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Embassy Suites By Hilton Houston Downtown At 1515 Dallas St.


ricco67

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That picture has 4 new residential buildings, a new stadium, an expansion to the GRB, and a new convention center hotel all in a 5-7 block area. Even if downtown were to add 4 new residential buildings, I would be surprised if they are all along Crawford between the park and MMP. Add that to the current state of the economy, which will most likely wipe out any thought of new residential development downtown in the next 5 years, not to mention compelely alter the development environment in America. I don't expect Miami and Vegas like development anymore, especially not in Houston

And don't forget that when Houston grows, it grows all over the place at a realistic and steady pace.

It may sound pessimistic to some of you, but maybe I've just learned not to set unrealistic expectations. And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be a negative nancy.

Actually, if the office leasing market turns sour (which it seems is already happening), then land prices may revert to a level reflecting that residential is the highest and best use of many sites. This was the case as recently as about 2005. The only real barrier to further residential development at that point would be capital markets. And if Finger's project does particularly well, then you might see similar copycat projects in the same area.

Condos aren't the least bit likely, so I concur with your assessment of Miami/Vegas-style development. I can't imagine that new residential development downtown will be anything excpt rental apartment units...with possibly a few really high-dollar townhomes on the far peripheries.

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There are two empty blocks to the south. The bigger constraint is available hotel rooms for attendees. The GRB is already large enough to handle all but the top 5 or so conventions. With the recession shrinking attendance, they could probably handle all but the biggest 1 or 2...IF they had the hotel rooms.

Of course, you could go to Reliant, which has 50% more exhibit space than GRB, and more than every city except Las Vegas, Orlando and Chicago.

Yeah, I'm aware of the two blocks to the south. But those blocks are not as deep as the current structure, I don't think and don't really allow for a very significant expansion... plus how LONG can you reasonably make the building? Not a big concern and certainly not on the short-term list, but I suspect when they built the Albert Thomas Convention Center they never thought they would need room to expand it, either...

Clearly, the concern at this time is hotel space. Again, I am talking about long-term... at least 10, probably 20-30 years down the road.

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Has anyone else noticed what looks to be a gigantic beach type pool on top of the convention hotel?

I noticed trees and outdoor space, and in looking closer, see what looks like a pool. As I said previously, why does this area turn its back on DG?

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I had noticed that "blob" too. I wouldn't make too much of it.

or that the exterior design of the new convention hotel is actually very similar to the hilton? i wouldn't put much stock in this particular rendering... seems to be more of a placeholder than an actual design.

and anyone who thinks it will be 2040 or 2050 before we see a handful of residential towers, a new hotel, and a soccer stadium is out of their mind.... hell, i will guarantee that most of those go up by 2020

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why does this area turn its back on DG?

what do you mean? Are you saying if there is an outdoor area on the hotel that it should be on the side of DG?

or that the exterior design of the new convention hotel is actually very similar to the hilton? i wouldn't put much stock in this particular rendering... seems to be more of a placeholder than an actual design.

It is similar, but different enough IMO. I'm guessing it's most likely a place holder as well, especially since the design is so similar. It's fun to speculate though.

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I noticed trees and outdoor space, and in looking closer, see what looks like a pool. As I said previously, why does this area turn its back on DG?

Actually, I'm not sure it really makes much difference. Think about it... the pool area of that design is probably at least six stories high. For people out around the pool, the only way they would see anything of Discovery Green from there would be if they went and stood at the edge and looked down over the railing.

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Actually, I'm not sure it really makes much difference. Think about it... the pool area of that design is probably at least six stories high. For people out around the pool, the only way they would see anything of Discovery Green from there would be if they went and stood at the edge and looked down over the railing.

That's where I'd be, with my cocktail, looking down at the park to see the remote boats, ice skaters and people watching (stalking), etc.

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  • 4 weeks later...

photo from yesterday overlain with the projects that will hopefully be going up around DG. I can only hope that this tower is not on hold. But who knows, maybe if this tower craps out we can get something better and taller! Woot!

darker blue is the Embassy Suites, green is the future site of the Dynamo stadium, the brown is the La Quinta, the purple is hopefully going to be the new convention center hotel, the others are obviously Discovery Tower and OPP. Im sure everyone on here already knew this stuff but whatever, thought Id post it anyways.

3172361725_c6eb34b0db_o.jpg

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Thanks very much, photolitherland. To others - Instead of worrying about this project a person might do better to worry about the national convention business itself drying up. The dollars we use only have provisional value, and none of the national policymakers D or R is publicly 'fessing up to the central fact: Just as surely as the new easy jackpots all dried up when we stopped being able to spend tomorrow's money today, so will discretionary spending vanish when these new stimulus dollars start adjusting to reflect the value by which they're less and less hypothetically backed. And with discretionary spending goes most of the cultural lagniappe that we think of as regular civilization. Returning to the smaller subject, people who care about Houston urbanism shouldn't be dismayed, because conventioneers don't make for good neighborhood fabric any more than convention megastructures do. The available space downtown was what it was, but for educational purposes let's imagine how much livelier and more worthwhile the Discovery Green area would be with even a short block and a half or so of neighborhood variety in between the edge of the park and the convention center wall. Bigbiz districts pressure against exactly that sort of flow. Efficiency does not produce good places, dig?

Speaking of which, less than half of Big D is north of the Trinity - who said anything was hiding? While it's in straits in some places, most of what I've seen is livable for precisely the reason that it aint streamlined into efficiency in the usual ways that fail to leave good places for people. Maybe Oak Cliff is undersold compared to Houston like Houston is undersold compared to that wannabe-northeastern-coast city. In the cracks of each of the places' publicity, Texans get to flourish. If the Sixth Ward flowed all the way to Westcott, with perfect Allen Parkway skyline-bayou views, it would unquestionably be more beloved to Houstonians than the Heights, Rice Village or Montrose get to be. That's basically what I experience in a huge triangle all the way from the Zoo to the Sylvan Viaduct. If you mean that South Dallas is tucked out of the way, remember that there is not a city in America where business and residential growth have expanded farther toward downstream than up. Let him whose out-of-town visitors spend much time east of Highway 288 cast the first stone.

I wouldn't count on us having much more to discuss about this development proposal for many moons.

All planing aside, Houston lucked out with a phenomenal skyline. Everyone is envious of Austin, but that's b/c they're finally growing up. I was in Dallas just this weekend, and even with the massive impact of Victory growing right beside it, there's just no comparison. Houston has the biggest, boldest skylines in the state of Texas... hands down.

C) I love this city. It's certainly far from perfect, but the variety and diversity of Houston... whether we're discussing its architecture, its people, or its food... is just world-class. No other Texas city can claim this. I like Dallas alright, but do you know how long you have to drive around that place to find a continuous collection of black people? Hispanics? It's just shameful the way they hide their ghettos from the world like that.

Edited by strickn
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Thanks very much, photolitherland. To others - Instead of worrying about this project a person might do better to worry about the national convention business itself drying up. The dollars we use only have provisional value, and none of the national policymakers D or R is publicly 'fessing up to the central fact: Just as surely as the new easy jackpots all dried up when we stopped being able to spend tomorrow's money today, so will discretionary spending vanish when these new stimulus dollars start adjusting to reflect the value by which they're less and less hypothetically backed. And with discretionary spending goes most of the cultural lagniappe that we think of as regular civilization. Returning to the smaller subject, people who care about Houston urbanism shouldn't be dismayed, because conventioneers don't make for good neighborhood fabric any more than convention megastructures do. The available space downtown was what it was, but for educational purposes let's imagine how much livelier and more worthwhile the Discovery Green area would be with even a short block and a half or so of neighborhood variety in between the edge of the park and the convention center wall. Bigbiz districts pressure against exactly that sort of flow. Efficiency does not produce good places, dig?

Speaking of which, less than half of Big D is north of the Trinity - who said anything was hiding? While it's in straits in some places, most of what I've seen is livable for precisely the reason that it aint streamlined into efficiency in the usual ways that fail to leave good places for people. Maybe Oak Cliff is undersold compared to Houston like Houston is undersold compared to that wannabe-northeastern-coast city. In the cracks of each of the places' publicity, Texans get to flourish. If the Sixth Ward flowed all the way to Westcott, with perfect Allen Parkway skyline-bayou views, it would unquestionably be more beloved to Houstonians than the Heights, Rice Village or Montrose get to be. That's basically what I experience in a huge triangle all the way from the Zoo to the Sylvan Viaduct. If you mean that South Dallas is tucked out of the way, remember that there is not a city in America where business and residential growth have expanded farther toward downstream than up. Let him whose out-of-town visitors spend much time east of Highway 288 cast the first stone.

I wouldn't count on us having much more to discuss about this development proposal for many moons.

yes because our heads will hurt for many moons from reading your post :huh:

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gosh, this thing would be a business-class cul-de-sac. Unless you're coming to the park from a baseball game, any Houston resident is going to be leaving the park the same way they came in, instead of having a visual reason to pass through or a physical possibility of strolling across in the course of local living. This matters.

TXVines, I'm not sure what feeling that emoticon meant to put on your sentence, but if posts of more than a paragraph or comments without indents are a problem, maybe we should display them two or three inches wide, like newspaper columns; no one is chapped by those. When my tone is unhelpful and my writing bad communication, I'm sorry, but I still ask you to go ahead and cherry-pick things one by one that help you in thinking about Texas and metropolitan life. As long as you do that, they are more important than a sequence of points or any winning remarks.

Edited by strickn
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gosh, this thing would be a business-class cul-de-sac. Unless you're coming to the park from a baseball game, any Houston resident is going to be leaving the park the same way they came in, instead of having a visual reason to pass through or a physical possibility of strolling across in the course of local living. This matters.

OMG, are you still clinging to that nonsense? The park is successful. Additional hotels and RESIDENTIAL structures in the immediate vicinity will only add to the success.

A lot of people seem to be finding their way to and from the park, even though it does not happen to be on their way to somewhere else. Where did you come up with the idea that a park has to be on someone's path, rather than a destination? Bryant Park, Millennium Park, or for that matter, Central Park, Hermann Park, or Memorial Park, or Forest Park in St. Louis, or Grant Park in Chicago are successful almost entirely because they are great destinations, not because they happen to catch someone's eye while they are out for a stroll. How does it possibly matter whether Houston residents leave the park the same way they came in? (FWIW, I have been to the park quite a few times and have never left the same way I came in. Contrary to your assertions in earlier posts, there are many entry and exit points. It sounds like maybe you should actually go see the park sometime...)

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Thanks very much, photolitherland. To others - Instead of worrying about this project a person might do better to worry about the national convention business itself drying up. The dollars we use only have provisional value, and none of the national policymakers D or R is publicly 'fessing up to the central fact: Just as surely as the new easy jackpots all dried up when we stopped being able to spend tomorrow's money today, so will discretionary spending vanish when these new stimulus dollars start adjusting to reflect the value by which they're less and less hypothetically backed. And with discretionary spending goes most of the cultural lagniappe that we think of as regular civilization. Returning to the smaller subject, people who care about Houston urbanism shouldn't be dismayed, because conventioneers don't make for good neighborhood fabric any more than convention megastructures do. The available space downtown was what it was, but for educational purposes let's imagine how much livelier and more worthwhile the Discovery Green area would be with even a short block and a half or so of neighborhood variety in between the edge of the park and the convention center wall. Bigbiz districts pressure against exactly that sort of flow. Efficiency does not produce good places, dig?Speaking of which, less than half of Big D is north of the Trinity - who said anything was hiding? While it's in straits in some places, most of what I've seen is livable for precisely the reason that it aint streamlined into efficiency in the usual ways that fail to leave good places for people. Maybe Oak Cliff is undersold compared to Houston like Houston is undersold compared to that wannabe-northeastern-coast city. In the cracks of each of the places' publicity, Texans get to flourish. If the Sixth Ward flowed all the way to Westcott, with perfect Allen Parkway skyline-bayou views, it would unquestionably be more beloved to Houstonians than the Heights, Rice Village or Montrose get to be. That's basically what I experience in a huge triangle all the way from the Zoo to the Sylvan Viaduct. If you mean that South Dallas is tucked out of the way, remember that there is not a city in America where business and residential growth have expanded farther toward downstream than up. Let him whose out-of-town visitors spend much time east of Highway 288 cast the first stone.

I wouldn't count on us having much more to discuss about this development proposal for many moons.

Yeah, your post kinda confused me too, but I think that planners are working harder to provide mixed-use options in and near Discovery Green. It may not end up like a perfectly segmented block of Uptown Dallas, but the retail allotments in downtown are definitely getting better. But hey, why would we want to be Dallas???

In Houston we like our planning the way we like our music... CHOPPED and SCREWED

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