We Paved Paradise

[f95kai]

The interesting article below certainly applies to the US as a whole, and more so to other areas than The Woodlands. Still, I feel as though TW could have done a lot better in areas such as public transportation and commercial space layout. Why, for instance, aren't there more mid-rise parking garages "downtown" - not to mention underground parking?

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/10/...king/print.html

[RedScare]

The simple answer to your question is cost. It is much more expensive to build parking garages than to pave at ground level. However, your question is not the point of the article you posted. The article asks the question, "Why do we need so many parking spaces at all?" In this sense, perhaps the Woodlands has not been as big an offender as we think. While the mall parking lot is huge, I do not recall an exorbitant number of spaces for the Pavillion. It seems that surrounding office garages and nearby mall parking double as concert parking...at least as I remember it. I may be wrong on that, since they probably use the same parking bible as everyone else. If they do not, they should. Mall and office parking is needed during the day. Restaurant and concert parking is needed at night. They could serve the public twice with the same lots.

[TheNiche]

The interesting article below certainly applies to the US as a whole, and more so to other areas than The Woodlands. Still, I feel as though TW could have done a lot better in areas such as public transportation and commercial space layout. Why, for instance, aren't there more mid-rise parking garages "downtown" - not to mention underground parking?

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/10/...king/print.html

Red is spot on. Another factor, with respect to providing fewer spaces, is that it is much harder to sell office buildings and retail centers without adequate parking. And the buyers of that kind of commercial real estate tend to be institutional investors with deep pockets but a long list of rules. If you don't have what they say is adequate parking, you get passed over by top bidders. So it isn't really that easy to skimp on parking.

As for public transportation, The Woodlands couldn't possibly support much more than it already has. We're talking about upper middle class families; those types won't go for local busses. And they don't have the density for light rail. Park & Ride service is really good though. The Federal government also kicked in for the gimmicky water taxi service.

[bachanon]

one note: the pavilion parking and parking for festivals is supported by surrounding office and mall parking, as red stated. also, stand alone parking garages in town center have been built so as to allow for additional levels when the need arises.

as of yet, the water taxis and natural gas trolleys provide more benefits for tourists and event goers than woodlands residents. as a resident, if i'm having dinner at market street and have to stop by the mall, i'm not going to wait for a trolley. it isn't practical.

[dbigtex56]

From the article:

""Parking appears free because its cost is widely dispersed in slightly higher prices for everything else," explains Shoup. "Because we buy and use cars without thinking about the cost of parking, we congest traffic, waste fuel, and pollute the air more than we would if we each paid for our own parking. Everyone parks free at everyone else's expense, and we all enjoy our free parking, but our cars are choking our cities."

And that's why I should be given a pedestrian discount....seriously.

[woody_hawkeye]

With an air conditioned suit, I coulld ride my bicycle to the mall. That could be a discount too.

[bachanon]

i read about a woodlander who takes his bike to work every day. he claims that when it's 90 degrees outside, the air movement keeps him from sweating on most days. not being a biker and soon to be "commuting" from grogan's mill to town center, i'm wondering if this is true. i could simply preserve my ten year old durango (that i love) and bike to work.

[RedScare]

It is true in the sense that the air movement helps the sweat evaporate, giving you the sense of being cooler, as well as not dripping in sweat. However, once you stop, your body will still be warm, and you will sweat a bit. A box of baby wipes in your backpack can easily take care of that.

If you don't over exert on the ride, it is not bad at all. Often times, I will sweat less on an easy bike ride than walking downtown. For the distance you are riding, it should be a breeze.

[Orikal]

i read about a woodlander who takes his bike to work every day. he claims that when it's 90 degrees outside, the air movement keeps him from sweating on most days. not being a biker and soon to be "commuting" from grogan's mill to town center, i'm wondering if this is true. i could simply preserve my ten year old durango (that i love) and bike to work.

Red's baby wipes idea works very well. You would be amazed at how a 5-10 minute cool down, followed by a quick clean up with baby wipes refreshes, even in the dead of summer. Keep your exertion (and heart rate) low, and you shouldn't sweat too much, depending on your body type. It's also a good idea to wear clothes that wick away moisture, which can be purchased at Target for $5-10 (the same material you'll pay $50 for a jersey at a bike shop).

Also, wearing a back pack will make you sweat a great deal more. If you're serious about bike commuting, I would suggest purchasing a rear rack with small pannier, which will give you more than enough room for a change of clothes, lunch, laptop, etc.

[editor]

Both of the places I worked in Houston had showers. The first had it in a public place for anyone to use. The second place there was a shower in the executive offices for the big chief to use. But I bet he would have let a bicycle commuter use it on occasion.

I'll third the baby wipe idea. Most of the people I know who bike to work swear by them.

[Subdude]

From the article:

""Parking appears free because its cost is widely dispersed in slightly higher prices for everything else," explains Shoup. "Because we buy and use cars without thinking about the cost of parking, we congest traffic, waste fuel, and pollute the air more than we would if we each paid for our own parking. Everyone parks free at everyone else's expense, and we all enjoy our free parking, but our cars are choking our cities."

And that's why I should be given a pedestrian discount....seriously.

That is why I've always thought a tax on parking places would make sense. Of course, such an idea has the proverbial snowball's chance in hell.

[woody_hawkeye]

If a trolley passed by on the hour picking up passengers on The Woodlands Parkway, I would use it. Unfortunately, there has not been much of an effort to put together a mass transportation plan here, probably because of assumptions. If we had a scheduled transportation system, I believe it could work. Just once an hour would be fine. Right now, a person must own a car or have one available to be able to conveniently move about here.

[wxman]

The Woodlands may not have the density right now, but it soon will. Montgomery County will be bustling with over a million people in the next 20 years or so. Why not plan for the future and lay down the commuter rail? That's the problem with TXDOT is they lay one lane of freeway at a time. By the time they are done with it, the city has grown by a couple hundred thousand and it's time to do it again. Yea for commuter rail.

[bachanon]

The interesting article below certainly applies to the US as a whole, and more so to other areas than The Woodlands. Still, I feel as though TW could have done a lot better in areas such as public transportation and commercial space layout. Why, for instance, aren't there more mid-rise parking garages "downtown" - not to mention underground parking?

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/10/...king/print.html

i can think of eight multi-story parking garages in town center. i think the largest is between the pavilion and the marriott (the gold lot) or the anadarko parking garage. the anadarko garage was built to facilitate a second building i believe.

[woody_hawkeye]

i can think of eight multi-story parking garages in town center. i think the largest is between the pavilion and the marriott (the gold lot) or the anadarko parking garage. the anadarko garage was built to facilitate a second building i believe.

I was thinking about this yesterday. How many parks are there in The Woodlands? A bunch! They have lots of parking spaces - paved and mostly unused. If there was a transportation system which picked up and dropped off people at those parks, especially in peak shopping or event times, we might see improvements. Just an idea not fully thought out, but on the surface it sounds good. Hmmm ... park and ride would take on a completely different meaning.

[RedScare]

The Woodlands may not have the density right now, but it soon will.

Frankly, the Woodlands will never have more density than it has now. Outside of the retail district, the lots have been platted, the homes built, and the density established. The built up area will expand, but it will be at the same 1,900 person per square mile that exists in the rest of the Woodlands. Combine this with the fact that there is no single employment destination (residents are employed in Houston, Cypress, TMC, Greenway, Conroe and Town Center), and no desire for local bus service by residents, AND the recent vote maxed out the sales tax, meaning there is no financing mechanism for transit, and there is no push for transit nor financing possible to provide it.

To suggest otherwise is merely ignoring the reality of the Woodlands. As they say, it aint happenin.

[wxman]

Frankly, the Woodlands will never have more density than it has now. Outside of the retail district, the lots have been platted, the homes built, and the density established. The built up area will expand, but it will be at the same 1,900 person per square mile that exists in the rest of the Woodlands. Combine this with the fact that there is no single employment destination (residents are employed in Houston, Cypress, TMC, Greenway, Conroe and Town Center), and no desire for local bus service by residents, AND the recent vote maxed out the sales tax, meaning there is no financing mechanism for transit, and there is no push for transit nor financing possible to provide it.

To suggest otherwise is merely ignoring the reality of the Woodlands. As they say, it aint happenin.

Well to ignore that there is going to be over a million people in Montgomery County in 20 years is also turning a deaf ear to it. I mean there are people here that don't want the rail, but some do. I'm one of them. As expensive as gas is getting, the desire for other means of transportation is becoming a popular idea.

By the way, it's The Woodlands. (cap the T)

[MidtownCoog]

Why do people who are worried about gas prices and population density of the ex-burbs move there in the first place?

I just don't get it. If you really cared you wouldn't live way out in Montgomery County.

[RedScare]

By the way, it's The Woodlands. (cap the T)

According to the US Postal Service, it is Spring (Cap the S).

[KatieDidIt]

According to the US Postal Service, it is Spring (Cap the S).

Ain't that The truth.

[Mom22Blessings]

uh.....ok.

It's The Woodlands with a Spring, Tomball OR Conroe zip code. No different than The Colony up near Dallas. Klein has a Spring zip too.

You people nit pick over the weirdest things.......

[wxman]

Way out in Montgomery County????? Ok, my house is less than 30 miles from DT. How is that WAY out? It's obvious you haven't been to S. Montgomery County in a while or your just being smart ass. Either way, it's been my experience that the people who tend to belittle a certain place is either jealous that they can't live there or are looking for a fight. Frankly, it's no further out than Katy or League City. I'd say the majority of residents who live in S. County also work in Houston. There is no reason to leave us "out in the cold" so to speak. I'd also argue that the very people who are the life blood of Houston also live outside its boundaries (not all of them). There are CEO's who live outside of River Oaks. This is my opinion but I'll get jumped anyway, why live IN Houston in a hovel and pay out the ____ for it, when I can live 20 or 30 miles out and live in a 3,000 sq.ft. house for the same price?? I prefer the burbs because it is more family oriented. Those who live in the Sugar Land, West Oaks, or any other suburb, I'm sure, feel the same way.

[pineda]

uh.....ok.

It's The Woodlands with a Spring, Tomball OR Conroe zip code. No different than The Colony up near Dallas. Klein has a Spring zip too.

You people nit pick over the weirdest things.......

Yeah, it does get confusing, doesn't it?

Like in the Woodlands' newest neighborhood, Creekside Park.

Located in Harris County, not Montgomery County.

Zoned to Tomball schools, not Conroe schools (like all the Woodlands schools are).

Tell me those people moving in there aren't going to have some headaches there!

[woody_hawkeye]

Yeah, it does get confusing, doesn't it?

Like in the Woodlands' newest neighborhood, Creekside Park.

Located in Harris County, not Montgomery County.

Zoned to Tomball schools, not Conroe schools (like all the Woodlands schools are).

Tell me those people moving in there aren't going to have some headaches there!

Logically, one would have thought that village would have been tied to Klein, but guess it is right on the northern border of that district. I think I heard it is going to have its own high school, in time.

[pineda]

Logically, one would have thought that village would have been tied to Klein, but guess it is right on the northern border of that district. I think I heard it is going to have its own high school, in time.

I heard something like that. I heard that Tomball ISD will be building a new school, but not that it will be located inside Creekside Park.

[bachanon]

uh.....ok.

It's The Woodlands with a Spring, Tomball OR Conroe zip code. No different than The Colony up near Dallas. Klein has a Spring zip too.

You people nit pick over the weirdest things.......

exactly....you say potAto, i say potAHto.

[RedScare]

exactly....you say potAto, i say potAHto.

Interesting that mom22 ignored the poster who picked the first nit (capitalizing the T) so that she could complain about the responses. Having LIVED in the Woodlands longer then mom22, I know how thin skinned they are about their capitalized T, similar to Ohio State alums bragging about THE Ohio State University. Perhaps, it is stating the obvious, but knowing that it gets under their skin, they have virtually guaranteed that the practice will continue.

Note to wxman: 1 million people in a 1044 square mile county equates to 958 persons per square mile...HALF the density of the 1,900 psm Woodlands. You also choose to ignore the fact that mass transit must be paid for. The "deaf ear" in this debate is your own. The only transit even being mentioned in Montgomery County by any official is a possible extension of a commuter rail line from Harris County to Conroe...a useless option until Harris County actually decides to build their commuter line. NO ONE is discussing mass transit within the Woodlands...and for good reason. Woodlanders do not want busses within the Woodlands.

[MidtownCoog]

I love me some South Montgomery County. I worked on Research Forest @ New Trails. Drove there from Midtown and never complianed about transit options.

But why should I with that reverse commute. I think it my commute was 64 miles r/t.

[wxman]

Interesting that mom22 ignored the poster who picked the first nit (capitalizing the T) so that she could complain about the responses. Having LIVED in the Woodlands longer then mom22, I know how thin skinned they are about their capitalized T, similar to Ohio State alums bragging about THE Ohio State University. Perhaps, it is stating the obvious, but knowing that it gets under their skin, they have virtually guaranteed that the practice will continue.

Note to wxman: 1 million people in a 1044 square mile county equates to 958 persons per square mile...HALF the density of the 1,900 psm Woodlands. You also choose to ignore the fact that mass transit must be paid for. The "deaf ear" in this debate is your own. The only transit even being mentioned in Montgomery County by any official is a possible extension of a commuter rail line from Harris County to Conroe...a useless option until Harris County actually decides to build their commuter line. NO ONE is discussing mass transit within the Woodlands...and for good reason. Woodlanders do not want busses within the Woodlands.

I never asked for it in The Woodlands. I asked for it in S. Montgomery County. If I asked for it in The Woodlands, then it was a typo. You say that the density of Montgomery County would equate to 958 persons per square mile. Yeah, that's if all 1 million people lived in every square edge of the county. Montgomery County south of 242 is the most dense and populated. It will only continue to get worse. Who in the hell wants to live in Willis, TX? (no offense to the ones who live there).

As far as busses in The Woodlands, they already have them. They have park and rides all over the place. I don't hear many complaining. Do you not remembering me say that the majority of Woodlanders work IN Houston? Commuter rail would be a nice option for commuters. When gas hit's 4 and 5 dollars a gallon, come talk to me and see if people aren't begging for other means of transportation.

Talk about rail being an unpopular idea, the city insists that they put a rail line down from DT to the W. Loop. If the people who live along that proposed line (Richmond/West Park or whatever it is) don't want it, then why waste the money?? They're the very ones who would use it. I'm a fan and I'll leave it at that.

[RedScare]

wxman, you and woody are talking about 2 different things. He is talking about mass transit within the Woodlands, while you are talking about commuter transit to and from the Woodlands. Woodlands Express currently seves the commuter crowd. Montgomery County has indicated an interest in someday funding an extension of a commuter rail line to Conroe (though the South Montgomery station would likely be east of I-45), but no one is discussing transit within the Woodlands...and probably never will.

Hope that clears up my posts.