Grand Parkway Expansion

[Pleak]

Well at least the aliens will know where to aim their photon torpedos when the invasion begins.

[LTAWACS]

Why would they build a highway when there is no one there?

[Hugh Stone]

Why would they build a highway when there is no one there?

...for the people who are going to BE there in 10 years.

...and for the people who want to go from the new Exxon Campus, Woodlands and Spring to Katy, Cinco Ranch and Sugarland without having to get on a super crowed Sammy/Beltway 8.

[Pleak]

$$$$$$

If you build it, they will come.

[Subdude]

Why would they build a highway when there is no one there?

To make it profitable for developers to build on the Katy prairie. Remember the Grand Parkway was planned long before Exxon announced its Woodland campus.

[TheNiche]

Why would they build a highway when there is no one there?

The timing actually had a lot to do with the decade of construction work that has only just begun on US 290. Beltway 8 to I-10 is already a preferred alternative just due to pre-construction congestion, but that detour is going to become much more heavily utilized in the next few years and they want an alternative to the alternative.

Edited May 17, 2012 by TheNiche

[totheskies]

The timing actually had a lot to do with the decade of construction work that has only just begun on US 290. Beltway 8 to I-10 is already a preferred alternative just due to pre-construction congestion, but that detour is going to become much more heavily utilized in the next few years and they want an alternative to the alternative.

Spot on... for once we agree!!

An alternative to the alternative's alternative. But the central question remains... when does this cycle of Sprawlmageddon stop?

[LTAWACS]

Spot on... for once we agree!!

An alternative to the alternative's alternative. But the central question remains... when does this cycle of Sprawlmageddon stop?

It wont.

[barracuda]

This expansion should help alleviate the serious lack of sprawl in the region.

[WestGrayGuy]

To be fair, Grand Parkway has been planned for over four decades. This is a planning map from the 70's.

Edited May 17, 2012 by WestGrayGuy

[TheNiche]

But the central question remains... when does this cycle of Sprawlmageddon stop?

LTAWACS is right. It won't stop. It'll only slow down when as it leap-frogs over Austin's sprawl into the hill country.

[lockmat]

To be fair, Grand Parkway has been planned for over four decades. This is a planning map from the 70's.

If they planned that far ahead for the grand parkway, I wonder if they have other plans outside it for the future?

[samagon]

If they planned that far ahead for the grand parkway, I wonder if they have other plans outside it for the future?

http://www.houstontx.gov/planning/DevelopRegs/mobility/MTFP.html

there's that, but basically, I am guessing by 2243 that Houston will be visible from space as a big target as the ring roads expand.

there's also this site which has a pretty good historical reference point for freeways, which I believe is where that map is hosted.

http://www.texasfreeway.com/houston/historic/freeway_planning_maps/houston_historic_maps.shtml

[TheNiche]

If they planned that far ahead for the grand parkway, I wonder if they have other plans outside it for the future?

There are.

I've seen documents and maps from Waller and Fort Bend counties that depict the "Prairie Parkway, a new freeway which would connect from Highway 6, north of Prairie View, over 290, and then south across Waller County, across I-10, across the Brazos River, skirting the west side of Rosenberg along Spur 10, and then taking an eastward jog toward where the Fort Bend Parkway would be extended across the Brazos River and past Segment C of the Grand Parkway.

EDIT: Oh, and the route was most recently revised and re-approved last month.

http://www.thewallertimes.com/pdf/04april/thewallertimes_04_25_12.pdf

Edited May 17, 2012 by TheNiche

[Houston19514]

It will stop when we stop adding 130-150,000 people to the metro area every year.

[Houston19514]

Why would they build a highway when there is no one there?

It is simply false to say there is no one there. Take a look at Google maps, people.

[Blade Runner]

It is simply false to say there is no one there. Take a look at Google maps, people.

Okay, here's a screenshot of Google Maps. You wanna know what I see? I see private property, being stolen by the county/state. I see farmland. I see green grass, fresh air, and peacefulness. I see no neighborhoods. I see no "people", except for the ones that are being bent over, and shown where the wild goose goes...

Edited May 18, 2012 by Blade Runner

[Subdude]

The working assumption seems to be that additional population can best and only be accomodated in sprawling surburban tract develpments. If that is the case then we certainly do need more freeways built through vacant prairie.

[WestGrayGuy]

Houston will stop growing outward when we run out of land, which is never. As long as people can buy a cheap house on a large piece of land with decent schools, sprawl continues.

Also, with the price of oil hovering around $100, Houston will be the place to be for a long time. People come to Houston for a chance to get ahead. Our cost of living is ridiculously cheap compared to other parts of the country.

[Houston19514]

Okay, here's a screenshot of Google Maps. You wanna know what I see? I see private property, being stolen by the county/state. I see farmland. I see green grass, fresh air, and peacefulness. I see no neighborhoods. I see no "people", except for the ones that are being bent over, and shown where the wild goose goes...

I guess one sees what one wants to see.. And no more. What is Fisher Estates? What is Katy Prairie Estates? What is Hidden Forest Estates? What is Griffin Estates? What is North Katy Terrace?

Further, take a look to the eastern side of the screen shot, where it shows areas almost completely developed. The area that will be served by the Grand Parkway is clearly in demand for development and the development has in fact already started.

[Pleak]

Here is a link to Waller County's new map of the proposed Prairie Parkway. Can' find Ft. Bend County's version yet - but would like to see the aligment as I live about a mile from where Spur 10 is being extended south of Highway 59. They are acquiring/clearing the land for the Spur 10 extension already - but as far as i know the immediate use is a Rosenberg bypass for Higway 36 - especially when there is a hurricane-a-coming. I had the hardest time going anywhere due to the Runaway Scrape from Brazoria County for Ike.

http://ww2.co.waller.tx.us/RoadandBridge/WallerCounty_MajorThoroughfares_2012.pdf

[Pleak]

I guess one sees what one wants to see.. And no more. What is Fisher Estates? What is Katy Prairie Estates? What is Hidden Forest Estates? What is Griffin Estates? What is North Katy Terrace?

Further, take a look to the eastern side of the screen shot, where it shows areas almost completely developed. The area that will be served by the Grand Parkway is clearly in demand for development and the development has in fact already started.

Obviously you have never been out in that area - it's immaculate and untouched. Like it was before Columbus came and ruined everything. Like it was even before the Native Americans who did no evil that came across the Alaskan land bridge to spread their joy upon the glorious land. Nothing but buffalo and whooping cranes as far as the eye can see. In fact I may have even seen a wooly mammoth or two while driving around out there!

Except - umm - there are no roads since it is a pristine wilderness- so i was offroading in a totally non-destructive environmentally-friendly way.

Yeah, that's it.

[Pleak]

LTAWACS is right. It won't stop. It'll only slow down when as it leap-frogs over Austin's sprawl into the hill country.

So will they try to close all their ancillary roads and keep Houston drivers confined to the main throroughfares like Bellaire does?

I'm personally looking forward to the day when I can move to Schulenberg and take either Metro to DT Houston or VIA to the Riverwalk in San Antonio.

[samagon]

Do they need more than 2 lane roads? Yep.

Do they need a freeway now? Nope.

Will they need a freeway in 20 years? Probably.

I'm all for building it now, cause it will cost less to build now than in 20 years when it will be needed.

[Houston19514]

The working assumption seems to be that additional population can best and only be accomodated in sprawling surburban tract develpments. If that is the case then we certainly do need more freeways built through vacant prairie.

The working assumption is that people will continue to choose to live in single family homes with significant lots, as they have been doing for 50+ years. The further working assumption (really more like a working fact) is that with a population growing by 130-150,000 per year, there is not enough land within highway 6/1960 to accommodate that growth over the next 20-50 years.

[urban909]

To throw something into the mix:

http://www.houstonto...kable-urbanism/

More specifically (in this survey), about the shift in where people want to live, etc., which is found in the last paragraph.

[Pleak]

But people say one thing when asked a survey and do another when their money is on the line....

[Houston19514]

To throw something into the mix:

http://www.houstonto...kable-urbanism/

More specifically (in this survey), about the shift in where people want to live, etc., which is found in the last paragraph.

Still 47% prefer single family homes with a big yard... And as Pleak mentioned, the survey respondents don't take into account the price difference. A lot of people prefer the "idea" of urban living in a smaller or attached home walkable to many things. But when they come to the Heights, etc.... they get sticker shock and driving everywhere looks pretty good.

But even if we assume that means only 47% will actually live in single family/big yard/drive everywhere situations, that means 60-115,000 NEW residents every year wanting such housing. Even assuming 4 residents per household (which I think is a bit high), that would be 15-29,000 ADDITIONAL single family/large lot residences every year.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Houston19514

[mfastx]

I find it interesting how, here in Houston, we pour billions of taxpayer dollars into building highways and no one bats an eye. However, when we try to build a ~$1 billion rail system, people cry "waste of taxpayer money, etc." The mentality is so different here than in most large cities.

[samagon]

The working assumption is that people will continue to choose to live in single family homes with significant lots, as they have been doing for 50+ years. The further working assumption (really more like a working fact) is that with a population growing by 130-150,000 per year, there is not enough land within highway 6/1960 to accommodate that growth over the next 20-50 years.

I don't get it.

Are you suggesting that every person moving to Houston over the next 20-50 years is going to want to move to points west/northwest of town?

That's a very narrow view of Houston, and not giving people who would move here enough credit. If you want to be absolutely and completely shocked, take a look at northeast Houston, over around lake Houston.