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The Langley: Residential High-Rise At 1717 Bissonnet St.


musicman

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For the snarky folks who were hoping for a low income housing project to shove it down the snooty neighbors' collective throats, you do realize this is replacing an older apartment complex, right? I'd imagine the rents in a new high rise will be double what they are at Maryland Manor.

The folks who live in Southampton, Boulevard Oaks, Shadowlawn, and Broadacres aren't opposed to this development because it will bring in the wrong type of people. They are opposed because the scale is totally out of whack. The largest thing around there at the moment is the Rice Graduate Apartments and this Ashby Tower will be 220 feet taller!!! Additionally, wxman nailed it, this is NOT a good location for a large scaled high rise. Bissonnet will really be maxed out...

FULL DISCLAIMER, I live in Southampton although quite a bit away from this project.

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The folks who live in Southampton, Boulevard Oaks, Shadowlawn, and Broadacres aren't opposed to this development because it will bring in the wrong type of people. They are opposed because the scale is totally out of whack. The largest thing around there at the moment is the Rice Graduate Apartments and this Ashby Tower will be 220 feet taller!!! Additionally, wxman nailed it, this is NOT a good location for a large scaled high rise. Bissonnet will really be maxed out...

FULL DISCLAIMER, I live in Southampton although quite a bit away from this project.

When you mention Bissonet to most Houstonians, they are are going to picture it as a major 5 lane thoroughfare. They are going to picture it with all it's commercial properties stretching from the West up to Morningside. They'll also picture it as one of the major streets that runs through the heart of our Musuem District. If they look it up on Google maps, they'll see that it is one of the yellow lines indicated a major street.. one of only 3 major E-W streets that run the majority of the distance between 610 and 288 between 59 and the South Loop.

What they do not imagine is the 1 mile stretch, 2 lane residential stretch between that commercial and museum district that really has no bizness being there.

Bissonet might be schizo.. but I laugh at the scale arguments... because it effin Bissonnet and a project such as this should be on such a street. The project is NOT being built on Wroxton or Albans a few blocks off Bissonnet.. it is on effin Bissonnet.

You have commercial half a mile to your west. You have museums half a mile to your east, and you have, as you mentioned, the Rice Apartments and parking garage a few blocks away.

Not only should this project be built here.. but this 1 mile stretch of Bissonnet should be expanded to 4 lane in order to fully wear its name proudly.

Also I laugh because the opponents of this project have screwed themselves over.

They HAD a retail component... maybe a wine bar, maybe a coffee shop, maybe a high-end dry cleaners. But thanks to their bitching and moaning.. all gone.

They HAD high end condos.. They now have rented apartments. So not only do they have poorer new neighbors, but more of them, considering the condo units would have been larger and fewer in number. Their bitching and moaning has made the traffic problem worse.

DISCLAIMER: I recently lived half a mile from this project and supported it fully even then.

I now live a mile away but travel through the neighborhood multiple times a week on the way to the med center... so screw you Ashby haters that has cost me a coffee shop, wine bar or dry cleaners along my route. I hope you all get Vitamin D deficient from all that Ashby Hi-rise sun blockage.

Edited by Highway6
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So happy that this is going forward. This project had so much potential though, but due to local residents' NIMBYness, they are now getting just a regular apartment building. Oh well, could have made the area a lot more walkable, still glad to add another highrise to Houston! :D

FULL DISCLAIMER - I used to live exactly one block away, and was stunned at all of those NIMBYs.

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Just curious...do people favoring this project do so out of spite for the NIMBYs, or do you genuinely think it's ideal to errect high-rises in the middle of low-density neighborhoods consisting primarily of two-story homes and businesses? On one hand, maybe this is our best hope for residential densification in this city, since it's clearly not happening in the CBD. On the other hand, maybe such buildings will in fact degrade the surrounding neighborhood and diminish the desirability, as these are car-dependent developments that aren't going to make neighborhoods more walkable and livable for existing residents, at least with the revised plans. I have similar mixed feelings about 1111 Studewood.

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Just curious...do people favoring this project do so out of spite for the NIMBYs, or do you genuinely think it's ideal to errect high-rises in the middle of low-density neighborhoods consisting primarily of two-story homes and businesses? On one hand, maybe this is our best hope for residential densification in this city, since it's clearly not happening in the CBD. On the other hand, maybe such buildings will in fact degrade the surrounding neighborhood and diminish the desirability, as these are car-dependent developments that aren't going to make neighborhoods more walkable and livable for existing residents, at least with the revised plans. I have similar mixed feelings about 1111 Studewood.

Every neighborhood in Houston that I can think of started off as low-density at some point in time. You can't make an omelet without cracking a few eggs. And besides, there are several highrises with car-dependent inhabitants in the vicinity of River Oaks, yet River Oaks does not appear to have been diminished in its desirability. The fearmongering is not supported empirically. If you believe otherwise, I beg you for data!

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Just curious...do people favoring this project do so out of spite for the NIMBYs, or do you genuinely think it's ideal to errect high-rises in the middle of low-density neighborhoods consisting primarily of two-story homes and businesses? On one hand, maybe this is our best hope for residential densification in this city, since it's clearly not happening in the CBD. On the other hand, maybe such buildings will in fact degrade the surrounding neighborhood and diminish the desirability, as these are car-dependent developments that aren't going to make neighborhoods more walkable and livable for existing residents, at least with the revised plans. I have similar mixed feelings about 1111 Studewood.

I think it's a beautiful building and is replacing an apartment complex anyway, that's why I'm in support of it.

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Just curious...do people favoring this project do so out of spite for the NIMBYs, or do you genuinely think it's ideal to errect high-rises in the middle of low-density neighborhoods consisting primarily of two-story homes and businesses? On one hand, maybe this is our best hope for residential densification in this city, since it's clearly not happening in the CBD. On the other hand, maybe such buildings will in fact degrade the surrounding neighborhood and diminish the desirability, as these are car-dependent developments that aren't going to make neighborhoods more walkable and livable for existing residents, at least with the revised plans. I have similar mixed feelings about 1111 Studewood.

Every part of this town is low density (it can be argued that midtown is somewhere in the middle). If it doesn't make sense to add density to an area Houston will continue to grow outward, I don't think this is sustainable realistically.

At some point in history, every high density area was once low density. Some group of residents are going to have to not fight against high density in their area in order for this to happen.

full disclosure: I live in east end, so I will not have to concern myself with the direct impact of high density for quite some time, but it wouldn't bother me if I could see a high rise towering from my backyard.

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People need to use google earth and LOOK at this location.

Comparing Bissonnet @ Ashby with say 2121 Kirby (The address of The Huntigdon, Houston's tallest and most expensive high rise) is silly.

First off, The Huntingdon only has 115 units so you are dealing with FAR fewer people. Secondly, Kirby has SIX lanes of traffic at this location. It is just South of San Felipe, a four-laned major street. It's neighbors are River Oaks Elementary across the street and a 15 story office tower next door.

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People need to use google earth and LOOK at this location.

Comparing Bissonnet @ Ashby with say 2121 Kirby (The address of The Huntigdon, Houston's tallest and most expensive high rise) is silly.

First off, The Huntingdon only has 115 units so you are dealing with FAR fewer people. Secondly, Kirby has SIX lanes of traffic at this location. It is just South of San Felipe, a four-laned major street. It's neighbors are River Oaks Elementary across the street and a 15 story office tower next door.

How many units does the current Bissonnet location have compared to the Ashby highrise?

Was the 15 story office building built before or after the Huntingdon?

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People need to use google earth and LOOK at this location.

Comparing Bissonnet @ Ashby with say 2121 Kirby (The address of The Huntigdon, Houston's tallest and most expensive high rise) is silly.

First off, The Huntingdon only has 115 units so you are dealing with FAR fewer people. Secondly, Kirby has SIX lanes of traffic at this location. It is just South of San Felipe, a four-laned major street. It's neighbors are River Oaks Elementary across the street and a 15 story office tower next door.

All joking aside I agree it is a stupid place for a high rise, but that's Houston for you.

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People need to use google earth and LOOK at this location.

As you mentioned in the Parc Binz thread..... Binz(Bissonnet) on the other side of Main has 4 lanes. At Main (where it look like on google maps that they have 5 lanes), The ROW at that point is 72'

Bissonnet transitions from 4 lanes to 2 lanes around Kelvin/ Morningside. The ROW on Bissonnet between Morningside and Montrose is mostly 63' but is actually 77' at Ashby.

EXPAND Bissonnet NOW ! There is plenty of room for a dedicated turn lane or perhaps 4 full lanes.

SouthHampton needs to stop treating their small segment of Bissonnet as a neighborhood street. It is not. All their streets that run parallel to or intersect Bissonnet are their neighborhood streets.

Bissonnet is classified by the City of Houston GMIS as a Major Thoroughfare. The 1.5 mile stretch from Kirby to Montrose can and should be expanded.

All joking aside I agree it is a stupid place for a high rise, but that's Houston for you.

Why ?

This location is on a major thoroughfare. It is located 1/2 to 3/4ths of a mile from 2 other major thoroughfares. It is located less than half a mile from a prestigious university and less than 1 mile from the 2nd largest employment center in the city. It is a great location.

Lots of major thoroughfares have neighborhoods, even insanely pricey neighborhoods, right off them. The only reason this location is any different is that the neighborhood actually thinks they own this stretch of major thoroughfare and that the rest of the city has no right to it. Bissonnet is not a neighborhood street.

It's a fine location for this kind of project and this segment of road is a perfect candidate for expansion.

West Alabama has the exact same ROW - 63'.... Bissonnet could easily be made a 3 lane road with a similar lane changing setup probably without even losing any trees.

PS... I didn't realize Buckhead had this all up on their webpage.. but they a good job explaining what Bissonnet is per the city guidelines.

PS II... Metro doesn't run buses on neighborhood streets.. they run them on major thoroughfares, like Bissonnet.

PS III... And it's not a hi-rise. It's a midrise. It will be close in height to these two residential midrises, which also happen to be on a major thoroughfare immediately surrounded by residential neighborhoods.

Edited by Highway6
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Are you seriously calling a 23 story tower a midrise? That's not a stretch, that's a tear.

By pretty much EVERY standard, this tower is a highrise.

Also, Bissonnet near Ashby IS a residential street. The majority of structures along Bissonnet between Greenbrier and Montrose are residential in nature and nearly 100% of the businesses are located in structures that were originally built as single family homes.

Also, I'd have no problem with this tower being built along Montrose near the Museum Tower or 5000 Montrose Condo Tower because that stretch of Montrose is full of towers, offices, churches, libraries, businesses, restaurants, etc... That's exactly where a tower like this one SHOULD be built.

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I agree. Four or five stories is what I would call a midrise.

And just because there are similar atrocities all over Houston, that doesn't make this one right. Still, as I said before, this is Houston and what can you do?

Edited by Fringe
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Just curious...do people favoring this project do so out of spite for the NIMBYs, or do you genuinely think it's ideal to errect high-rises in the middle of low-density neighborhoods consisting primarily of two-story homes and businesses? On one hand, maybe this is our best hope for residential densification in this city, since it's clearly not happening in the CBD. On the other hand, maybe such buildings will in fact degrade the surrounding neighborhood and diminish the desirability, as these are car-dependent developments that aren't going to make neighborhoods more walkable and livable for existing residents, at least with the revised plans. I have similar mixed feelings about 1111 Studewood.

I think much of it is spite, but that's just speculation and stereotyping from comments on here.

Honestly, I don't get the favor of this project in the name of "density" and "walkability". Things like "density" and "walkability" only occur when high capacity facilities are built within walking distance from other high capacity facilities. Building an island of "density"... a single building... in the middle of a residential neighborhood does nothing for "density" nor "walkability" because one still has to drive through the neighborhood to reach other neighborhood-surrounded islands of single building "density".

I suppose someday... eventually... in like many, many years all of the islands will infill and the utopic ideal of "density" and "walkability" will be achieved. But it would occur much, much faster if the high capacity facilities were built closer together, within walking distance from each other. If only... only... there were some mechanism to encourage that.

Edited by Gooch
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Since this city will not get itself together with a comprehensive plan, let alone zoning, projects like this will become the rule, not the exception. Residents have voted down zoning numerous times, but when projects like this sprout up, they cry. I have no sympathy for a place that refuses to think and plan long term. That regressive thinking will continue to pit neighbor against developer and prevent this city from developing into a well-planned "utopia" where both single family and multi-family residences co-habitate peacefully.

And, since there is no plan, I see developments like this as god-sends. At least terms such as "walk-ability" and "density" are being discussed while Houston crawls towards being a place that resembles a smarter, more sustainable, transit-inclusive, viable, post-1950's-era city. Yes, developments like this would be better placed where other, similar buildings were being built and amenities such as wide sidewalks, stores, and markets were within walking distance. But, that would suppose a lot more changes that this city has not made and will not make anytime soon. So, in the mean time, we get developments such as these in "random" places. Welcome to Houston.

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Honestly, I don't get the favor of this project in the name of "density" and "walkability". Things like "density" and "walkability" only occur when high capacity facilities are built within walking distance from other high capacity facilities. Building an island of "density"... a single building... in the middle of a residential neighborhood does nothing for "density" nor "walkability" because one still has to drive through the neighborhood to reach other neighborhood-surrounded islands of single building "density".

The Ashby site is within one mile of Rice University, St. Thomas University, the Menil Collection, the core of the Museum District, the Red Line, the (eventual Universities Line), Hermann Park, the Houston Zoo, the northern part of the Texas Medical Center, the greater part of Rice Village, and Shepherd Square. The neighborhood surrounding it is very pleasant to walk through, with most streets having sidewalks, and with the neighborhood not having a reputation for harboring any significant criminal element.

The neighborhood is already walkable. A highrise simply enables more people to take enjoyment from that fact.

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The Ashby site is within one mile of Rice University, St. Thomas University, the Menil Collection, the core of the Museum District, the Red Line, the (eventual Universities Line), Hermann Park, the Houston Zoo, the northern part of the Texas Medical Center, the greater part of Rice Village, and Shepherd Square. The neighborhood surrounding it is very pleasant to walk through, with most streets having sidewalks, and with the neighborhood not having a reputation for harboring any significant criminal element.

The neighborhood is already walkable. A highrise simply enables more people to take enjoyment from that fact.

Yes, the neighborhood is ideal for recreational walking. But it's 13 blocks to the nearest supermarket, 12-17 blocks to the Village, and 4+ miles to the CBD. The future residents are likely to drive for the vast majority of their trips.

I will grant you that if I lived in the area, I would bicycle as much as possible.

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Are you seriously calling a 23 story tower a midrise? That's not a stretch, that's a tear.

By pretty much EVERY standard, this tower is a highrise.

Also, Bissonnet near Ashby IS a residential street. The majority of structures along Bissonnet between Greenbrier and Montrose are residential in nature and nearly 100% of the businesses are located in structures that were originally built as single family homes.

i think theres still question as to whether this is 23 or 18 stories.

still a highrise.

richmond in multiple areas is flanked by nothing but residential, not even houses that turned into businesses, but nothing but houses, but it's still a major thoroughfare, as designated by the city. so is bissonnet. true there are less lanes, but that can and likely will change. it should change.

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Yes, the neighborhood is ideal for recreational walking. But it's 13 blocks to the nearest supermarket, 12-17 blocks to the Village, and 4+ miles to the CBD. The future residents are likely to drive for the vast majority of their trips.

Well yeah. And the current residents of One Park Place probably drive for the vast majority of their trips. And I just walked back to my single-family home from my watering-hole-of-choice, over a mile and a half distant in suburbia, without the availability of sidewalks. So...what's your point?

Edited by TheNiche
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I think it's a beautiful building and is replacing an apartment complex anyway, that's why I'm in support of it.

Same here.

Well yeah. And the current residents of One Park Place probably drive for the vast majority of their trips. And I just walked back to my single-family home from my watering-hole-of-choice, over a mile and a half distant in suburbia, without the availability of sidewalks. So...what's your point?

I thought that looked like you.

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It looks like Randy Locke (running for city council) is wanting to pay off the developers to try and keep them from building the highrise.

Swamplot

http://swamplot.com/paying-the-ashby-highrise-away/2011-10-11/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+swamplot+%28Swamplot%3A+Houston%27s+Real+Estate+Landscape%29

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