The Langley: Residential High-Rise At 1717 Bissonnet St.

[musicman]

13 just had a story about a proposed 23 story high rise and how southhampton and boulevard oaks are complaining about the increased density/traffic etc that will result. they will be tearing down some older apartments to create this project.

story

Edited June 3, 2008 by musicman

[ricco67]

Looks like this slipped under the radar as well:

23 story with five-level parking garage.

17 floors of apartments including

Specialty Retail (street)

Fine dining Restaurant (street)

spa (6th floor)

Executive suite office space (6th)

226 apartments or 187 owned condos

5 live/work townhomes (street/through 5th level

it will be a red brick exterior.

Edited September 20, 2007 by ricco67

[Jax]

Rock on! This is awesome, especially since I'll be able to walk to it!

Any renderings, or timeframe?

I don't recall any empty space in this area, but maybe I am wrong. It's right across from the Hillel house near the Rice Grad Student Apartments, I think.

Edited September 20, 2007 by Jax

[ChannelTwoNews]

I don't recall any empty space in this area, but maybe I am wrong. It's right across from the Hillel house near the Rice Grad Student Apartments, I think.

After a bit of searching, Maryland Manor Apartments seems to be what occupies the address at the moment.

I drive through the area a fair bit and think it would be great to see something of that height near the university. I'm Also impressed with the different uses planned. Have to keep up to see how this one pans out!

Edited September 20, 2007 by ChannelTwoNews

[VicMan]

If this is built, then this will be zoned to the following Houston ISD schools:

* Poe ES

* Lanier MS

* Lamar HS

[nate]

Sounds like a nice place to live.

When I first saw this thread, my initial reaction was that there would be a lot of upset, wealthy homeowners nearby. The news story proves my intuition right.

Who is the developer and what is the project website? How many apartments are currently on the site?

Edited September 20, 2007 by nate

[Subdude]

Note dupe topics merged.

It does seem like it would be out of scale for that location. I can understand the neighborhood would be upset. There's probably not a lot they can do to stop it however. There is already one highrise adjacent to the Southampton neighborhood off of Kirby.

[musicman]

Note dupe topics merged.

It does seem like it would be out of scale for that location. I can understand the neighborhood would be upset. There's probably not a lot they can do to stop it however.

it will be interesting to see what happens particularly when the neighborhood has the bucks to back up their words.

[Jax]

Well after all there is no zoning, so how could they stop it?

Interesting that they would tear down Maryland Manor. A lot of Rice students live there. I almost rented there myself... I'd rather live in the highrise though, especially since it would be mixed use. Unless it's just way too expensive, it would be a grad student paradise. I used to live around the corner from there, and I would have definitely liked the fact that there would be more restaurants near by.

[talltexan83]

I drive by Maryland Manor on a daily basis and a new 23 story high rise on that property would look very out of place. While the developer may not have any restrictions on the property, it is bounded by deed restricted neighborhoods on each side. This project would be far more appropriate in the Museum District or the Village with better transport options. If they are commited to building on the site, I suggest they follow the lead of the Rohe project on Sunset Blvd. (Cheyenne Walk?)

And Maryland Manor went through a dramatic facelift a few years ago and is one of the more appealing complexes in the area. Many of the tenants are Rice students that walk or ride their bike to campus. However, I think the biggest hurdle will be the existing traffic congestion that exists along Bissonnet. It is a traffic jam every afternoon by 4:30 and the inclusion of a high rise (with entrance/exit on to Bissonnet) seems unfeasible.

I expect a good fight from the surrounding neighborhoods. This reminds me a lot of the proposed project a few years back behind the Half Price Books in the Village that never made it off the drawing board. Time will tell.

[musicman]

Well after all there is no zoning, so how could they stop it?

Interesting that they would tear down Maryland Manor. A lot of Rice students live there. I almost rented there myself... I'd rather live in the highrise though, especially since it would be mixed use. Unless it's just way too expensive, it would be a grad student paradise. I used to live around the corner from there, and I would have definitely liked the fact that there would be more restaurants near by.

sounds like they are going for negative publicity so that they can get a response from the developer.

it will be higher end units so i doubt a grad student could afford it.

[Jax]

I agree, I wouldn't mind if it were closer to the red line but still in the "museum district", or even midtown. I hope they build it somewhere though. The idea of a mixed use highrise appeals to me. Especially one that gives me more places that I can walk to.

Edited September 20, 2007 by Jax

[aferall]

Another story here, with links to the developer's site.

[KinkaidAlum]

I am not too excited about this one mainly because the building is being designed by EDI Architecture. They specialize in tunnel-form construction and have given the Houston area such beauties as the Mercer and Endeavour.

[sevfiv]

ehh...well, the cartoon is kinda funny

[KinkaidAlum]

Scoreboard.

This area was able to stop the 28 story Shakespeare (to be built just South of the Village) but wasn't able to stop the 17 story Robinhood.

This area was able to stop a proposal for a tower on Sunset (I think it was going to be 16 stories tall) but haven't been able to stop the Medical Clinic (so far) from building a new office building on Sunset.

I think it will be harder to stop a tower proposal on Bissonnet however. That street is a hodge-podge of converted businesses, medical clinics, yoga studios, apartments, restaurants, and even gas stations. I do feel sorry for the homes on South Blvd. Their pretty back yards will now have some company!

[talltexan83]

I just don't recall that much opposition to the building on Robinhood. It it surrounded by commercial businesses (including a 10+ story IBC bank) and offers far easier access to the freeway and Rice Village. This proposal would offer neither.

Given the concentrated wealth in the area, I would except some kind of compromise to be reached with the developer. A mixed use development would be great, but 23 stories is just exploiting the available land, without regard for the surroundings. Somewhere along Montrose Blvd (less than a mile away) would be much more in tune with the surrounding landscape.

Edited September 20, 2007 by talltexan83

[lockmat]

http://www.buckfund.com/1717%20Bissonnet/

Other things I thought notable:

If this further examination of projected traffic warrants the installation of a traffic signal and it is approved by the City of Houston , we will pay to have the signal installed.

The number of parking spaces is sufficient to accommodate all residents, dining and retail customers, and guests. The garage is designed to minimize its appearance as a garage.

[jfre81]

My wife works not far from where this is going up(?)...

I could see this area becoming higher-density in the future but right now the transit infrastructure is not there. The University Line will run not far from there....when it comes to be - if it comes to be, it seems anymore.

I agree this is better suited for Main Street. They could plop this on the Greyhound station site and nobody in Midtown would complain about it being 28 stories. Or it could be around the other high-rise buildings between Montrose and the Museum district.

[VelvetJ]

I had ambivalent feelings about this until I read EDI would design it. Now I am TOTALLY against it. Whether it's on Main, Bisonnet or some other place in the Museum District, Houston could do better without another eyesore from EDI . Fight homowners...fight!

[lockmat]

I had ambivalent feelings about this until I read EDI would design it. Now I am TOTALLY against it. Whether it's on Main, Bisonnet or some other place in the Museum District, Houston could do better without another eyesore from EDI . Fight homowners...fight!

I just looked at their portfolio. I like their stuff alright.

[Subdude]

sounds like they are going for negative publicity so that they can get a response from the developer.

Yes, and we all saw what a successful strategy that was with the River Oaks Shopping Center.

[woolie]

I support all tall buildings that have potential to bring out NIMBYs. I just love watching hypocrites in action.

[musicman]

Yes, and we all saw what a successful strategy that was with the River Oaks Shopping Center.

LOL yep but these hoods do have money behind them.

[KinkaidAlum]

LOL yep but these hoods do have money behind them.

And the houses on Inwood, Brentwood, Del Monte, etc... don't?

Not to mention that $1 million houses have been built on streets like Hazard, McDuffie, Elmen, and others over the past 5 years.

[musicman]

And the houses on Inwood, Brentwood, Del Monte, etc... don't?

Not to mention that $1 million houses have been built on streets like Hazard, McDuffie, Elmen, and others over the past 5 years.

true there's money...but i'd say northhampton will be more organized in their efforts. i wouldn't consider the immediate area south of RO shopping center in the same league.

[Guest danax]

"The project design has been chosen so that all building residential units will be above the tree line, ensuring the greatest level of privacy for the surrounding neighborhood and the maximum view of Houston

[talltexan83]

The River Oaks shopping center is a different animal. They are replacing one commercial shopping center (albeit a historically significant one) with another commerical center. Over time, I would expect a Barnes & Noble to do more business with the River Oaks clientele than a Black Eyed Pea ever did. It was a frustrating loss for those trying to maintain Houston's architectural heritage (myself included), but replacing a 1 story structure with a 2 story one was never the issue.

I hope to hear more following their neighborhood meeting this evening, but I expect to see quite a fight from the local residents. Building a high rise this close to deed-restricted neighborhoods would be unprecendented inside the loop (I can only think of a few along Westheimer, San Felipe and Kirby - but they are not completely surrounded by dense single family homes) . I really encourage you to drive by and understand how out of place it would seem.

Edited September 20, 2007 by talltexan83

[Native Montrosian]

The target market is current residents of the area who would prefer to move from their single-family homes with yards to a secure, maintenance-free environment of similar quality to their current home.

So the general opinion is that the housing slump in Houston will remain confined to homes under $200K? Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but is the developer wagering that the target market will have no trouble selling their current houses by the time this is completed? I have no idea what the turn-around time on a housing market slump is - I wasn't of the mind to pay much attention when all the condos went vacant in the 80's and foreclosures were on every street. Of course, it's not like the facility will be an exclusive club open only to current area residents.

The older inner-loop apartments are vanishing quickly. I'm truly surprised that the neat 1930's apartments at 1537 Castle Court haven't been plowed over for townhouses.

[musicman]

So the general opinion is that the housing slump in Houston will remain confined to homes under $200K? Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but is the developer wagering that the target market will have no trouble selling their current houses by the time this is completed?

there's an article in today's chron about home sales here...this sentence may interest you.

One bright spot is the luxury home market. Homes that sold for more than $500,000 saw a 26 percent increase in sales.

[ricco67]

So the general opinion is that the housing slump in Houston will remain confined to homes under $200K? Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but is the developer wagering that the target market will have no trouble selling their current houses by the time this is completed? I have no idea what the turn-around time on a housing market slump is - I wasn't of the mind to pay much attention when all the condos went vacant in the 80's and foreclosures were on every street. Of course, it's not like the facility will be an exclusive club open only to current area residents.

Believe me, after a certain level on the economic food chain, they have a totally different view on money and their needs. They're definition of "short of cash" would make any working stiff vomit. with gusto.

[skooljunkie]

I support all tall buildings that have potential to bring out NIMBYs. I just love watching hypocrites in action.

Haha...planning & development entertainment at its best. Bust out the popcorn!

[Subdude]

The project design has been chosen so that all building residential units will be above the tree line, ensuring the greatest level of privacy for the surrounding neighborhood and the maximum view of Houston

[musicman]

The residents of Southampton may have tons of money, but they don't have the law on their side.

[Jax]

At leas they're not building a giant self storage warehouse in Southampton!

Maybe if they did, more people would think about zoning.

[Native Montrosian]

One bright spot is the luxury home market. Homes that sold for more than $500,000 saw a 26 percent increase in sales.

Well, there's my job security. Our agency doesn't touch a home with a replacement cost of less than $500,000. Keep buying, folks!

Believe me, after a certain level on the economic food chain, they have a totally different view on money and their needs. They're definition of "short of cash" would make any working stiff vomit. with gusto.

Tell me about it. One of my clients has 2 Ferraris, a Lamborghini Gallardo and an Aston-Martin and doesn't bother with physical damage coverage for any of them.

[talltexan83]

I stopped by the neighborhood meeting last night at Poe Elementary. It was an impressive turn out. Standing room only.......I would guess close to 500 people. It turns out the developer is a resident of West U who grew up in the area.

The group seemed intent on organizing and taking legal action. And the civic association has already started raising funds for a legal team.

[woolie]

I wish the developers all the luck. I think protecting property values is BS, at least when the structure is a high-quality, high-dollar building like this. But here's a hint for all the people who would like to live in 1950 forever: cities change, neighborhoods change, you don't have a deed on the character of a neighborhood.

[Jax]

Are the people who are complaining about the proposed tower also against zoning? Or do these people think it's time for zoning in Houston? Just curious...

[nate]

The group seemed intent on organizing and taking legal action. And the civic association has already started raising funds for a legal team.

What would be their cause of action?

I agree this is better suited for Main Street. They could plop this on the Greyhound station site and nobody in Midtown would complain about it being 28 stories. Or it could be around the other high-rise buildings between Montrose and the Museum district.

Probably no complaints if it were on Main, but I would rather live in Southampton, as would most people.

Edited September 21, 2007 by nate

[GovernorAggie]

If the developer owns the property, let him build what he wants, right?!! Houston at its finest!

Edited September 21, 2007 by GovernorAggie

[jfre81]

But here's a hint for all the people who would like to live in 1950 forever: cities change, neighborhoods change, you don't have a deed on the character of a neighborhood.

I can agree to this to a point, but tearing down old houses for McMansions when there's plenty of room in the burbs for that crap...oh anyway, I was gonna go into a big rant but...

Are the people who are complaining about the proposed tower also against zoning? Or do these people think it's time for zoning in Houston? Just curious...

They probably think so, but they probably came from somewhere else so they think so just because what they see *isn't like home.* The lack of zoning bothers me none at all.

[talltexan83]

Property values were not at the center of the discussion last night. These neighborhoods are already a gold mine, and the decreasing number of single family homes inside the loop will only increase their value. A high rise is not going to change that.

Many of the speakers came from backgrounds in urban planning and design and spoke to quality-of-life concerns that this development would bring. A 23 story building is in direct contrast to its surroundings. Why not push for a development that will embrace its environment?

Edited September 21, 2007 by talltexan83

[Jax]

The lack of zoning doesn't bother anybody, until somebody wants to build a huge tower or a self storage warehouse in the middle of an affluent residential neighborhood. Then it seems to bother a lot of people.

Edited September 21, 2007 by Jax

[ricco67]

<br />The lack of zoning doesn't bother anybody, until somebody wants to build a huge tower or a self storage warehouse in the middle of an affluent residential neighborhood. Then it seems to bother a lot of people.<br />

like what??

make it look like a giant tree with a bunch of treehouses on it?

nothing is going to placate these guys.

[jfre81]

The lack of zoning doesn't bother anybody, until somebody wants to build a huge tower or a self storage warehouse in the middle of an affluent residential neighborhood. Then it seems to bother a lot of people.

Especially these days it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to put a self-storage warehouse on that land anymore. Now that the concept of *being close-in* is becoming cool they will command a lot more $$$ for places for *close-in* people to live and work. I can understand the traffic concerns, but then again if they would expand transit then you can build densely without necessarily having to expand road capacity. You know it's become a problem when people don't want major development just because a bunch of people are going to have to drive through there and park.

This reeks of Afton Oaks and the rail...if not for then they would already be putting it down by now...

[Subdude]

The lack of zoning doesn't bother anybody, until somebody wants to build a huge tower or a self storage warehouse in the middle of an affluent residential neighborhood. Then it seems to bother a lot of people.

Well I think a lot of people don't want zoning in general, except when it comes to their own neighborhood. Views change when your own property value or neighborhood quality seem threatened.

[ricco67]

After driving through the area several times during the day yesterday, I honestly think it would be a mistake for this building come to pass. Reason being is that the road would require an extensive upgrade JUST for the construction itself.

What made me come to the realization was driving by the Park one place earlier in the day. There was a procession of dump trucks and cement trucks to push up a new floor.

The thought of all those trucks going through, mixing in with regular traffic would definitely be a nightmare for both those that use the road and the construction people.

While the complete project would probably a plus (although the residents wouldn't see it that way), the increased traffic alone would make it problematic.

[woolie]

At one point in the past, people bragged about Houston having condo towers in the middle of (rich, white) single-family neighborhoods. This isn't terribly different from the towers in River Oaks. I think people are underestimating the traffic that Bissonet carries already... it's probably not going to be a major issue. There is already significant commercial development in the area, it's not quite as pastoral as people are claiming.

Zoning is a terrible beast that must be slain every time it emerges from its lair...

[Subdude]

At one point in the past, people bragged about Houston having condo towers in the middle of (rich, white) single-family neighborhoods. This isn't terribly different from the towers in River Oaks. I think people are underestimating the traffic that Bissonet carries already... it's probably not going to be a major issue. There is already significant commercial development in the area, it's not quite as pastoral as people are claiming.

Zoning is a terrible beast that must be slain every time it emerges from its lair...

I'm not sure that was the case, but if it was, the people doing the bragging probably weren't the one with highrises in their backyards. The idea isn't that the neighborhood is "pastoral," it is that the proposal is out of proportion with the existing residences. They like the scale of the neighborhood as it is. I love highrises, but I don't see any particular advantage to scattering them into low-rise residential neighborhoods.