811 Main: Office Skyscraper At 811 Main St.

[Jax]

If I'm not mistaken, this is the block that will be demolished?

Why are there always people hanging out on that corner? Is there a bus stop, or something? I always see people just standing around on this corner, but why?

[musicman]

Why are there always people hanging out on that corner? Is there a bus stop, or something? I always see people just standing around on this corner, but why?

from the pic it looks like a bus stop.

[Jax]

Yeah maybe that's it. Always more people standing around that corner than other ones. I didn't notice the sign until now.

[ricco67]

If I'm not mistaken, this is the block that will be demolished?

On the bottom:

And to the right:

And this is what I found on Windows Live Local, the block in the middle:

If so, though I prefer older buildings than new glass skyscrapers, I think this new office tower will be an improvement here.

..

Good lord, what did you do? rent a copter to get these shots?

I'm gone for a day and and there are a ton of posts on this.

As I mentioned in a previous post, the logistics for the construction are going to be a pain on this job, especially with the time frame they have put on themselves.

Deconstruction isn't much of an option with their schedule they put themselves in. I'm sure that if there was absestos in there, they would have taken it into consideration.

They might have the wrecking ball starting on the Rusk/Fannin corner and work their way in. I'm trying to wrap my head around how're they're going to do it with minimal traffic lane closures and intrusion upon Club Quarters...

which reminds me, their Valet is going to be a major pain. The current procedure is for them to park across the street in the lot, drive down Walker, to main, and then to the Rusk entrance.

Once Demo/construction starts, northbound traffic on main gets shut down. So that means they will have to go all the way to travis to circle around. Kinda' makes me feel bad for the valet guys.

[TheNiche]

FYI, the entire Stowers Building is for sale by CBRE; they weren't even able to sell one office condo. Hines had it under contract at one time but backed out. It is probably safe from the wrecking ball at this point in time.

[pm91]

by any chance can someone update emporis?

[ChannelTwoNews]

by any chance can someone update emporis?

It was updated yesterday.

[pm91]

then why isnt mainplace in front of one park place? and it still doesnt have a pic and neither does discovery green.

[ChannelTwoNews]

then why isnt mainplace in front of one park place? and it still doesnt have a pic and neither does discovery green.

I was the one who updated the page for MainPlace, and it takes a while (up to 2 days) sometimes for the changes to appear on the public version... so maybe later today the info should be updated everywhere.

I also added pages for 6 Houston Center and the new Duncan College at Rice in the process.

When it comes to renderings, I can't upload a scan from the paper at this point since there's probably a better version available which would be released soon enough.

Edited August 24, 2007 by ChannelTwoNews

[Guest Marty]

by any chance can someone update emporis?

For those new to this forum you may want to check this site out. Towrs

http://www.towrs.com/wiki/index.php/Towrs

List of projects link. http://www.towrs.com/wiki/index.php/New_Pr...ouston%2C_Texas

This site is owned by editor.

Edited August 24, 2007 by Marty

[sevfiv]

to Boris: yes, that is the block - everything is set to go except Stowers

here are some more pictures for reference:

retail between Super Stop and Montagu

Super Stop:

Beatty-West (and its proximity to Stowers)

[bachanon]

i'm all about new towers. yet, that looks like it could have been an interesting block. the street level will lose some character. guess it won't bother me so much when the cranes go up.

[Boris]

Thx Sevfiv. So, we're going to lose this one as well? Too bad, I liked the red fire escape?

[sevfiv]

i'm all about new towers. yet, that looks like it could have been an interesting block. the street level will lose some character. guess it won't bother me so much when the cranes go up.

it has a lot of history, from Stowers Furniture, to Beatty-West (James M. West) building, to the Aragon Ballroom - and the West Building is a city of houston historic landmark. I know that Hines has the expertise to have redevloped this into something neat.

Just not the vision, i guess.

Thx Sevfiv. So, we're going to lose this one as well? Too bad, I liked the red fire escape?

yes - that's the Montagu, nee Hotel Cotton

http://hotels.arch-ive.org/montagu/

Edited August 24, 2007 by sevfiv

[bkjones98]

it has a lot of history, from Stowers Furniture, to Beatty-West (James M. West) building, to the Aragon Ballroom - and the West Building is a city of houston historic landmark. I know that Hines has the expertise to have redevloped this into something neat. Just not the vision, i guess.yes - that's the Montagu, nee Hotel Cottonhttp://hotels.arch-ive.org/montagu/

I definitely want to witness this little gem go down. I wish it could have been converted into another hotel, but there are plenty other historic buildings to either side that need work too. I imagine that the old Texaco building and the one next door will soon have new life.Please keep us posted on when the dynamite will go off. I've always wanted to see an implosion. >

I definitely want to witness this little gem go down. I wish it could have been converted into another nice hotel (as opposed to a defacto brothel), but there are plenty other historic buildings to either side that need work too. I imagine that the old Texaco building and the one next door will soon have new life.Please keep us posted on when the dynamite will go off. I've always wanted to see an implosion. >

[jt16]

Yeah maybe that's it. Always more people standing around that corner than other ones. I didn't notice the sign until now.

There's a little corner store across the street that attracts a certain kind of "undesirable crowd". There's always a lot of panhandling going on that block.

Although the people in the picture posted look like honest people waiting for a bus.

I wonder how this building will impact the neighboring buildings.

[dbigtex56]

Please keep us posted on when the dynamite will go off. I've always wanted to see an implosion. >

Doubtful that these buildings will be imploded, due to their proximity to utilities, other buildings, tunnel system, etc.

[jmancuso]

i'd like to see that ratty corner store knocked down as well.

[EspersonBuildings]

They need to rebuild Rusk with concrete like McKinney & Lamar. The stretch between Main and Fannin is in horrible condition..........asphalt on top of asphalt on top of asphalt. It will only stand out even more with a shiny new tower facing it.

[ricco67]

The Repaving will probably only be done after construction is over. The abuse of the road that the construction would give it would simply prematurely age the road. Just a bit of patience as far as that goes.

[Subdude]

reluctantly...yes. MainPlace

It is kind of silli, but I assume the name will change when they line up a lead tenant.

Nice design though. Somehow it seems like the "garden" should be facing west however.

[HtownWxBoy]

reluctantly...yes. MainPlace

I don't think MainPlace is such a bad name... Philly's two tallest towers (before Comcast was built) are called Liberty Place (one and two Liberty Place)... everyone up there seems to like those names.

[Subdude]

I don't think MainPlace is such a bad name... Philly's two tallest towers (before Comcast was built) are called Liberty Place (one and two Liberty Place)... everyone up there seems to like those names.

No, "Main Place" isn't a bad name, but the trendoid "MainPlace," as if it were one word, is vaguely annoying. It's like the propensity developers have for (mis)spellings like "towne" and "centre".

[Guest Marty]

name='Subdude' date='Sunday, August 26th, 2007 @ 2:30am' post='194597

Nice design though. Somehow it seems like the "garden" should be facing west however.

That would make that level of the tower cooler in the afternoon.

Edited August 26, 2007 by Marty

[HtownWxBoy]

No, "Main Place" isn't a bad name, but the trendoid "MainPlace," as if it were one word, is vaguely annoying. It's like the propensity developers have for (mis)spellings like "towne" and "centre".

Yea, I can see that.

[T 2 THA C]

me also

[Jax]

I agree that there would be a better view if the garden was facing west. I think the view to the West is much more impressive. The east end of Houston isn't exactly beautiful (lots of parking lots, then a highway, and then lots of old warehouses). The view of the more impressive buildings downtown plus the bayou would be more interesting I think. I know the new park will be nice, but will it be that interesting from the 40th floor?

I wonder if this building will have a public sky lobby or observation deck? That would be cool!

[Double L]

^^^^

1. There will be a clearer view of the design features of the balcony when looking at the building from the east.

2. Over time, more things will be built there. You never know, in 2025 that balcony may be one of the best views in the city. Perhaps not the neighborhoods east of 59 but in the downtown area there will be lots of demand.

[NewMND]

This is just out of curiosity, but with maybe 4 new building proposals for downtown, does anyone know if there are any office tower proposals for Uptown? I have no idea what the vacany rate is for Uptown, it could be ridiculously high for all I know, it just seems there hasn't been a new office building built in Uptown in forever. I rather see new towers going up in downtown, but since we have Uptown, might as well build them there also. I guess I just want to see the skylines of both downtown and uptown grow and change. Oh well, downtown gets the office towers and uptown gets the condo towers.

[Trae]

Uptown is getting more on the residential side. I think BLVD Place includes an office tower (or two) though.

Edited August 26, 2007 by Trae

[ToolMan]

Why are there always people hanging out on that corner? Is there a bus stop, or something? I always see people just standing around on this corner, but why?

Those are mainly homeless people hanging around the convenient store (or crack shack as I call it). They now have everything boarded up and the store on the corner is out of inventory, which is why the block is so much cleaner now.

Has anyone notice people aren

[KinkaidAlum]

Those are mainly homeless people hanging around the convenient store (or crack shack as I call it). They now have everything boarded up and the store on the corner is out of inventory, which is why the block is so much cleaner now.

Has anyone notice people aren

[sevfiv]

it has cleared out quite a bit - the Super Stop had a "almost everything's a dollar sale" the other day...

the ceiling in there is neat looking - i wonder if it is the original Liggett's Drug Store ceiling?

[Jax]

I noticed on the weekend they were boarding up the last remaining sketchy convenience store on that block.

[sevfiv]

all the permits have been issued - will be interesting to see how the demolitions are carried out

[H-Town Man]

It seems to me that this tower is a win, win situationn regardless of whether it has retail or not. What I mean, is that this tower will house a few thousand workers, which in turn will inject money into the surrounding Main street area. Main already has a number of boarded up retail spaces, so this could help revitalize those locations... At least during the work week.

I disagree. Main Street does not need a soulless glass tower. 46 stories of glass with a diminutive entrance at the bottom does not encourage pedestrian life. If anything, the way the lobby entrance is recessed from the facade discourages

streetlife. Even if you throw in a few fast food eateries, I don't think it's much help unless the facade is somehow changed.

Someone tell me how this design would be any different if it were going on the West Loop feeder road rather than Main St. It looks like they put more thought into the 43rd floor than the first floor. This is our signature boulevard... time to start expecting better.

[Houston19514]

I disagree. Main Street does not need a soulless glass tower. 46 stories of glass with a diminutive entrance at the bottom does not encourage pedestrian life. If anything, the way the lobby entrance is recessed from the facade discourages

streetlife. Even if you throw in a few fast food eateries, I don't think it's much help unless the facade is somehow changed.

Someone tell me how this design would be any different if it were going on the West Loop feeder road rather than Main St. It looks like they put more thought into the 43rd floor than the first floor. This is our signature boulevard... time to start expecting better.

Where have you seen a rendering showing the lobby entrances on Main Street recessed from the facade? Are you sure you aren't looking at the renderings showing the Rusk Street facade? Not that a recessed entrance would in any way destri ir even discourage pedestrian life.)

And FWIW, a 46 story office building with street level retail will clearly encourage pedestrian life. First, we obviously have no idea what the retail tenants might be, but even if they are just fast food, fast food customers are pedestrians too. And to the extent they are restaurants of any type, they may very well have sidewalk dining areas. What exactly is it that you want in a building?

[H-Town Man]

Where have you seen a rendering showing the lobby entrances on Main Street recessed from the facade? Are you sure you aren't looking at the renderings showing the Rusk Street facade? Not that a recessed entrance would in any way destri ir even discourage pedestrian life.)

And FWIW, a 46 story office building with street level retail will clearly encourage pedestrian life. First, we obviously have no idea what the retail tenants might be, but even if they are just fast food, fast food customers are pedestrians too. And to the extent they are restaurants of any type, they may very well have sidewalk dining areas. What exactly is it that you want in a building?

You make a good point which I neglected to mention - that the entrance is actually on Rusk, with only the side of the building and parking garage on Main. I guess Main wasn't important enough for the primary entrance.

When I say "encourage pedestrian life," I mean encourage it architecturally. Of course having a big building there with some shops will add some pedestrian traffic to Main Street, but the architecture does little to make an interesting street-level environment. The same could be said of Houston Center and the Park Shops... sure they might add some incidental pedestrian traffic, but the buildings weren't really designed to encourage it.

I'll ask again... how would the design of this building be any different if it were on the West Loop feeder road?

[H-Town Man]

Here is an example of using architecture to enliven the street environment. Notice how the first four floors are not merely a continuation of the rest of the facade, but that the architect considered the streetscape (in addition to the skyline) in his design.

[GovernorAggie]

While I agree that it would be better with some street treatments, the tower could easily be retrofitted with retail space and openings later. In fact, I'd say even moreso BECAUSE the entrance is on Rusk. For instance, 1000 Main wastes a lot of space on the entrance on Main.

[Jax]

I contacted the developer and there IS going to be as much street retail as they can fit in this place. If you look back a few threads, I posted the email the developer sent me. I don't know how the streetscaping is going to be, but retail is a sure thing. I think it helps with their LEED certification, and they are shooting for higher than silver is possible.

[nate]

I'll ask again... how would the design of this building be any different if it were on the West Loop feeder road?

It would be setback at least 20 feet, have a small surface parking lot and a landscape barrier.

What more do you want of MainPlace? Plans call for street level retail and a lobby with direct access to the street.

Please state specifically how they could enliven the street environment. Then ask if your recommendations are commercially viable.

[Highway6]

While I agree that it would be better with some street treatments, the tower could easily be retrofitted with retail space and openings later. In fact, I'd say even moreso BECAUSE the entrance is on Rusk. For instance, 1000 Main wastes a lot of space on the entrance on Main.

One doesnt retrofit multi-story, entire footprint lobby spaces with retail.

You can't just throw up several storefront systems and some interior partitions.

When incorporating retail into a new office tower... the kind of retail you want, restaurants, delis, stuff to increase streetlife..... ya got to think about service entrances for the retail, possible service alley, public vs private entrances, secure building lobby/ elevator banks.. etc.

What you call wasted space on 1000 Main is exactly what we will have here... an office tower's grand lobby space. If they wanted streetlevel retail, it would have been incorporated into the design a long time ago.

At least with 1000 Main, they included two very visible access points to the basement retail/tunnels.

I agree with H-Town man in that this won't do much to add to the quality of pedstrian life though it will add more pedestrians.

I disagree with several of you though in that i don't really care if this one has retail.. I'm happy from the skyline perspective.

The Pavillions has some of us jaded to think all new office towers should be forced to have the Hello Deli and a starbucks jammed at the bottom. Look at BoA, Penzoil, Chase.. look at the 1000 Main, Calpine, Enron... none have any significant retail and the first three are probably considered the architectural gems of downtown. Pavillions is the exception.. but we also new from the get go that it would have a huge retail component.

Trust me, for the amount of streetlevel retail y'all want in a new project.... you will know when that project is announced if it's going to happen.

Speculating that maybe an office tower will throw in significant levels of retail later by cramming it into their beautifully designed lobby spaces, just because ya think that lobby space is wasteful.. is pointless.

Edited September 11, 2007 by Highway6

[Highway6]

What more do you want of MainPlace? Plans call for street level retail and a lobby with direct access to the street.

Every downtown building has a lobby with direct access to the street. This is not an indication of promoting a more viable, pedestrian friendly atmosphere.

Please state specifically how they could enliven the street environment. Then ask if your recommendations are commercially viable.

They could forego the grand lobby approach to modern hi-rise office towers and instead incorporate 2-3 levels of Pavillionsesque level of design and retail.

That being said.. they did not go this approach so there is nothing that can be added to the current design of this building that will significantly increase the pedestrian experience.

They included one level of retail at the base of the garage on one side of the block, and they maybe have a few hundred square feet at the opposite corner of the block for a coffee shop or a Fedex. Bravo.

What H-Town Man is saying is they could have done so much more, and chose not to.

Edited September 11, 2007 by Highway6

[Jax]

There will be retail space along Main Street…we fully intend to address the Main Street component of this project with landscaping, retail frontage, etc. While we don’t have anything of the scale of the Pavilions, we do have as much as is possible given the layout of our 3/4 block site.

From what I can tell, retail is going along the entire length of main, parking entrance on Walker (maybe retail), and grand lobby on Rusk...is that right Seems like a decent compromise to me. Of course it could always be better but this is better than most of the office buildings in Houston as far as enhancing the street life.

Edited September 11, 2007 by Jax

[Highway6]

From what I can tell, retail is going along the entire length of main, parking entrance on Walker (maybe retail), and grand lobby on Rusk...is that right Seems like a decent compromise to me. Of course it could always be better but this is better than most of the office buildings in Houston as far as enhancing the street life.

Jax, i could be completely wrong.. but this is how i read the pictures we have seen.

We're looking at 1/2 to 2/3 of Main will be retail. This is only the part at the garage.

Just becasue the entrance to the tower lobby space is on Rusk does not mean the tower lobby space facing Main is being used as retail instead of lobby.

The bottom picture below shows the corner of Main at Rusk...and it shows the interior lobby space turning the corner along Main.

The top picture, the siteplan from the Chronicle suggests the tower takes up half the block and that the perspective of the middle picture might be deceiving in the ratio of garage to tower along Main.

If the planned retail along 50-60% of Main ends up being multilevel, I think we should consider ourselves lucky.

Edited September 11, 2007 by Highway6

[GovernorAggie]

One doesnt retrofit multi-story, entire footprint lobby spaces with retail.

You can't just throw up several storefront systems and some interior partitions.

When incorporating retail into a new office tower... the kind of retail you want, restaurants, delis, stuff to increase streetlife..... ya got to think about service entrances for the retail, possible service alley, public vs private entrances, secure building lobby/ elevator banks.. etc.

The only reason that I suggested that is because I have seen this exact thing happen in another city--replacing a glass wall, no less. So it's not impossible.

[Jax]

Hmm.. interesting. You may be right. Did the Chron article label the first image, or was that you?

[Highway6]

Hmm.. interesting. You may be right. Did the Chron article label the first image, or was that you?

Those are my red and green labels.

[Highway6]

The only reason that I suggested that is because I have seen this exact thing happen in another city--replacing a glass wall, no less. So it's not impossible.

I'm not saying it's impossible.

I'm saying to get the quality and quantity of designed retail and public space necessary to increase the pedestrian quality of life takes planning.. and is not something thrown in after a building has been designed.

Cutting an entrance and adding a few hundred square feet of Kinkos doesnt cut it.