811 Main: Office Skyscraper At 811 Main St.

[sevfiv]

That's fine. But i am really curious if Spire would have sold if brought up.

[TheNiche]

That's fine. But i am really curious if Spire would have sold if brought up.

At a high enough price, the answer is always yes.

[Guest danax]

-Owners of landmarks must submit a COA to the city (the Houston Archaeological and Historic Commission) for any kind of exterior alteration. If it is denied, that is when the 90 day wait comes into play, i believe.

I checked and you're correct. We have City Landmarks and Protected Landmarks. City Landmarks can be nominated for designation by either the City of the owner, whereas a Protected Landmark can only be nominated by the owner. The owner of a City Landmark can proceed with inappropriate alterations if the COA is denied after the 90 day wait, but a Protected Landmark cannot proceed if the COA is denied, although there is an economic hardship provision.

[marc]

I'm right there with you, I was kinda' hoping they'd spare the montague, but the fact that that entire block wasn't put up to it's full potential made it an easy buy. It's just a pity they couldn't put it further up or down on main. Personally, I think it would do a bit better over by Bell street or on Praire, but whatever.

I think it is cool when developers incorporate older existing facades with newer concepts. This is a very common practice in London and Paris. They have done this in NY as well. Perhaps, preserving some of our DT Houston architectural treasures this way would happen. By the way Ricco67....... "Debauchary" as an interest? Interesting. >

[roadrunner]

I think the best part of this might just be the street level retail. If Hines is serious about getting the Shamrock site built up, too (say a condo tower), then we could have solid street life on Main from Franklin all the way to the Pavilions by 2012.

By then, hopefully the East End Corridor Line will be under construction (the part that runs through northeast downtown) and some development will start occurring in that area towards MMP.

Always hopeful...

[fernz]

The renderings that I have seen do not have any sort of ornamental top to the building on the Hines 47. It is 47 floors, thats it. And they have said it will have street level retail.

The renderings and model I saw did not have any kind of spire, it is a flat-roofed building. However, at about level 36 there is a big garden terrace that seems to take a 5 story bite out of the building, and at that point the massing of the building changes and becomes two interlocking volumes. Pretty neat looking building, at least compared to what has been built in Houston in the last ten years. Like I said, no Pennzoil, but I nice building nonetheless.

[GovernorAggie]

Thanks fernz! Any idea on how it may look at night? I'm just glad a new one is coming, regardless!

[pm91]

channel 11 news reported today that the houston conservation council is going to try to make hines design it the "old" houton way, since they cant save the montague. by the "old" way, do they just mean another brown or tan block that just rises into the sky like a giant brick???

[Trae]

You could probably do a good transition of lower brick at the bottom on into an all-glass tower to the top.

[ChannelTwoNews]

channel 11 news reported today that the houston conservation council is going to try to make hines design it the "old" houton way, since they cant save the montague. by the "old" way, do they just mean another brown or tan block that just rises into the sky like a giant brick???

Here's a link to the story (w/video).

[pm91]

well, with the brick at the bottom and then an all glass tower on the top... would that standout with the buildings around it or will it just be some other tall building in houston that didnt live up to the hype? the architect on the project has very futuristic desgins with the other buildings he has done. the one on top of my head is the never built AIM Corporate Headquarters that would have been in the galleria. im curious how he can make a postmodern building with a little bit of 1900's houston with it.. it could be a challenge dont you think?...

[Triton]

Thanks, ChannelTwoNews. Though, there was something odd that they said. Several highrises are planned throughout the city in undisclosed locations? I'm curious what they are...

[pm91]

well, six houston center, turnberrry tower are the only ones that i couldnt find an address. but they could also be talking about how there are so many buildings being proposed that they meant to say that they arent sure if they are going to be built or not... im just throwing an assumtion out there, just trying to help..

[TheNiche]

Several highrises are planned throughout the city in undisclosed locations? I'm curious what they are...

Either Van Ness wasn't willing to talk in order to avoid burning her sources, or the reporter didn't do their research. Within the HAIF threads are all of the precise locations of at least three (probably more) planned downtown towers.

[T 2 THA C]

I hate to see them demolish the Montague, but you can not fight progress. I think someone eslse said that it is not new to demolish something old to build a new tower in other cities like Chicago and NYC.

[pm91]

who the architect on this building?

[pm91]

nevermind, i found it, Pickard Chilton.

[strickn]

Demolition as part of updating is surely not new. Downtown, though, has not been well served by the "one building per block" model of development. It is worth exploring the reasons for this disservice and the range which do and do not apply to Hines' proposal, as it now stands and as it would if existing buildings were worked into the structure.

Edited July 27, 2007 by strickn

[editor]

Sometimes you just have to start fresh. Saving the facade doesn't always turn out right. Here's an example:

Even if they hadn't gone with the cheesy 80's blue color for the new building, it just doesn't look right slotted into the old facade like that.

[strickn]

There's one like that in Boston, too - Exchange Place. But the point is not to perform a 'facadectomy' but to conserve the existing entrances onto the street. I would like to see the structural load transferred down around the historic buildings (think Mid-Continent Tower, Tulsa - stunning) while using them as separate, boutique office-retail or other use. Blockbuster projects like to have a bombastic lobby frontage with expanses of glass and few, secure entrances; but everyone enters through the parking garage anyway. So a little bit of realism on that front, combined with the likelihood that lower floors won't earn the rent premiums that every floor higher up in the canyon can, would allow for a design that doesn't rip out the walls of the building and align floors with the bulk of the design, but instead allows them to brand a memorable second component of the project and manage to increase local traffic with it even as, in the skyscraper, they keep the 'few entrances' convention intact. Make sense?

Sometimes you just have to start fresh. Saving the facade doesn't always turn out right. Here's an example:

Even if they hadn't gone with the cheesy 80's blue color for the new building, it just doesn't look right slotted into the old facade like that.

Edited July 28, 2007 by strickn

[marc]

well, with the brick at the bottom and then an all glass tower on the top... would that standout with the buildings around it or will it just be some other tall building in houston that didnt live up to the hype? the architect on the project has very futuristic desgins with the other buildings he has done. the one on top of my head is the never built AIM Corporate Headquarters that would have been in the galleria. im curious how he can make a postmodern building with a little bit of 1900's houston with it.. it could be a challenge dont you think?...

It can be done, IF, it is done cautiously and carefully. By that, i mean don't sell out and make it look like a dozen other Houston skyscrapers. It is no secret that Houston has her own style. Just look at Sim City 4. One of the architectural choices is Houston 1990s. Which means......many of Houston's scrapers have a similar look to them with a few that stand out as unique.

Like all of us here, i pray to the architectural gods....now that Houston has a market for skyscrapers in DT and UT, that the developers take the opportunity to comission some really outstanding designs. i pray.

m.

PS- QUESTION- Many very popular architects (Calatrava, Rogers, Gehry, Meir, Piano, etc.) have their own unique style, but then seem to market their style where it becomes more of a type. (i don't know if my thought is coherent here) ANYWAY, my question is ....Is it safe to assume that when lesser known architects are hired we can look to their other projects to get a gist of what Houston could get OR are their projects different depending on the purpose of the building?? So, in other words, could i look up the chosen architects' portfolios and get a gist of what Houston could get OR are all bets off until we get official renderings? Does my question make sense?

[strickn]

...don't sell out and make it look like a dozen other Houston skyscrapers. It is no secret that Houston has her own style.

Many very popular architects (Calatrava, Rogers, Gehry, Meir, Piano, etc.) have their own unique style, but then seem to market their style where it becomes more of a type. ...Is it safe to assume that when lesser known architects are hired we can look to their other projects to get a gist of what Houston could get OR are their projects different depending on the purpose of the building?? So, in other words, could i look up the chosen architects' portfolios and get a gist of what Houston could get OR are all bets off until we get official renderings? Does my question make sense?

I will address both because I'm really still holding out hope for some involved discussion of my previous question. Yours is also worthwhile, but I can answer it, unlike my own. Pickard Chilton can very likely be depended upon to recycle, with modifications for site and client, previous designs on which they have put in the working hours but which they unfortunately have not gotten built. When a modern Houston-styled tower did not get built as Greenway Plaza's tallest (for AIM Funds), Pickard Chilton stripped two of its four curved sides off into sheer walls and made it Atlanta's newest sensation, 1180 Peachtree, a few years later. But that is not the primary reason that I make the claim.

The description of Hines 47 so far has been that it rises most of the way up and then, surprisingly, splits into two interlocking volumes. Well, I'm sorry to disappoint, but I thought that was a novel strategy too, when I saw it proposed for 30-then-40-storey Victory Tower in Dallas as a teenager. If you go to archive.org, the March 2001 version of dallasmetropolis.com still lists it as soon to be under the crane, with completion in 2003. Now that it wasn't built and a second architect designed the Victory Tower that will be built, you get one guess as to the architect of the original Victory Tower:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010309225519/.../undercrane.htm

http://web.archive.org/web/20020502093444/...alctm-uc063.JPG

I'm not going to embed the rendering, or one with the blue glass finished facade (although you can see it on other websites, including one that starts with an 'e'), because I'd rather the discussion not spark off in the direction of how great the tower is and how we'd better not let anybody in Dallas hear that we're getting their leftovers rather than a building that was designed for Houston with 'her own style' held in mind like we hold it.

Now, about the 'one building per block' tendency:

Edited July 30, 2007 by strickn

[Houston2010]

The Victory building you refer to with links doesn't appear to share one design element with the Hines 47. I can't think of a more different building than the one we've been shown.

[Mister X]

I sure wish the people who have seen the rendering had some basic drawing skills. Drawing rectangles isn't too hard. Just think how cool it would be to reveal the first rendering of this tower to the public (HAIFers), even if it's only a simple home made doodle. You would be a hero around here. Besides, it would give the person who did this an undisputed reputation of being one of the most reliable sources at this website. An instant STAR!

People are getting so anxious to see a rendering of this tower that they are starting to crack.

I'm so cracked I've desided to post my own rendering based on all the descriptions I've heard. Sort of like a police sketching of a crimal suspect.

Someone who has seen the real rendering please let me know if I came close:

Edited July 30, 2007 by Mister X

[Deut28Thirteen]

Have not read this topic in a while and still no rendering. X did you draw those? Nice drawings but I hope Hines does not look like that tower.

[WesternGulf]

Nice sketches Mister X.

[Mister X]

Thanx. I hope the real tower looks better than that too. And that someone who's seen the actual rendering can use my guesstimation renderings to give us a better idea of the real deal. The whole terrace thing 2/3rds the way up has me a bit baffled. As does the "interlocking volumes". I based the overall look on the Pan Am building, but who knows.

Anyone have an idea WHEN the actual renderings will come out?

[The Great Hizzy!]

I'm actually impressed by your committment "to know the truth", Mister X. LOL!

It's great to speculate, and yet without a real feel for what Pickard-Chilton (I believe I spelled that correctly) discussed with Hines--including what elements it wanted to emphasize, what features would be most prominent in terms of the building's functional points--it's difficult to really put your finger on it--the building's design, that is.

My gut, however, leads me to believe that it will share some design elements as the canceled building that would've gone up for AIM in Greenway Plaza (a lovely building, IMO, which looked similar to the tower that went up in Midtown Atlanta a couple of years ago). Then again, it's just speculation, because Hines may have different interests that would affect how certain facial treatments are handled or how the building is crowned or the type of materials that are used (that alone can dictate how a building is shaped or what have you).

Regardless, 0I'd like to think that there will be a preliminary design "released' in the next couple of months. Maybe mid-Fall at the latest.

If not, then by god this had better be one kick-butt design to have been shrouded in such secrecy for so long leading up to groundbreaking.

[dalparadise]

Thanx. I hope the real tower looks better than that too. And that someone who's seen the actual rendering can use my guesstimation renderings to give us a better idea of the real deal. The whole terrace thing 2/3rds the way up has me a bit baffled. As does the "interlocking volumes". I based the overall look on the Pan Am building, but who knows.

Anyone have an idea WHEN the actual renderings will come out?

They are nice sketches, but that really looks like a building suited for Ft. Worth, not Houston.

[pm91]

i hope it will look like one of pickard chilton usual designs like the aim and the atlanta one. i think it will add a new style in houston and will set off a new style boom in downtown. i havent really heard and if i have i forgot. but when exactly does hines 47 (800 main) breakground?