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One of these days I'll dig up some photos and post them in the appropriate forum. I've see a lot of Western Europe, and after awhile, most of the cityscapes start to blur together for various reasons or another. Lisbon is the most unique city on the continent that I've been to, and certainly the most distinctive in my memory. As an added bonus, aside from the positives mentioned already, the city isn't overinundated with fat, fanny-pack sporting midwestern tourists. There aren't a lot of English speakers, but I imagine Portuguese can't be too difficult to learn. It sounds like a hybrid of French and Spanish, so there's at least some familiarity there.

Sounds really appealing. What little I know about Lisbon comes from a couple of episodes of House Hunters International. I like the idea of there being few English speakers. It seems that the fewer people around me I can understand, the more I enjoy my trips.

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Yes.. let's go frolic in IronTiger's thought provoking threads. I'm sorry, but this forum is better with Niche, Red, and Meme contributing.

Speaking of which, when and where is our next happy hour?

Quantity ≠ Quality

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I never claimed that I didn't make errors in judgement, which is why I publicly asked the moderators to decide if I should be sanctioned for what I wrote.

You privately asked the moderators for input and then unilaterally stated the outcome of the private discussion before closing the thread. Given the attempt to shut down the discussion and also on account of that you have repeatedly taken to misstating my arguments, I am hesitant to trust that your decree of absolvement was delivered in good faith.

I guess my question is -- what's your point? Why do you keep flogging this dead horse? What is it that you want me to do to make you happy? You seem more interested in continuing an argument than coming to a resolution.

As memebag's ability to post and PM demonstrates, RedScare's fate is an inequitible one, suggesting that your actions were punitive. You have claimed otherwise, that this is standard procedure for inactive accounts. Yet RedScare has demonstrated by his actions that his account is not inactive. Do you see it as unreasonable to treat RedScare like other people in a similar situation?

I started out by seeking an apology for attacks on your part. It seems as though no sincere attempt at apology will be forthcoming, though. At this point, I'd settle for an outcome such as I described earlier today:

Just humbly turn RedScare's posting and PMing privliges back on...and see what happens.

Doing this will not cure the bitter taste in my mouth, but the outcome in real terms will be satisfactory.

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I started out by seeking an apology for attacks on your part.

I don't recall where you asked for this. Can you point it out to me?

Just humbly turn RedScare's posting and PMing privliges back on...and see what happens.

I'm not sure how many times I have to say it -- All RedScare has to do is ask to come back and I'll restore his posting privileges. Let me know how many more times I need to repeat this both in the forum and in PM for you to understand it.

I'm not going to make a change to one user's account settings because another user asked for it. That's just bad policy. Red will have to ask for himself.

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I don't recall where you asked for this. Can you point it out to me?

Pretty sure it was on the other thread, where so many of us were offended by your rant.

I'm not sure how many times I have to say it -- All RedScare has to do is ask to come back and I'll restore his posting privileges. Let me know how many more times I need to repeat this both in the forum and in PM for you to understand it.

I'm not going to make a change to one user's account settings because another user asked for it. That's just bad policy. Red will have to ask for himself.

Red had publicly expressed outrage at having discovered that his posting privliges taken away when he tried to participate on HAIF. So there you have it. He obviously didn't want to lose those privliges. If you continue to deny them to him, I can only take from that that you are engaging in a punitive action against him.

It's actually kind of telling that your behavior matches exactly what RedScare figured you'd do when he first discovered that his posting privliges were suspended; he said at the time: "So, his claim that I left is bogus. He has banned me. Probably wants me to beg or something." You disputed that he was banned as a matter of technicality, but I honestly don't see much difference between being banned and being forcibly shut up. But it is pretty clear that you're looking for a symbolic act of submission from him...and you know you aren't going to get it. You wouldn't give it, either.

Let me refine my request from earlier. I'm asking you to be the bigger man. And I'm not going to tell you how to be the bigger man, but I and everybody else will know evidence of it when we see it. This'll probably take more effort on your part than just restoring Red's posting and PMing privliges (though that remains an option), but this allows you the potential to demonstrate your good faith and character and to begin a healing process with the HAIF community. There's no downside to you. Do it not because I'm asking you, but because it's the right thing to do.

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Boy oh boy. Some things never change. I used to post here as 20sGirl and remember some pretty nasty arguments taking place. Then I had a baby and disappeared for a while and forgot all my login info. Looks like things are right on track where I left them... laugh.gif

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Boy oh boy. Some things never change. I used to post here as 20sGirl and remember some pretty nasty arguments taking place. Then I had a baby and disappeared for a while and forgot all my login info. Looks like things are right on track where I left them... laugh.gif

images320x200.jpg

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Do your coworkers have no sense of smell, then? Or do you just have a hypersensitive one? tongue.gif

Or maybe apathy's the problem. They smell it, but don't care enough to do anything about it.

What's worse in an office environment? Burning coffeepot smell or burning microwave popcorn smell?

Or me, if I've had Taco Cabana for lunch?

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Boy oh boy. Some things never change. I used to post here as 20sGirl and remember some pretty nasty arguments taking place. Then I had a baby and disappeared for a while and forgot all my login info. Looks like things are right on track where I left them... laugh.gif

You registered here 25 minutes ago? Wow! What was happening then, the MidtownCoog fallout?

Interesting that RedScare left. He was the few members in the 10000+ posts club.

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Boy oh boy. Some things never change. I used to post here as 20sGirl and remember some pretty nasty arguments taking place. Then I had a baby and disappeared for a while and forgot all my login info. Looks like things are right on track where I left them... laugh.gif

Here I thought you left your 20s, until you mentioned your so called reason for getting a new login.

;)

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We've already been over this. You seem more interested in arguing than accomplishing anything. All of your points have already been addressed either in this forum or in PM. I'm not going to argue in circles with you.

I am genuinely disappointed in your response. We're only arguing in circles because you are afraid that proactively seeking a resolution between you and RedScare (which he has demonstrated by his actions that he'd accept) will cause you to lose face.

I'm calling a time out for myself. You'll hear from me within the week.

Edited by TheNiche
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I wonder if having more than 10,000 posts makes you frustrated with the HAIF. mellow.gif

It certainly seems that way, except for musicman. Congratulations, musicman, you are now the #1 active member with the most posts!

no haif isn't frustrating but censorship is.

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no haif isn't frustrating but censorship is.

Sigh. With respect to Niche, Musicman and RedScare, it's time to stop moralizing and call a spade a spade. I've tried to stay out of the discussion as much as possible, but it seems some input may be necessary. What a few of you call censorship, I see as benignly acting as an editor, which considering the man's online name and his ownership of this site, it's well within his purview. Words aren't so sacred that Tolstoy didn't allow an editor to clean up for content. All writers, from journalists to critically acclaimed novelists to college professors to Danielle Steele submit their works to an editor prior to publication. The internet operates a bit differently, but honestly, unless you buy and operate your own site, you don't ultimately own nor have any control over your words. The point that Editor edits rarely should be commended, even if it appears he's overreached on this occasion.

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What a few of you call censorship, I see as benignly acting as an editor, which considering the man's online name and his ownership of this site, it's well within his purview.

no one has said otherwise.

The internet operates a bit differently, but honestly, unless you buy and operate your own site, you don't ultimately own nor have any control over your words.

Yes you do have control of your words, you can choose to leave.

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One of the things I don't think most people realize is that they believe that because the Internet has freedom of speech, every website has freedom of speech, too. It's incorrect, and that leads to problems where people believe their Internet rights have been compromised when an admin "censors" their work.

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Sigh. With respect to Niche, Musicman and RedScare, it's time to stop moralizing and call a spade a spade. I've tried to stay out of the discussion as much as possible, but it seems some input may be necessary. What a few of you call censorship, I see as benignly acting as an editor, which considering the man's online name and his ownership of this site, it's well within his purview. Words aren't so sacred that Tolstoy didn't allow an editor to clean up for content. All writers, from journalists to critically acclaimed novelists to college professors to Danielle Steele submit their works to an editor prior to publication. The internet operates a bit differently, but honestly, unless you buy and operate your own site, you don't ultimately own nor have any control over your words. The point that Editor edits rarely should be commended, even if it appears he's overreached on this occasion.

I always appreciated the proactive and attentive job the moderators did on this site. What I found intolerable was the silent edit and the personal grudge. For some reason I was never able to understand, the editor disliked me personally, and changed and deleted my posts without any visible indication. If you hadn't seen my post before he changed it, you would never know that I didn't say those words. I tried to talk with him about it, and it seemed like we had found a resolution for a while, but we hadn't. He kept changing what I wrote, not because of what I wrote, but because I was the author. That was proven to me when he edited my post for content I had quoted from another post, but didn't edit the post I quoted. And when he told me he had a grudge against me and the way I wrote.

I understand that he owns this site and its content, and can change anything he wants. That's as it should be. I just can't invest my time and energy in a site that is run this way. If he wants to get into personal feuds, he should do it on a site he doesn't own. On this site he should be preventing feuds, not using his special power to win them.

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I always appreciated the proactive and attentive job the moderators did on this site. What I found intolerable was the silent edit and the personal grudge. For some reason I was never able to understand, the editor disliked me personally, and changed and deleted my posts without any visible indication. If you hadn't seen my post before he changed it, you would never know that I didn't say those words. I tried to talk with him about it, and it seemed like we had found a resolution for a while, but we hadn't. He kept changing what I wrote, not because of what I wrote, but because I was the author. That was proven to me when he edited my post for content I had quoted from another post, but didn't edit the post I quoted. And when he told me he had a grudge against me and the way I wrote.

I understand that he owns this site and its content, and can change anything he wants. That's as it should be. I just can't invest my time and energy in a site that is run this way. If he wants to get into personal feuds, he should do it on a site he doesn't own. On this site he should be preventing feuds, not using his special power to win them.

Although I wasn't involved, I have doubts that Editor didn't state he "had a grudge against you" and "disliked you personally". I only remember that you said he called you an "Internet elitist ____" in PMs.

Edited by editor
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I always appreciated the proactive and attentive job the moderators did on this site. What I found intolerable was the silent edit and the personal grudge. For some reason I was never able to understand, the editor disliked me personally, and changed and deleted my posts without any visible indication. If you hadn't seen my post before he changed it, you would never know that I didn't say those words. I tried to talk with him about it, and it seemed like we had found a resolution for a while, but we hadn't. He kept changing what I wrote, not because of what I wrote, but because I was the author. That was proven to me when he edited my post for content I had quoted from another post, but didn't edit the post I quoted. And when he told me he had a grudge against me and the way I wrote.

I understand that he owns this site and its content, and can change anything he wants. That's as it should be. I just can't invest my time and energy in a site that is run this way. If he wants to get into personal feuds, he should do it on a site he doesn't own. On this site he should be preventing feuds, not using his special power to win them.

One of the reasons I never applied to be a Mod on this site is for several reasons, if the opportunity presented itself,l I didn't want to be tied to being diplomatic. The other is because I don't want to appear to be biased one way or another, additionally, I would have gladly pulled the trigger on some of the more idiotic posts/users on here.

But that's just me. I had my fill of trying to get kids to play nicely and id rather let someone else get the headache.

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And when he told me he had a grudge against me and the way I wrote.

o_rly.jpg

I don't suppose you have that in a PM somewhere? I don't think I've ever been drunk enough to actually write that to someone. There are enough people in this thread making stuff up, so I hope you don't mind me asking you to back that sentence up.

--add--

I just searched all 733 conversations in my PM archive, which goes back four years, and only five had your name in them. Of those, none had the statement you attribute to me; and I don't remember ever conversing with you via e-mail.

More interestingly, I just learned that the PM search function will also search deleted PMs. Who knew?

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I don't suppose you have that in a PM somewhere? I don't think I've ever been drunk enough to actually write that to someone. There are enough people in this thread making stuff up, so I hope you don't mind me asking you to back that sentence up.

Sent Tuesday, November 4, 2008 at 12:45 PM:

Point taken. And now that I've gone to vote and had lunch I've had a little more time to sort out whether I have a problem with you or not. It turn out you're right -- I do hold a bit of a grudge against you.

The reasons are twofold. First, you come off like an internet elitist asshat. Not just to me, but in your responses to a lot of people who post here. Perhaps your words are just poorly chosen, but they make you seem like you think you know everything and anyone who doesn't agree with you is a pre-literate Neanderthal.

Those are your words. I was surprised you hadn't deleted them before you posted.

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What's worse in an office environment? Burning coffeepot smell or burning microwave popcorn smell?

Garrish perfume. God, do some people have no sense of smell ... I know we all like different smells, but some women (yes, it's mostly women with the offending perfumes and colognes) seem to be so ... well ... funky, I cannot imagine them thinking they smell good.

Oh ... and bad breaths.... enough said.

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One of the reasons I never applied to be a Mod on this site is for several reasons, if the opportunity presented itself,l I didn't want to be tied to being diplomatic. The other is because I don't want to appear to be biased one way or another, additionally, I would have gladly pulled the trigger on some of the more idiotic posts/users on here.

But that's just me. I had my fill of trying to get kids to play nicely and id rather let someone else get the headache.

I've been a member of sites with NO moderation and it was a pretty rough ride. Racism, sexism, hatism (is that a word...?). It seemed like everyone on there was licensed to say ANYTHING and it got really sick and twisted all the time. Needless to say, I didn't last long.

I have never been edited or warned on this site, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be. I think you have to strike a balance, but I am not sure what that balance is.

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Yep. That looks exactly like something I would write. I'm surprised you didn't embellish them before you posted.

Are you trying to imply that you didn't write that to me? You can check for yourself.

Edit: Someone suggested that folks here may doubt what I'm saying, so here's a screen shot from the message itself. I've clipped the bottom off because I'm not sure the editor wants all of this made public, but will share that as well if he wishes.

haifmsgscreenshotcroppe.png

Edited by memebag
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With the "O really Owl" and the your dialogue afterward... Yes... I for one got the impression that you were not only denying it but also accusing Meme of making it up.

I requested a screenshot because I'm getting tired of all the "He said vs. He said" crap around here.

I don't suppose you have that in a PM somewhere? I don't think I've ever been drunk enough to actually write that to someone. There are enough people in this thread making stuff up, so I hope you don't mind me asking you to back that sentence up.

Looks backed up to me.

Edited by Highway6
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Over the last couple of days I've been contacted by two individuals about restoring RedScare's HAIF privileges. These two had the tact and contact me privately about this and presented their arguments logically, rationally, and with respect. Pretty much the opposite of what TheNiche and Memebag have done.

Last night I decided that the two people who talked to me privately were right, and that there is a road ahead for RedScare on HAIF. I even stayed up late and drafted an e-mail I could send to Red to begin the reconciliation process. I put it aside so that I could polish it up in the morning.

This morning I made the mistake of reviewing this thread. And you know what? I'm not going to send that e-mail to RedScare. I'm tired of his lackeys -- Niche and Bag -- berating, belittling, and second-guessing me in this public forum. This forum is my property -- in a way an extension of my home. Yet these two feel it appropriate to attack me in my own home because they disagree with how I run it. What ever happened to "Texas Friendly?" Or how about basic respect for other people, especially when you're their guest? Their actions are beyond rude, they're outright hostile.

They make all sorts of claims about "censorship," yet neither one of them knows the first thing about the subject. I know censorship. I lost a job over censorship. I had to move to another market because of censorship. I've donated tens of thousands of dollars to free speech causes. Niche and Bag's first-hand experience with censorship could fit in a pack of cigarettes without removing the cigarettes.

These two think that if I remove a sentence from a HAIF post referring to another HAIFer with an expletive that it's "censorship." They can shout "censorship" all they want. It is not.

My name is "Editor." I edit.

I feel that I have been more than patient with this. I run HAIF very permissively compared with other fora. I can't think of another web site that I frequent where these two wouldn't have been banned long ago. I have always been willing to answer any questions people have about the forum and how it is run. I have gone above and beyond what is required and customary in explaining HAIF and it's operations. I don't hide things from the users. There is no secret club of users who get extra privileges. Everyone is treated the same. And everyone is expected to do their best to adhere to the, comparatively permissive, rules. In all the years of HAIF, I have only banned two or three people. I've been told that is a remarkable achievement.

Last night someone suggested to me in PM that maybe I should restore RedScare's privileges on the condition that Niche and Bag get banned. I thought that was pretty funny, but also slightly tempting.

Some people get to 10,000 posts by channeling their intelligence, thoughts, and wishes through the keyboard and into the forum for others to see and comment on. Others do it by insulting, challenging, and mocking every single post they don't understand.

I'm sorry, Red. I understand your situation, and I know you want to come back. I want to let you back. But I just don't think I can allow it. It would merely embolden these two ass-clowns and have them running even more amok. Right now, I am drawing their fire. But if things go back the way they were, they'll be sitting at their computers desperately hitting "Refresh" waiting for the next post they can jump ugly with. That's not something I think I should allow to happen.

Niche and Bag, I know you're both smart people. It appears you simply have too much time on your hands, or a persecution complex, or both, or something else. I don't know, and I don't care to find out. I'm not banning you. You are both welcome to participate fully in HAIF, but like everyone else on this web site you must show respect for your fellow HAIFer. All I ask is that you think before you post. Evaluate what you've written and decide if it improves or degrades the community before you send it.

I don't know what's so hard about simply being nice and respectful to the other HAIFers. But if you two can't play nice with others -- a rule that any five-year-old knows and understands -- then we're at an impasse.

If you two decide that you're simply not capable of respecting other people on HAIF, including me, then (since this is the internet) I'll let a cat deliver the message:

gtfo-take-fail.jpg

I am no longer going to debate this matter in the HAIF forum as it only seems to throw gasoline on the fire. I will discuss it in the forum when a resolution is reached. If anyone has questions or comments, PM or e-mail me. All reasoned discussions are welcome.

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Huh? I haven't said anything about censorship. I'm not trying to get Red unbanned. I stopped in to see how HAIF was doing, see if anyone was talking about the Bookstop/Alabama Theater, and maybe say hi to some friends. I posted in this thread because folks were talking about how I left. Now I'm leaving again. I'm not leaving because this is the editors private property and he gets to do what he wants here. That's all cool. I'm leaving because I don't enjoy how he abuses his authority.

Y'all have fun.

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Wait a sec.

Red left?

How in the world did I miss that bit of news?

Who's going to write an eloquence piece with something I agree with that I can't even put together?

This calls for a drink.

I stayed away from this thread because I thought some silly off topic talk was going on, needless to say it was some interesting reading.

I am stunned at the comments going back and forth.

I am indifferent to the news of a RedScareless HAIF, "m e h", theNiche will be missed in my eyes, and memebag, didn't know ya well enough to comment.

Give poor Wayne a break and show him the respect and gratitude he deserves guys. This really is his baby. We are invited in here. HAIF is a privilege, not a right.

Edited by Pumapayam
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Anyways...

I seem to be the only person in my office who can smell the coffee pot burning.

I suggest you turn off the coffee machine.

Boy oh boy. Some things never change. I used to post here as 20sGirl and remember some pretty nasty arguments taking place. Then I had a baby and disappeared for a while and forgot all my login info. Looks like things are right on track where I left them... laugh.gif

Congrats. :)

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It makes you wonder who really controls content.

Posters volunteer their time to contribute content. They ultimately control content. If they all leave, you are left with a shell of a forum once was. This also reminds me of Editor's story of how the forum came about in the first place; he put it online and checked back a few months later to see it had created a life of it's own. I guess if your not careful the reverse is true as well.

Personally I think this is one of the best if not the best local forum, despite the lack of architecture talk (which in itself is a blessing in disguisehappy.gif). Thanks for your time and efforts Editor, you walk a fine line.

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Without bumping my thread about Auchan, I found out the big building on the corner of Beechnut and Beltway 8 was not Auchan. I think it was at the corner of Elmsworth and Beltway 8. What say you?

I say . . .

Posters volunteer their time to contribute content. They ultimately control content. If they all leave, you are left with a shell of a forum once was. This also reminds me of Editor's story of how the forum came about in the first place; he put it online and checked back a few months later to see it had created a life of it's own. I guess if your not careful the reverse is true as well.

Personally I think this is one of the best if not the best local forum, despite the lack of architecture talk (which in itself is a blessing in disguisehappy.gif). Thanks for your time and efforts Editor, you walk a fine line.

I think the membership is large enough that even if a few key member decide to take a permanent break, there is still plenty of active members to compensate. This recent announcement and honor of being the best local website should ensure a continuous flow of new postings.

Edited by Pumapayam
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I think the membership is large enough that even if a few key member decide to take a permanent break, there is still plenty of active members to compensate.

Yes.. let's go frolic in IronTiger's thought provoking threads.

I'm sorry, but this forum is better with Niche, Red, and Meme contributing.

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