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Houston Pavilions Vs. Dallas' Park Lane Place

dallasrookie

Which Project Will Be More Successful  

43 members have voted

  1. 1. Which will be sucessful in 5 years

    • Dallas's Park Lane Place
      11
    • Houston Pavilions
      20
    • Both -- Texas is the Best Place on Earth
      12

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dallasrookie

dallasrookie

Posted
Posted

A fair comparison will be. Dallas Park Lane Place Vs Houston Pavilions

Which Development will be successful in 5 years, 10 years?

Park Lane Place: http://www.parklanedallas.com/index.cfm?Fu...;PageID=1000048

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/9906/0126parklane1ge9.th.jpg

DALLAS-A trio of seasoned Dallas developers, flying a relatively new banner, is laying the foundation for a 700,000-sf, mixed-use project with a $100-million-plus price tag as a neighbor to NorthPark Mall. The first news to come from the camp is the hiring of a retail team to promote Park Lane Place.

The project got its start in June with the acquisition of NorthPark East, a trio of office buildings on 15.5 acres adjacent to a DART light-rail station at the junction of Park Lane and North Central. Developer Harvest Partners then slid in T.D. Briggs of Peloton Real Estate Partners in Dallas for office leasing and management. The residential and retail components will go up on a nearby tract, now under negotiation and off limits for details until the deal's done. Real estate sources are pegging the project at $100 million or more.

Harvest Partners picked a "pair of hybrids instead of standard brokerage houses" by hiring Madison Marquette of Washington, DC and Harberg-Masinter Co. of Dallas for pre-development leasing for the retail, Bob Baker, Madison Marquette's SVP and director of leasing for the West Coast, tells GlobeSt.com.

....

Besides the 252,000 sf of existing office, the Park Lane Place plan is being primed for upward of 400,000 sf of retail and 300 to 450 residential units that are on the drawing board as "for lease" product, but easily could swing to "for sale" condos, according to Baker. The plan for now is to deliver the project in two stages: spring and fall 2005. The retail contract is in place "basically to take it through the opening of the project," Baker says.

VS

Houston Pavilions: http://www.houstonpavilions.com/home.php

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/2571/houstonpavilionstv0.th.jpg

Four city blocks are being transformed into downtown Houston's premiere entertainment, retail and urban office hub. Bounded by Dallas to the north; Polk to the south; Main to the west; and Caroline to the east, Houston Pavilions is a $170 million project encompassing almost 700,000 square feet. Houston Pavilions will include 360,000 square feet of retail space that will occupy the first two levels of the development, with entertainment venues located on the third floor. A central courtyard and people-friendly streetscapes will allow for alfresco dining and window-shopping. The entire second floor of the development will be connected by walkways spanning Fannin St. and San Jacinto St.

Approximately 200,000 square feet of loft office space will be available on the mid-block between Fannin and San Jacinto Streets. Office parking will be provided in the Houston Pavilions garage located on the corner of Main and Polk.Four city blocks are being transformed into downtown Houston's premiere entertainment, retail and urban office hub. Bounded by Dallas to the north; Polk to the south; Main to the west; and Caroline to the east, Houston Pavilions is a $170 million project encompassing almost 700,000 square feet. Houston Pavilions will include 360,000 square feet of retail space that will occupy the first two levels of the development, with entertainment venues located on the third floor.

A central courtyard and people-friendly streetscapes will allow for alfresco dining and window-shopping. The entire second floor of the development will be connected by walkways spanning Fannin St. and San Jacinto St.

Approximately 200,000 square feet of loft office space will be available on the mid-block between Fannin and San Jacinto Streets. Office parking will be provided in the Houston Pavilions garage located on the corner of Main and Polk.

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you already know which one i think will be more successful.

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Subdude

Subdude

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Posted

You'll notice that the banner warning at the top of the page says that city-vs-city flame wars are not permitted on HAIF. The fact that you are trying to start a "contest" between two unrelated malls in two cities indicates that is exactly what you are trying to start, especially with a first post. This board isn't here to host Dallas versus Houston comparisons, as has been pointed out about a thousand times. Any post that violates HAIF rules will be deleted.

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dallasrookie

dallasrookie

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You'll notice that the banner warning at the top of the page says that city-vs-city flame wars are not permitted on HAIF. The fact that you are trying to start a "contest" between two unrelated malls in two cities indicates that is exactly what you are trying to start, especially with a first post. This board isn't here to host Dallas versus Houston comparisons, as has been pointed out about a thousand times. Any post that violates HAIF rules will be deleted.

After reading my first post i said nothing how Dallas is Better then Houston, the post is about comparing two project.

for example if Houston Has a Park Lane Place also Houston Pavilions i would have wanted to see which one will attract more customer, money, excitement.

The two project cover about the same area, cost the same amount, and serve a similar service. So i was wondering which will be successful in 5 years and which one will be a glorified strip mall

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slfunk

slfunk

Posted
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They both will be successful in 5 years. You are looking at two projects, that according to one poster are similar in price and scale. Although the Park Lane Station is stated as being 70 million less.

Houston Pavilions will build on downtown Houston becoming an ever more destination center for retail etc. Park Lane Station is being built across the free way from the most successful retail core in Dallas. Can't really go wrong with either one.

Park Lane Station is connected to the Dart Rail at a station that is already heavily used, it will have retail, residential, hotel, and office.

Houston Pavilions (not sure of the whole scope) but will provide retail not only for the downtown hotels and office, but also the residential population that is continuing to grow.

Houston Pavilions will be more accessible to pedestrians as well as auto.

Park Lane Station will still be a destination point for people using cars, transit, and some new pedestrian traffic (but not much b/c this is not in the urban core of downtown). This will be a non issue b/c people already have to use their cars to get to all the retail at North Park and surrounding area.

So they are similar type concepts, with a little different demographic and scope. Neither one will become a glorified strip mall.

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Trae

Trae

Posted
Posted

^^ Well actually, that reminds me of BLVD Place more than anything.

They both will be successful in 5 years. You are looking at two projects, that according to one poster are similar in price and scale. Although the Park Lane Station is stated as being 70 million less.

Houston Pavilions will build on downtown Houston becoming an ever more destination center for retail etc. Park Lane Station is being built across the free way from the most successful retail core in Dallas. Can't really go wrong with either one.

Park Lane Station is connected to the Dart Rail at a station that is already heavily used, it will have retail, residential, hotel, and office.

Houston Pavilions (not sure of the whole scope) but will provide retail not only for the downtown hotels and office, but also the residential population that is continuing to grow.

Houston Pavilions will be more accessible to pedestrians as well as auto.

Park Lane Station will still be a destination point for people using cars, transit, and some new pedestrian traffic (but not much b/c this is not in the urban core of downtown). This will be a non issue b/c people already have to use their cars to get to all the retail at North Park and surrounding area.

So they are similar type concepts, with a little different demographic and scope. Neither one will become a glorified strip mall.

I believe there is a METRO station not too far from the Houston Pavilions. HP is on Main Street (what the Red Line runs on).

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Dallascaper

Dallascaper

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I think everyone hopes HP is very successful; not only would this be a big win for Houston, but it would bode well for similar developments taking root in Dallas.

But I am reminded of: Location, location, location.

But from a practical standpoint, and to answer the point of this thread, I think Park Lane Place is going to be more successful simply because it has the better location. HP is downtown Houston, an unproven (and possibly, downright bad) location for this type of development. PLP is being built on Dallas

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dalparadise

dalparadise

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Posted
But I am reminded of: Location, location, location.

But from a practical standpoint, and to answer the point of this thread, I think Park Lane Place is going to be more successful simply because it has the better location. HP is downtown Houston, an unproven (and possibly, downright bad) location for this type of development. PLP is being built on Dallas

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Trae

Trae

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This is why people are saying it compares more easily with the Westcreek development. Westcreek is on Houston's main street -- Westheimer in River Oaks, has The Galleria across the Freeway and is near Highland Village and has high income houses as far as the eye can see -- and higher average income than the section of Dallas you mention, if demographic studies can be believed. it's a retailer's wet dream.

But it's also completely different from HP.

Yep, you have it right.

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HtownWxBoy

HtownWxBoy

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Posted

I for one am so glad HP is being built in Downtown Houston. Both Downtown Houston and Dallas are "unproven"... but happening in Downtown Houston along with HP are Discovery Green, our new Downtown Park that includes restaurants, entertainment facilities, etc... One Park Place, a new residential high rise under construction next to Discovery Green and like one block from HP... new retail already opening up and planning on opening up on Main Street near HP....... also included in Houston Pavilions will not only be restaurants and lots of retail but also Lucky Strike, a popular, trendy bowling alley... and House of Blues... which Dallas has, just not Downtown.

I am from the Northeast where the big cities have busy and densely populated Downtowns with lots of entertainment complexes, restaurants, residential complexes, office towers, retail, etc etc.... that's what I would like to eventually see here in Texas... and I think Houston with the help of Houston Pavilions and everything else in development in Downtown Houston is well ahead of Dallas... just my opinion. B)

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HtownWxBoy

HtownWxBoy

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Posted
I think everyone hopes HP is very successful; not only would this be a big win for Houston, but it would bode well for similar developments taking root in Dallas.

But I am reminded of: Location, location, location.

But from a practical standpoint, and to answer the point of this thread, I think Park Lane Place is going to be more successful simply because it has the better location. HP is downtown Houston, an unproven (and possibly, downright bad) location for this type of development. PLP is being built on Dallas

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Dallascaper

Dallascaper

Posted
Posted
Even though Houston's Downtown may be more "unproven" than Park Lane Place... I am glad developers are taking a chance on it... b/c even though HP is still being built, new things are already popping up and being planned around it in the middle of Downtown Houston... it's the snowball effect... and it's just getting started!!! >:) Lost of developments are in the planning stages around Houston in more "proven" places, but Houston Pavilions is so much more exciting b/c it's in the middle of Downtown amid our towering skyscrapers!

I agree; it is exciting and hopeful that developers are willing to invest serious money downtown.

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dallasrookie

dallasrookie

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Even though Houston's Downtown may be more "unproven" than Park Lane Place... I am glad developers are taking a chance on it... b/c even though HP is still being built, new things are already popping up and being planned around it in the middle of Downtown Houston... it's the snowball effect... and it's just getting started!!! >:) Lost of developments are in the planning stages around Houston in more "proven" places, but Houston Pavilions is so much more exciting b/c it's in the middle of Downtown amid our towering skyscrapers!

I was at the Denver Pavilion couple of weeks ago, nice concept i think what will make Houston Pavilion successful is have retail anchoring the project, like Denver's Project ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16th_Street_Mall ) being the 4th largest city in the US Helps allot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_cities_in_the_US ).

I think that Dallas Park Lane Place will be successful, simply the amount of money and people located in the Dallas:

Dallas has the top three richest counties in the state ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_locations_by_per_capita_income)

Dallas has, the fourth largest metropolitan are in U.S. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_metropolitan_area)

Dallas has the 25th richest metropolitan area in the US (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_areas_of_the_United_States_by_income)

So right now i think its a wash

I hear people talking about Atlanta, NYC, and Chicago how great a city they are. ( In those states what other big name city are located there, (okay i wait *jeopardy theme*, my point exactly)). You can not say the same for Texas (Austin, Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio *3 of the Top Ten largest Cities in the US* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_cities_in_the_US)

IMO Atlanta as a trend city , and a couple of years people will relocate to Texas. Nice to hear when visiting Atlanta/Other cities and when talking about Dallas and Houston people are interested in moving to Texas. But what i Hate is when they think of Texas, they ask me do I have any cattle or do i have a cowboy hat with boots :unsure:

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HtownWxBoy

HtownWxBoy

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I was at the Denver Pavilion couple of weeks ago, nice concept i think what will make Houston Pavilion successful is have retail anchoring the project, like Denver's Project ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16th_Street_Mall ) being the 4th largest city in the US Helps allot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_cities_in_the_US ).

Houston is working on doing just that... with Main Street. A trendy shoe store (sorry, forget the name) has already opened up on Main Street across from HP and American Apparel is going to open a store also on Main Street next to HP. Other stores have also announced plans to open Downtown locations on Main Street.

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Jax

Jax

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I would love it if you would see people walking around on Main street on a Saturday. If that was the case, I might actually consider living downtown some day.

I guess it's the chicken and the egg thing again. If more people were downtown, more people would want to live downtown, but there won't be people downtown until more people live downtown. :|

I met a bunch of international Medical /PhD students over the weekend and pretty much all of them said to me either "downtown is scary" or "downtown is creepy because I felt like I was the only person there last time I went downtown". I tried to take them downtown for drinks instead of the Rice Village but nobody was interested. Maybe next time....

I actually disagree with downtown being scary, because I like to ride the Metro to the Angelika on Mondays for a cheap date (discounted movie + free popcorn and drinks for students), and on Fridays sometimes Main street feels alive. It's just that if a person goes downtown at the wrong time (monday night or sunday afternoon) and is turned off, it will be hard to make them go again. I guess the more things that are going on downtown, the less people will be turned off, and the more likely they will be to return.

One of these days I'll convince my friends to come downtown with me on a Friday for a beer at the Flying Saucer...

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HtownWxBoy

HtownWxBoy

Posted
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I would love it if you would see people walking around on Main street on a Saturday. If that was the case, I might actually consider living downtown some day.

I guess it's the chicken and the egg thing again. If more people were downtown, more people would want to live downtown, but there won't be people downtown until more people live downtown. :|

I have always thought that people won't live downtown unless there are things to do and places to go... and businesses won't open downtown unless there are people living there... but I think that a "snowball" effect has already slowly begun... particularly with the construction of Houston Pavilions. A few years ago it was basically just workers Downtown with a few residents. The light rail is great, but didn't really give people a reason to live Downtown. Main Street has improved with restaurants and clubs/bars... now we have Houston Pavilions under construction which will have lots of restaurants, shopping, House of Blues, Lucky Strike... we have Bayou Place which has a movie theater and restaurants... Discovery Green is under construction... this will be unlike any park Downtown and it will also have restaurants... One Park Place is under construction (first residential high rise in decades to go up Downtown)... this will have street level retail including a small grocery store... retail stores have opened up or are planning on opening up on Main Street near Houston Pavilions... more hotels are planned for Downtown... this on top of such things as our amazing theater district... all of this will make more and more people want to move Downtown which will bring in more businesses and stuff... it's just the beginning!!! >:)

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HtownWxBoy

HtownWxBoy

Posted
Posted

Yes... really :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown_Dallas

HOB in Dallas is located right next to Downtown, in the Uptown / Victory Park area. Yes, it's right next to Downtown, it's just not "Downtown". HOB in Houston will be in the MIDDLE of Downtown Houston.

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