Grand Parkway Expansion

[Houston19514]

As this section of the Grand Parkway opens, keep in mind what we've been told.  Nobody will use it... nobody lives out there... nobody works out there... nobody will use it as an alternative to 290.  ;-)

[ig2ba]

As this section of the Grand Parkway opens, keep in mind what we've been told.  Nobody will use it... nobody lives out there... nobody works out there... nobody will use it as an alternative to 290.  ;-)

 

I'll probably drive it before 2013 ends and then less than once per year thereafter, but I'm not the average driver. I could see people using it more now than under TxDOT's projections since 290 is under construction and will be under construction for the next decade - this would especially be the case for the outlet mall visitors and those going from SW and West Houston to College Station.

 

Who really knows what the ridership will be... The more data the better. We shall see.

[HoustonMidtown]

I'll probably drive it before 2013 ends and then less than once per year thereafter, but I'm not the average driver. I could see people using it more now than under TxDOT's projections since 290 is under construction and will be under construction for the next decade - this would especially be the case for the outlet mall visitors and those going from SW and West Houston to College Station.

 

Who really knows what the ridership will be... The more data the better. We shall see.

 

This will probably be the fastest driver !!

 

[arche_757]

^Hopefully!  I've seen plenty of idiots driving like they think they are on a race track!!!

[HoustonMidtown]

^Hopefully!  I've seen plenty of idiots driving like they think they are on a race track!!!

 

LOL -- so true.....

[august948]

^Hopefully!  I've seen plenty of idiots driving like they think they are on a race track!!!

 

Hahaha...you must drive down Westheimer on Friday and Saturday nights.

 

[august948]

Interestingly, both this and the MetroRail extension open the same day.

[IronTiger]

I think that is a nifty coincidence, but it's not a competition, since they're two different projects run by two different government agencies serving two different parts of the area.

...that being said, I still don't see why Forbidden Gardens had to close for the Grand Parkway extension.

[ig2ba]

I think that is a nifty coincidence, but it's not a competition, since they're two different projects run by two different government agencies serving two different parts of the area.

...that being said, I still don't see why Forbidden Gardens had to close for the Grand Parkway extension.

 

It's not a competition in that the two agencies are literally competing. But in the minds of some in the public, it is a competition. Public sentiment leads to legislator (in)action which leads to funding, so it could eventually have effects. Way down the road. If the results are extremely different. Maybe. I think.

 

 

 

I don't think they did have to close. They closed and mentioned that Grand Parkway as a reason why. It's as good a reason as any - better than blaming Obama, Bush, etc.

[Triton]

I know it's apples to oranges, but I wonder which one will bring in the most money over the next 10 years.

[arche_757]

I know it's apples to oranges, but I wonder which one will bring in the most money over the next 10 years.

 

Don't know.  But I can guess that the Grand Parkway will be the first to undergo major renovation/expansion work (talking about the existing segments first).  Light Rail may add on, or replace a section of track here or there due to wear and tear, but the four traffic lanes on the GP will probably need to be widened in the next 5-10 years.  Mark my words.

[Houston19514]

Don't know.  But I can guess that the Grand Parkway will be the first to undergo major renovation/expansion work (talking about the existing segments first).  Light Rail may add on, or replace a section of track here or there due to wear and tear, but the four traffic lanes on the GP will probably need to be widened in the next 5-10 years.  Mark my words.

 

So you are predicting that the Grand Parkway will be more wildly successful than the rail lines?

[ig2ba]

Don't know.  But I can guess that the Grand Parkway will be the first to undergo major renovation/expansion work (talking about the existing segments first).  Light Rail may add on, or replace a section of track here or there due to wear and tear, but the four traffic lanes on the GP will probably need to be widened in the next 5-10 years.  Mark my words.

 

"need to be" widened and "will be widened" are two separate things. I very much doubt that any part of Segment E or Segment D (besides the current work to finish overpasses) will be widened in the next 10 years. Maybe an extra merge lane for a short distance, but nothing else.

 

TxDOT's budget is very strained. Tolls, even if sufficient along this section to support widening - very unlikely for a new-build exurban toll road - will be redirected to other toll projects. Segment E was deemed marginally viable by HCTRA in the first place.

 

Need? That's a different matter. I could envision morning backups on SB 99 to EB 10 and in the evening WB 10 to NB 99. Do you think there will be more congestion than this by 2023?

[arche_757]

So you are predicting that the Grand Parkway will be more wildly successful than the rail lines?

Nope.  Freeways tend to need major work every 10 years or so.  Never seen one (except perhaps Hardy) that's not had construction work on it ever 4-5 years (needed because of traffic or not).

 

"need to be" widened and "will be widened" are two separate things. I very much doubt that any part of Segment E or Segment D (besides the current work to finish overpasses) will be widened in the next 10 years. Maybe an extra merge lane for a short distance, but nothing else.

 

TxDOT's budget is very strained. Tolls, even if sufficient along this section to support widening - very unlikely for a new-build exurban toll road - will be redirected to other toll projects. Segment E was deemed marginally viable by HCTRA in the first place.

 

Need? That's a different matter. I could envision morning backups on SB 99 to EB 10 and in the evening WB 10 to NB 99. Do you think there will be more congestion than this by 2023?

"Will be widened"  because that's what we do.  Again, traffic backups at offramps are seldom the result of underbuilt freeways, but more the problem of poor light planning or road planning on the lower county/city level.

[IronTiger]

Will be widened? Yes, but not in the next 10 years. Remember, the original Katy Freeway didn't widen for decades. Northwest Freeway had its final segments built in the 1980s at the latest, Gulf Freeway remained a crummy pre-Interstate standard highway until the early 1980s, etc.

[august948]

I think that is a nifty coincidence, but it's not a competition, since they're two different projects run by two different government agencies serving two different parts of the area.

...that being said, I still don't see why Forbidden Gardens had to close for the Grand Parkway extension.

 

It's interesting because it will provide a comparison of sorts on the same timeline for a road project and a rail project with the attendant ridership numbers and so on.

 

[Houston19514]

Nope.  Freeways tend to need major work every 10 years or so.  Never seen one (except perhaps Hardy) that's not had construction work on it ever 4-5 years (needed because of traffic or not).

 

"Will be widened"  because that's what we do.  Again, traffic backups at offramps are seldom the result of underbuilt freeways, but more the problem of poor light planning or road planning on the lower county/city level.

 

You said the "four traffic lanes on the GP will probably need to be widened in the next 5-10 years.  Mark my words."

 

The only possible scenario for a need to widen the GP within 5-10 years is that it was wildly successful.

[arche_757]

Wildly successful for a freeway = zero traffic problems.  I see the GP being largely devoid of heavy traffic except at certain offramps here and there (I've yet to study a map of it, so I don't know exactly where these will be).  The need to expand lanes in a few places seems logical, that's what we did on the Sam Houston Tollway.  Not all of the Tollway is 6-8 lanes wide.

 

That's all I'm saying.  Moving on.

[IronTiger]

Grand Parkway's cursed, they built it over an ancient Indian burial ground.

[arche_757]

^Indeed.  Read this from Cite.

[Houston19514]

Wildly successful for a freeway = zero traffic problems.  I see the GP being largely devoid of heavy traffic except at certain offramps here and there (I've yet to study a map of it, so I don't know exactly where these will be).  The need to expand lanes in a few places seems logical, that's what we did on the Sam Houston Tollway.  Not all of the Tollway is 6-8 lanes wide.

 

That's all I'm saying.  Moving on.

 

Yes, and there is one reason the expansions on Sam Houston were necessary and there is one reason expansions of GP will be necessary, whether in just a few places or everywhere, ... more traffic than initially planned for. I guess you just don't want to acknowledge heavy traffic on a freeway as a "success".  ;-)

[august948]

If you are heading in the direction of Austin or College Station from the west side of town this could be a good option.  I suspect the route will see a lot of bypass traffic and quite a bit from further south in Sugarland, etc.

[luciaphile]

The only possible scenario for a need to widen the GP within 5-10 years is that it was wildly successful.

 

I can't speak to the perceived need for the Grand Parkway or its probable future expansion, but my impression as a non-flier who has driven all over the state: in most Texas counties, the "only impossible scenario" for widening a road is because it was needed, or "successful." TxDOT is a fairy godmother who confers importance on the local panjandrums.

[IronTiger]

I haven't been to Houston since August, but how far does Section E go? Obviously, it connects Katy to Cypress and adds main lanes to 290 (up from Kingsland Blvd., where afterward you would be forced to get on the frontage road or take the ramp to Interstate 10 East). If you were drive north on Grand Parkway, would you be forced to exit onto 290, or would you be able to go to Cumberland as shown in this map?

[nolaboy]

I drove this segment north bound early yesterday and you are forced to take the direct connector to 290 east or west. This is very similar to how 99 northbound used to force traffic to the I-10 east direct connector (except you don't get forced onto the feeder to go west). I believe all four direct connectors are open to access to/from segment E and both sides of 290.

Land has started to be cleared for the continuation north of 290.

I also finally drove I-45 in Spring/Woodlands and saw that the columns for the overpasses at Grand Pkwy have already been built. They are moving very fast in that area!

Edited December 22, 2013 by nolaboy

[IronTiger]

How far do the frontage roads go?

[nolaboy]

I dont believe they extend north of Franz and I dont think they are planned to be built on any of the new segments.

[IronTiger]

I know that the highway does not have full frontage roads all the way to 290, but the Section E map shows frontage roads just north of 290. No matter, I'll go to Houston sometime soon enough.

[Trae]

The feeders got extended just north of Franz to Morton, but that is it for feeders for segment e (hopefully). I thought the speed limit was suppose to be 70, but I read from two different sources that it is suppose to be 80. That sounds a little too high, but maybe 75?

[nolaboy]

It was 70 for the whole stretch when I drove it but articles I read said it was to be 80 as well.

Why do you say "hopefully" no additional feeders? Just curious.