Dallas at Bagby Parking Garage

[ricco67 436]

Driving by the Doubletree, I noticed that there was a whole bunch of marking going on on the street. This caught my attention by the fact that the parking lot across from the Doubletree has been closed off. As I casually asked a very bored supervisor he told me they were getting ready to put in a new tunnel to the Lot and that there was some construction going to happen.

Are they building a new Garage or has something else slipped under the radar? Wasn't this supposed to be the location for the Orion?

[CSOM 0]

Driving by the Doubletree, I noticed that there was a whole bunch of marking going on on the street. This caught my attention by the fact that the parking lot across from the Doubletree has been closed off. As I casually asked a very bored supervisor he told me they were getting ready to put in a new tunnel to the Lot and that there was some construction going to happen.

Are they building a new Garage or has something else slipped under the radar? Wasn't this supposed to be the location for the Orion?

You sure it was for construction and not prepping for the Race for the Cure Saturday morning? I was at the Doubletree today and didn't really notice anything...

(BTW - don't park at the 1100 Smith garage, even on business... $30 all day and they don't accept Credit Cards...)

[ricco67 436]

I was thinking the same thing (the Run), but there were quite a few red marks noting where various utilities were.

The thing that REALLY caught my attention was tunneling to across the street. I mean, why build a tunnel if there is nothing there for people to walk to? A parking lot?

[KinkaidAlum 2697]

The Orion was going to be built on Asbury off of Memorial Drive just West of Shepherd.

From what I remember, a new parking garage is going to go up there to service a nearby office tower (Heritage Plaza?).

Such a shame that a prime spot on the Western edge of downtown and overlooking the park will only see a parking garage..

[houstonfella 83]

Yeah, I was going to post this siting today, but found this thread. That lot is fenced in with plastic around it and a sign that says construction area. Also, note that Babgy is going to be closed from 10/8/2007 to 12/31/2007. Ouch for some. I'm really curious as to what is going on here ... I just figured Bagby needs to be repaved (and it does), but are they really going to build a garage there? That would be a great skyscraper site.

[Houston19514 4233]

Driving by the Doubletree, I noticed that there was a whole bunch of marking going on on the street. This caught my attention by the fact that the parking lot across from the Doubletree has been closed off. As I casually asked a very bored supervisor he told me they were getting ready to put in a new tunnel to the Lot and that there was some construction going to happen.

Are they building a new Garage or has something else slipped under the radar? Wasn't this supposed to be the location for the Orion?

Yeah, that's the site of the parking garage for Heritage Plaza. It's been mentioned on this board before.

... and the Orion??? Not even close.

Man, you really do need to get yourself some better "ears on the ground." ;-)

[tanith27 307]

Got a tenant notice here in Allen Center about the street closure. Its based on construction of a new parking garage which apparently will take 14 months to complete. They are building a tunnel so that would explain the road closure between Oct 8th and the end of the year. Attached are the plans for the closures.

Phase_1___3_lane_closure_Bagby.pdf

[ricco67 436]

Thanks for the link, it was very interesting.

It's going to be interesting to see how they pull this off, that's a VERY busy intersection. This also clarifies the path of the tunnel, but I would have figured it would have been connected to the Double tree as well since a number of their customers uses that parking lot.

[capnmcbarnacle 100]

The surface parking lot on the SW corner of Bagby and Allen Parkway has all kind of commotion. It is on the same side of the street as the 1847 Kellum-Noble House. There are a number of trailers out there, and they have drilled some big holes (30 feet) and were placing rebar columns into some of them today. I have no idea what is going in there, but it looks like a sizable project is happening.

Anyone??

[Serrano 21]

can this be a tall building going their?

[ChannelTwoNews 2884]

It's a parking garage.

http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/i...ic=13285&hl

[capnmcbarnacle 100]

can this be a tall building going their?

Thanks. I missed the other thread somewhere. Boy, oh boy, a parking garage is going to look awesome next to the old houses over there!

Thanks for the link!

[Subdude 1586]

Dupe topics combined.

[TheNiche 947]

This is actually really good news. The more parking that is available to skyline district buildings, the more marketable they are to tenants. In a lot of cases, the parking that was built for them originally just isn't able to accomodate the higher density of square feet per persons that is typical today.

And the more people that come downtown...

[wernicke 27]

Yea my gf works for Deloitte and Touche... they are moving to nice new digs at Heritage Plaza (several floors are being remodeled now) from Allen Center and supposedly a requirement for a new parking garage was part of the deal.

[ChannelTwoNews 2884]

I've seen some overhead views of the site when I had to park at the Allen Center Garage. I can see it has a fairly sizeable footprint, but I'm just wondering as to what the overall size & capacity would be.

[lockmat 2248]

Here are the pictures for it:

http://www.morrisarchitects.com/

Here is what the chron article had to say about it that rsb320 posted in another thread:

Heritage Plaza Parking Garage and Tunnel, Scheme One, Morris Architects: Allen Parkway is a beautiful way to drive downtown except that, once you get there, you feel that you've come in the back door. This dramatic design for (of all things) a parking garage would give that neglected spot some much-needed oomph.

Edited May 8, 2008 by lockmat

[MidtownCoog 17]

They planned this garage before they even secured new tennants. Not the other way around.

[lockmat 2248]

Actually, here is a better picture the chron provided

http://images.chron.com/photos/2007/04/11/...opupGallery.jpg

[H-Town Man 4713]

It reminds me of one of the hollow buildings at Ground Zero.

[KinkaidAlum 2697]

Man, that is worse than I thought. At least it is short. I was worried it would be 15 stories or so.

However, I can't help but think how awful this will look across the street from our Heritage Park. There really are times when I think "only in Houston."

[Lectro 22]

I actually really like the design.

[Subdude 1586]

Inasmuch as we're talking about parking garages, it isn't bad at all. It is certainly miles better than that "architecturally significant" piece of garbage Hines built on Main Street. That said, what I hate is the location If I had my druthers the whole section of land between Dallas and 45 would be incorporated into the park. The Chronicle's comment was simply inane. Entering downtown through a park doesn't require any additional "oomph".

[MyEvilTwin 3]

I'm not thrilled about this garage at all... They've reached the top in construction already, though only on one side of it. Driving in from Allen Parkway, it looks like it will hide a majority of the Doubletree from the skyline view when completed. I hope it looks ok when it'd done, but I'm not that optimistic.

The Doubletree guest rooms are definitely losing their views.

Edited May 10, 2008 by MyEvilTwin

[H-Town Man 4713]

I saw where it was under construction today, and it looks terrible. Looking across Sam Houston Park before, you could always imagine that it went further than it did because there was nothing behind the treetops. Now there will be a big ugly garage.

Even more shocking though was the "architecturally significant" Hines garage on Main St., which I had never seen before. I thought I was prepared for it, but when it came into view, I let out a small yelp. Ugliest thing on Main St.

As to the Chronicle's comment, it really lends credence to the idea that they are still a cheerleader rag for the powers that be. Could you imagine any architecture critic of any newspaper in this country saying something good about a parking garage looming over a park (the city's oldest)?

[TheNiche 947]

I saw where it was under construction today, and it looks terrible. Looking across Sam Houston Park before, you could always imagine that it went further than it did because there was nothing behind the treetops. Now there will be a big ugly garage.

Even more shocking though was the "architecturally significant" Hines garage on Main St., which I had never seen before. I thought I was prepared for it, but when it came into view, I let out a small yelp. Ugliest thing on Main St.

As to the Chronicle's comment, it really lends credence to the idea that they are still a cheerleader rag for the powers that be. Could you imagine any architecture critic of any newspaper in this country saying something good about a parking garage looming over a park (the city's oldest)?

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the design. It's overcomplicated. If a parking garage had to be there (and it did), I'd much prefer the Hines styling, with exposed architectural concrete and a totally minimalist aesthetic.

Hmm...if my taste in parking garages is any indication, I must've been a nudist in a past life. The Morris design looks like its wearing clothes, the Hines garage is naked. And whereas the Hines garage is, to me, totally OK, the Morris garage somehow offends the senses. ...again, not because a garage is where it is or has the capacity it does, but just that it looks dressed up.

[rsb320 130]

I'm going to reserve my comments until it is completed. I do not like the rendering, but in many cases, I find the final product appealing.

[dizzyedge 0]

I don't know why they even need a second garage.

I work at the Heritage Plaza & the garage isn't even half full, even though the building is 85% occupied.

Seems like a waste of money to me, especially with more & more people taking the bus, rail & carpooling.

[bach 3]

I don't know why they even need a second garage.

I work at the Heritage Plaza & the garage isn't even half full, even though the building is 85% occupied.

Seems like a waste of money to me, especially with more & more people taking the bus, rail & carpooling.

I used to work there and am still very familiar with the building. It absolutely needs attached parking. EOG and Deloitte feel the same way and wouldn't have signed on had it not been for the promise of new parking spaces connected to the building. (And besides, that garage is tight!)

[feufoma 10]

This thing's gonna be horrible! My wife pointed out the fact that most views from the western face of the Doubletree seem to hold the promise of being 'obfuscated' beyond reproach. Goddamnit! Why can't we in this city work together to promote and maintain any (normal) sense of urban aestheticsm? Opie for Mayor!

Doo doo dyoot do do do dyoot do doooo...

P.S. Whistle that last part...

Rockin' in the Carolina's yo'.....!!! Geez Ange.....!! Barney and Floyd could rock this city like no other!!

[KinkaidAlum 2697]

Gotta agree with Feufoma. This thing is bad. We drove by it on Allen Parkway @ the Pierce entrance to 45 North and it is awful. At least half of the Doubletree rooms will lose their view Westward.

The worst part is that it stands right in the Heritage Park area. Historic Buildings, live oak trees, fountains, and a multi-level parking garage. I guess in 200 years people will look back and maybe that building will reflect a time in Houston's history when profits were all that mattered. Maybe it can become a relic and join the park!

[woolie 132]

I guess in 200 years people will look back and maybe that building will reflect a time in Houston's history when profits were all that mattered.

Yes, the 1836-2049 period was tough on the arts.

[TheNiche 947]

Gotta agree with Feufoma. This thing is bad. We drove by it on Allen Parkway @ the Pierce entrance to 45 North and it is awful. At least half of the Doubletree rooms will lose their view Westward.

The worst part is that it stands right in the Heritage Park area. Historic Buildings, live oak trees, fountains, and a multi-level parking garage. I guess in 200 years people will look back and maybe that building will reflect a time in Houston's history when profits were all that mattered. Maybe it can become a relic and join the park!

If it were there in 200 years, I'd be very impressed.

Seriously though, I hope that in 200 years, people are educated well enough to understand the mechanisms by way of which profits are derived. I doubt it, but do hold out that hope.

[houstonmacbro 24]

This thing's gonna be horrible! My wife pointed out the fact that most views from the western face of the Doubletree seem to hold the promise of being 'obfuscated' beyond reproach. Goddamnit! Why can't we in this city work together to promote and maintain any (normal) sense of urban aestheticsm? Opie for Mayor!

Doo doo dyoot do do do dyoot do doooo...

P.S. Whistle that last part...

Rockin' in the Carolina's yo'.....!!! Geez Ange.....!! Barney and Floyd could rock this city like no other!!

I SO agree with you. I cannot believe we don't care anything about architectural integrity of the skyline and don't care that a damned parking garage is gonne mess up the view.

Who runs this town?

[RedScare 1665]

I SO agree with you. I cannot believe we don't care anything about architectural integrity of the skyline and don't care that a damned parking garage is gonne mess up the view.

Who runs this town?

Could you give me a few specifics as to what "we" could have done? Should the City pass a "view" ordinance? Should we have all gathered at the site with torches and pitchforks? Am I correct in assuming that if you and feufoma had spent a couple of million dollars on that piece of land, you two would have donated it for use as a park...since you clearly expected these landowners to do so.

I really want to hear specific solutions. This board has been taken over by people who accuse "Houston" of doing or not doing things, and I want to know who "Houston" is, and what specific things he or she should be doing.

[houstonmacbro 24]

Could you give me a few specifics as to what "we" could have done? Should the City pass a "view" ordinance? Should we have all gathered at the site with torches and pitchforks? Am I correct in assuming that if you and feufoma had spent a couple of million dollars on that piece of land, you two would have donated it for use as a park...since you clearly expected these landowners to do so.

I really want to hear specific solutions. This board has been taken over by people who accuse "Houston" of doing or not doing things, and I want to know who "Houston" is, and what specific things he or she should be doing.

I think some sort of zoning board should have at least CONSIDERED what building a parking garage would do to the view. The skyline does belong to us whether we have a million dollars to pay for land or just property tax dollars to support the city coffers.

[Houston19514 4233]

Could you give me a few specifics as to what "we" could have done? Should the City pass a "view" ordinance? Should we have all gathered at the site with torches and pitchforks? Am I correct in assuming that if you and feufoma had spent a couple of million dollars on that piece of land, you two would have donated it for use as a park...since you clearly expected these landowners to do so.

I really want to hear specific solutions. This board has been taken over by people who accuse "Houston" of doing or not doing things, and I want to know who "Houston" is, and what specific things he or she should be doing.

Excellent thoughts, RedScare. Could not agree more.

Besides which, at least when driving in on Allen Parkway, the parking garage is barely visible in the skyline. You pretty much have to be looking for it to see it at all.

[RedScare 1665]

I think some sort of zoning board should have at least CONSIDERED what building a parking garage would do to the view. The skyline does belong to us whether we have a million dollars to pay for land or just property tax dollars to support the city coffers.

OK, so you propose that we enact zoning. That's fair enough, even though I suspect that there is still not enough support for it to pass.

Further, you wish to zone parking garages out of the CBD, the one area of town where parking garages are most critical, due to land prices and the existence of highrise office buildings. Fair enough, though I completely disagree with you on this issue.

Finally, you desire the zoning board to engage in aesthetics. This is completely unworkable, as everyone has their own opinion of what is attractive. Further, once we allow a denial of a building permit once on account of the view, all new construction will cease, as everyone who claims ownership of a view (you just said we all own it) will be able to stop every project that impairs that view. This would include every new highrise that impairs the view of the highrise next door, every condo between mine and downtown, every 2 story home near my single story bungalow....everything.

Probably better that you simply register your displeasure with the structure, rather than blame the government. If your solution were in place, can you imagine the displeasure we'd have with the government THEN?

Excellent thoughts, RedScare. Could not agree more.

Besides which, at least when driving in on Allen Parkway, the parking garage is barely visible in the skyline. You pretty much have to be looking for it to see it at all.

Thanks, and it seems to me, based on your description (I haven't seen it yet), that the structure's imposition on the view could be masked with some well placed landscaping on the freeway side. Not only would this soften the blow, but the trees would soak up the CO2 from the passing vehicles on the freeway. And we didn't even have to pass a zoning ordinance!

[musicman 192]

i nominate red to take adrian garcia's place!

[KinkaidAlum 2697]

I rarely disagree with Red, but on this one I do.

My dislike of this structure doesn't have to do with the "skyline view." After all, it is rather short for Western downtown standards and fairly hidden behind the on/off ramps of the Pierce Elevated @ Allen Parkway interchange.

However, how a skeleton garage was allowed to go up across from the Heritage Park and Museum blows my mind. I know the owners of the Heritage Tower need more access to parking. I know parking garages are a necessary evil. That said, couldn't there have been some sort of public/private collaboration to help build something with a bit more quality?

A TMC Commons type garage with a waterwall to help mute the freeway noise would have been nice, especially if the garage included retail/restaurant space to service the park. Heck, even just something as simple as covering the garage in reflective glass would have been better. At least that would have reflected the historic structures and live oaks across the street.

The Heritage Park and Musuem is an important piece of our collective history. It deserves better.

[RedScare 1665]

I drove down Allen Parkway to see what the fuss was about. I'll be blunt. The whining about the "view" is overwrought and not supported by the view itself. I found the I-45 overpass, which has only been in place for 50 years to be far more offensive. In fact, the trees in front of Allen Parkway Village shielded any view of the garage at all until one was nearly at the overpass.

As for the view from I-45 itself, well, if the view from the east, south and north doesn't do it for you, I'm sorry, perhaps suicide will be an appropriate way to end your misery. Sorry if this sounds overly sarcastic, but really, we're talking about being offended on a couple of hundred yard stretch of an elevated freeway. Come on! There are people starving in Darfur, and you're crying about this?

I will, however, concede that in its unfinished state, the garage is rather unattractive from the point of view of the park. I'll give Kinkaid that one. Hopefully, once completed, it won't be quite as offensive looking. And, once again, trees can do wonders. Here's hoping the developers are reading this and compensate for the intrusion into the park by adding some greenery.

BTW, stopped by Disco Green as well. Very nice and well attended. Somehow, the park is cooler than even my own backyard. Nice breeze, plenty of shade. Good time. Dog run sucked.

[ricco67 436]

BTW, stopped by Disco Green as well. Very nice and well attended. Somehow, the park is cooler than even my own backyard. Nice breeze, plenty of shade. Good time. Dog run sucked.

I was disappointed by it as well, I was expecting it to be at least 50% larger.

I'm with you on everything else, though. People need to chill out about the garage. The only ones that I would think would have a problem with it are those at the Doubletree, but odds are they won't be in the room long enough to delicate flower about it unless they book the room specifically for the 4th of july fireworks or whatever.