Julia Bartels Mansion At 1518 Weber St.

[fortbendtomontrose]

The seller claims this home dates to 1856. Anybody ever seen this?

Any comments on the architecture would be appreciated.

BTW... I'm a 2nd generation native Houstonian and very happy to have found HAIF!

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc115/turgidson/1518weber.jpg

Here's a link to the listing at 1518 Weber

[VicMan]

The house is zoned to the following HISD schools:

* Crockett ES

* Hogg MS

* Reagan HS

[rps324]

I had a house in the 6th ward that dated to 1862, so I guess it is possible.

[jm1fd]

The house is zoned to the following HISD schools:

* Crockett ES

* Hogg MS

* Reagan HS

Never fails. Somebody mentions a house and you pop up with the nearby schools. Priceless. Yeah...I'm gonna move into that place with my kids in tow tout suite.

[KatieDidIt]

249 to back up to that mess?? Where is the emoticon token on a reefer?

[RedScare]

Kinda pricey, considering the bigassed alley in the back yard.

[VicMan]

249 to back up to that mess?? Where is the emoticon token on a reefer?

Until editor adds that, you should find an emoticon under the influence of Mary Jane, upload it to Photobucket, and then use it as an emoticon image on the forum

Never fails. Somebody mentions a house and you pop up with the nearby schools. Priceless. Yeah...I'm gonna move into that place with my kids in tow tout suite.

It would be funny if a family moved into that house - Anyway, even though many central Houston areas do not appeal to families, I add the info if it is not already on HAR, just in case a family wants to move in...

[tmariar]

The seller claims this home dates to 1856.

The house is located on an older stretch of Weber. But HCAD says the house was built in 1948. HCAD isn't the most reliable authority on build dates, but I'm finding the 1856 date a little hard to believe.

[pineda]

I'm definitely not an expert here, but I own a house in Huntsville that dates back to that time period, and this looks like the same type of structure. You asked for any comments on the architecture, and my only comment, coming from experience, would be "money pit"!

[Subdude]

Could be. The rustic or back-country Greek Revival style was prevalent in the first half of the 19th century but unusual afterwards. Archtecturally, 1856 if anything seems late for the style. I would love to see this restored.

[FilioScotia]

Could be. The rustic or back-country Greek Revival style was prevalent in the first half of the 19th century but unusual afterwards. Archtecturally, 1856 if anything seems late for the style. I would love to see this restored.

That neighborhood along and on both sides of Houston Avenue just north and just south of Washington Ave is one of the oldest in the city. It's just north of the Historic Old Sixth Ward, where many homes date to the pre-Civil War period.

It's not out of the question that this house on Weber could date to that time. If I had the money I'd buy it and restore it. I'd love to know what they're asking for it.

[Serrano]

I would also love to see it restored. Think it would look really nice.

[Orikal]

I'd love to see it restored as well, but for $249K??!! I suppose it does sit on a double lot close to downtown...

[Native Montrosian]

This reminds me of some of the houses in my favorite photography book - Clarence John Laughlin's Ghosts Along The Mississippi.

Almost twice the HCAD market & appraised value of $125K - then again, they also have the year built as 1948. I tend to take HCAD info with a grain of salt anyway. They gave our house an extra 250 square feet it would be nice to find.

[pineda]

It reminds me of this one:

[marmer]

I agree with Subdude. Sure looks antebellum Greek Revival to me. HCAD probably has the 1948 date as the result of a remodel, modernization, occupancy change, or something. But I can certainly buy 1856.

[Mr. Chenevert]

Anyway, even though many central Houston areas do not appeal to families, I add the info if it is not already on HAR, just in case a family wants to move in...

I think its great that you provide the school information, but I always wondered, HISD doesnt force you to go to the school that is zoned to your address as long as you can provide transportation.

Someone in the heights can send their child to Roberts Elemetary if the proper transfer is done.

[tmariar]

I don't have any basis for disagreeing with those who say the house might have been built in 1856. But, from the satellite images, the house doesn't appear to pre-date the street grid, and I haven't seen anything suggesting the grid was in place in that area (as opposed to south of there, in the Old Sixth Ward area) in the Civil War era. Have y'all?

1869 Street Map

[Edit: HCAD mentions "Beauchamp Springs" in the house's property description, and I see a "Beauchamp Springs" notation on the 1869 map very close to where the house would have been. Confederate General Samuel Bell Maxey's cavalry division was headquartered at Beauchamp Springs (sometimes called Beauchamps Springs or Beauchampville). But it sounds from most sources I've found like Beauchamp Springs was on the north side of White Oak Bayou.]

I'm definitely interested in hearing more arguments for the 1856 date. I think it would be a big deal if that could be established. Preservation groups in town would be interested, I'm sure. Does anyone know the realtor (David Hille) or the owner (listed on HCAD, with a Heights address)? They might have more information.

Fortbendtomontrose: Thanks for posting the info. If you're still following this thread, you might consider adding a reference to "1856 house for sale" in the title or subtitle to get the attention of people who might have additional information.

Edited November 8, 2007 by tmariar

[Vertigo58]

Still looks worth salvaging but its whats inside the walls and under flooring that can reveal true horrors. May cost to much to restore, the animal house is way more cool to live in.

Maybe Trout or Bluto would sell for brew. Toga!

Edited November 8, 2007 by Vertigo58

[sevfiv]

1869 Street Map

Digging through some Sanborn maps pretty much comes up with the same thing as the 1869 map above...

The 1885, 1890, and 1896 versions only go north around Johnson/Houston Ave. to about Spring St., the 1907 map just shows Weber in the key, and the 1924 actually shows the parcel. Does this mean the streets north of Spring/Ovid didn't exist then, or did they just stop the map there?

The Harris County Block book for Beauchamp Springs doesn't show the streets (maybe earlier names?) but there is a handwritten note referencing a "Bartel Addition." Unfortunately the closest thing, "Bartels," only shows the area between DePelchin and White Oak bayou...

Beauchamp Springs

Bartels

*edit* i found the block book (no help): http://books.tax.hctx.net/v007/001551.JPG

1907:

1924:

[gnu]

the deep setback of the house on the lot compared to its neighbors (1924) might be evidence that the house existed before the rest of the neighborhood.

Edited November 8, 2007 by gnu

[tmariar]

Digging through some Sanborn maps pretty much comes up with the same thing as the 1869 map above...

The 1885, 1890, and 1896 versions only go north around Johnson/Houston Ave. to about Spring St., the 1907 map just shows Weber in the key, and the 1924 actually shows the parcel. Does this mean the streets north of Spring/Ovid didn't exist then, or did they just stop the map there?

From what I can tell, even if it looks a bit odd, the 1896 map doesn't just stop at Spring Street - the lots do stop abruptly around Spring Street, but the map seems to keep going a bit further. I've seen references in old newspaper articles about Beauchamp Springs to the Puls family and the "Puls place", which apparently bordered the bayou, and I see the name Puls (I think) on the 1896 map, suggesting that what's shown was just been a large parcel of property owned by the Puls family. So my guess is that, in 1896, the Puls family owned the property on which 1518 Weber is now located. On the 1896 map, the location of the house would be a little to the west of the unidentified building to the south of Beauchamp Springs, which would be on what appears to be the eastern edge of the property. And I found a 1910 obituary for a member of the Puls family whose residence is listed as 1620 Weber, for what that's worth. [Edit: One of the pallbearers was named Meiselbach, which appears to be the name on one of the other large parcels of land in the area.]

That's a lot of surmise though and, even if it's correct, the Puls family could have had a house on their property in the Civil War era that later became 1518 Weber. It's just what I've been able to find so far.

A better map from the time period would be really helpful.

Edited November 9, 2007 by tmariar

[isuredid]

From what I can tell, even if it looks a bit odd, the 1896 map doesn't just stop at Spring Street - the lots do stop abruptly around Spring Street, but the map seems to keep going a bit further. I've seen references in old newspaper articles about Beauchamp Springs to the Puls family and the "Puls place", which apparently bordered the bayou, and I see the name Puls (I think) on the 1896 map, suggesting that what's shown was just been a large parcel of property owned by the Puls family. So my guess is that, in 1896, the Puls family owned the property on which 1518 Weber is now located. On the 1896 map, the location of the house would be a little to the west of the unidentified building to the south of Beauchamp Springs, which would be on what appears to be the eastern edge of the property. And I found a 1910 obituary for a member of the Puls family whose residence is listed as 1620 Weber, for what that's worth. [Edit: One of the pallbearers was named Meiselbach, which appears to be the name on one of the other large parcels of land in the area.]

That's a lot of surmise though and, even if it's correct, the Puls family could have had a house on their property in the Civil War era that later became 1518 Weber. It's just what I've been able to find so far.

A better map from the time period would be really helpful.

I know the story of that property. This is indeed part of the Beauchamp Springs (pronounced Beechum) tract of 54 acres which Thomas D. Beauchamp purchased from James S. Holman, A.C. Allen and Angus McNeil on June 16, 1838 under a vendor's lien for $1362. Supposedly Beauchamp was shown the large spring in the area by Bidai Indians.

Another post in another thread on early suburbs of Houston mentions Beauchamp Springs as an early suburb, but it was actually an early idea for a suburb that never came to fruition.

The acutual spring was just to the east of where Houston Avenue is today and right along the banks of the bayou, which was a high bluff in those days. The spring was not around Woodland Park as some have written. It was on the south bank of White Oak Bayou just above (meaning upstream of) the juncture with Little White Oak Bayou. Just below the juncture with Little White Oak Bayou, and on the east side of White Oak was the Riordan Spring.

In a nutshell, Thomas D. Beauchamp never paid off his lien and so, when he died the property was auctioned off. Actually, the property wasn't auctioned off until many years after he died, but that's another long story. The man that bought the property at the aministrators sale was one of the little known Allen brothers, Harvey H. Allen.

Eventually two families, the Puls and the Bartels families wound up with most of the original Beauchamp Springs tract. Puls had 10 acres and the Bartels eventually wound up with about 35 acres. The land where 1518 Weber is located belonged to the Bartels family.

The Puls house was indeed on Weber street, but was not in that block and not built of brick. It was at Sabine and Weber. Both the Puls and Bartels families were farmers and farmed that land.

In 1893 the Puls and Bartels families joined together and had the remaining portion of that land that they still owned platted out as the Beauchamp Springs subdivision. The lots where 1518 Weber are located were lots 2 and 11 of block 13 in that plat.

The first deed record for that lot was from 1906 when Julia Bartels sold lot 2 (where the brick house is) to William H. Taylor. The deed record more or less said that there were no improvements on the lot. What it actually said was, that if improvements were made on the lot, it was up to the buyer to insure them. Mr. Taylor bought the propety on time and Julia Bartels was the lien holder. Mr. Taylor was a bricklayer and built brick houses by profession. 'Nuff said on that.

When Mr. Taylor sold the lot in 1910 (with improvements) he sold to a man named Robert Mellor. Mellor leased lot 11 for several years as a yard and then purchase it from Julia Bartel's son Frederick several years later. That is the story of how those two lots became one.

Edited November 9, 2007 by isuredid

[isuredid]

[fortbendtomontrose]

Isuredid:

Nice write-up!

[tmariar]

I know the story of that property.

Apparently! Thanks so much for the thorough explanation.

I did see an 1893 article on "the petition of Julia Bartels and others on the Beauchamp Spring road, on the subject of being allowed to make a plat of an addition to the city of Houston, to be known as the Beauchamp Springs addition."

[sevfiv]

Yes, excellent information, Isuredid.

By 1932 it seems that Mr. Mellor died (1518 Weber resident was Mrs. Fannie Mellor), and the Puls family lived at 1718 and 1719 Weber St. There were also Puls at 1908 and 1918 Chenevert (now some sort of warehouse/lab, near St. Joseph Hospital).

Also, the Bartels owned a service station at the corner of Houston Ave. and Weber (now industrial).

[Modernceo]

Fascinating information.

Thanks for sharing that !

[isuredid]

Here is detail of the area from the 1869 Wood map. That gully running south from the bayou was located where Johnson Street is now. You can see from the map that there was no stucture east of the gully, where 1518 Weber is located.

Edited November 9, 2007 by isuredid

[Mr. Chenevert]

First off, fascinating write-up!!!

So the deed restrictions from the 1906 sale is why a new home cannot be put there today?

Anyone that thinks deed restrictions can replace zoning, I will refer to this example many times when I call you silly later on in life.

Edited November 9, 2007 by Mr. Chenevert