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The Langley: Residential High-Rise At 1717 Bissonnet St.


musicman

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This isn't terribly different from the towers in River Oaks. I think people are underestimating the traffic that Bissonet carries already... it's probably not going to be a major issue. There is already significant commercial development in the area, it's not quite as pastoral as people are claiming.

The commercial development on this stretch of Bissonnet is hardly significant. Most of it is mom-and-pop businesses in existing structures -- formerly single-family homes. An antique store, photo studio, a caterer, etc. These businesses don't get a lot of traffic. The only businesses that get a lot of traffic in the area are the restaurants Picnic and Raven Grill in the old Butera's grocery location near Hazard. And that's usually only during lunch hour Monday-Friday -- AND it causes jams on Bissonet because the street is too narrow to handle it. Just turning left off this stretch of Bissonnet can cause jams during rush hour because it's hard to pass on the right if the car turning left is a truck or SUV.

West of Greenbriar, Bissonnet is a different story -- with significant commercial development. But from Greenbriar to Montrose, it's mainly residential. A huge tower would, IMO, put too much stress on the area.

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I fear for the developers. They apparently paid significanly above market for the real estate, that no other building options were feasible. They're portraying this project as a slam dunk, however I would not want to go up against these politically connected neighborhoods with significant resources. This could drag out a very, :o very long time.

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It is just my impression that many high rise owners would prefer to be closer to more commerical establishments or green space. The project downtown next to the new park and all of the activity in Uptown would seem to suggest that.

Anyone know how much they paid for the land? More or less than property in the musuem district or near Hermann Park?

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I fear for the developers. They apparently paid significanly above market for the real estate, that no other building options were feasible. They're portraying this project as a slam dunk, however I would not want to go up against these politically connected neighborhoods with significant resources. This could drag out a very, :o very long time.

It was a mistake on their part to buy this land before determining what the local reaction would/could be. You wouldn't catch me spending that kind of money without a lot more due diligence.

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I read that the developers are planning that their market will be older residents of Southampton and Boulevard Oaks, who are tired of the upkeep on their properties. Jimmy Lyons who developed the Huntingdon also thought the River Oaks gentry would also flock. Wrong, they were angry too. It took a generation for them to warm up to the idea or was it that they were able to buy for sub50 cents on the dollar. The Huntingdon bankrupted Jimmy Lyons. The Federal Goverment was Bob Lanier's landlord for several years. :huh:

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from CitizensNet:

Dear Houstonians:

I believe that the proposed development of a 23-story mixed use development with over 450 parking spaces, on the site of the Maryland Manor apartments, will impair mobility on Bissonnet, a two-lane street.

As it becomes more desirable to live in Houston, more people move here. We would like consumers to have many choices to live within the City limits. Ultimately we want people also to be able to live closer to where they work, reducing costs of traffic congestion and enormous infrastructure costs by long commutes.

Houston's City Charter prevents the City from dictating references to landowners concerning the residential or commercial use. I believe the City of Houston does have the power to limit or to impose reasonable requirements concerning on-site parking, flood impacts, the amount of traffic or trips and the reasonableness of places for ingress and egress on a particular property.

As Houston has grown and vacant land has become scarce and many Houstonians want to live in areas close to their work and shopping, we have attracted many more applications for high-rise projects than at any time in the past.

In each case we have required that developers do an analysis of the traffic impact of their development. Obviously much new development and more employment creates more traffic, but we need to consider impacts on on-street parking that may disrupt neighborhoods and discourage cut-through traffic or attempted left turns across two-way streets or curb cuts for entrances or exits too close to congested intersections.

Within the last two weeks a Council Committee held a hearing on ordinances which would require a traffic impact analysis and approval of the access and ingress plan for certain types of development. We must make rules that are clear and predictable and capable of being applied on a non-discriminatory basis. Both I and our Public Works Department have repeatedly told developers that development plans should reasonably address traffic impacts.

There should be reasonable criteria based on the number of automobiles capable of entering or exiting a property onto a street in a residential neighborhood. Those criteria should take into account the size and lane configuration of the street, proximity to traffic signals, location of the curb cuts, turns across lanes, etc. The criteria should not unreasonably impair the ability to satisfy consumer needs to live closer to employment centers or the rights of landowners to convert one multifamily use to another.

In the meantime, I will be prepared to use any appropriate power under law to alter the proposed project as currently planned.

BILL WHITE

MAYOR

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the property was never platted or deed restricted, although everything in the surrounding neighborhood is (height limit of deed restricted buildings is 3 stories). the developers have already paid COH $500K for infrastructure (sewer) capacity improvements. this was done in July and handled by Public Works bureaucrats, completely outside the elected official structure. thus no elected official, including Distict C Clutterbuck, herself a Southampton resident, can tell the builders what to build. they could build a steel mill if they want to.

but civilized societies operate best under just notions of equity. the reason Southampton property has such high value is due in large part to generations of homeowners maintaining the subdivision - both its physical environment and its character. other similar neighborhoods north, south, and east of the area are less valuable b/c they were less successful in warding off various threats to neighborhood integrity over time. there is no doubt a 23 story bldg will drop property values in the surrounding blocks, create long-term environmental impacts currently absent in the area (light, shade, noise, etc), and permanently alter the character of the neighborhood.

so in a sense the developers are profiting from something their proposed development will damage. that's the classic definition of quick-profit, damn-the-long-term-consequences exploitation, Houston-style development.

and that's something most of the posters on HAIF seem to oppose. so why do so many posters on this thread support this?

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The only reason I support it is the fact that if it had retail and restaurants, it would give me more places where I could walk to from my apartment. That being said, I wouldn't mind if they built it on an empty lot closer to Main, or in Midtown or the Museum District instead. I guess that might not work if the whole point is to appeal Southampton residents though.

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the traffic study "process" was supposedly the baby of councilmember lovell. we'll see how that works out.

it's all about issuing a permits which brings in money. public works doesn't do any checks . they still even issue permits in violation of deed restrictions. i know in my parents neighborhood, a neighbor called the civic club pres to report a side setback violation. the builder got mad at the civic club even though the city was incorrect in issuing the permit.

a structure such as this in the neighborhood centric area should at least be flagged by public works at the minimum. i'm sure the COH saw the 500k for infrastructure improvements and stamped the project GO!

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The only reason I support it is the fact that if it had retail and restaurants, it would give me more places where I could walk to from my apartment. That being said, I wouldn't mind if they built it on an empty lot closer to Main, or in Midtown or the Museum District instead. I guess that might not work if the whole point is to appeal Southampton residents though.

i guess negatively affecting the area isn't a problem as long as you have more places to go.

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I guess not. It doesn't really negatively effect the area for me.

I'm not one of the homeowners in the area though. From my standpoint, the more places I can walk to from where I live, the better. I used to live in Southampton (in a really bad garage apartment), and I think the neighborhood is wonderful. I love walking around looking at the multi mullion dollar homes I will most likely never be able to afford, but the one thing the neighborhood lacked was a lot of places I could walk to to eat or shop (I could walk to the village in 45 minutes but that's not very practical most of the time).

By my previous comment, I wasn't saying I absolutely support the project, I just wanted to point out that the mixed use thing for me is a big plus. That's the reason I said it sounded good when I heard about it - because the property value thing isn't an issue for me like walkability is. Of course not everybody is going to have that viewpoint.

Edited by Jax
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Didn't Bill White Houston to live in the area? I think he might live in the Memorial area now but I could have sworn he used to live in/near Southampton. Also, Clutterbuck lives on Sunset Blvd. between Greenbriar and Shepherd.

And Lovell lives off of Woodhead between Alabama and Richmond -- only a mile or two from 1717 Bissonnet.

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Bill White now opposed to the residential high-rise and is going to try and help stop the construction. Here is the Chronicle article...

http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5168148.html

It sure seems like the mayor would love to see zoning. This is exactly what it is.

his statement In the meantime, I will be prepared to use any appropriate power under law to alter the proposed project as currently planned. sure leaves room for construction to continue.

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24h Traffic count on Bissonet here was 17k+ in 2001.

250 units are going to cause the Apocalypse?

Wah wah wah... cry me a river. Protection of privilege...

I was thinking about Cluterbuck living in this neighborhood last night. I know her husband is intimately involved in the Civic club and the effort to save the deed restrictions in the neighborhood. This seems to me to be a complete conflict of interest. She is attempting to get the city involved in a fight that benefits her and her family directly. I know she is supposed to represent the area, but with such a vested interest in what is going on here, she should be very wary of using her public office to try and curtail the development. I know, I know, this sort of self-interested politicing goes on all the time. Still seems dirty to me.

BTW, if the truly wants to stop them and succeeds, are they going to be willing to return the 500k investment the developers already put into the project?

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Just drive westbound down Bissonnet around 5:30 on a week day. You will be crying by the time you reach Kirby Drive......

Good to hear that the Mayor is getting involved. It should make for an interesting battle.

side question: Would the economics really not work for building an upper class 4 -5 story mixed use development on this site (similar to Sonoma)? Wouldn't a project like that be even more marketable to potential buyers?

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side question: Would the economics really not work for building an upper class 4 -5 story mixed use development on this site (similar to Sonoma)? Wouldn't a project like that be even more marketable to potential buyers?

i think it's the phrase mixed use that makes the project less feasible. if there are a fixed number of cars that will be there then by design parking could be accomodated. when you start bringing in businesses, it is hard to predict numbers. these developer is definitely looking a higher return with more units which is probably why they were willing to put in 500k for infrastructure.

Edited by musicman
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24h Traffic count on Bissonet here was 17k+ in 2001.

250 units are going to cause the Apocalypse?

Wah wah wah... cry me a river. Protection of privilege...

It won't cause the Apocalypse, but it will make the traffic situation much worse, which will bring down property values in one of the most beautiful areas of Houston. When you own a house, and you've worked years to pay the mortgage and you're looking forward to the day you sell it so you can reap the rewards of your years of hard work, you'll understand.

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Isn't the Hillel Center at 1700 Bissonnet considered to have "church Status", could this possibly be problematic for them to serve alcohol in the building?

yes, the Hillel Center has religious/exempt status, but i don't know if the TABC 300-foot rule applies - and i think it is for the sale of alcohol, not consumption -

or if 1717 Bissonnet would be 300 feet from 1700 Bissonnet

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The Hillel Center being almost directly across the street from the NE corner of the proposed highrise is certainly within 300'. The highrise was planning to include restaurant and a small convenience type market. Their inability to sell alcohol could be a problem to lease restaurant space.

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It won't cause the Apocalypse, but it will make the traffic situation much worse, which will bring down property values in one of the most beautiful areas of Houston. When you own a house, and you've worked years to pay the mortgage and you're looking forward to the day you sell it so you can reap the rewards of your years of hard work, you'll understand.

Except that you purchased a house in the city of Houston where the people insist they do not want zoning. Well, here is the price. It is hard to feel bad for these people.

Also, all the people purchasing homes in Southhampton were the runup in prices has been out of control, have purchased with the knowledge that the deed restrictions will run out in, I believe, 13 years.

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