know these streets very well. My advice is to stay away from this property. Lots of theft, homeless, drugs, robberies, break ins, the cops one block away don't do anything.

perry has really struggled with this development.

dream

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