Yet Another Republican Gay Sex Scandal

[memebag]

I'd like to "ignore" by choosing to view or not view a topic, based on that topics interest to me. Cramming your opinions down my throat on a thread that has nothing to do with your opinions is pretty rude.

Chill. We're posting in a forum called "Way Off Topic". I'm pretty sure staying on topic isn't a high priority here.

[west20th]

Chill. We're posting in a forum called "Way Off Topic". I'm pretty sure staying on topic isn't a high priority here.

Pretty obvious that it isn't.

[bachanon]

guys come on. play nice. yes, you are posting in "way off topic" but in a thread about a republican representative who had a secret gay life. we should stay on the topic of the thread.

once more, BACK on topic please.

[westguy76]

They are both Republicans! (and both hypocrits I might add)

\

I didn't read this whole thread but I thought since there are so many gay folk on HAIF they might be more inclined to sympathize with the gay politicians instead of taking the opportunity to call them out as hypocrits?

[bachanon]

that's been my thinking as well. it's sad that some in the gay community enjoy pouncing on a humiliated gay man.

[webdude]

Maybe there is some yet to discover link with this gay republican trend.

For those who say being gay is circumstantial, do you think being a republican representative contributes to making a person gay, or does gayness itself make a person want to become a republican representative?

[gwilson]

Maybe there is some yet to discover link with this gay republican trend.

For those who say being gay is circumstantial, do you think being a republican representative contributes to making a person gay, or does gayness itself make a person want to become a republican representative?

I nearly spit out my drink when I read this. Still lauging.

I hope it was a joke, lol.

[webdude]

that's been my thinking as well. it's sad that some in the gay community enjoy pouncing on a humiliated gay man.

Its even more sad he has to resign, says worse about the republican/religious community.

[west20th]

that's been my thinking as well. it's sad that some in the gay community enjoy pouncing on a humiliated gay man.

Well I don't think just calling them "gay politicians" correctly describes these people. They themselves usually deny that they are gay. "Self-lothing closeted gay politicians who actively work against the Gay community" may be a more appropriate description. Yes it is always wrong to pounce on someone that is down and it is so very tempting to do just that. But, IMO, what they do degrades themselves and more importantly, Gays in general. How should I react?

[gwilson]

Its even more sad he has to resign, says worse about the republican/religious community.

Wait a minute now. He CHOSE to resign. Some might have called for it, but he had the right (and the duty if you ask me) to finish his term and allow the people to choose.

I think he should have stayed in, finished his job, and maybe, just maybe, think about coming clean and being an example of how one can be both gay and republican and in office. Doesn't mean he'd have gotten re-elected, but he could have tried.

I am far more concerned about his lack of moral character in the realm of being an adulterer than anything else. That is a character flaw that I personally would not want in someone who represented me.

[bachanon]

Its even more sad he has to resign, says worse about the republican/religious community.

exactly. you would think that the conservatives would take the opportunity to show tolerance in situations like these. let the voters in his district vote him out in the next election if they are bothered by it.

[west20th]

.

[bachanon]

Well I don't think just calling them "gay politicians" correctly describes these people. They themselves usually deny that they are gay. "Self-lothing closeted gay politicians who actively work against the Gay community" may be a more appropriate description. Yes it is always wrong to pounce on someone that is down and it is so very tempting to do just that. But, IMO, what they do degrades themselves and more importantly, Gays in general. How should I react?

reacting is fine. it's the people who seem to be gleeful about it that disturbs me. my gut reaction is compassion for the guy. yes, he did it to himself but he's been suffering for a long time. now his family suffers along with him. it's a lose/lose scenario for everyone.

[gwilson]

reacting is fine. it's the people who seem to be gleeful about it that disturbs me. my gut reaction is compassion for the guy. yes, he did it to himself but he's been suffering for a long time. now his family suffers along with him. it's a lose/lose scenario for everyone.

It is indeed. I am all about forgiveness and I am willing to overlook things for someone who is really trying to do better.

[houstonmacbro]

exactly. you would think that the conservatives would take the opportunity to show tolerance in situations like these. let the voters in his district vote him out in the next election if they are bothered by it.

The whole tolerance deal is messed up ... who wants to be (just) tolerated...?

Tolerance, to be merely put up with, is a slap in the face to anyone with any sense who's in an ostracized community.

[west20th]

It is indeed. I am all about forgiveness and I am willing to overlook things for someone who is really trying to do better.

If I was a constituent of his, I wouldn't forgive. But you are right, that choice shouldn't be taken away from his voters. He should have stuck it out.

[bachanon]

The whole tolerance deal is messed up ... who wants to be (just) tolerated...?

Tolerance, to be merely put up with, is a slap in the face to anyone with any sense who's in an ostracized community.

perhaps i should have used the word compassion rather than tolerance.

i think that tolerance means live and let live, be congenial and refrain from negative stereotyping. to see it as a negative doesn't help things. you can't require people to like or accept everyone. it will never be a perfect world. "tolerance" is the best we can do as humankind.

[gwilson]

The whole tolerance deal is messed up ... who wants to be (just) tolerated...? Tolerance, to be merely put up with, is a slap in the face to anyone with any sense who's in an ostracized community.

You have to start somewhere, and tolerance is the first step.It is rare that social changes happen DURING a generation. Acceptance and even the embracing of others isn't likely to happen in the same generation that barely starts tolerating.It is hypocritical to suggest otherwise as well since we are all intolerant of someone for one reason or another whether it makes sense or not.Tolerance is certainly better than intolerance, no?

If I was a constituent of his, I wouldn't forgive. But you are right, that choice shouldn't be taken away from his voters. He should have stuck it out.

What part wouldn't you forgive? Him being an adulterer? Him showing such poor judgment skills? Him dragging his family through the mud because he lacked the confidence to be honest (assuming his wife and family didn't know)? Him not having the guts to stick it out and stand tall like a man (gay or straight)?I would be interested to know what part of the scenario you wouldn't forgive him for. I know what parts of that I would personally have more trouble forgiving him for.

[houstonmacbro]

You have to start somewhere, and tolerance is the first step.It is rare that social changes happen DURING a generation. Acceptance and even the embracing of others isn't likely to happen in the same generation that barely starts tolerating.It is hypocritical to suggest otherwise as well since we are all intolerant of someone for one reason or another whether it makes sense or not.Tolerance is certainly better than intolerance, no?What part wouldn't you forgive? Him being an adulterer? Him showing such poor judgment skills? Him dragging his family through the mud because he lacked the confidence to be honest (assuming his wife and family didn't know)? Him not having the guts to stick it out and stand tall like a man (gay or straight)?I would be interested to know what part of the scenario you wouldn't forgive him for. I know what parts of that I would personally have more trouble forgiving him for.

No ... tolerance... let's see...I tolerate the homeless pandhandlers that accost me at when I am stopped at a light.I tolerate bad smells when I am driving through certain parts of the industrial zones.I tolerate potholes.I tolerate co-workers who talk too much.I ... tolerate ... mosquitos.Tolerate is like ... barely deal with and only do so because I have no choice. Who wants to be JUST tolerated?

I would be interested to know what part of the scenario you wouldn't forgive him for. I know what parts of that I would personally have more trouble forgiving him for.

Does he NEED our forgiveness? What exactly are we so high and mighty that we are forgiving him for?I think he is hypocritical, but that is hardly worth HIM seeking MY forgiveness. And hardly worth me (who am I to do so?) GRANTING it to him.

[gwilson]

No ... tolerance... let's see...I tolerate the homeless pandhandlers that accost me at when I am stopped at a light.I tolerate bad smells when I am driving through certain parts of the industrial zones.I tolerate potholes.I tolerate co-workers who talk too much.I ... tolerate ... mosquitos.Tolerate is like ... barely deal with and only do so because I have no choice. Who wants to be JUST tolerated?Does he NEED our forgiveness? What exactly are we so high and mighty that we are forgiving him for?I think he is hypocritical, but that is hardly worth HIM seeking MY forgiveness. And hardly worth me (who am I to do so?) GRANTING it to him.

If you are one of his constituents, you would in a position to forgive him.

Definitions of Tolerate as pertaining to the previous comments:

allow the presence of or allow (an activity) without opposing or prohibiting;

recognize and respect (rights and beliefs of others);

[houstonmacbro]

If you are one of his constituents, you would in a position to forgive him.

Definitions of Tolerate as pertaining to the previous comments:

allow the presence of or allow (an activity) without opposing or prohibiting;

recognize and respect (rights and beliefs of others);

I'd want an explanation of why he voted certain ways, why he lied, and what he would do (if anything) to rectify his wrongs.

I am still not sure I would try to forgive him.

Maybe I am splitting hairs?

[HtownWxBoy]

I'd want an explanation of why he voted certain ways, why he lied, and what he would do (if anything) to rectify his wrongs.

I am still not sure I would try to forgive him.

Maybe I am splitting hairs?

If he truely is gay he may have voted the way he did just to cover himself... to fit in w/ other conservatives. That's just one possibillity.

[KinkaidAlum]

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I didn't read this whole thread but I thought since there are so many gay folk on HAIF they might be more inclined to sympathize with the gay politicians instead of taking the opportunity to call them out as hypocrits?

Neither Senator Craig nor this new fella should be considered "gay politicians."

Gay politicans and their allies FIGHT for gay rights. They FIGHT for equal marriage. They FIGHT against discrimination in the Constitution. They fight for things like ENDA and overturning "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

I chose to come out in the late 1980s. It wasn't an easy decision by any means but it was the right decision. It was the honest and moral thing to do. I could have chosen to marry and start a family and to live in the public eye as a straight man just like these two but I realized I would be harming myself, my spouse, my children, and my family by denying the truth.

Yes, it's sad that in 2007 both of these men felt such shame that they turned to illegal behavior to search for sex. But, they have only themselves to blame for that shame.

Now, if either of these men chooses to COME OUT then maybe I will show some sympathy. But, calling press conferences to say you aren't gay after you've been BUSTED for crusing a tea room isn't exactly endearing.

[HtownWxBoy]

Neither Senator Craig nor this new fella should be considered "gay politicians."

Gay politicans and their allies FIGHT for gay rights. They FIGHT for equal marriage. They FIGHT against discrimination in the Constitution. They fight for things like ENDA and overturning "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

I chose to come out in the late 1980s. It wasn't an easy decision by any means but it was the right decision. It was the honest and moral thing to do. I could have chosen to marry and start a family and to live in the public eye as a straight man just like these two but I realized I would be harming myself, my spouse, my children, and my family by denying the truth.

Yes, it's sad that in 2007 both of these men felt such shame that they turned to illegal behavior to search for sex. But, they have only themselves to blame for that shame.

Now, if either of these men chooses to COME OUT then maybe I will show some sympathy. But, calling press conferences to say you aren't gay after you've been BUSTED for crusing a tea room isn't exactly endearing.

When I was in high school and I realized my "gay" feelings weren't just a phase and I actually was gay but yet was way to scared to come out... I told myself I would just marry a girl and cheat on her w/ a guy if I had to... how horrible is that... but society made me too scared to be myself... thankfully I found the strength to come out in college.

[west20th]

You have to start somewhere, and tolerance is the first step.It is rare that social changes happen DURING a generation. Acceptance and even the embracing of others isn't likely to happen in the same generation that barely starts tolerating.It is hypocritical to suggest otherwise as well since we are all intolerant of someone for one reason or another whether it makes sense or not.Tolerance is certainly better than intolerance, no?What part wouldn't you forgive? Him being an adulterer? Him showing such poor judgment skills? Him dragging his family through the mud because he lacked the confidence to be honest (assuming his wife and family didn't know)? Him not having the guts to stick it out and stand tall like a man (gay or straight)?I would be interested to know what part of the scenario you wouldn't forgive him for. I know what parts of that I would personally have more trouble forgiving him for.

Mostly his hypocrasy. But forgive is maybe the wrong term. Not my place to forgive or condem him. But I definately would not vote for him again.

[mojeaux131]

There have been several assertions that homosexuality is present naturally in nature. The question that has yet to be answered is are these acts of true homosexuality (attraction to the same sex) or acts of convenience Are we truly monosexual (I made that word up) or are these merely acts of convenient sexual gratification?I especially enjoyed the dolphin visual.

Look, it's animals of the same sex "having fun" with each other. That's homosexuality. As for your question about "true homosexuality", there are animals who "have fun" exclusively with members of the same sex. Also about the same question, wouldn't two dolphins or ducks "having fun" with each other be exhibiting "attraction to the same sex"? So your question has been answered, but you haven't answered our questions regarding your paradoxical statements about what you believe is the origin of homosexuality in humans. You say you believe it is not genetic, yet you also say it is not a conscious choice. You say it is the result of "subconscious conditioning". Can you give us an example?

I don't believe you to be a homophobe or a bigot at all, but your statements are very confusing.

(Sorry west20th, I know being on-topic is important to you, but tangents are more or less inevitable when we discuss issues like this. Republican politician who didn't support gay rights gets outed, issues of hypocrisy get brought up, Republican stances toward homosexuality are discussed, homosexuality (and its origins) are discussed. We're not being rude, or at least we're not trying to be. We are discussing things that are certainly relevant to the greater issue (of which this event is a part) and at least for myself, I am trying to change attitudes in ways that I feel will elevate the level of discourse with respect to gay rights in this country and help to bring about changes which will result in true equal rights for homosexuals.)

[memebag]

So your question has been answered, but you haven't answered our questions regarding your paradoxical statements about what you believe is the origin of homosexuality in humans. You say you believe it is not genetic, yet you also say it is not a conscious choice. You say it is the result of "subconscious conditioning". Can you give us an example?

Yes, I'm very curious about your (gwilson's) answer to this question:

What "circumstance" causes this "unnatural" homosexuality?

[gwilson]

I don't have a specific circumstance, but an obvious one would be sexual trauma as a child. I don't believe it to be any ONE event or circumstance either. I believe it is a collective of circumstances and events that condition one to such a lifestyle.

As far as the animals, a matter of convenience does not equate sexual attraction.

Two men who might otherwise be regular straight folk imprisoned for life might end up performing sex acts with each other as a matter of convenience. Just one example.

[mojeaux131]

I don't have a specific circumstance, but an obvious one would be sexual trauma as a child. I don't believe it to be any ONE event or circumstance either. I believe it is a collective of circumstances and events that condition one to such a lifestyle.

As far as the animals, a matter of convenience does not equate sexual attraction.

Two men who might otherwise be regular straight folk imprisoned for life might end up performing sex acts with each other as a matter of convenience. Just one example.

Right, but then how do you account for animals that are exclusively homosexual? Come on, if there are all these male ducks around and then the female ducks "have fun", would you still call that a matter of convenience? It's obviously sexual attraction. By "exclusively homosexual", I'm referring to animals that "have fun" only with members of their same sex. Ok? Got it?

And...right, one circumstance for the development of homosexuality in a person could be childhood trauma or abuse. I actually know a person like this. But as you said, that's only one and since you don't believe it to be any ONE event or circumstance, you have to allow for either personal choice or genetic predisposal or a combination or those two and/or others or something that actually makes sense. If it can be a "collective of circumstances and events that condition one to such a lifestyle", why can't it also result from genes or even personal choice? You're not being deliberately obtuse, are you?

Sheesh.

[memebag]

I don't have a specific circumstance, but an obvious one would be sexual trauma as a child. I don't believe it to be any ONE event or circumstance either. I believe it is a collective of circumstances and events that condition one to such a lifestyle.

So you think that every homosexual has some circumstance or set of circumstances in their past that conditioned them to be homosexual. What research lead you to that belief?

Also, do you think early experience imprints heterosexuals in a similar manner?