Embassy Suites By Hilton Houston Downtown At 1515 Dallas St.

[kylejack]

As you drive into downtown from 288 this building looks Grand!

The gables add a touch of real class & elegance!

Now we look way more cosmopolitan and modern, people. High five to the architects!

Wait, which building?

[Pumapayam]

Wait, which building?

I think he was talking about OPP. . . ya you know me.

[LTAWACS]

As you drive into downtown from 288 this building looks Grand!

The gables add a touch of real class & elegance!

Now we look way more cosmopolitan and modern, people. High five to the architects!

I hereby declare us all.. a civilized people.

[Montrose1100]

I hope the Skinny-Rectangle buildings come to life. I'm more a fan of those then all the rest around Discovery Green.

[Suite8F]

There has been a lot of discussion about the rooftop pool, but I would like to point out that I am not aware of any Embassy Suites with an outdoor pool. So, perhaps it will be an indoor rooftop pool (like the Hilton-Americas).

[LTAWACS]

It's too bad this thing is on hold... ugh/

[wernicke]

It's too bad this thing is on hold... ugh/

Is it on hold? The Chronicle article about the developer securing financing in a difficult climate was only about 3 weeks ago...

[Trae]

It's too bad this thing is on hold... ugh/

ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh

Seriously, enough with your ughs. You need some happiness in your life.

[tierwestah]

I hope this one doesn't suffer the same fate as our friends in Uptown (ie. High Street, Turnberry, Titan, etc)

[LTAWACS]

Is it on hold? The Chronicle article about the developer securing financing in a difficult climate was only about 3 weeks ago...

Yes you are correct. I forgot all about that.

[photolitherland]

photo from yesterday overlain with the projects that will hopefully be going up around DG. I can only hope that this tower is not on hold. But who knows, maybe if this tower craps out we can get something better and taller! Woot!

darker blue is the Embassy Suites, green is the future site of the Dynamo stadium, the brown is the La Quinta, the purple is hopefully going to be the new convention center hotel, the others are obviously Discovery Tower and OPP. Im sure everyone on here already knew this stuff but whatever, thought Id post it anyways.

[strickn]

Thanks very much, photolitherland. To others - Instead of worrying about this project a person might do better to worry about the national convention business itself drying up. The dollars we use only have provisional value, and none of the national policymakers D or R is publicly 'fessing up to the central fact: Just as surely as the new easy jackpots all dried up when we stopped being able to spend tomorrow's money today, so will discretionary spending vanish when these new stimulus dollars start adjusting to reflect the value by which they're less and less hypothetically backed. And with discretionary spending goes most of the cultural lagniappe that we think of as regular civilization. Returning to the smaller subject, people who care about Houston urbanism shouldn't be dismayed, because conventioneers don't make for good neighborhood fabric any more than convention megastructures do. The available space downtown was what it was, but for educational purposes let's imagine how much livelier and more worthwhile the Discovery Green area would be with even a short block and a half or so of neighborhood variety in between the edge of the park and the convention center wall. Bigbiz districts pressure against exactly that sort of flow. Efficiency does not produce good places, dig?

Speaking of which, less than half of Big D is north of the Trinity - who said anything was hiding? While it's in straits in some places, most of what I've seen is livable for precisely the reason that it aint streamlined into efficiency in the usual ways that fail to leave good places for people. Maybe Oak Cliff is undersold compared to Houston like Houston is undersold compared to that wannabe-northeastern-coast city. In the cracks of each of the places' publicity, Texans get to flourish. If the Sixth Ward flowed all the way to Westcott, with perfect Allen Parkway skyline-bayou views, it would unquestionably be more beloved to Houstonians than the Heights, Rice Village or Montrose get to be. That's basically what I experience in a huge triangle all the way from the Zoo to the Sylvan Viaduct. If you mean that South Dallas is tucked out of the way, remember that there is not a city in America where business and residential growth have expanded farther toward downstream than up. Let him whose out-of-town visitors spend much time east of Highway 288 cast the first stone.

I wouldn't count on us having much more to discuss about this development proposal for many moons.

All planing aside, Houston lucked out with a phenomenal skyline. Everyone is envious of Austin, but that's b/c they're finally growing up. I was in Dallas just this weekend, and even with the massive impact of Victory growing right beside it, there's just no comparison. Houston has the biggest, boldest skylines in the state of Texas... hands down.

C) I love this city. It's certainly far from perfect, but the variety and diversity of Houston... whether we're discussing its architecture, its people, or its food... is just world-class. No other Texas city can claim this. I like Dallas alright, but do you know how long you have to drive around that place to find a continuous collection of black people? Hispanics? It's just shameful the way they hide their ghettos from the world like that.

Edited January 6, 2009 by strickn

[TexasVines]

Thanks very much, photolitherland. To others - Instead of worrying about this project a person might do better to worry about the national convention business itself drying up. The dollars we use only have provisional value, and none of the national policymakers D or R is publicly 'fessing up to the central fact: Just as surely as the new easy jackpots all dried up when we stopped being able to spend tomorrow's money today, so will discretionary spending vanish when these new stimulus dollars start adjusting to reflect the value by which they're less and less hypothetically backed. And with discretionary spending goes most of the cultural lagniappe that we think of as regular civilization. Returning to the smaller subject, people who care about Houston urbanism shouldn't be dismayed, because conventioneers don't make for good neighborhood fabric any more than convention megastructures do. The available space downtown was what it was, but for educational purposes let's imagine how much livelier and more worthwhile the Discovery Green area would be with even a short block and a half or so of neighborhood variety in between the edge of the park and the convention center wall. Bigbiz districts pressure against exactly that sort of flow. Efficiency does not produce good places, dig?

Speaking of which, less than half of Big D is north of the Trinity - who said anything was hiding? While it's in straits in some places, most of what I've seen is livable for precisely the reason that it aint streamlined into efficiency in the usual ways that fail to leave good places for people. Maybe Oak Cliff is undersold compared to Houston like Houston is undersold compared to that wannabe-northeastern-coast city. In the cracks of each of the places' publicity, Texans get to flourish. If the Sixth Ward flowed all the way to Westcott, with perfect Allen Parkway skyline-bayou views, it would unquestionably be more beloved to Houstonians than the Heights, Rice Village or Montrose get to be. That's basically what I experience in a huge triangle all the way from the Zoo to the Sylvan Viaduct. If you mean that South Dallas is tucked out of the way, remember that there is not a city in America where business and residential growth have expanded farther toward downstream than up. Let him whose out-of-town visitors spend much time east of Highway 288 cast the first stone.

I wouldn't count on us having much more to discuss about this development proposal for many moons.

yes because our heads will hurt for many moons from reading your post

[uhlaw09]

Following up on a previous discussion about development around DG, here is a more-detailed map that labels the buildings in the renderings below and adds proposed East Line rail routes (including the renderings again for convenience):

[strickn]

gosh, this thing would be a business-class cul-de-sac. Unless you're coming to the park from a baseball game, any Houston resident is going to be leaving the park the same way they came in, instead of having a visual reason to pass through or a physical possibility of strolling across in the course of local living. This matters.

TXVines, I'm not sure what feeling that emoticon meant to put on your sentence, but if posts of more than a paragraph or comments without indents are a problem, maybe we should display them two or three inches wide, like newspaper columns; no one is chapped by those. When my tone is unhelpful and my writing bad communication, I'm sorry, but I still ask you to go ahead and cherry-pick things one by one that help you in thinking about Texas and metropolitan life. As long as you do that, they are more important than a sequence of points or any winning remarks.

Edited January 6, 2009 by strickn

[Houston19514]

gosh, this thing would be a business-class cul-de-sac. Unless you're coming to the park from a baseball game, any Houston resident is going to be leaving the park the same way they came in, instead of having a visual reason to pass through or a physical possibility of strolling across in the course of local living. This matters.

OMG, are you still clinging to that nonsense? The park is successful. Additional hotels and RESIDENTIAL structures in the immediate vicinity will only add to the success.

A lot of people seem to be finding their way to and from the park, even though it does not happen to be on their way to somewhere else. Where did you come up with the idea that a park has to be on someone's path, rather than a destination? Bryant Park, Millennium Park, or for that matter, Central Park, Hermann Park, or Memorial Park, or Forest Park in St. Louis, or Grant Park in Chicago are successful almost entirely because they are great destinations, not because they happen to catch someone's eye while they are out for a stroll. How does it possibly matter whether Houston residents leave the park the same way they came in? (FWIW, I have been to the park quite a few times and have never left the same way I came in. Contrary to your assertions in earlier posts, there are many entry and exit points. It sounds like maybe you should actually go see the park sometime...)

[kylejack]

I have to agree. I was just at the park on Saturday and it was busy as always. Though the ice was closed until 4 PM because of the "unseasonably warm weather" (hahaha, no, pretty much standard for the season).

[LTAWACS]

yes because our heads will hurt for many moons from reading your post

Really?

LOL!!!!!!

[totheskies]

Thanks very much, photolitherland. To others - Instead of worrying about this project a person might do better to worry about the national convention business itself drying up. The dollars we use only have provisional value, and none of the national policymakers D or R is publicly 'fessing up to the central fact: Just as surely as the new easy jackpots all dried up when we stopped being able to spend tomorrow's money today, so will discretionary spending vanish when these new stimulus dollars start adjusting to reflect the value by which they're less and less hypothetically backed. And with discretionary spending goes most of the cultural lagniappe that we think of as regular civilization. Returning to the smaller subject, people who care about Houston urbanism shouldn't be dismayed, because conventioneers don't make for good neighborhood fabric any more than convention megastructures do. The available space downtown was what it was, but for educational purposes let's imagine how much livelier and more worthwhile the Discovery Green area would be with even a short block and a half or so of neighborhood variety in between the edge of the park and the convention center wall. Bigbiz districts pressure against exactly that sort of flow. Efficiency does not produce good places, dig?Speaking of which, less than half of Big D is north of the Trinity - who said anything was hiding? While it's in straits in some places, most of what I've seen is livable for precisely the reason that it aint streamlined into efficiency in the usual ways that fail to leave good places for people. Maybe Oak Cliff is undersold compared to Houston like Houston is undersold compared to that wannabe-northeastern-coast city. In the cracks of each of the places' publicity, Texans get to flourish. If the Sixth Ward flowed all the way to Westcott, with perfect Allen Parkway skyline-bayou views, it would unquestionably be more beloved to Houstonians than the Heights, Rice Village or Montrose get to be. That's basically what I experience in a huge triangle all the way from the Zoo to the Sylvan Viaduct. If you mean that South Dallas is tucked out of the way, remember that there is not a city in America where business and residential growth have expanded farther toward downstream than up. Let him whose out-of-town visitors spend much time east of Highway 288 cast the first stone.

I wouldn't count on us having much more to discuss about this development proposal for many moons.

Yeah, your post kinda confused me too, but I think that planners are working harder to provide mixed-use options in and near Discovery Green. It may not end up like a perfectly segmented block of Uptown Dallas, but the retail allotments in downtown are definitely getting better. But hey, why would we want to be Dallas???

In Houston we like our planning the way we like our music... CHOPPED and SCREWED

[LTAWACS]

[Ethanra]

Last thing i heard from this board and the chron. is that it has financing despite the tough financial climate and it will break ground in March.

[shasta]

gosh, this thing would be a business-class cul-de-sac. Unless you're coming to the park from a baseball game, any Houston resident is going to be leaving the park the same way they came in, instead of having a visual reason to pass through or a physical possibility of strolling across in the course of local living. This matters.

TXVines, I'm not sure what feeling that emoticon meant to put on your sentence, but if posts of more than a paragraph or comments without indents are a problem, maybe we should display them two or three inches wide, like newspaper columns; no one is chapped by those. When my tone is unhelpful and my writing bad communication, I'm sorry, but I still ask you to go ahead and cherry-pick things one by one that help you in thinking about Texas and metropolitan life. As long as you do that, they are more important than a sequence of points or any winning remarks.

Strickin...go away with your unreadable nonsense. I was at discovery Green on Sunday at it was was packed with people enjoying themselves. The park has been a gem of a gift to Houstonians since its days of early planning. I have been following the area VERY closely since the park opened and I've never seen it more alive. I'm talking about bus loads of elemntary school children on a normal Tuesday afternoon, families on the weekends, festival goers, concert goers, crowds from the nearby Astros/Rockers and concerts and tourists from the neighboring hotels. None of this would have never happened wiithout an extreme desire from the city to transform that part of downtown with a MIX of venues and developments.

As far as your other comments- many types of developmnets are in the planning stages for that area- hotels, stadiums, residential, more rail transit, retail, etc. they are all pieces of a larger puzzle.

For someone who likes to complain go find that picture of the area form the late 70's and then compare it to what we have now and report back.

Edited January 6, 2009 by shasta

[strickn]

OMG, are you still clinging to that nonsense? The park is successful. Additional hotels and RESIDENTIAL structures in the immediate vicinity will only add to the success.

A lot of people seem to be finding their way to and from the park, even though it does not happen to be on their way to somewhere else. Where did you come up with the idea that a park has to be on someone's path, rather than a destination? Bryant Park, Millennium Park, or for that matter, Central Park, Hermann Park, or Memorial Park, or Forest Park in St. Louis, or Grant Park in Chicago are successful almost entirely because they are great destinations, not because they happen to catch someone's eye while they are out for a stroll. How does it possibly matter whether Houston residents leave the park the same way they came in? (FWIW, I have been to the park quite a few times and have never left the same way I came in. Contrary to your assertions in earlier posts, there are many entry and exit points. It sounds like maybe you should actually go see the park sometime...)

You make a good point. Bryant Park offers the Public Library; Millennium Park hosts the Art Institute of Chicago. Central Park fronts the American Natural History, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, Neue Galerie and other stuff. Hermann Park has MFAH, the Natural Science Museum, and more. Forest Park gives you I can't remember what-all other than the arboretum, but I think Grant Park has Science and Industry and the Shedd Aquarium. Once Disco Green's surrounding blocks have finished filling with national-label hospitality brands, as you assume the economy will let them do, then what we are looking at is fairly straightforward. I don't doubt for a minute that it's possible to keep the Green programmed enough with local color to charm out-of-towners and the execs staying in One Park Place or the 4 Seasons Residences, and there are upsides to that (I don't remember what prior posts I have ever made about DG, but I have always been quite in agreement with ya about its capacity to be a real estate development magnet; only reserved about its capacity to be very much more in a few years, once the place is ringed by glass lobby walls not so different from the ones that sterilize Smith, Louisiana and Milam). Yet so does the programmed green at Pearland Town Center: and, once that kind of schedule starts to strike consumers as inauthentic, like the indoor mall and its public liveliness began to look to people after awhile...

then I can't foresee how the GRB neighborhood gets any closer to having the built-in resources - built in like the destinations that help keep Bryant Park and all the rest very relevant and so made you think of them - for DG to appear greater than just downtown's piece of flair.

To appear as much greater than that as it still could [with some wise noncommercial use of the double block on the north], anyway.

Once its economic energetic job is done, you want to see it keep enchanting the community. You know the Duchamp doodle off at the edge, by the parking garage entry? For downtown, the current infill program is distressingly apt to leave Discovery Green to function like that hood ornament writ large.

[Houston19514]

You make a good point. Bryant Park offers the Public Library; Millennium Park hosts the Art Institute of Chicago. Central Park fronts the American Natural History, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, Neue Galerie and other stuff. Hermann Park has MFAH, the Natural Science Museum, and more. Forest Park gives you I can't remember what-all other than the arboretum, but I think Grant Park has Science and Industry and the Shedd Aquarium. Once Disco Green's surrounding blocks have finished filling with national-label hospitality brands, as you assume the economy will let them do, then what we are looking at is fairly straightforward. I don't doubt for a minute that it's possible to keep the Green programmed enough with local color to charm out-of-towners and the execs staying in One Park Place or the 4 Seasons Residences, and there are upsides to that (I don't remember what prior posts I have ever made about DG, but I have always been quite in agreement with ya about its capacity to be a real estate development magnet; only reserved about its capacity to be very much more in a few years, once the place is ringed by glass lobby walls not so different from the ones that sterilize Smith, Louisiana and Milam). Yet so does the programmed green at Pearland Town Center: and, once that kind of schedule starts to strike consumers as inauthentic, like the indoor mall and its public liveliness began to look to people after awhile...

then I can't foresee how the GRB neighborhood gets any closer to having the built-in resources - built in like the destinations that help keep Bryant Park and all the rest very relevant and so made you think of them - for DG to appear greater than just downtown's piece of flair.

To appear as much greater than that as it still could [with some wise noncommercial use of the double block on the north], anyway.

Once its economic energetic job is done, you want to see it keep enchanting the community. You know the Duchamp doodle off at the edge, by the parking garage entry? For downtown, the current infill program is distressingly apt to leave Discovery Green to function like that hood ornament writ large.

Apparently you are determined to dislike Discovery Green and completely miss the point.

-- Again, people will be quite able to fight their way by all the fortress buildings to get to Discovery Green, just as they do to get to Bryant Park, etc. etc. etc.

-- The development plans/vision INCLUDE additional residential high-rise development to the north of Discovery Green.

-- The downtown vision includes further residential development of a low to mid-rise nature to the south of Discovery Green.

It is a little hard to determine exactly what your issue is, other than for whatever reason you have decided to dislike Discovery Green and continue to insist it cannot be successful even in the face of all of the evidence to the contrary. Is it that there is insufficient residential in the immediate area? Is it that people will not be able to ind their way into the park because it will be surrounded on all sides by tall buildings? In this latest post you seem to be arguing that it needs to have a destination institution such as a museum in or next to the park, (which, by the way directly contradicts your earlier bizarre requirement . . . that it cannot succeed as a destination but only as something that people happen upon on their way somewhere else).

Further, do you really think Bryant Park thrives only because of the library? Far from it. It's success has very little to do with the library being next door. (FWIW, it is also surrounded by tall buildings. However does anyone ever get into that place?) Or Central Park only because of the museums or Millennium Park only because of the nearby Art Institute? They and others all thrive because of things going on in the parks themselves. Yes, some of that is the dreaded "programming". Whatever. It has been working well for quite some time, hasn't it?

[TexasVines]

Apparently you are determined to dislike Discovery Green and completely miss the point.

-- Again, people will be quite able to fight their way by all the fortress buildings to get to Discovery Green, just as they do to get to Bryant Park, etc. etc. etc.

-- The development plans/vision INCLUDE additional residential high-rise development to the north of Discovery Green.

-- The downtown vision includes further residential development of a low to mid-rise nature to the south of Discovery Green.

It is a little hard to determine exactly what your issue is, other than for whatever reason you have decided to dislike Discovery Green and continue to insist it cannot be successful even in the face of all of the evidence to the contrary. Is it that there is insufficient residential in the immediate area? Is it that people will not be able to ind their way into the park because it will be surrounded on all sides by tall buildings? In this latest post you seem to be arguing that it needs to have a destination institution such as a museum in or next to the park, (which, by the way directly contradicts your earlier bizarre requirement . . . that it cannot succeed as a destination but only as something that people happen upon on their way somewhere else).

Further, do you really think Bryant Park thrives only because of the library? Far from it. It's success has very little to do with the library being next door. (FWIW, it is also surrounded by tall buildings. However does anyone ever get into that place?) Or Central Park only because of the museums or Millennium Park only because of the nearby Art Institute? They and others all thrive because of things going on in the parks themselves. Yes, some of that is the dreaded "programming". Whatever. It has been working well for quite some time, hasn't it?

I believe your attempts to reason with it will fail

[Urbannizer]

Does anyone still thinks this will break ground next month?

Edited February 3, 2009 by UpuPUp!

[Houston19514]

Does anyone still thinks this will break ground next month?

Is there any particular reason to think it won't?

[Urbannizer]

Is there any particular reason to think it won't?

The current economic crisis?

The Developer could call it off...

Edited February 3, 2009 by UpuPUp!

[TheNiche]

Does anyone still thinks this will break ground next month?

I could see it going either way.

Starting a highrise project during a recession is a smart move. Labor and materials are more available and at lower cost...if you can pay for them. And if the market hasn't recovered by completion, it probably will within a reasonable time frame.

On the other hand, banks have gotten so stingy on large projects that it's almost hard for me to believe that we've still been hearing good news up to this point, even, much less that I should be optimistic about it breaking ground in the near future.

[Houston19514]

The current economic crisis?

The Developer could call it off...

So, I guess your answer is no. The "current economic crisis" was well under way when they announced that they had obtained financing and would start construction in March. So far was we know, nothing has changed; so there really is no particular reason to think it will not start next month.

[LTAWACS]

Does anyone still thinks this will break ground next month?

You can count me as a naysayer.

[marc]

Maybe not the right place for it, BUT, if Obama's economic stimulus package goes through, do you all think the Corps. will be spending that $$$ on new projects or pretty much just doing damage control? i wonder if there is some sort of stipulation regarding the bail out. Thoughts?

m.

[ChannelTwoNews]

You can count me as a naysayer.

What's new about that?

[Gary]

You can count me as a naysayer.

Geeez man, your a constant downer. In fact, your the king of the "naysayers".

[rsb320]

You can count me as a naysayer.

Womp

Womp

Womp - Womp

Debbie Downer

[crunchtastic]

Debbie's BFF, Nancy Naysayer

[LTAWACS]

What's new about that?

Hrm... Not sure.

[TheNiche]

Maybe not the right place for it, BUT, if Obama's economic stimulus package goes through, do you all think the Corps. will be spending that $$$ on new projects or pretty much just doing damage control? i wonder if there is some sort of stipulation regarding the bail out. Thoughts?

m.

According to today's Chronicle, the provisions of the bailout as they affect money-losing corporations may look somewhat like this:

MONEY-LOSING COMPANIES:

[houston-development]

This barely (if at all) scratches the surface of the financial sector's problems

i attended a breakfast forecast the other week and the speaker gave a great analogy.

our current financial 'crisis' is like a cat litter box that hasnt been cleaned in over a month. all they are doing is tossing some new litter on top, while the excrement is still there. until someone gets their hands dirty and completely cleans the litter box, it will continue to stink and only get worse.

[tierwestah]

i attended a breakfast forecast the other week and the speaker gave a great analogy.

our current financial 'crisis' is like a cat litter box that hasnt been cleaned in over a month. all they are doing is tossing some new litter on top, while the excrement is still there. until someone gets their hands dirty and completely cleans the litter box, it will continue to stink and only get worse.

So what are you trying to tell us?

[houston-development]

So what are you trying to tell us?

if you or know someone with a cat, dont clean their litter box for a month. afterwards, stick your head in there and take a big wiff. then, throw some clean litter on top and see if it helped.

as a side note, i wouldnt be surprised if this deal fell through because the lender balks. wouldnt be the first nor last to back out at the last minute. not saying it is or isnt moving forward. today, nothing surprises me..

having said that, hypothetically if the lender bails, im willing to bet the developer has no recourse and is stuck holding the bag.

[LTAWACS]

This is not good.

[bkjones98]

So bkjones, you're down with OPP!

Yeah, you know me!

LOL, who's down with OPP?

Sorry, been out-of-pocket for a while.

[DrLan34]

downtown magazine (spring 2009) says the '19 story' embassy suites will breakground in April.

[ricco67]

Well, just buying a new Key Map the other day, I noticed that the Embassy Suites is already listed in the downtown map.

[DrLan34]

excellent.

[HtownWxBoy]

downtown magazine (spring 2009) says the '19 story' embassy suites will breakground in April.

So a 1 month delay... not a big deal considering all that's going on... good news!

[Pumapayam]

downtown magazine (spring 2009) says the '19 story' embassy suites will breakground in April.

If it's not 22 stories, then I don't want it . . . just messing.

But at least we have 2 months to see this thing break ground.

Well, just buying a new Key Map the other day, I noticed that the Embassy Suites is already listed in the downtown map.

People still buy these things?!?!?

[Jax]

What is a Key Map? Is it a map with landmarks on it or something like that? If so, it's probably a good sign.

[rsb320]

What is a Key Map? Is it a map with landmarks on it or something like that? If so, it's probably a good sign.

It's a notebook of maps generally used by cab drivers and delivery personnel. You look up the street name and it references a page and zone/grid to find the detailed location (on paper).

http://www.keymaps.com/

Edited February 26, 2009 by rsb320