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Subdude

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Subdude    1,308

Has anyone seen the 2008 Honda Accord? In pictures it comes off as kind of ugly and loaded with styling cliches. Why have they turned the Accord into such a boat? I guess it is the first law of car manufacturing that for some reason, each generation needs to be bigger than the last.

600-Accord-span.jpg

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jm1fd    1

I think the new Accord coupe is an attractive car. Too bad they aren't putting RWD or AWD underneath it. FWD sucks.

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Subdude    1,308

Saying "FWD sucks" seems to overstate matters imo. It really depends on the type of car you need. Sure the fwd handling isn't as good, but on the other hand fwd cars are more efficient, allow a smaller package, and are less prone to slipping in snow & ice (not that the latter is a major consideration in Houston). Me, I just like driving smaller vehicles.

Et voici le coup

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gwilson    9

I held the same opinion of the new Accord until 2:36PM yesterday afternoon. I saw one driving down Westheimer in silver paint. It is a pretty decent looking vehicle. It does look larger, but not in a bad way. It looks more adequate.

I still would take my Avalon over the Accord any day of the week, but it was definitely better than the previous generations.

EDIT:

The coupe is the sexiest coupe to come out of Japan in a while. Definitely better than the Solara and anything Nissan makes.

Edited by gwilson

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Subdude    1,308
The coupe is the sexiest coupe to come out of Japan in a while. Definitely better than the Solara and anything Nissan makes.

I've always thought the Solara was fugly. From what I understand it is going to be discontinued.

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gwilson    9

It isn't a sexy vehicle, but it is a nice car. I've had one as a loaner a couple times, both times it was a vert as well. It is certainly nicer than other large verts in that price range.

My understanding is that it is going to undergo a major redesign and release under a new badge (my guess is an Avalon Couple or something of the like).

I know I'm glad I bought my Avalon though. I test drive every large sedan between 25 and 65k and the Avalon outdid them all. It was the best mix of luxury, looks, comfort, features, technology, power, interior styling and features and Toyota reliability didn't hurt.

I was once meeting with a homeowner with the owner of the company I was contracting for. He was driving a brand new S550 Benz and I was in my Avalon. Parked next to each other, they look very similar. The owner (a player for the Rockets) passed up his Benz and hopped in my Avalon and started playing with stuff. The best part was how ticked off the owner of the company was.

The new release I'm looking forward to the most is the redesigned Sequoia. I imagine it will take on the new Tundra's exterior and interior styling but with a bit more luxury. This sounds perfect to me.

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Jeebus    87
I was once meeting with a homeowner with the owner of the company I was contracting for. He was driving a brand new S550 Benz and I was in my Avalon. Parked next to each other, they look very similar. The owner (a player for the Rockets) passed up his Benz and hopped in my Avalon and started playing with stuff. The best part was how ticked off the owner of the company was.

Mistaking a Toyota for a Benz? That doesn't say much for that college educated Rocket does it?

FWIW, I'm dissapointed in the Accords. They are starting to look too American.

Edited by Jeebus

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gwilson    9
Mistaking a Toyota for a Benz? That doesn't say much for that college educated Rocket does it?

FWIW, I'm dissapointed in the Accords. They are starting to look too American.

...or it could be saying a lot for the Avalon.

The new S-Class is an extremely nice car. It is light years ahead of its predecessors. It is a great looking, very technologically advanced vehicle that is extremely luxurious to boot. If I was looking to drop $140k on a luxury super-sedan, the S63 would be on my list damn near, if not at, the top.

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jm1fd    1
Saying "FWD sucks" seems to overstate matters imo. It really depends on the type of car you need. Sure the fwd handling isn't as good, but on the other hand fwd cars are more efficient, allow a smaller package, and are less prone to slipping in snow & ice (not that the latter is a major consideration in Houston). Me, I just like driving smaller vehicles.

More efficient than RWD? How so?

Smaller package? How so?

AWD is even less prone to slippage in snow and ice than FWD.

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gwilson    9

The concept that FWD is more efficient than RWD is outdated. Now they are starting to put 300+hp engines in FWD cars. So long as the gear boxes can handle the power, there is nothing wrong with this either.

FWD has it's advantages for handling as well (less oversteer, car pulls you to where you want to go, etc). RWD is more fun, that's for sure.

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flipper    9

I'm definetly not feeling the 4 door accord. I hope the 09 Acura TL doesn't take any inspiration from it.

flipper

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gwilson    9
I'm definetly not feeling the 4 door accord. I hope the 09 Acura TL doesn't take any inspiration from it.

flipper

I looked at the RL and was REALLY disappointed with it. It is a very nice car, but so boring. They could have tried harder.

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flipper    9
I looked at the RL and was REALLY disappointed with it. It is a very nice car, but so boring. They could have tried harder.

The RL is really supposed to more boring than not. The TL is more in line with your demographic I reckon. Especially the 07/08 Type-S.

10k miles on our 07 and no complaints so far!

flipper

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gwilson    9
The RL is really supposed to more boring than not. The TL is more in line with your demographic I reckon. Especially the 07/08 Type-S.

10k miles on our 07 and no complaints so far!

flipper

But the TL is small. The RL is in the same size range as the Avalon, LS, S-Class, A8, (swb models respectively), 300 Chrysler, etc. The TL is more in the E-Class/CLS, GS, A6 range.

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TJones    39
The concept that FWD is more efficient than RWD is outdated. Now they are starting to put 300+hp engines in FWD cars. So long as the gear boxes can handle the power, there is nothing wrong with this either.

FWD has it's advantages for handling as well (less oversteer, car pulls you to where you want to go, etc). RWD is more fun, that's for sure.

Yep, nothing like some good ol' "torque steer" to throw you into a ditch, huh ?

I'm just saying, I can't recall seeing a whole heck of alot of FWD racecars out there.

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Subdude    1,308
I'm definetly not feeling the 4 door accord. I hope the 09 Acura TL doesn't take any inspiration from it.

flipper

The TL is what is sold as the Accord in the rest of the world, so I think Honda will have to resist the temptation to make it too large or unwieldy.

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Subdude    1,308
B-O-R-I-N-G!

Looks like a Camry to me.

Well I suspect that is the whole point. Accords and Camrys are competing for the same market.

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More efficient than RWD? How so?

Smaller package? How so?

AWD is even less prone to slippage in snow and ice than FWD.

FWD became popular back in the 80's because it enabled cars to become smaller. Being able to turn the V6 engine 90 degrees and have it run laterally in the engine bay powering the front wheels created a much tighter drivetrain 'package'. Not having a driveshaft tunnel running down the middle of the car, also allowed a larger interior in an otherwise smaller overall car. A lighter and smaller car can be powered by a lighter and smaller engine, which is why FWD cars were deemed more efficient. Even today, that holds true for the majority of FWD platforms.

FWD also enjoys the benefit of having a large percentage of the car weight, usually greater than 60% over the drive wheels, which naturally give it better traction in the slippery stuff. Certainly, AWD is better, but after driving a RWD Miata, and a FWD Accord in the snowy mountains of WV, I can assure you, that FWD is all you need, whereas the Miata would stay in the driveway as it was useless in any snow.

To correct some other posters erroneous statements, FWD cars do not have less understeer than RWD cars. In fact, FWD cars only have understeer. Once you hit the limit in a FWD car and start to understeer, there is nothing you can do to correct the path, the car will continue to push until the speed is brought down to a point that grip is again gained.

On a RWD car, if understeer is encountered, one can use the throttle to induce oversteer, thereby correcting the issue. Therefore, a RDW car would have less understeer than a FWD car.

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Subdude    1,308

Blazing new trails in ugliness, I give you the Hummer H3T pickup truck.

hummer_h3t_concept.jpg

Who would buy one of these things?

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flipper    9
Blazing new trails in ugliness, I give you the Hummer H3T pickup truck.

hummer_h3t_concept.jpg

Who would buy one of these things?

It looks to be exponentially more useful than any other Hummer product :)

flipper

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Subdude    1,308
It looks to be exponentially more useful than any other Hummer product :)

flipper

Useful, maybe, but the design is so OTT for trips to the mall and such. Of course, I suppose Hummers are all about overdone styling.

my favorite accord was the late 90's version:

I liked the ones from the late 1980s, before they started getting bulbous:

86accord.jpg

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gwilson    9
Useful, maybe, but the design is so OTT for trips to the mall and such. Of course, I suppose Hummers are all about overdone styling.

I liked the ones from the late 1980s, before they started getting bulbous:

86accord.jpg

A hummer product is still a hummer product. There is a reason the military has mechanics in every convoy. They are needed to keep the things runnin.

The H1 hasn't changed since inception save for very minor changes. But it is a bit more delicate than people think. Having personally broken one, I consider myself accomplished.

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Spit on Hummer all you want, but it is one GM brand that picked its target and hit it. Too many GM products are watered down versions of when the design team originally wanted. Blame it on the bean-counters, blame it on whatever, but most of their mainstream auto's just dont hit the target.

The Corvette, CTS, Hummer, and their full-size pickups are the only products that dont miss the target. Out of all the cars and trucks they make, thats sad.

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RedScare    1,639
Spit on Hummer all you want, but it is one GM brand that picked its target and hit it. Too many GM products are watered down versions of when the design team originally wanted. Blame it on the bean-counters, blame it on whatever, but most of their mainstream auto's just dont hit the target.

The Corvette, CTS, Hummer, and their full-size pickups are the only products that dont miss the target. Out of all the cars and trucks they make, thats sad.

If by hitting its target you mean a 20% decrease in sales, then, yes, GM is hitting its HUMMER target nicely.

http://media.gm.com:8221/servlet/GatewaySe...amp;docid=40014

The HUMMER was never a big seller, producing 30,000 to 40,000 in its 2002, 2003 heyday. Now, H1 is gone, H2 sales are destined for 12,000 or 13,000 sales in 2007, and even the supposedly fuel efficient H3 is dropping like a rock. Considering the H2 is only 5 years old, I don't know of any vehicle that has gone from "must have" to road kill in as short a time.

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If by hitting its target you mean a 20% decrease in sales, then, yes, GM is hitting its HUMMER target nicely.

http://media.gm.com:8221/servlet/GatewaySe...amp;docid=40014

The HUMMER was never a big seller, producing 30,000 to 40,000 in its 2002, 2003 heyday. Now, H1 is gone, H2 sales are destined for 12,000 or 13,000 sales in 2007, and even the supposedly fuel efficient H3 is dropping like a rock. Considering the H2 is only 5 years old, I don't know of any vehicle that has gone from "must have" to road kill in as short a time.

I meant design targets. It hit what the designers intended to create. The H3 has one of the nicest interiors GM has created in the past 20 years.

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jmancuso    28
I liked the ones from the late 1980s, before they started getting bulbous:

86accord.jpg

yeah, the ones with the pop up light were nice. i had an '86.

also had an '84:

32496540.jpg

and an '81:

32496539.jpg

great cars.

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gwilson    9
I meant design targets. It hit what the designers intended to create. The H3 has one of the nicest interiors GM has created in the past 20 years.

The new Tahoe/Suburban/Avalanche and the new Cadillac Escalade and CTS as well as Sierra and Yukon Denalis are all very nice interiors. The new Malibu is downright sexy.

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gwilson    9
Spit on Hummer all you want, but it is one GM brand that picked its target and hit it. Too many GM products are watered down versions of when the design team originally wanted. Blame it on the bean-counters, blame it on whatever, but most of their mainstream auto's just dont hit the target.

The Corvette, CTS, Hummer, and their full-size pickups are the only products that dont miss the target. Out of all the cars and trucks they make, thats sad.

I wasn't spitting on Hummer. I was simply sharing a truth. I love Hummers. They are fun. Just be prepared to drop some coin to maintain it.

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The new Tahoe/Suburban/Avalanche and the new Cadillac Escalade and CTS as well as Sierra and Yukon Denalis are all very nice interiors. The new Malibu is downright sexy.

I mentioned Full sized trucks (that includes SUV's) as well as the CTS in my earlier post.

I disagree that the new Malibu is sexy inside or out, but design is subjective.

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Subdude    1,308

I haven't seen the new Malibu in person, but it doesn't look bad in the pictures. Somehow I can't associate "Chevy Malibu" with "sexy". The current Impala was certainly an improvement over the last version.

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gwilson    9
I haven't seen the new Malibu in person, but it doesn't look bad in the pictures. Somehow I can't associate "Chevy Malibu" with "sexy". The current Impala was certainly an improvement over the last version.

The new Impala (also a Holden design like the G8) will be a much sexier car than previous gens ('cept for the 95-96 SS's, those were hot).

Buick's new Park Avenue in China gives Maybach's a run for their money

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Subdude    1,308
I heard GM is going to try and bring more GM Holden cars over from Austrailia. I like their wagon and Ute.

http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/

Yeah, that rumor has been around. Right now the dollar is pretty weak, so imports would be expensive. Building replicas in the US might be more economical, like how Saturns now are Opels with different badges.

Buick's new Park Avenue in China gives Maybach's a run for their money

:o Are you sure the Maybachs aren't running in the other direction?

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gwilson    9
Yeah, that rumor has been around. Right now the dollar is pretty weak, so imports would be expensive. Building replicas in the US might be more economical, like how Saturns now are Opels with different badges.

:o Are you sure the Maybachs aren't running in the other direction?

The G8 is a Holden Commodore. They aren't importing them from Australia, they are building Holden designed cars since GM owns Holden (just like Opel with the Astra and Aura).

As far as the Buick, the Chinese apparently LOVE Buicks, it is THE luxury brand there. http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2007/04/2008-...hinese-get.html

Perhaps an S-Class/7-Series would be a more appropriate comparison.

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gwilson    9

Yeah, but taht difference would be lost in emissions compliance, tariffs and transport. There is a reason why Holden vehicles with the same power plants as their US counterparts (GTO, Corvette, etc) have higher power output. The emissions laws there are far more lax.

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Subdude    1,308
The G8 is a Holden Commodore. They aren't importing them from Australia, they are building Holden designed cars since GM owns Holden (just like Opel with the Astra and Aura).

As far as the Buick, the Chinese apparently LOVE Buicks, it is THE luxury brand there. http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2007/04/2008-...hinese-get.html

Perhaps an S-Class/7-Series would be a more appropriate comparison.

I haven't seen the G8. The former GTO was a Holden Monaro. A Holden with a very bland design.

Btw, an Australian friend says that in Australia the Monaro/GTO has a very "boy racer" image, and he wouldn't ever drive one.

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The new Impala (also a Holden design like the G8) will be a much sexier car than previous gens ('cept for the 95-96 SS's, those were hot).

Buick's new Park Avenue in China gives Maybach's a run for their money

Yea, those hood scoops just scream sophistication.

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gwilson    9
I haven't seen the G8. The former GTO was a Holden Monaro. A Holden with a very bland design.

Btw, an Australian friend says that in Australia the Monaro/GTO has a very "boy racer" image, and he wouldn't ever drive one.

In Oz, perhaps. Just like a 3series BMW Coupe has that image in the UK while it is a decently prestigious car here.

I personally like the GTO, but I don't love it. I wouldn't own one, but I'd certainly drive one again.

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