811 Main: Office Skyscraper At 811 Main St.

[musicman]

We need a fine mix of closer residential spaces, more retail, and specifically a WAY better public transportation system to get things going in downtown.

if the public transportation system needs to get better, why not try and improve the system we have currently? putting in one new line isn't going to make a difference to most, leaving most with the same impression (METRO is mediocre).

[KinkaidAlum]

if the public transportation system needs to get better, why not try and improve the system we have currently? putting in one new line isn't going to make a difference to most, leaving most with the same impression (METRO is mediocre).

You're kidding, right?

Yeah, how could connecting 4 major universities, one of the nation's most famous art collections, a major employment center, the area's largest church, several tranist dependent neighborhoods, and a transit center with Downtown, Midtown, Hermann Park, the Museum District, the med center, and Reliant Park create a better impression than tweaking some bus lines?

[Trae]

^^I honestly don't understand why people are so against rail. Who wouldn't want more lines in the inner city? From the way Houston is built, LRT should only be in the inner city, and areas Southwest around Sharpstown. Commuter rail should all come in from the suburbs. If we didn't have so many people against rail in Houston, we would have a system like Dallas.

Houston w/o the tunnel system, dreaming

Downtown would look packed. I wish the tunnels weren't there.

Edited September 16, 2007 by Trae

[musicman]

You're kidding, right?

Yeah, how could connecting 4 major universities, one of the nation's most famous art collections, a major employment center, the area's largest church, several tranist dependent neighborhoods, and a transit center with Downtown, Midtown, Hermann Park, the Museum District, the med center, and Reliant Park create a better impression than tweaking some bus lines?

WRT total congestion, its effect will be minimal.

Edited September 16, 2007 by musicman

[H-Town Man]

After reading the posts here I question whether street-level retail can really be successful in a downtown like this. It seems that there needs to be a minimum density of stores over several blocks to draw shoppers. One Kinkos can't sustain it. Besides, downtown already has vibrant pedestrian shopping area underground, and that will always be difficult for any street-level retailer to compete with. This isn't to say that street-oriented pedestrian-friendly shopping districts can't succeed in Houston. Rice Village has been at it for decades, and Houston Pavillions looks great. For Main Street however I think it is too late for that.

Subdude, Houston Pavilions is on Main Street. I think we can most definitely build a vibrant pedestrian district along there, provided we stop building parking garages. I've brought a lot of visitors here from other cities, and they were impressed. Look how far we've come on lower Main. Look how beautiful the new streetscaping is, how great some of our historic architecture is along there (if they could only uncover the original facade of the Carter skyscraper (on the right in the picture above)), how much potential there still is on the undeveloped lots.

And if that doesn't convince you, look at how much we would lose by just giving up. This is Houston's most historic street. This is where every person who grew up here before 1970 spent Saturday afternoon. Where every parade went down. If you want this city to have a soul, some place where people of all walks can cross paths, some place where one can feel a connection to the past, a place that is distinctly Houston and not just anywhere, it has to happen here.

This has potential!

Edited September 16, 2007 by H-Town Man

[Jax]

WRT total congestion, its effect will be minimal.

It's not only about reducing congestion. It's about slowing the increase in congestion in the future, and giving people more options to get around. Nobody is going to give up driving completely (not at this point), but being able to go a few places without your car is really liberating. It's also about giving Houston a better image. Trains just look better, sound better and smell better than twice as many busses on already congested streets.

you want this city to have a soul

I can't believe how many people have commented on that picture (and similar ones in the same part of town) and said they didn't know any part of Houston looked like that. Somebody even said that my photo makes Houston look like a "real city". Some people who live here have seriously only seen strip malls and big box stores and don't even know this part of town exists. A lot of people who comment on these downtown photos also say that they wish all of Houston looked like that. There is seriously demand out there for street level retail and a real urban environment. Every student I know who is visiting Houston from other countries and cities loves this part of downtown when I take them there, but they all say the same thing about wishing that there were more people around and more things to do besides bars and clubs.

There is definitely a lot of potential.

Edited September 16, 2007 by Jax

[musicman]

It's not only about reducing congestion. It's about slowing the increase in congestion in the future, and giving people more options to get around. Nobody is going to give up driving completely (not at this point), but being able to go a few places without your car is really liberating. It's also about giving Houston a better image. Trains just look better, sound better and smell better than twice as many busses on already congested streets.

500 million on image? i can sure think of better things 500 million will do.

i still think an assumption has been made where a large number of people are moving to the line. that's just not happening. some are moving yes, but not enough to justify a 500 million expenditure. now if it was designed with less traffic interaction, i could see benefit

Edited September 17, 2007 by musicman

[H-Town Man]

I can't believe how many people have commented on that picture (and similar ones in the same part of town) and said they didn't know any part of Houston looked like that. Somebody even said that my photo makes Houston look like a "real city". Some people who live here have seriously only seen strip malls and big box stores and don't even know this part of town exists. A lot of people who comment on these downtown photos also say that they wish all of Houston looked like that. There is seriously demand out there for street level retail and a real urban environment. Every student I know who is visiting Houston from other countries and cities loves this part of downtown when I take them there, but they all say the same thing about wishing that there were more people around and more things to do besides bars and clubs.

One thing that I think helped that picture was that you used telephoto to compress the distance and make the environment seem more vertical. It's a great picture though, as are most of your photos of Houston.

As far as light rail, I think it's useless to try to explain its benefit to people who don't already get it. There is a certain age one reaches beyond which it is very difficult for them to understand anything beyond the world that they grew up in and the things that were important in it. Once a person has settled into the view that all he wants out of his city is as big a home as possible in as quiet a neighborhood as possible with as few interactions as possible with people who aren't like him, you will be hard pressed to get him to spend even one dollar of his precious money on a rail system, no matter how much it could benefit the city.

[Jax]

500 million on image? i can sure think of better things 500 million will do.

Why are things so black and white to you? It's not about ONLY image, but image is a factor. It's a combination of convenience, efficiency, image, congestion, etc. etc. etc.

[musicman]

Why are things so black and white to you? It's not about ONLY image, but image is a factor. It's a combination of convenience, efficiency, image, congestion, etc. etc. etc.

a system providing efficient, convenient transportation is a good system whatever it may be.

what model car do you drive?

[flyingman]

The problem is people can't seem to think about things in the long run. Yeah, one little light rail isn't going to change the world over night, but we have to start somewhere don't you think? Plus I never mentioned anything about a measly light rail. We need a better transportation system period, no matter what the best solution is.

Opposition to such improvements astounds me and is very unsettling that my future and the children's future rely on people who have that kind of mentality. Wouldn't it have been fantastic as a teenager or young adult, to easily find your way to the downtown library, to the museums, parks, places to eat, places to hang out, and places to discover in your city? It's not rocket science. Look at the cities you can already do that in.

I get it... when auto sales go down and oil drama... I get it...

Edited September 17, 2007 by flyingman

[nate]

a system providing efficient, convenient transportation is a good system whatever it may be.

what model car do you drive?

Image combined with the federal subsidy is why light rail lines continue to be built. METRORail makes no sense otherwise. It is no more useful than buses at far greater cost.

[Jax]

Works better than busses for me.

[dalparadise]

This has potential!

Metro consistently demonstrates that it has no idea where it's going. That train has "Fannin South" on it, yet is clearly going North.

[nyc_tex]

Image combined with the federal subsidy is why light rail lines continue to be built. METRORail makes no sense otherwise. It is no more useful than buses at far greater cost.

Most freeways are built exclusively with federal and state funds.

I'm glad NYC or Chicago didn't have your perspective 100 years ago. The only problem with starting a mass train system in Houston is that it wasn't done 25 years ago. The demographic shift from the NE to the South and West is only going to continue along with continued increases of foreign migration into the area.

City planning is exactly that, planning for the future, more so than the present. With another 4-5 million in Houston metro in the next 50-100 years, there are only so many freeways that can be built. Proactive and perseverance.

Edited September 17, 2007 by nyc_tex

[musicman]

Most freeways are built exclusively with federal and state funds.

I'm glad NYC or Chicago didn't have your perspective 100 years ago.

100 yrs ago cars weren't a real transportation option for most. Edited September 17, 2007 by musicman

[Transit Nut]

Metro consistently demonstrates that it has no idea where it's going. That train has "Fannin South" on it, yet is clearly going North.

I believe that train is just about to go up the bridge to enter UH-Downtown station. Since it will not be picking up anymore passengers to go north, it has probably just switched its sign to reflect the direction it will be picking up passengers for--that is, south.

By the way, I think this thread has gone off-topic.

[Subdude]

Can we take this back to Main Place?

Thanks.

[flyingman]

The big cigarette lighter?

[sevfiv]

Can we take this back to Main Place?

Thanks.

sure

man, those buildings are close -

[nyc_tex]

100 yrs ago cars weren't a real transportation option for most.

You're absolutely right, but in Manhattan, a horse and buggy was no less efficient than a car is today.

Let us not forget that the streetcar system that was omnipresent in almost all cities in the early 20th century were successfully lobbied against by the oil/gas and motor companies to tear up and put in buses. It had much more to do with money than efficiency or practicality. Suburban sprawl was a product of the automobile, not the other way around.

[musicman]

You're absolutely right, but in Manhattan, a horse and buggy was no less efficient than a car is today.

i don't know any horses that go 70.....but back to MainPlace.

[H-Town Man]

i don't know any horses that go 70.....but back to MainPlace.

I think his point was that cars pretty much can't go 70 in today's traffic. I bet errands were as easy to run a hundred years ago as they are now.

And to make this MainPlace relevant, it is interesting to think that horses, cars, and light rail trains have all traveled in front of the block on which MainPlace will be built.

[PAC]

Here is a new rendering of the MainPlace building, taken from the Magnolia Hotel looking down Fannin.

[Pumapayam]

Here is a new rendering of the MainPlace building, taken from the Magnolia Hotel looking down Fannin.

Here is the embedded photo for those that are too lazy to click on it.

Thanks for the photo.

[Jax]

Wow - cool rendering! It even has reflections on it!

[KinkaidAlum]

That's really beautiful. I used to work in 806 Main right across the street. I remember what Main Street was like from 1989 to 1995 and I laugh at people who think it's a dump now.

Do you happen to know the height of the proposal? It appears to be around 620 feet or so if the scale is correct.

[moni]

That is a really cool rendering. I would sure like to see something showing how cool Houston will look by 2012. Super city, that's for sure.

[Subdude]

Great photo! I notice they photoshopped in some lights in the windows of the old Texaco building.

[lockmat]

so this is main looking south? correct?